IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2011-03-30

pitillogood morning00:52
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Romsterlennart, i've recompiled mysystem with gcc 4.6.0 and -O2 works with gtk+ just fine. Just as i suspected it's a bug in gcc
lennartRomster: ah, i see. thx for checking it out05:12
Romsterit was driving me crazy too.05:13
Romsterand thought it was only me that had this bug. when you said about it a few days ago, it got me thinking i was on the wrong track with gdk-pixbuf.05:13
lennartis your rendering in ff4 by any chance extremly CPU intensive for the X process?05:14
Romsteri haven't bumped to fx4 yet05:14
Romsteri'll check that when i do though.05:14
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enteRomster: new bftpd is out, but nothing serious05:17
teK_the new cairo update/firefox update fixed the blinking animated-GIF issue for me yay!05:18
entestill on ff 3.x05:18
enteI upgraded my sister's system though, and she's using ff4 now, and it looks good :P05:19
teK_FF 4 starts up faster I think05:19
teK_It feels snappier in general05:19
entewell, I switched to opera because FF feels so slow05:19
teK_+ I can use HTML5 on youtube which reduces CPU usage (vs. flash) dramatically05:19
entemaybe ff4 would fix it, but I'm on debian05:19
teK_"but I'm on Debian" good one :>05:19
Romsterente, midori is quite snappy too.05:20
Romsterexcept compiling it.05:20
teK_I dont want to be an opinion nazi "but I'm on Debian"05:20
Romsterente, yeah i'll bump that.05:20
Romsterbusy atm redoing ports on my pc.05:20
enteno hurry ;)05:21
mike_k_bumping things on debian isn't that easy? still?05:21
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enteI'm too dumb to package debian stuff, I guess05:21
entethe only thing I've ever done is metapackages05:21
Romsterwhy are you on debian anyways?05:22
enteI was too lazy to configure everything again05:22
Romsterwhen your in a crux channel.05:22
enteyeah, I still have crux on my desktop :P05:22
Romsteror you just sit in here for the hospitality05:22
enteI broke my harddisk in the netbook and decided to go distrohopping05:22
enteconsidering nuking debian away though05:23
Romsternext time try frugalware it's not so bad,05:23
Romsterwould suit the netbook.05:23
entethanks :)05:23
entefirst, I installed slackware, then opensuse, then debian05:23
Romsterplus if anything is borked let me know i can pass it on to devs.05:24
Romstergot a friend using frugalware.05:24
entedebian is quite ok, actually, but I don't really like the package manager05:24
entegot a friend who's a fw dev05:24
Romsteryeah the packages are not so fun.05:24
Romsterente, yes.05:24
teK_OLD box: prt-get listinst > packages.txt ; zcat /proc/config.gz > kernel.txt   NEW BOX: prt-get depinst `cat packages.txt` ; cat ~/kernel.txt > .config ; make05:24
frinnsti use debian on my netbook these days05:24
teK_configure everything???05:24
frinnstcompiling on an atom sucks :)05:24
Romsterryuo you might know him he used to use crux too.05:25
teK_maybe you could reuse /etc and /home.05:25
enteRomster: I heard they are adapting pkgmk05:25
Romsteri doubt it they use a modified version of um what was it again..05:26
Romsterargh i can't remember now.05:26
entethe arch thing05:26
Romsterah yes there own branch of pacman05:26
Romsterdude that pkgxx looks interesting.05:27
Romsterbet it can't do ebuilds though.05:27
teK_the are BORG. They try to unify installation-scripts, too05:27
teK_or even the Crux’s pkgutils05:28
Romsterand it's missing deb?05:28
Romsterwell i guess dpkg is the deb stuff.05:28
Romsterbet they just woken up that Pkgfiles are easy to work with.05:29
ente[12:27] < teK_> the are BORG. They try to unify installation-scripts, too05:29
entejust like that arch-guy is unifying setup :P05:29
entedamn communists!05:29
Romsteri'm no better running nearly everything from crux haxored to my tastes.05:30
Romsterthough i still contribute.05:30
enteyou always end up forking if you use anything someone else wrote :)05:33
Romsteryeah seems to be the case.05:38
entecrux is a solid base for that, though05:39
