IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2011-07-04

entewhat will the gays think when they hit normal porn...00:41
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Ovim-Obscurum < ente> what will the gays think when they hit normal porn...01:38
ente[04:44] < Romster>
ente[04:44] < Romster> also note i managed to hit some random gay porn ewww..... so watch the random if at work01:39
ente[07:41] < ente> what will the gays think when they hit normal porn...01:39
Ovim-ObscurumI'm not going to watch this :P01:40
Ovim-Obscurum<- at work01:40
entethis one's sfw01:40
Ovim-ObscurumNo ;P01:40
enteif you don't believe me, that doesn't make it nsfw01:43
Ovim-Obscurumente: Better watch my 1338h4xx0|2e leetness instead:
entewatch my leet hacks instead :P01:45
Ovim-ObscurumDon't understand a line perl ;P01:46
enteneither do I01:46
entetook about 10 minutes01:47
enteplus 2h for the X11 part01:47
Ovim-ObscurumHehe :D01:48
Ovim-ObscurumI did some python a few years ago - cool language, but I got no time for it :(01:48
enteyou got time to compile all your software by yourself01:49
enteand before that, you had the time to put up with arch01:49
enteand no, I don't think python is a cool language, not anymore01:50
enteas you can't guess what it does:
enteI had to brag about it :P01:52
Ovim-ObscurumArch,.. ;P01:52
Ovim-ObscurumI had it on some notebooks before01:52
Ovim-ObscurumWhen I had 372392 notebooks01:52
enteI had it on this one before01:53
entewhat happened to them?01:53
entewould you mind giving some of them to me? :P01:53
Ovim-ObscurumI sold them on eBay01:53
Ovim-ObscurumHad 2, 3 older nbs01:53
Ovim-ObscurumAnd a thinkpad tablet PC01:53
Ovim-ObscurumWas a little bit tooo old for my needs - was only a Centrino 1G with 1.5 Ghz oO01:54
enteyou have strange needs, my friend01:54
enteapart from display size, my eee 1000h is perfectly fine01:54
entebut on the other hand, that makes it portable01:55
Ovim-ObscurumI need at least a dual core and Intel VT for virtualization01:55
Ovim-ObscurumAnd a big display01:55
enteI think that centrino might be faster than an eee01:55
Ovim-ObscurumIt was 1G, the frist ones.01:55
Ovim-ObscurumThey weren't that powerful than the new ones.01:55
Ovim-ObscurumThe current generation is pretty good - got two of the latest gen here (Thinkpad R500/X200)01:56
enteyou know, I never had a multiprocessor machine01:56
Ovim-ObscurumUh oh :)01:57
Ovim-ObscurumI only got multi-core machines here, except my router/firewall/dmz-server01:57
entegotta go01:59
enteOvim-Obscurum: what do you do? are you yet another CS student?02:00
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Ovim-ObscurumI'm an IT administrator.02:04
Ovim-ObscurumJust finished my apprenticeship as "Fachinformatiker für Systemintegration"02:05
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Ovim-Obscurumqt = quicktime? P03:03
Ovim-Obscurum* :P03:03
Ovim-ObscurumYeah ente - no CS student? :P03:05
Ovim-ObscurumAnd you ente? Student?03:07
enteand I hate it:P03:18
Ovim-ObscurumWhat are you studying?03:20
Ovim-ObscurumWhat the heck is that?03:23
Ovim-ObscurumNever heard that.03:23
entecomputer science03:24
Ovim-ObscurumAh, okay. ;)03:24
Ovim-ObscurumBachelor or MoS?03:24
enteBS (Bullshit) or MS (Microsoft)03:24
Ovim-Obscurumente: What are you going to do after studying?03:28
entebe a janitor03:28
Ovim-ObscurumNot interested in IT anymore?03:29
frinnstjust stay away from retail03:35
frinnstor you'll go insane03:35
frinnstyeah, you dont want to work with that03:38
frinnstppl are insane03:38
Ovim-ObscurumDon't know, what you're talking about :D03:40
frinnstretail = selling stuff in a shop03:40
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Ovim-ObscurumYeah - but what does this have with studying in common? :D03:45
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Ovim-ObscurumHi sepen03:52
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Ovim-ObscurumHi ardo, treach04:18
frinnstOvim-Obscurum: i was thinking more of protecting him from that career choice :)04:23
Ovim-ObscurumAh ;P04:23
Ovim-ObscurumOk :D04:23
treachbah, retail can't be worse than being the "it-janitor". :/04:24
frinnstim sorry, but it is :)04:25
frinnstim just glad i got out of it04:25
treach"customers" might be a pita, but at least I've never heard of anyone being expected to do magic in that line of work.04:26
frinnstdepends on what youre selling i guess and what your responsibilities are04:28
frinnsti used to work in a fucking paint-store.. selling paints, tiles, wallpapers etc04:29
frinnstive had customers that were building houses.. and youre expected to calculate exactly how much of everything they will need and that its delivered on time04:30
frinnstif you order too much, your screwed.. if you order to little youre responsible for a  handful of workers not being able to do their job04:30
frinnst+ its always YOUR fault04:31
frinnstfor anyting that goes wrong04:31
