IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2011-04-20

enteno, it's not00:01
entethe common belief is that something can only be good if it's overengineered. simplicity requires thought00:02
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jueente: maybe this helps you, there's a new legacy release from nvidia -> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=242079702:15
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enteah, nice02:39
entethanks :)02:39
juenp02:54
enteI thought they discontinued it02:55
entemaybe only 96.02:55
Romsteri dropped the legacy nvidia stuff quite some time ago.03:43
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enteI dropped it, found out nouveau sucks and switched back03:47
Romsteri tried nouveau and it don't support my GTS250 card03:49
Romsternor my 9600GT when i had that03:49
Romsteronly the 8000 series it would support but i don't have that.03:50
entewhat driver do you use then? vesa?03:50
Romsterthe new nvidia now.03:50
Romstergot no other choice.03:51
Romsteri'd like nouveau to get better to the point it can do at lest 2D then some 3D stuff.03:51
entewhy did you drop the legacy nvidia then?03:52
ente(I have to use it, the new driver doesn't support my card)03:52
Romsterbecause i started using newer card and i wasn't using them old video cards anymore.03:52
enteah03:53
enteI don't see the point in wasting money on hardware when the old hardware still works and you don't need new features03:53
entebecause you don't need a 3d desktop or anything like that03:53
Romsterand then some one removed support for them two older drivers out of gl-select without telling me which pissed me off shortly after that i just dropped them.03:53
Romstermy old mobo died so i got a 9600GT when i got this new system but then i decided to get two GTS250's and moved the 9600GT to the other pc that i've built.03:54
ente*nod*03:54
Romsterwhich i'm partly using as a media center on the tv atm.03:54
Romsterbut it'll be a NAS box later.03:55
enteI have a FX 5200 and a quadro fx 1100 or something03:55
Romsterwith a SAS card.03:55
enteI bought it because it was dirt cheap on ebay and had 2 DVI outs03:55
Romsterpretty old though but your probably on AGP03:55
Romster8400GT was the last of the AGP cards03:56
enteyes, AGP03:56
Romsternot sure if i still got that card here too.03:56
enteI don't want to buy a new mobo either if I don't need to03:56
Romsteri probably got it in the 9600GT box.03:56
Romsteri hear you.03:56
Romstermy old system was a 1.4Ghz thunderbird K7 had ti running for as long as i could.03:57
Romsterbut when it died i decided to go for a new quad core.03:57
Romsterconsidering i compile a ton of stuff.03:57
Romsteri'd still use the older cards if i had a use for them.03:58
Romsteri don't want to get my K6 II 450Mhz running again having that on i586 is a pain and is royally slow.03:59
Romsteri should dump that box.03:59
Romsterthe P3 667MHz i got at a gateway/apache and other services is far faster than that K6 ever will be.04:00
Romsterthough i'd like to still replace the P3 with a 10 watt or less mini pc router. haven't got to that yet.04:01
Romsterperhaps that K6 i can format it and throw windows on it and give it to some card player.04:03
Romsteri hate throwing things out that still work.04:03
enteyeah, so would I if my box dies04:27
entehm I used to use my K6-II I found in uni in the junk as a router04:28
enteyeah, I don't throw stuff away either04:28
enteusually, I go with used hardware04:29
entestill all singlecore though04:29
enteexcept my eee and newer p4, they have HT, but well.. :P04:30
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RomsterP4 hehe got a few at work. i skipped that whole generation at home.05:41
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enteI got a mmx, k6-2, p3, p3 laptop (defunct, I should finally throw the parts away I guess), old p4 desktop, another p4 desktop I got from uni because they threw it out, going to be my new desktop, pentium m thinkpad, atom eee12:27
ente:>12:27
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frinnstcore2quad, core2duo, celeron ~400mhz something, p2-350, amd xp2500 or something, eeepc laptop13:00
frinnstmy current hardware lineup13:00
tilmangeeeek ;)13:00
frinnst+ two busted wallwarts :)13:01
tilmantwo? your guruplug died?13:01
frinnstit never really lived :)13:01
tilmanoh man :(13:01
tilmanmine's happy as a clam13:01
frinnst.. for now13:01
frinnst:)13:02
tilmani'm fairly sure my hardware modding is sufficient13:02
tilmanit survived 2010's hot summer, so ;)13:02
tilmangotta play some hon, bbl13:02
frinnst:)13:02
enteguess I'm going to buy some soekris hardware13:06
tilmani want to buy nuforce hardware. but it's seriously overpriced in germany :((13:24
frinnsti want a working, highquality wallwart again!13:28
* treach makes do with a DNS-320, hasn't had too much time hacking it though.13:32
entesoekris is said to be very high quality13:45
entebut also costs a bit more13:45