Romsterso easy to do.05:41
ente"One is even called STD Knoppix or something like that. My wife wouldn't let me try out that one."05:44
frinnstcoffee EVERYWHERE05:44
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frinnst made me feel better05:49
teK_ente: I meant ARCH by BORG05:55
teK_+ cd ffmpeg-0.505:58
teK_+ ./configure --prefix=/usr --mandir=/usr/man --enable-gpl --enable-libfaac --enable-libfaad --enable-libfaadbin --enable-libmp3lame --enable-libtheora --enable-libvorbis --enable-libx264 --enable-libxvid --enable-shared --enable-pthreads --enable-postproc --enable-swscale --enable-x11grab --enable-libamr-nb --enable-libamr-wb --enable-nonfree --disable-debug --disable-static05:58
teK_ERROR: libx264 not found05:58
teK_% sudo prt-get listinst| grep 264                                                                                                                                                                                             :(05:58
teK_my fault?05:58
Romsterprt-get deptree ffmpeg-0.505:58
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Romstersee if x264 or anything else is missing.05:59
Romstererr prt-get deptree ffmpeg05:59
teK_% sudo prt-get deptree ffmpeg-0.5 | egrep -v '^\[i\]'05:59
teK_-- dependencies ([i] = installed, '-->' = seen before)05:59
teK_I'm installing ffmpeg-0.505:59
Romsteri was thinking of removing that one soon.06:00
Romsteri only kept it about the amr stuff.06:00
teK_doing depinst ffmpeg right now06:01
Romsteri may have to review that one see it ffmpeg-0.5 is needed still.06:03
teK_ffmpeg built fine06:06
teK_contrary to stupid mplayer06:08
Romsteri try to make sure things just work. but i must admit i need to review ports i maintain again.06:09
teK_I  have to maintain mplayer so don't worry ;>06:09
teK_./cpudetect.h:29:31: fatal error: libavutil/x86_cpu.h: No such file or directory06:10
teK_I'm unable to built it from SVN06:10
teK_that's the case for a month at least06:11
Romsterah your trying ffmpeg for that header.06:11
teK_mplayer is shipped with a ffmpeg directoy..06:11
Romsteri generally find ffmpeg x264 and mplayer need to be around the same date of checkout to work.06:11
Romsterdon't tell me they forked ffmpeg too.06:12
Romsterin there tree.06:12
teK_I copied the header file from teh internetz06:12
teK_./fmt-conversion.h:24:33: fatal error: libavutil/samplefmt.h: No such file or directory06:12
teK_ist it THAT hard to call make distclean before trying/checking in a build?06:13
Romsterhave you looked at mplayer ebuild for clues?06:14
Romsteroften i find they have patches for demented stuff.06:14
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Romsterthere svn may be broken too you cold try to go back a few revisions. and retest.06:16
Romsteri've had some revisions broken on various projects.06:16
teK_I did several checkouts over time06:16
RomsterteK_, i'll give it a go compiling.06:21
teK_I copied about 5-8 header files now finally receiving a semantic error.. I won't fix that06:24
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entelook what slackware does? :)06:31
entethere are enough distros to steal from.. ;)06:31
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teK_The questions'd be interesting to know06:42
tilman"recruiter who buffed my resume without my knowledge"06:50
enteblog seems weird06:55
enteas root?06:55
entetags: archlinux06:55
enteoh, nevermind :P06:55
teK_I saw that one, too :P06:55
entethis isn't normal, but on arch it is ;)06:55
enteand in general, useless use of perl06:58
entebut whatever06:59
enteI should stop ranting06:59
entesorry :x06:59
laenente: you're always right06:59
entelaen: that's so wrong :)06:59
laenI know.06:59
Romstermplayer takes forever to compile not even saturating my 4 cores.07:00
teK_Romster: what did you do to get it compiling07:00
enteRomster: checking if build environment is sane... sleep(256);07:00
entethat's 64 seconds per core :D07:01
entehah, multithreaded sleep, that's brilliant07:01
Romsterheh i used my file that i made ages ago plonked the file in my safebuild (chroot) of crux and moded mplayer to use the new archive and prt-get depinst mplayer07:01
