IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2011-05-24

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pitillogood morning01:10
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ThePubjust compiled udev 168 and udevd is giving me an error on startup that the "runtime directory: /run/udevd" isn't writeable.  which of course it isn't since it shouldn't be since it should be /var/run/udevd, but for some reason the pkgfile doesn't do anything for that dir01:40
juemorning01:56
jueThePub: that's not a error but a warning, just ignore it01:58
jueudev will use /dev/.udev instead01:59
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Romsterthis whole udev and systemd stuff is starting to shit me.03:03
Romsterand glib in core makes gnome one step closer to domination03:03
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teK_how can a function containing code like assert(1 == 0); NOT cause my program to abort? >_>03:09
Romsterheh that'll never work. must be a typo.03:20
teK_why not? it aborts if (1==0) is false03:21
jueRomster: I agree with your first statement, but how is glib related to gnome, even qt depends on it?03:24
jueor our beloved irssi ;)03:25
Romsterof is it reverse... i thought it's meant to abort if the match evaluates to false.03:27
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ThePubhate it when I make changes to lilo.conf and then restart, forgetting to re-run lilo.03:27
Romsterjue, the g on glib but that's probably over doing it, g probably don't mean gnome anymore on glib.03:27
ThePubdoesn't everyone use gobject, even on the console?  :)03:28
Romsterthe worst worry is systemd and udev, i like udev but it's starting to the way of junk IMO with that dev that's also working on systemd.03:28
teK_http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/functions/assert.html says false, Romster03:28
juehehe, but if the g has a special meaning than it's related to gimp03:28
RomsterThePub, i used to do that now it's subconsciously in my mind to run lilo after every edit.03:29
teK_alias 'vim /etc/lilo.conf'=vim /etc/lilo.conf ; lilo03:29
teK_;)03:29
Romstergnome image manipulation programs or some such.03:29
Romsterlol teK_03:29
ThePubhad "append='video=VGA-1:1280x10243@60'" and it was not liking that on the console for some reason!  silly monitors.03:30
jueRomster: "GIMP is the GNU Image Manipulation Program"03:30
ThePubteK_: joe is OK I hope because vim is not something digestable for me.03:30
Romsteri guess i get all these G's mixed up with GNU and Gnome :)03:31
teK_of course it's okay (if it's okay for you ;))03:31
jue:)03:31
ThePubwell, lets' see if X comes up this time.03:32
cruxbot[core.git/2.7]: udev: update to 17003:32
cruxbot[core.git/2.7]: glib: update to 2.28.703:32
ThePubman, that sucks.  I just did that manually for udev.  30 more minutes and I could've leveraged someone elses's work?!  :(03:34
Romsteri got the whole assert backwards nevermind...03:36
Romsterlol03:36
teK_maybe it's because I'm calling it from a dynamic library (http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=18383 ? ) .. whatever..03:36
Romsteris it me or is udev still beta code until it gets to 9999 then it'll be 1.0 :D03:37
Romsterok i'm off to table tennis later guys03:37
ThePubudev is more like a cat.  it likes things the way it likes it, don't bother any other way.03:37
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ThePubso can a Pkgfile only contain manifest data?  specifically a "Depends on:" line?03:38
ThePuboh, right, would still need a name and version03:39
jue.oO nice systemd error report -> http://tinyurl.com/3hytk6a03:46
ThePubinput-{keyboard,mouse} are not required, don't even need xf86-video-vesa03:46
enteI usually log out with kill -1 -103:47
ThePubqemu-kvm in contrib must've compiled for someone, at one time?03:53
teK_% stat -c %x /usr/ports/packages/qemu-kvm\#0.14.0-1.pkg.tar.gz03:56
teK_2011-02-25 11:22:41.959218995 +010003:56
jueworks for me04:02
cruxbot[xfce.git/2.7]: xfce4-xkb-plugin: updated to 0.5.4.104:05
cruxbot[xfce.git/2.7]: xfce4-sensors-plugin: updated to 1.2.204:05
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ThePubwhoops04:09
ThePubteK_: for some reason it wasn't compiling earlier.  reinstalled crux today though and now it's compiling (unrelated to qemu)04:13
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: elinks: update to 0.12-534bb3804:22
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: /mkvtoolnix: 4.7.0 -> 4.8.007:26
Romsterpam_systemd is the solution to that -_-07:30
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frinnstheh, /mkvtoolnix08:09
ente/mkvtoolgarnix08:12
jaegerdoes udev 170 solve the missing devices issue at boot?08:16
