IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2011-04-10

lain atashi wa atashi00:19
lainoh, wrong window00:19
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entecombat ubuntu03:42
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Romsternice one03:57
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: zope.interface: picked up orphan port, renamed from zopeinterface, updated 3.3.0 -> 3.6.108:29
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: twisted: picked up orphan port, updated 9.0.0 -> 11.0.008:29
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: libcroco: new port08:29
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: librsvg: new port08:29
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: python2-chardet: new port08:29
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: libtorrent-rasterbar: new port08:29
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: deluge: new port08:29
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: librsvg: add gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders post-install08:47
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entewho's that?08:50
Romstercommits? me.08:51
Romsterbeen using deluge for a long time it's about time i share it with everyone than in my private repo. also about time i pruned some old junk laying around too.08:52
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: boost: remove egg-info file08:54
entehm.. deluge08:56
entewas quite good last time I tried it08:56
Romsteryeah i've grown fond of it it's also now got a web interface and you an run the server on another box and use the gtk interface remotely on another machine too.08:56
enteI still use rtorrent08:57
entethe UI sucks, but rtcontrol is nice08:57
Romsterheh isn't that always the case with some programs the UI doesn't get any attention.08:58
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estersis there a reason why pkgfile doesnt specify a sysconfdir, say one example is irssi09:00
estersfrom the repository09:01
Romsterusing the default path that's in autoconfigure09:01
enteactually, irssi config should go to /usr/etc if I'm not mistaken09:01
estersif --prefix is /usr then it will install the configuration file in /usr/etc09:01
Romsteri tend to use /usr/etc/ unless it's a daemon then i use /etc/09:01
estersnot in /etc09:02
estersso that's why09:02
entethat's wanted behaviour09:02
Romsteryeah that's ok unless it's a daemon.09:02
estersi was just checking FHS09:02
enteFHS is backwards sometimes09:02
estersmaybe im just used to that system-wide configuration files reside in /etc09:02
esterseven for user installed software09:02
Romstercrux doesn't always follow standards.09:03
estersi know : )09:03
entefor instance, FHS could finally include libexec :P09:03
Romsteri'm doubtus on this /run09:03
ente/run feels like a dumb idea09:04
enteespecially on crux09:04
entethat's why I posted to the dev-ml a few days ago09:04
enteand got this reply with a lot of points that simply don't apply to crux09:04
Romsteradn the fact that new init system that i forget the name of doesn't support having /usr on another disk.09:04
entemaybe I should have replied09:04
Romsteryeah that one.09:05
enteI find it dubious enough that it's using dbus09:05
Romsteri've mentally labeled it "not quite right".09:06
enteyeah, same here09:06
entepeople call me backwards, but I think if you need a parallelised init, you have too many daemons09:07
Zabaif you think you need a parallel init, you reboot altogether too often09:10
entethat too09:11
enteI just suspend to ram :P09:11
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: libtorrent-rasterbar: remove redundent deps09:11
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: deluge: remove redundent deps09:11
ZabaI boot up my desktop every day, but it almost doesn't have any daemons09:11
Zabaand I'm planning to move some of them to my homeserver at some point09:11
Romsterwell i am using runit :)09:12
enteI'm using sysvinit because it works09:12
Zabasysvinit is awful09:12
enteof course09:12
Zababut replacing it with something else is usually a hassle in a long run09:12
Zabaespecially with regard to things like distro integration, for distros that do a lot of it09:13
Romstertrue replacing it could break something else.09:13
Romsterlazy factor too.09:13
Zababut setting up a saner service supervision system makes perfect sense in some cases, too09:14
enteand actually, even if it's awful, I don't see why I should start replacing something as simple as a process respawner/init by something else09:14
Romsterthis also has a watchdog service to restart any failed process.09:14
Zabaente, if only sysvinit was that simple...09:14
enteit makes/made sense for projects like NetBSD09:14
enteI like how they did it09:14
Zabathe problem is that sysvinit is horribly complex and 90% of its features are unused and broken09:15
enteI don't like the new init replacements for linuxes09:15
Zabaneither do I09:15
enteZaba: still, there's more important stuff that's broken09:15
entelike the way XML is being put everywhere09:15
entejust look at /etc/blkid.tab09:15
Romsterreally someone should fork sysvinit and clean out all the junk and fix any outstanding bugs.09:15
Zabaente, that's a symlink to /dev/null here09:15
Zababecause it's not needed anyway09:16
Romsterlike heck even some debian dude is doing lilo.09:16
enteI switched to extlinux09:16
ZabaRomster, making a reimplementation with just the subset of its features that are actually used would be easier09:16
enteor replacing it entirely09:17
entegetty is also not needed anymore09:17
RomsterZaba, well yeah pretty much what i said but ripping out dead code than to recode it from scratch but that would work too.09:17
ZabaRomster, its code is crud.09:17
Zabaente, getty is needed09:17
entethe musl dev told me he replaced getty by a 2 line shellscript09:17
Romsterno tty's if you had no getty?09:18
ZabaI wouldn't be able to live without a serial connection to my server :P09:18