teK_so nothing source related with a fresh checkout, right?07:03 fetches the svn tree and archives it.07:03
Romstererr generate-mplayer.sh07:03
Romster=======> Building '/usr/ports/packages/mplayer#export-2011-03-30-1.pkg.tar.gz' succeeded07:03
Romsteri rock :D07:03
Evil_Bob_ente: lol that random wallpaper script is ugly :D07:04
teK_No FFmpeg checkout, press enter to download one with git or CTRL+C to abort07:05
Romstertalking about the one on freshmeat?07:05
teK_nope svn checkout07:05
teK_svn checkout svn:// mplayer07:06
teK_okay my directory seems to be b0rked or the checkout or whatever07:06
teK_screw SVN07:06
RomsterteK_, use that script in that paste it'll work.07:06
teK_using a clean directory worked forr me, too07:06
Romsteri was referring to that perl background randomize about freshmeat?07:07
Romster ah probably not this one is in python was gonna look at this.07:07
RomsterteK_, why the heck did you not try a clean checkout.... shame on you.07:08
teK_I'm used to git. things use to work with git :P07:08
teK_btw.. make -j5  276.76s user 29.03s system 265% cpu 1:55.33 total07:08
teK_wrt saturating 4 cores07:08
RomsterMAKEFLAGS='V=1 -j 4'07:09
enteEvil_Bob_: I wrote something similar in sh once07:09
enteactually, with GNU userland, it's enough to display -window root `find ~/wallpaper | sort -r | head -1` or something like that07:10
enteeven if there's a little overhead by sorting them all random07:11
entebut wait, changing them every *10 seconds* ?!07:11
enteseizure alert07:11
Romster=======> Building '/usr/ports/packages/mplayer#export-2011-03-30-1.pkg.tar.gz' succeeded. real0m28.200suser0m40.039ssys0m7.630s07:11
Zabathere's also mplayer2 these days07:12
Romsterwhat the hell make is not respecting my export MAKEFLAGS='V=1 -j 4'07:13
Romsterin pkgmk.conf07:13
Romsterso i was compiling with -j1 before :(07:13
enteif ($counts == scalar @files) {07:13
ente        print "fuck you";07:13
ente        }07:13
ente        if ( $counts == scalar @files ) {07:13
ente          exit();07:13
ente          }07:13
* ente adds bsdpunk to his list of stuff considered harmful07:14
enteperl for the sake of perl :P07:15
entesorry, I'll stfu07:16
Romsterprofanity doesn't belong in source code IMO.07:19
teK_yeah, one should use $PROFANITY instead07:19
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Romsterffmpeg-0,5 is indeed broken with newer x264. since no one else has reported this i think it's safe to say it can be removed from contrib.07:22
Romsterif someone really wants it they can get it out of contrib.git07:22
lainRomster, is there a way to tell to the make what opts to use?07:28
frinnstvlc uses ffmpeg07:28
frinnstlain: MAKEFLAGS=07:29
laindoes it work?07:29
frinnsti have export MAKEFLAGS="-j 5" in my pkgmk.conf07:30
lainok, thanks, will try07:30
enteRomster: remove what from contrib?07:30
frinnstRomster: wtf? an aussie objecting to profanity?07:31
Romsterthat snapshot was there for amrnb and amrwb. later ffmpeg (which is staying) uses opencore-amr07:34
Romsterfrinnst, in source code yes but not in irc.07:36
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frinnstawesome laugh08:01
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ThePubsudoing su seems wrong on so many levels.08:23
teK_I did that about 77 times which accounted for 0,04% of all the commands in my history file08:29
teK_err no08:30
teK_11 times making 0,006%08:31
Romsterthat made me laugh good lord...08:32
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laenThePub: isn't that why they invented sudo -i?09:10
entesudo -s?09:11
entesudo -su ;)09:11
jaegerman, controlling fedora in a VM is so freaking hard09:11
jaegerdoesn't respond well at all to the mouse09:11
jaegerhope guest additions fixes that09:12
enteis fedora any good?09:12
teK_Linus uses it!!109:12
enteso does poettering09:12
laenLinus uses KDE as well.09:12
laenKDE, with MicroEmacs.  ..wut.09:13
teK_e.. whut?!09:13
* teK_ is installing some BSD flavour09:13
frinnstvi vi vi - the editor of the beast09:13
