IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2011-05-29

ThePubI'm sure it's simple, but cmake is unable to find any of the test files from a software build when running under pkgmk but it is able to find them all when running outside of that (ie. directly run configure, make, etc)00:25
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ThePubI see now.  under pkgmk the build files are being copied into a seperate work directory.  Is there a way to disable that automagic features/01:21
ThePubcmake is the most f'd up build system01:35
ThePuboops, wrong channel01:35
tilmanit's not fucked up, it's special01:40
tilman;)01:40
ThePubthe issue ultimately is crux's, not cmakes.  although, because cmake is inflexible the build fails.  what boggles my mind is this port use to work just fine on the x86 variant but under x86_64 it doesn't?01:45
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RomsterI could take over libdvdcss form opt and have it in contrib since only libdvdread uses it and i already maintain libdvdread.04:37
Romsters/form/from04:38
sudacan crux be installed without compiling the kernel? like with a pre-compiled one?04:38
Romsteryou could use a existing kernel provided the drivers for mounting the root file system are built in.04:39
Romsteror you use a initramfs setup.04:39
Romsteryou could just reuse the config file and make oldconfg04:40
sudawill a kernel that comes with another distro do?04:46
Rotwangsuda: basically yes04:50
Rotwangbut you need to remember about initramfs04:50
entehttp://www.uppercutmusic.com/artist_l/louis_armstrong_lyrics/sugar_foot_strut_lyrics.html04:51
enteoops04:51
entehttp://video.golem.de/oss/4823/interview-mit-lennart-poettering-entwickler-systemd.html04:51
enteyes!04:51
tilmanlennart: fuck you and  you retarded systemd crap!04:52
tilmanyour*04:52
Rotwangand visual studio!04:53
tilmanlennart: j/k ;)04:53
lennart04:53
entehttp://monolight.cc/2011/05/the-systemd-fallacy/04:53
entelennart, tilman: are you related? :P04:54
tilmanyes04:54
sudaRomster, Rotwang: thanks, I will try that04:54
ente(poettering is called mezcalero on freenode, btw)04:54
tilmanhe was bitching about poettering sharing his first name04:54
tilmanleading to 'false positive' hilights in irssi04:54
tilman:D04:54
entepoor lennart :(04:54
entethat must be awful04:54
tilman:D04:55
lennartthx :)04:55
Rotwangente: nice rant04:57
RotwangI was thinking recently about porting systemd for crux04:58
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tilmanthought is gone now?04:58
tilman:]04:58
Rotwangtilman: not much free time04:58
RotwangI'm in the process of switching jobs, lots to do on the uni04:59
entehttp://lwn.net/Articles/440636/ <- poettering is enjoying serious fanboyism04:59
tilmanRotwang: n/m, i was suggesting you didnt want to port it anymore now that you've read that rant :))04:59
Rotwanghaha [;05:00
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Romsterbe nice if the darn video was in english.05:05
Romsterhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo005:16
RotwangRomster: yeah it is hard to listen05:18
Romsterdistorted :/05:19
Romsterand the accent don't help05:19
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horrorStruckhi #crux05:22
Rotwanghi horrorStruck05:24
horrorStruckhey Rotwang05:24
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jseHahaha. Nice LWN comments on systemd...06:00
jseWho needs chroots anymore when there's systemd-nspawn?!06:01
Romsteryeah just reading though that myself...06:03
Romsteri love charging stuff but this is one i don't agree with.06:03
jseSuppose there might be a few redeeming ideas there.06:05
jseThey're awfully desktop-oriented.06:06
Rotwangfrom that youtube video I noticed lennart is very desktop oriented06:09
Rotwanglennart: sorry for false positive highlighting you ;f06:09
lennart:)06:09
lennartif it's a highlight in this channel it is 99% false positive, so I got used to it ;)06:10
Rotwanghehe06:10
Romsterand into games and graphics06:21
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slack1is it true that Per Linden is retired from Crux ?08:16
slack1*Liden08:16
jseHe retired years ago from the project.08:17
slack1thnx08:17
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Romsteryes but it's still maintained as you can see.08:20
Romsteri can't remember if per has dropped in here a couple of times in the past to just say g'day08:21
slack1i wonder, if there is any plan to "modify" the install procedure in the future08:22
jseModify meaning what exactly?08:23
slack1jse. Crux targets experienced user08:24
jseIndeed it does. That's actually a feature and a project goal. :P08:24
slack1what crux excludes is that once u install it in computer is very easy to use it even for  non experienced linux users08:24