jaegerudevadm settle doesn't work 100%08:16
Romsteryeah i accidentally put a slash in there.08:23
Romsteri'm too scared to bump udev -__08:23
jaegerabout to test it in a VM08:24
jaegerLooks like it did fix the problem; rebooted the VM 5 times without it happening again08:29
Romsteri'm an idiot i just improved my tc QoS performance considerably.08:42
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ThePubhow does the fight for systemd go?10:35
ThePubI actually read the README for udev yesterday and I was surprised to find it says to take the "/sbin/hotplug" information out of your kernel build.10:37
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ThePubhow do I continue the "Depends on" line over several lines?11:03
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ThePubugh11:36
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veeheya12:23
thrice`o/12:28
ThePubwonder if my powerbutton has spits out some kind of button press12:39
ThePublol, awesome.12:42
thrice`probably an acpi event.  you can use acpi_listen  I think, to test12:45
ThePubyeah, I popped open xev and found it does give an XF86PowerOff but then realized that's a little pointless as a user.12:46
veewhat time is it where you guys are at?12:46
ThePubinstead I'd need to capture it in inittab12:46
ThePub26:4612:46
thrice`13:46  :)12:47
veeO.o12:50
ThePubugh, there's a beautiful command to build modelines that comes with xorg and I forgot what it was12:56
ThePubcvt!  tab-completion ftw12:58
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RotwangF13:32
RotwangU13:32
RotwangC13:32
RotwangK13:32
Rotwangwhy visual is so retarded?13:32
Rotwangand why do I have to write code in this fucking piece of crap13:33
Rotwangwhy my uni is so full of this shit13:33
RyoSbe a hero13:33
tilmanstop raging for fucks sake13:34
Rotwangcan't13:34
thrice`lol13:35
jseMust...resist...urge...to...RAGE! :D13:35
RotwangI feel raped by M$13:35
RotwangI was looking for anyone who could write that project for money13:35
Rotwangfound one person ... who codes in visual 200313:36
Rotwangmy uni has visual 200813:36
RyoSenough talk, time to kill?13:37
Rotwangeven prof doesn't know what is happening inside that cow13:37
Rotwangwhen I asked him what is: [studpidShit] all around visuals code, he said he doesn't know13:38
Rotwangwhen he started a new project, and accidentaly deleted few characters from generated code, he decided to start a new project13:39
Rotwanghe has no clue!13:39
tilmani thought you were talking about X visuals13:39
tilmanonly now realized you mean visual studio13:39
tilmanjesus13:39
tilmanRotwang: [stupidShit] sounds like c#'s attributes13:41
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tilmanie they are called Attributes :)13:41
tilmansimilar to java's decorators or what theyre called13:41
RotwangI know what I am going to do, I'm not going to write anything, and then see If he will let my pass this course13:42
ThePubwhich course is that?13:43
Rotwangsoftware engineering13:43
thrice`I think my girlfriend took a VS course.  if she does it, will you send vodka to our home every week, until complete? :)13:43
ThePubif it's anything like the soft eng course I took you have implement a software specification from start to finish.13:43
Rotwangthrice`: I need it until the end of next week, I'll pay in vodka or in spirit13:44
ThePubwhat're you havign a problem with?13:44
Rotwangmy friend has some good ukrainian spirit13:44
RotwangThePub: with visual c++, all of it13:45
ThePubspecifically?  do you not know c++ is that the issue?13:45
RotwangI've got visual express 2008, I wanted to create unit tests, can't find it anywhere13:45
RotwangThePub: c++ is not the isue, visual c++ is the issue13:46
ThePubwouldn't you import a unit test library into your project and implement the api?13:46
Rotwangand windows forms13:46
ThePubwindows forms are actually pretty good!  :)13:46
RotwangThePub: yes it should be there, but can't find it13:46
ThePubit's like the only part of the whole of MS APIs that I didn't think was made by a 12-year-old13:46
Rotwanghehe13:46
ThePubso the problem is the tools, not the languages and such.  find better tools!13:47
RotwangThePub: I have to use this one13:48
ThePubyour school should be able to get you a legit, full, copy of visual studio -- it's 1000 times better13:48
Rotwangbesides visual's c++ is unlike ansi-c++13:48
ThePubyes/no, most of the differences are automated into the MS tools though.13:48
ThePubif you go 100% MS, they actually do a good job of making life easier.13:49
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ThePubbut, unfortunately my exposure is little.  thought it might just be a language issue.  :\13:50