laenWell, the combination of KDE and MicroEmacs is just sick.09:13
entefrinnst: vi is e *vi* l :P09:13
* frinnst uses vi :)09:14
* ente uses vim09:14
thrice`I have never installed a bsd before :(09:14
laenVim indeed, but thinking about Levee.09:14
entewasn't it la vie? :P09:14
laenLevi? Mmm hang on.09:14
teK_no ente what you mean is sellerie09:15
laenAh no, it's Levee, like levis, with ee instead of is.09:15
laenWhich is why i'm not an Elvis fan either.09:15
jaegerfedora isn't bad, in my opinion, but it's not any better than others... I only use it because one of our users loves it here09:15
jaegerwhich is why it's in a VM and not installed on the HD09:15
teK_in the end you won't know about runlevels and signals just like bsdpunk :>09:17
teK_(i.e. you're lacking the basics)09:18
frinnstliek lynx09:18
laenVim vs Levee in size.. 2.2M vs 81K.09:19
jaegeroh man09:21
jaegersomeone wants to bring in an XP tablet with a celeron ULV 383 in it and run a linux VM with an X11-intensive app on it09:21
jaegerthat won't end well09:21
frinnsthave fun09:22
thrice`noo, not the basics09:22
entethe BASICs?09:23
ente10 GOTO 1009:23
jaegerI'm gonna suggest he use one of our macbook pros instead09:25
jaegerit'll run the software natively AND be way faster09:25
jaeger <-- that's the processor :D09:28
jaeger32-bit XP probably runs fine on it09:29
frinnstthats probably what it shipped with09:29
jaegerit is09:29
Evil_Bob_lol "Levee can only edit files up to 32670 characters long" is that still true? :o09:29
Evil_Bob_nvm apparently so according to its lv.doc file :o09:31
jaegerheh, nice09:32
jaegerboy, bsdpunk sure likes some perl09:34
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ThePubalmost but not quite tastes of Debian.  unfortunately too funky for me09:46
entejaeger: "some"09:51
enteThePub: why not go for the real GNU operating system?09:51
frinnstapparently, support for VT switching is coming along09:52
entenot debian/hurd09:52
enteI'm still talking about the real deal09:52
entekernel /hurd init=/emacs09:53
entewhat else? :P09:53
jaegerah, good, guest additions did solve the mouse issue09:55
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* ente stops building this crap11:47
frinnstgoing well?11:48
enteI guess ff4 is a no-go on debian :P11:48
enteii  libcairo2                            1.8.10-6                       The Cairo 2D vector graphics library11:49
thrice`ff can use internal cairo11:49
frinnstwhat are you trying to do?11:49
enteI need another distro11:49
frinnstyeah. firefox ships with pretty much all external libraries11:49
entebuilding a ff4 package11:49
frinnstsqlite, cairo etc11:49
entewell, screw that11:49
thrice`I thought they had ff4 in sid ?11:50
entenot in wheezy11:50
entebundling all libs is stupid as well11:50
entethe tarball isn't 65MB for no reason :/11:50
frinnstthats the firefox-way!11:51
frinnstsame with chromium11:51
enteso, the browser way?11:51
frinnsti gave up on that yesterday11:51
enteI gave up on browsers earlier11:51
frinnstthe tarball for chromium is over 100mb11:51
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lainand it requires a lot of memory for linking11:57
laina had 1G ram + 512Swap and it wasn't enough for ld:-(11:58
tilmanwell, browsers are the new desktop environments (or something)11:58
tilmanso it's only fair for them to be bloated as fsck11:58
frinnstFrequently Asked Questions12:00
frinnstYou said this is a lean, lightweight browser, but it's 8MB! I laugh at your silly lies!12:00
frinnstTake it easy, sport. Phoenix has many files that override those in Mozilla, but it also has a new set of files. These files render a ton of files in Mozilla unnecessary, but we haven't yet stopped packaging the old files. It also still contains the modern theme and all the composer UI. In short, we haven't done any work yet to minimize the size, but we expect to be able to hit 6MB with a little work.12:00
tilmanthat was _before_ decided that firefox be their main product instead of the app suite12:01
tilman(i think)12:01
frinnstyeah, but they gave up on the suite pretty quick after phoenix/firebird/firefox got released12:01