slack1its simplicity is very tempting for any distro imho08:25
slack1so, I was thinking, maybe a friendlier installer would open the doors to a larger user base08:25
Romsternot necessarily, you have compiles to contend to and sometimes they error and for various reasons.08:25
Romsterthere is ubuntu for a friendlier installer08:26
slack1ubuntu is a mess08:26
slack1:)08:26
Romsteragreed08:26
Romsterbut it's ok for a first time user.08:26
Romsterbefore they move to something better.08:26
Romstercrux forces you to learn :)08:26
slack1i use slackware, and i am amased how easy is to maintain this distro after u set it up08:26
slack1i think crux is even simpler if you install it08:27
slack1maybe i am wrogn08:27
Romsteri must admit the kernel can be a pain sometimes on a new machine.08:27
slack1Romster, exactly08:27
Romstercrux is simpler than slackware08:27
slack1that is a feature that I would love to see during install procedure08:27
slack1an option to install a compiled kernel08:28
slack1the user can choose to compile a new one or install an already made in the iso08:28
Romsterwell it's also a great filter to weed out the "wannabes" from the "I'll be damned if this is going to beat me's"08:28
Romsterbut that's just my opinion.08:29
slack1but computers are tools to make our life easier, :) we should fight with then08:29
slack1*them08:29
slack1:)08:29
slack1or make them easier to use08:29
Romsterthat might not be such a bad idea though.08:29
Romsterproblem is you can't support every bit of hardware.08:30
slack1then, the user can start compiling08:30
slack1a new kernel08:30
Romsteradd a feature request on flyspray on the site08:30
Romstersince i'm only a user and a contrib ports maintainer.08:31
slack1my idea of installer is this...1) show the partitions, 2) cfdisk in case nothing is prepared 3) option to choose a kernel compiled or choose to compile from beginngin 4)select packages, 5) choose to configure the settings, 6 bootloader options, 7 use Crux08:32
slack1:)08:32
jseIt's not about weeding out "wannabes" from the userbase.08:32
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jseTrue, it does seem like that a little because it is expected that the user knows what to do. :P08:33
jseWhile it's not documented anywhere you can in fact use the install media kernel by copying the image and its modules over.08:35
slack1:) well my idea is to share knowledge in the right way so that users can learn and advance in knoledge... a compiled kernel will save time and make the user run Crux easier. than he can choose to compile a new kernel.08:35
slack1jse, how can that be done?08:35
jseCrud. Can't find the instructions I wrote down some years ago. Sorry. :/08:40
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Romstera nit pick but i don't see how a pre-compiled kernel is going to advance knowledge if you don't learn how to make one.08:52
jseYou said it, Romster.08:54
Romsterbut someone did discuss some default minimal .config on the wiki as a starting point.08:55
joacimwhat about "make localmodconfig" ?09:03
Rotwanghttp://blog.jitbit.com/2011/05/what-if-drivers-were-hired-like.html10:00
frinnstlol10:40
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ThePubRomster: you know what would be interesting would be a hardware database that gives a user the targetted kernel changes required to make it work.14:19
ThePubThat could include whole machines.  For example my main desktop is an Emachines Model ABC (it's attrotious I don't really know), but there could be an included config file in such a database to use with kernel X.14:20
ThePubI'm thinking kind of how winehq has an app database with a specified section describing the soluton to making softwae work.14:22
ThePub(by software)14:22
ThePubI still remember trying to get a pci tv card working under linux a few years ago.  It was an offbrand, terrible english "documentation".  Turned out to actually be simple since it had a bt878 chip on it, but not knowing much about the hardware I had to rundown all the bits of writing on the chips of the card with google to find some info.14:27
ThePub(the model info wasn't any good, the manufacturer was out-of-business)14:27
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ThePubnetpbm fails to build, something must have changed :(17:52
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ThePubexit20:56
ThePuboops20:56
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ThePubanything in /etc/modprobe.d should be loaded?23:05
ThePubas a module23:05
ThePubah, been awhile since I wanted to do this sort of thing.  usually build everything in :)23:06
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