RotwangThePub: but I'm really not going to learn all their stuff just because my prof decided to rape us without vaseline13:51
ThePubstrange you have to use vc++ though.  "software engineering" with a sepcific language slant is strange.  isn't it a course about specifications, etc?13:51
ThePubdo it in F# and tell him where to stuff it ;p13:51
ThePubthis is cool: http://www.homebrewcpu.com/13:53
ThePubthink he could get crux working on that?  p13:53
Rotwangno until someone made kernel port for that arch13:55
ThePubif you read through, he's actually got minix2 ported13:55
ThePubthought that was pretty impressive13:56
ThePubapparently it's connected to the internet though a serial connection to a neibhoring computer which forwards all the packets over its interface.13:56
ThePubalthough one of his updates says he's making a custom ethernet interface, so it might be connected directly by now.  still kind've cool.13:57
RotwangThePub: yes but I guess kernel would be much harder to port13:57
Rotwanglinux kernel*13:57
ThePubwell of course, but crux really is just a software framework running on top of the gnu system13:58
Rotwangok I'm downloading full version of visual 2008 from msdnaa13:58
RotwangThePub: crux is generally a gnu/linux distribution13:58
ThePubthat's not to say it couldn't be Minix/Crux ;)13:58
Rotwangsure13:59
ThePubcould even port it to osX or Windows.  underlying operating system doesn't matter as long as the tools have their dependencies met.13:59
RotwangI guess we could argue all they long about what crux is and isn't ;f14:00
Rotwangs/they/day/14:00
Rotwangdamn I'm dyslexic14:00
ThePubI have a disk image where I've used lots of gobo ideas with the crux tools for example14:01
ThePuband it even works on Gnu/KFreeBSD14:02
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disco_slackhello there14:17
disco_slack anyone here?14:19
disco_slack:)14:19
thrice`no, go away!14:19
disco_slack:D14:19
disco_slacklol14:19
disco_slacki have a question. I use mostly slackware and I am intrigued by the simplicity concept of Crux14:20
disco_slackI wonder if there is a current iso of Crux with the latest packages14:20
disco_slack?14:20
thrice`yep, one sec14:20
Rotwangdisco_slack: write simple app in visual c++ (2008) for me, I pay in vodka14:21
thrice`http://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/crux/files/updated-crux-iso/14:22
Rotwangor beer14:22
Rotwangor both14:22
Rotwangor spirit14:22
disco_slack Rotwang  I don't know C++14:22
Rotwangwhatever you like14:22
disco_slackthrice`, thanks man14:22
Rotwanggood, you doesn't have to14:22
Rotwangyou just click, click and everything automagically happens14:23
disco_slackthrice`, I wonder if someone has made a custom isntaller for crux also14:24
disco_slackI really would like to avoid the kernel compilation procedure during install14:24
disco_slackthrice`, slackware ncurse installer is a very good one for example14:25
disco_slackthrice`, anybody done it?14:25
Rotwangdisco_slack: no, you will have to do all by yourself14:25
disco_slackRotwang, I know, just wondering if someone has created a custom installer script14:25
Rotwangthere is installer script14:26
Rotwangbut it wont create kernel image for you14:26
disco_slacki see14:27
disco_slackwell, I am reading a lot recently and it is not that i am good in linux. but seems that crux is among the best distros to learn linux14:27
RotwangIndeed14:28
disco_slacki just wanted to avoid kernel compilation as i always fail in that14:28
disco_slack:D14:28
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Rotwangcrux is good to get viewpoint about generic stuff in linux14:29
disco_slackthat is my impression too14:29
disco_slackright now i am enjoying slackware and i now i know how to configure manually it in my laptop14:30
Rotwangbesides it is not only for learning14:30
RotwangI use crux everyday on my home pc and laptop I use for work14:30
disco_slackbut slack is not good for installing packages...boring14:30
disco_slackRotwang, good...i bet u are an IT admin14:30
ThePubkernel compile is pretty straightforward.14:30
disco_slackis there a true benefit in kernel compilaltion with the recent hardwares?14:31
disco_slackjust asking14:31
disco_slacki mean using slackware my computer is really fast14:31
disco_slackand i am using its huge kernel version (has everything in it)14:32
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ThePubpart of the point of simpleness is building a kernel tailored for your hardware14:33
disco_slack ThePub true...14:33
ThePublots of binary distributions build kernels with every module and use an initrd which tries to account for everything.  that definitely is less simple.14:34
ThePubbesides, once you've built the kernel once just save the config file and apply it over the life of kernel upgrades14:34