ente[18:58] <@tilman> well, browsers are the new desktop environments (or something)12:03
entethe new emacs12:03
ente(and thus an operating system, since we're all moving to the cloud ;)12:03
entethe web is an abnormally redundant GUI toolkit, not a way to convey information anymore12:03
enteI really hate it12:04
entestacking a GUI toolkit on top of a GUI toolkit... :(12:04
enteyo dawg12:04
entewhoa, 6MB12:05
* ente rolls back to ff 0.1 :P12:05
frinnstwow, they kept going with the suite to 200612:05
jaegerAnyone using postgresql 9's streaming replication in enterprise?12:11
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tilmanente: don't stop at 'yo dawg'12:22
tilmansay "i put a GUI toolkit in your GUI toolkit so you can ...", too12:22
entewhy? :)12:22
RyoSfor keeping it real of course12:23
thrice`yep12:23 you can like people on facebook while you move your windows around on your gnome 312:23
* jaeger is about ready to kick pgpool-ii and postgresql 8.x out the door12:27
entewell, gnome 3 has broadway12:30
entewhich enables you to put your desktop in a browser in a desktop in a browser in a desktop in a browser :P12:30
entexzibit would be proud12:30
joacimi heard he think those jokes are passe12:31
joacimthats the one :D12:33
entehe seems pretty reasonablre12:36
entecompared to 50cent12:37
thrice`    not so reasonable12:38
entesorry dawg12:40
entedid anyone test gnome3?12:40
jaegerNot I12:40
thrice`not yet, no12:40
enteah, there's a preview live cd12:41
enteand it seems suse got it too12:41
thrice`that livecd is built on suse, of course they did ;)12:41
thrice`it does look kinda shiny though12:43
jaegerI didn't realize it was so close to release12:43
entewell, I usually install xfce at other people's computers12:43
jaegernext wednesday I guess12:43
jaegerI wonder if it's any easier to build, dependency-wise12:43
entebut it doesn't hurt to try the alternatives once in a while12:43
enteyeah, I heard 2 was a huge mess with that regard12:43
jaegerI haven't been able to get a 100% successful gnome 2 build going in a long time12:43
jaegersome part is always broken12:44
enteit's interesting to see that kde3 is still alive12:44
enteso maybe the same thing will happen to gnome :D12:44
thrice`for which definitions of alive? :p12:44
entesome people still use it :P12:44
entekde 40 rsync alan+crux at mizrahi dot com dot ve
entethis seems a little outdated though :)12:45
entethrice`: <- in case you didn't notice12:45
thrice`we have kde4 ports too :)12:45
enteI've seen it :P12:45
enteI was referring to KDE3 in particular :P12:46
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jaegerIf the gnome 3 source isn't a huge nightmare to build I'll try to revive the decaying gnome repo when it releases12:49
treachI heard they realized building gnome was a confusing nightmare, so they just made gnome 3 a nightmare full stop. :P12:50
thrice`ente, yeah, I have heard of that one, but it doesn't seem so active :>12:50
* treach takes cover12:50
entethrice`: kde3 is feature complete and perfect :P12:51
entethrice`: no idea, really :D12:51
thrice`kde3 is fugly12:51
enteas if KDE4 is any better :P12:53
enteKDE2 was the fugly one12:53
treachyou think that only because you never used 1.x :>12:54
* ente slaps thrice` a little with
enteI've used neither 2 nor 312:54
enteboth equally ugly imo :)12:54
ente <- heh, I bet this was a suse system12:55
treachit is what you make it. *shrug*12:55
entewell, it looked better than win 9x :P12:55
entethrice`: <- the community might have moved on, but the svn doesn't look dead12:56
jaegertreach: that wouldn't surprise me much :)12:56
jaegeris the problem fundamentally that QT is ugly or can QT look really nice?12:57
enteI never was actually bored enough to check that, sorry ;)12:58
treachI've never really seen the problem with qt to begin with, but I think you can make it look pretty enough.12:58
treachwhat bothers me is that kwin is so darned slow..12:59
jaegerWhat I always hated about KDE was the widgets12:59
jaegerbut I haven't used 3.5 or 4 at all12:59
enteneither did I12:59
enteI used some early 3.0 back on suse12:59