loweThe customer is always right, right ;)04:31
treachhow about asking the customer if they go to the supermarket and expect to tell the staff there that they are "having some guest, so please deliver appropriate amount of x, y and z?"04:33
loweRetail can be quite good though, always liked it where I used to work (book store).. Worst part was the slow days, but then again, we were never expected too calculate peoples paint usages etc.04:34
treachthat's not the retailer's job. it should be done by the lazy bum who is doing the paint-job.04:35
lowetreach: Its' hard though, even if you tell the customer "You'll probably get a better estimate from your painter" some of them will insit on "Can't you give me your best estimate" and then they will hold you personally responsible if it's not 100% right.04:35
frinnsttreach: ppl are fucking ISANE04:36
treachI *know* that.04:36
* treach is regularily being asked to do magic too. "Fix our network, you'll get a budget of $20".04:37
jseNext stop: turn tricks.04:37
loweSure, you could loose some customers by just telling them "I told you..", but in a small town a bad reputation is well.. you're screwed if you get one and don't manage to shake it. Esp when there is other places to get the same (or similar) products.04:38
jseOh, and you *owe* US money for that.04:38
jseThe modern customer... Run to the hills :>04:40
jseAutonomous automatons who are not responsible for any of their actions.04:41
jseIn fact it is unthinkable that it is EVER their own fault for anything. :>04:41
treachwell, "I sell this stuff, it's your job to find out how much, just like if you were buying flour or gas."04:42
jseWAT?! How is that possible? I'm really expected to *know* something?! Does not compute.04:44
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frinnsttreach: yes, but you cant actually say that to a customer.. you just have to smile and take it in the ass :)04:44
treachI tell people stuff like that all the time. Usually works for me.04:46
frinnstyeah but you work in IT :)04:46
entefrinnst: what do you do now?04:46
frinnsti sit in an office next to lowe04:46
frinnstin a bunker04:47
treachthe idea isn't to be totally unhelpful, it is to make people understand that they have to have some sort of idea what they need.04:47
loweDoing the datacenter thing.04:47
entereminds me of the userfriendly missile silo episodes04:47
loweHard part is really being the sales person, often you can't personally take the decision to drop the sale because the customer is an asshat. And to drag your boss in to it works in some stores, but not all.. It really comes down to store managment, if managment is good you know when you can tell the customer to go (in a polite way) and you should always be able to direct a "bad" customer to your boss. Most stores doesn't work like that though.04:47
loweimo an "upset" customer should always be directed to the person who have the authority to take a decision regarding whatever is upsetting him. If i feel that aint me I should direct him to my boss. But if the boss is an asshat who don't want to deal with customers (or angry customers, at least) your pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place..04:50
frinnstente: www.valvea.se04:51
ente :D04:51
entefrinnst: oh, nice :)04:52
loweente: We're 100% missile free though, we're built to keep the nukes out, not to keep them in.04:52
treachsounds like life at Rosenbad. :>04:52
enteoh god, I love userfriendly :D04:53
Ovim-Obscurumadodb <304:59
entethat sounds like adobe05:00
Ovim-ObscurumIt's a database abstraction layer for PHP05:00
Ovim-ObscurumAdvantage: Your adodb-capable application runs on many DBs - MySQL, MSSQL, Oracle, PGSQL, DB2, MaxDB,..05:01
entesounds awful05:01
Ovim-ObscurumYeah - I'm using it for my current software project (coding a CRM) to run it on many DBs05:03
Ovim-ObscurumWorks so fine :)05:03
loweI'm not really sure if database agnosticism in larger projects is a feature. In some cases it's very handy but you lock yourself out from a lot of DB-specifict features. You could of course build your own app to support optimizations for different DBs too, but then why're one using a db-agnostic library in the first place.05:07
Ovim-ObscurumYou're right - but it's going to be a big product for companies, it's going to be a small nice tool for people, who want to manage their "beside business".05:09
Ovim-ObscurumIn the first I'm doing this for myself - and publish it as open source for everyone.05:09
loweI'm not trying to criticize your project, sorry if it sounded like that. Every project is unique and in the case you describe database agnosticim is definitly a nifty feature, with few drawbacks.05:13
loweI've personally found it a bit booring to code for multiple databases lately though. Esp. when you read up on cool postgres features you can't really use etc.05:14