enteif it's worth it...13:45
enteI know someone who has several, and he says they never broke13:45
treachit's a bit hard get your paws on, too.13:46
treachhard *to* get13:46
* treach doesn't like dealing with shady import/export firms or giving forign companies a lump of money with the hope of getting a parcel with the promised content at some point in the future, maybe.13:48
frinnstjust dont buy anything made by globalscale. they have 5 year olds soldering everything together13:52
entetreach: shady import/export firms like what?13:53
treachif that's true, the upside would be that it would be fairly easy to redo it properly yourself. :>13:53
treachente: like basement firms in the suburbs13:54
entehttp://www.bytemine.net/de/soekris-engineering doesn't look shady13:54
entewhere are you living?13:55
treachente: I live in a country where geeks doesn't count, and as such, interesting things like the hhk, soekris etc _never_ show up, and thus..13:55
enteorder in the US :P13:56
entewhich country are you talking about?13:56
frinnstsweden13:56
enteah13:56
entehm13:56
frinnst~9mil ppl, too small to even bother for most interesting companies13:57
enteoh, well13:57
entesame here13:57
treachrigth, with our own keyboard layout etc to boot.13:57
enteand it's a little more for germany13:57
entemy thinkpad has swedish keys13:57
ente:>13:57
treachwell, I guess you know how to use them at least. :>13:58
enteyou can't buy decent US layouted keyboards in germany13:58
entetreach: remap to custom US :P13:58
entewith äöüß on altgr13:59
enteand esc on caps etc13:59
treach:>13:59
treachand what about å then? ;)13:59
enteright_ctrl o a13:59
enteå13:59
treachj/k13:59
enteright ctrl is compose13:59
ente14:00
ente:)14:00
enteI added some more things to my keyboard layout14:00
entelike ∊14:00
enteand ⊂⊃14:00
treachI never got wtf was up with the qwertz stuff, you germans seem to have a thing for that..14:01
entehm?14:01
treachfirst time I saw that I thought it was some prankster playing games. :>14:01
ente"the qwertz"?14:01
estersy with z14:01
enteah14:01
entewell14:01
entelook at french keyboards14:02
enteazerty :P14:02
estersbut why...14:02
entefrench is one screwed up layout, I tell ya14:02
treachbah, french, can't implement a standard to save their lives. :/14:02
estersmaybe they drink too much wine14:03
treachwho knows.14:03
enteyou can't drink too much alcohol14:03
estersin soviet russia alcohol drinks you14:03
ente:P14:03
estersso i got this half-dead hp compaq14:04
treachrussia must have the worst kitchen in the world, it's the only place I know where you get anesthetic with the food.14:05
esterswhich distro should i put on it14:05
tilman... and the whole customs bullshit14:05
tilmanfiguring out how much you'll have to shell out for that is rather hard imo14:05
treachright14:06
entehm?14:06
entewhat customs?14:06
enteesters: gentoo trololol14:06
tilmanthis thingy i want is 129$ in the us... but i can get it for 129 EUR here14:06
tilmanwtf!!!114:06
enteah14:06
estersente LFS!14:07
enteSLED14:07
estersSLED ?14:07
entesuse linux :P14:07
esters: (14:07
treachcompaq? what about throwing it in a nice arch ending in a dumpster? :/14:07
entemy main desktop is a compaq box as well14:08
entep4 2GHz :P14:08
estersmy main desktop is compaq evo d310 : (14:08
enterunning crux14:08
esterswith celeron 2.0ghz14:08
treachgreat, that means you get TWO shots at hitting the bin. ;)14:08
entecompaq evo d210sff or something like that14:08
estersoh and i have another compaq with me14:08
estersand an IBM netvista14:08
entetreach: just because something's old doesn't mean you need to throw it away14:09
estersand my dustbin isnt that large : /14:09
estersente: intel graphics ?14:09
treachente: ideally, no.14:09
entethat's retarded consumerism14:09
enteesters: it has an AGP card14:09
entenvidia fx520014:10
estersoh14:10
estersmines a 845g14:10
treachente: I'm actually in full agreement, unfortunately, "modern application developers" are not.14:10
enteI didn't use the onboard graphics in ages14:10
entetreach: they are retarded and serve an industry14:10
treachthus my comment yesterday about getting married to vim.14:10
esterswhich means i get all kinds of freezes, gpu hangs and dropped 2d acceleration14:10
enteI don't support this :P14:10
entehm14:11
enteintel graphics...14:11
entethey work ok on laptops imo14:11
estersnah, this particular chipset was working before the major graphics stack rewrite14:11
estersaka KMS, GEM14:11
entetreach: I got a new old desktop though, also P4 :)14:11
enteesters: downgrade?14:12
treachente: my main thrust was that it's quite hard to keep such a system reasonably patched and up to date, and finding useable applications. Not that they necessarily should be thrown away.14:12
entetreach: actually, it works fine14:12
estersente to what ? KMS was introduced in 2.6.2x series and GEM was also14:12
enteit's faster than my netbook14:12
ente:P14:12