Zabathe widespread removal of the legacy serial port is so annoying09:19
ZabaI mean, what the hell, you can't connect two computers with usb that easily, stop pretending that it's a non-existent use case09:19
Romsterreally that should be put into another user space program.09:20
enteRS232 is very useful09:20
entejust not for john doe09:20
entedeal with it09:20
entein capitalism, things john doe doesn't use get removed09:20
Romsteruseful when you lock yourself out of the firewall!!! and it's headless.09:20
Zabaente, I think patents are to blame, really :P09:20
Zabaand other red tape shit09:21
enteoh yes09:21
Romsterwonder how long before there is no RS232 on mobo's09:21
Zabaif any random hacker could get the mainstream computer components and assemble their own motherboards, it wouldn't be a problem09:22
ente"intellectual property"09:22
enteI wish people were more open-minded09:22
ZabaRomster, well, my mobo is pretty new and it still has a rs232 port, albeit only an internal one09:22
entewhat we need is open academia09:22
ZabaI need (and I do have) an adapter to make it useful09:22
Romstersame with the LPT port too it's a header on the mobo.09:23
Zabawell, lpt really is quite useless09:23
entewell, all my machines are old enough09:23
enteyeah, indeed09:23
enteat least for bidirectional communication09:24
entebecause it's only supposed to receive data like "the printer is out of paper" flags09:24
Romsteri don't know why they didn't use some of the ground pins to feed 5 volt rail...09:24
ZabaI don't miss PS/2 ports, for example, because usb seems to replace them adequately09:25
Romsteri had a project ages ago that required power so i modifyed my LPT PCI card by cutting a ground pin off and wiring it to 5v so i didn't need another wall wart.09:25
Romsteryeah PS/2 is mostly useless.09:26
enteI do miss PS/209:26
enteI have a model m and I intend to keep using it09:26
Zabahotplugging is quite a large advantage09:26
Zabaproblem with usb is that it's quite horribly complicated09:28
enteit's universal ;)09:28
Zabaand while all that variety of transfer modes and shit makes sense for some applications (or generally for being universal), sometimes you'd just like to have a bidirectional byte stream that's easy to work with :P09:28
estersstill using ps/2 : (09:28
Zabaente, I still have at least two ps/2 keyboards here in use09:29
Zabaerr, esters.09:29
Zabait can be fun sometimes09:29
enteZaba: especially if you do EE and solder your own stuff09:29
Zabalike, I've once accidentally unplugged one, and that made the NIC of the computer stop working.09:29
enteof course, you can buy an USB controller instead of an RS232 one09:29
ZabaI don't do EE09:30
entenobody does09:30
ZabaI just sit around and rant loudly09:30
enteso do I09:30
estersman these branded boxes are awful09:30
entebranded boxes?09:30
estersHP, IBM09:30
enteyou mean a blinky IBM "press the blue access IBM button to select the boot device" BIOS?09:31
esters: D09:31
estersno Im actually using a HP Compaq miditower09:31
estersBut I have a IBM netvista next to me09:31
entewell, if that's the only flaw of my thinkpad, I'm happy with that09:31
Romsterthose blue leds that blind you.09:35
Romsteri do electronics and i've done some designing but not alot around computers for a long time.09:36
Romsteri know the secret to getting the ipad to charge up need 2 resistors of a specific value and solder it to a usb socket, then profit.09:37
estersipad, meh09:37
Zabado you perhaps also know the secret to making ipad an actually useful device09:38
Romsteri don't own any but the other tech at work has one.09:38
Romstersorry there pretty much a iphone but bugger without 3g09:39
Romstererr bigger*09:39
enteZaba: yes09:39
Romsteri've gone all anti-apple anyways.09:39
esters: (09:40
estersyou dont want to be hip ?09:40
Romsternah i don't like how parts are more expensive than buying a new one. and i hate being locked into using tunes etc.09:41
estersbut its a magical device09:41
Zabaapple likes to practice vendor lock-in and everything glossy gets dirty and ugly fast09:41
enteapple makes millions with that09:41
enteZaba: apple also makes millions with that09:41
enteif it gets dirty, you buy a new one09:42
Zabaapple isn't making millions off _me_ because of that, though.  And neither of us cares.09:42
ZabaI'm simply not in their target audience09:42
estersi like that every time a discussion about apple is brought up, everyone participating agrees that the devices are restrictive to 3rd party content and that you have to follow the rules which apple imply on you, yet at the same time some sucker buys a new ipad and things that its the greatest thing ever made09:43
enteactually, apple is brilliant09:43
enteevery vendor should be targetting masochists09:43
esterscool, my graphics card can perform compiz like effects without compiz itself09:49
esterstoo bad it's irritating09:49
Romstergreatest thing since buttered bread, i much prefer freedom.09:49
Romsterhmm nearly 1am better think about bed.09:50
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esters"And this is just how day-to-day GNOME development looks like."10:40
Romsteroh man10:41
Romsterwell he had the hacker spirit.10:44
Romsteri'm heading to bed g'night got work later10:44
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: gnutls: updated to 2.12.217:31
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: vte: updated to 0.28.017:31
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cruxbot[xfce.git/2.7]: terminal: updated to 0.4.718:18
cruxbot[xfce.git/2.7]: xfce4-panel: updated to 4.8.318:18
cruxbot[xfce.git/2.7]: xfce4-genmon-plugin: updated to 3.3.018:18
cruxbot[xfce.git/2.7]: libburn: updated to 1.0.618:18
cruxbot[xfce.git/2.7]: libisofs: updated to 1.0.618:18
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: deluge: add site-packages back it breaks deluge form starting21:58

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