ThePubor compile in the config option from the kernel so it can strip the symbols when building new ones14:35
disco_slackguess, I wonder if there is a database with kernel configs based on desktop or laptop types14:38
disco_slackdoes it exist?14:38
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ThePubno clue14:39
Rotwangdisco_slack: it is much more educative to create your own14:40
Rotwangand also much more frustrating14:40
ThePubnot really, just time consuming.14:40
Rotwangbut not as much as writing in visual14:40
RotwangThePub: it is14:40
ThePubjust look at the option and find out if your pc supports it.14:41
disco_slacki will do. it great talking with u all...14:42
disco_slackgood nigh14:42
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RyoSwhilist this is a question hour, somebody here has a program that could display a png with transparent parts that shows desktop below?14:51
RyoSs/has/knows/14:52
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ThePubRyoS: what's your goal?15:08
ThePubRyoS: gimp will properly display png's with alpha channels, but it's not going to show the desktop, just the window.15:08
RyoSThePub: we need it for a presentation.. basically i want two layers, one in the background with projectm hooked up on line in, then a front layer with a cut out logo, projected to a wall15:20
ThePubcouldn't something like that be done with ffmpeg or the like?15:25
ThePubhere's something interesting: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/overlay-images-video-using-mplayer-and-mencoder15:26
RotwangI just downloaded microsoft visual studio 2008 sp1, ~800 MB15:28
Rotwangit turned out to be only service pack15:28
Rotwangentire crux iso is three times smaller15:29
Rotwangwth15:29
RyoSThePub: great idea, might save the day :) ill let you know if it works when i come to next try it15:29
ThePubRotwang: and visual studio supports all MS languages, has a huge MS api included, all the documentation, etc.15:30
ThePubRotwang: it's hardly a comparison.15:30
Rotwangindeed15:32
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Rotwangvisual profesional is 3.3 GB15:33
ThePubthe windows api is huge too, layers and layers of compatibility over the years isn't small.15:34
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joacimStill can't reliably run much of the old software I require.15:52
joacimI suppose it isn't microsoft's fault tho.15:53
Stythyshey guys16:02
joacimhello16:07
Stythysjoacim: how goes it -^^-16:13
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joacimwatched a movie that didnt live up to the hype16:14
joacimthats about it16:14
Stythysheh16:15
joacimin post-minecraft mode now16:15
joacimdont know what to build16:15
Stythysah minecraft16:15
Stythys:P16:15
joacimgood game to waste a few hours on16:16
Stythysas I've heard16:17
Stythyshaven't tried it myself yet :P16:17
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ThePubwho ever believes hype?16:55
ThePubI haven't seen a movie I'd consider "good" in over 10 years.  generally movie makers now rely too much on CG or action sequences to wow an audience, not entangle them in good drama.16:55
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StythysThePub: heh really? :P17:49
StythysI guess I haven't seen that many good movies recently come to think of it17:49
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veehey guys, how do you install fonts for crux? im so confused :(18:26
joacimput ttf in ~/.fonts18:37
joacimotf is probably supported too18:38
joacimsame as any other distro for the most part18:38
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veethere is no ~/.fonts though. would need to be created?19:27
veehm. are the truetype fonts available from prt-get?19:28
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joacimyou'll have to create every single folder that isnt there20:00
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ThePub anyone good with xorg keyboard configuration?  :)20:46
ThePubreally annoying because the Menu key also types a tilde.  I was just wondering if there is some way around this.20:53
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RomsterThePub> how do I continue the "Depends on" line over several lines? you don't pout a enter at all on it jsut let it wrap around in the browser21:29
RomsterRotwang> damn I'm dyslexic, join the club :D21:35
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Stythyscrux.nu down? :/22:58
jaegerseems to be23:06
ThePubthere are lots of other Web sites though which do work!23:07
StythysNO23:07
StythysCRUX.NU IS LIFE23:07
ThePuboh, ok23:07
Stythys:P23:07
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