treachor rather, I guess it's not, only uses much newer and less tested/optimized paths than ordinary wms..12:59
jaegerI just assumed it was QT's fault more than KDE's12:59
entesuse 9 or so12:59
enteI think suse 9 was my first linux13:00
enteif it qualifies as such ;)13:00
treach4.6 is quite nice IMO, certainly beats windows handily.13:00
* treach is off the kde train ftm, back to good old fvwm :p13:02
entejaeger: someone who tried gnome 3 says it's easy to compile13:02
jaegerthat would be nice13:04
entebut they use their own buildsystem now13:04
enteso you first have to compile that13:04
thrice`to me, while gnome3 looks crazy, gnome2 looked like it was showing its age ;)13:05
jaegergnome2 looked a lot like it was trying to be XP for a while13:08
jaegerente: yeah, love jhbuild :)13:08
treachgnome is headless, introvert, agressive and lacks any means to make rapid progress. The future will be interesting. :>13:08
jaegerI have a couple VMs around just for building gnome, sadly13:08
jaegerente: there's also if you want to build it13:15
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entewhy isn't lxde in the desktop-environment section in the portdb? :)14:52
thrice`it's not worthy!!14:53
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Rotwangsay I've got two graphic cards15:09
Rotwangcan I make xorg to work on both at the same time?15:09
Rotwangso it works like two displays15:09
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frinnstRotwang: should work16:37
Rotwangfrinnst: somehow it doesn't16:43
Rotwanganyway, I have new toy to play with16:43
RotwangI have two 40 GB ide hds16:43
Rotwangand I'm going to put them into raid 016:43
Rotwangnever did raid before so it should be fun16:44
frinnstive never run raid either16:44
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slashbeastRotwang: if you go with software raid with metadata 0.90 you does not need even initramfs, kernel will get up array (as long as FSTYPE is raid autodetect)16:58
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ThePub I have a problem with Crux.  When I type "cmd.exe" there is no dos window!17:40
enteclearly, you're missing something17:41
ThePubalthough, I do have an issue which seems to be unique (at least for me with Linux) to Crux.  Compiling libixp and wmii ( from mercurial pulls gets me a working window manager with no keyboard input.17:44
ThePubthe keyboard driver works, since starting a bare xterm or starting xterm with the wm results in a working client, it's just the wm alone which doesn't seem to get the events.17:44
entesure it's wmii?17:44
entemaybe wmii grabs some keys it's not supposed to?17:45
enteno idea thoug17:45
ThePubhas me stumped.  I've never seen this behaviour on any systems other than Crux.  Last time I installed Crux it ended up being the reason Arch replaced it :)17:45
ThePubactually, I can get similiar behaviour out of Arch if I start wmii using a "su -l -c 'xinit' lggin" from inittab.  wmii will startup with no keyboard input to the wm.  started from a regular session it works fine though.  that one is at least easily solved by just logging in first and then starting it.17:48
ThePubI wouldn't know where to begin to 'debug' it.  If it's just a missing system or what.  Although that doesn't make much sense since it's straight x11 class.. if X is working it should work too, so my other thought is it must be libixp not properly writting to the 9p filesystem, but wouldn't know where to begin to know if that's true or how to fix it.  just strange it doesn't work at all is my thought :)17:50
frinnstno log or anything?17:55
ThePubxorg is no help, no17:56
frinnst*reading backlog*17:56
thrice`installing fluxbox = working keyboard, too ?17:56
ThePubI didn't try everyone, last time, think I settled on one of the boxes at the time.  whichever one has the statusbar and tabbing rules.18:00
ThePubit's been awhile.  didn't really want to go through and beat the same dead horse this time around.18:00
thrice`well, I guess if you are certain it is specific to wmii18:01