treachWith the exception of that P4, which was garbage already when it left the manufacturer..14:12
esterstis issue is well known at intel14:12
enteand these are being manufactured and sold right now14:12
estersP4 were garbages when Presscot came out14:13
estersnorthwood was acceptable imho14:13
treachI _know_14:13
treachI've had to use photoshop on one of those suckers.14:13
enteactually, my netbook is my main box most of the time14:13
estersbut HT : (14:14
treachyou couldn't do _anything_ without the fan going nuts.14:14
enteI had it for 2 years and it's falling apart14:14
enteesters: yes?14:14
entemy other p4 box also does HT14:14
estersi was referencing that to the last generation of P414:14
estersthey were hot as hell14:15
enteah14:15
enteI might have one of these :)14:15
estersi know that p4 nortwood 3.06ghz was the only non-presscot core p4 which had HT14:15
entehm14:16
estersi have two exact boxes for comparison, celeron runs around 30*C idle and 55*C when loaded 20minutes with prime95, celeron 1.8 willamete core with removed IHS - 42*C idle and 64*C at full load for 20minutes : (14:19
tilmanprices at amazon.com are _excluding_ VAT?14:44
laenMy P4 supports HT, doesn't use it though.. it just can't.15:00
laenJust like my Core 2 Duo.15:00
frinnsti wonder when i'll feel the need to upgrade my c2quad. it still feels like a top of the line cpu15:08
treachwhat, you're not getting a hex? *boggles*15:09
thrice`I still have a core2duo, and kinda feel similar :(15:09
frinnstthough it seems old socket 775 cpus are quite cheap these days15:10
frinnstmeh, different names, same core clocks it seems15:10
frinnstand whats with all the different sockets, intel?15:12
frinnst3 different sockets for the same i7 generatioin?15:12
estersdifferent architectures15:13
enteisn't it obvious?15:13
laenMaybe they're trying stuff out?15:16
laenI'd wait for the new 'tik', whatever it is that comes after this i7 'tok'.15:17
enteyou should wait until the end of moore's law ;)15:17
laenNaw, it's just that the i7 is a nice upgrade for a core 2, but.. i don't think it's gonna be long till it's a lot more.15:18
entewell, I'll be glad to take your core 2 then :)15:18
laenIt's a laptop though, you'd have to take the whole laptop.15:18
entesure ;)15:19
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jaegerAnyone in here use mumble/murmur?16:23
tilmanyes16:23
tilmanmumble + umurmur(d)16:24
tilmanjaeger: what do you need?16:26
jaegerI'm just curious about it. Is it good quality, easy to use/configure the server, etc.?16:27
jaegerNever used it before16:27
jaegerI was thinking about setting one up on a VPS, though16:27
tilmanquality is awesome, umurmur is easy to configure16:27
tilmanumurmur is an alternative, tiny (hence the micro) murmur server16:27
jaegersaw umurmur listed on their site, basically a server without the QT dep?16:27
tilmandoesn't depend on qt eg16:27
tilmanbasically, yeah :)16:28
jaegersounds like the best way to go16:28
tilmani'd recommend to build umurmur from svn trunk16:28
tilmanthe last released version had some stupid misfeatures16:28
tilmanjaeger: http://f106a487554cc30f.paste.se/16:29
tilmanthe client w/o bullshit features16:29
tilmanmight help getting you started =)16:29
jaegernice, thanks16:29
tilmanumurmur depends on openssl only16:30
jaegerThe VPS is a debian setup so I wouldn't be using pkgmk there... though I've considered moving it to CRUX, just haven't done the work yet16:31
tilmani don't have a port for umurmur anyway ;)16:32
jaegerfair enough :)16:35
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: rdesktop: 1.6.0 -> 1.7.017:47
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ThePubwhat would be the purpose of remoing configuration files under /usr/etc in a Pkgfile?  from the documentation it appears we *want* what would normally be in /etc to be in /usr/etc.19:13
ThePubseems you can just set data_doc_DATA to "" but it's determined to still create the directory.  so now to 'solve' that problem :)19:26
ThePubaha!  removed the docDATA variable from the install-data-am target19:37
ThePublol, last two were the wrong channel completely :\  anyways.19:41
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ThePubso if I'm looking at this correctly just throwing a REPO file and every required file under it on an http connection should give me a "repo"?20:54
ThePubtoo bad couldn't just use github :)20:55
ThePubQ: would it preferable for a package to be named with "-git" or something like "-tree" in cases where that can make a difference?  I think the only problem I see with that of course would be where the non"-" package would have files that could clobber it.20:57
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jaegerugh... my crux 2.7 disc really doesn't want to boot on my macbook pro22:28
jaegergotta pick apart the ISO kernel and see what's causing all these random hardware issues22:28
jaegeralso need to make an ISO with parted since fdisk doesn't like GPT22:29
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