ThePubI would assume it's something about wmii, personally.  If there was some general issue you'd all know about it firsthand I would think.  :)18:01
thrice`and tried swapping between evdev and keyboard driver in xorg ?18:02
ThePubwell, I've only ever used an ev driver since forever.18:03
ThePubwhich works everywhere else.  wouldn't understand why the distribution would change that requirement.  What is different about Crux that would make that a logical change?18:04
thrice`it's not - evdev is generally used18:04
thrice`I was asking if you had tried a different input driver when loading the WM, that's all :)18:04
entehow do you start xterm, bte?18:05
enteanyway, it's too late18:05
ThePubMaybe it's a faulty assumption, but if I can start bare X with an xterm and the kyboard/mouse work I would then assume by extenion any client should work.18:05
thrice`if you still have openbox around from your install, might be a quick test to proove it ;)18:06
ThePuband since the WM is just a client with all things reparented.18:06
frinnstdwm.. eew18:17
frinnstits like im back in the 90's18:17
entethat'd be twm18:18
entedwm is fine18:18
ThePubI'd use DWM, if it was worth using :)18:22
entesure you're using crux?18:23
ThePubthe master/secondary concept doesn't grok well with me.  which is why I also don't use Awesome.18:23
ThePublol, why is this?18:23
enteI mean, you're talking about cmd.exe and DWM all the time.. :P18:23
entedwm can be patched to behave differently18:24
enteon the netbook, I only use monocle layout anyway18:24
ThePubhaven't spent this much time on a console in awhile?  :)18:24
ThePubI actually use wmii's scriptability to my advantage.18:24
ThePubhave layers built around it.  And yes, I've tried removing them.18:25
enteit doesn't matter if you script your wm or if you do weird stuff with it's intestines18:25
enteactually, dwm is more flexible18:25
ThePubhehe, maybe for a C person.  I wouldn't know since bash and python are about my speed these days.  Not something I'm going to argue about though.18:28
enteactually, there are enough patches already done :P18:32
enteyou hardly need any C18:33
entebut I guess you're right18:33
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entewmii just seems a little... deprecated18:33
enteand there are far more issues than with dwm18:33
enteI thought about switching to ion318:33
entewmii is slow18:33
enteI won't go back18:33
entefrinnst: and just because something feels old doesn't mean it's bad18:34
ThePubI've never had a "speed" issue with wmii and never understood how someone could.18:34
entefrinnst: linux is a UNIX descendant after all, and it feels better than windows :P18:34
entes/descendant/reinvention of the wheel/18:34
ThePubdwm/wmii have always been on seperate development paths though.18:34
entemaybe I'm wrong18:35
entebut I think it's the same thing as when I switched from screen to tmux (which is faster :P)18:35
entewindow switching etc. is instantaneous18:35
frinnstente: relax :)18:35
enteit isn't on wmii, because the eventloop is first passed to some bash script :P18:35
frinnstbut i honestly dont like it18:36
entefrinnst: I am relaxed :P18:36
ThePubsee, wmii has always been instant start, instant everything.18:36
entenobody forces you ;)18:36
ThePubbut that's just me :)18:36
entefrinnst: what do you use?18:36
ThePubAdditionally I have layers of usability scripted around wmii.  A uzbl profile built with it in mind, etc.  redoing all that is a major pita.18:36
Rotwangopenbox ftw18:36
ThePubtiling wm's are the only real deal out there.18:37
enteit's a little ugly, but just because I'm to lazy to install a real font on this debian mess18:37
ThePubthat's another thing I dislike about dwm, having the window titles on the statusbar vs in a window title.  maybe I'm more prone to spacially finding them becuase of all my years of windows use, idk.18:39
enteI don't look there very much and they don't change at all for most windows18:40
frinnstshit, really late18:41
enteyes :(18:41
frinnstfucking daylightsavings18:41
enteyes >:(18:41
entegood night18:41
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