loweThen again, it's easy to overuse the DB too. Really not a fan of massive amounts of stored procedures etc.05:14
Ovim-ObscurumYeah, you're absolutely right - abstractin the db is something different than making a product run perfect on one db05:15
Ovim-Obscurumadodb doesn't use all the cool pgsql features :)05:15
prologic(I'm in this late)05:15
prologicbut quite frankly, ihmo, dbs are overused in a lot of places05:15
Ovim-ObscurumYeah, that's why there a lot of "no-dbs" ;)05:19
Ovim-ObscurumTo build a layer which is like a DB, but isn't a db really05:20
prologicin the Python world05:23
prologicthat's called pickle05:23
prologicor json if you fancy that (I do)05:23
Ovim-ObscurumYeah :)05:24
Ovim-ObscurumBut let's say - for a CRM - it is absolutely necessary to use a DB. But for logging hits on a page, you could also use a normal file instead of a pgsql DB ;) That's senseless.05:25
treachdbs aren't overused. excel is. >_<05:25
Ovim-Obscurumtreach: +105:25
prologicactually to be honest05:26
prologicfor a CRM I'd not use a tupical SQL db either05:26
Ovim-ObscurumWhat would you use?05:26
prologicI'd only start thinking about a real db if we're dealing with huge data sets05:26
Ovim-ObscurumExcel? :D05:26
prologicindexing, etc05:26
Ovim-ObscurumYeah, that's correct.05:26
prologicyou know ...05:27
prologicmillions of records05:27
Ovim-ObscurumFor a big one ;)05:27
prologicI find tableized structures useless sometimes05:27
Ovim-ObscurumIf you're doing a big business you'll need SAP at some time :D05:27
prologicanyway TV time :)05:27
Ovim-ObscurumHave fune prologic .)05:27
seanwHey all.  Getting this message on bootup of a freshly installed CRUX: umount: /sys: device is busy followed by mount: sysfs already mounted or /sys busy—what’s going on?05:44
prologicseanw, yeah ignore that05:47
prologicI believe it to by a bug with /etc/rc05:47
prologicbut harmless05:47
seanwAh cool thanks.05:47
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seanwJust reading up on packages and ports, and can’t quite see difference between ports -u and multiple httpup commands; what’s the best way to track private port repos?06:43
sepenmpup IMHO06:44
seanwHow does that differ from ports -u?  Can that only do the official repos?06:44
enteyou paste a ports link one at each line and it updates them06:45
seanwAre you sure?  I just ran ports -u to sync the core repos on my freshly installed system.06:47
entethere should be a wiki article on mpup, I guess06:47
enteseanw: do you have mpup installed/configured?06:47
seanwNo, haven’t done anything yet except fail to install zile and find a repo with a port for it :)06:48
Ovim-ObscurumIs this link working at your pc?06:48
Ovim-ObscurumI can't connect to the page06:48
enteseems to timeout06:49
Ovim-ObscurumFail :/06:49
seanwGoogle Cache might know about it.06:50
seanwente, shall I install it?06:50
enteseanw: yes06:50
Ovim-Obscurumseanw: No, timeouting, too. :x06:51
seanwente, okay, so mpup basically just avoids downloading the entire repo when you just want one package, nothing more?06:53
entethat won't help you building zile though, I guess06:53
enteif this hnc port is broken06:54
seanwWhy’s that?06:54
seanwNo it’s broken beacuse I haven’t added the repo yet :06:54
enteyes, and it also helps updating ports from 3rd-party-repos06:54
entebecause you don't want the whole repo for 3 little ports06:54
seanwSo suppose I want to customise a pkgfile; for this the neatest way is to set up my own ports repo right?  And if so, for my repo I’ll want to set it up to be synced with ports -u as I’ll want every package?06:55
jseThe most useful way to have customized ports are to have your own repo.06:58
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enteactually, I thought about making a local repo and just source the original Pkgfile06:59
entesource ../../opt/whatever/Pkgfile07:00
entebuild() { ./configure --with-custom-flags ... }07:00
jseI've copied the desired port over to say /usr/ports/local and edited from there.07:01
seanwBut if I did make my own repo I’d want to put a file for it in /etc/ports/ and update with ports -u?07:01
entejse: that doesn't make version bumps automagic ;)07:01
entebut i've done that in past07:01
enteseanw: no07:02
jseente: you're right. Never saw that as a big problem though.07:02
entejse: you don't run a crux server with customised software with security flaws, do you? :P07:02
entein fact,neither do I :D07:02
enteseanw: it's completley local07:03
seanwente, then what?07:03
enteseanw: you just add it to /etc/prt-get.conf07:03
sepenalso you could try to setup custom flags in pkgmk.conf and configure installation filters in pkgadd.conf07:03
enteno need to update anything, because all the files are already there07:03
jseports -u only handles repositories which are pulled in via rsync or httpup.07:03
seanwno no I mean if I put up my own repo on my web server, so that I can pull it to multiple machines, I’d want it in /etc/ports/07:03
enteyes, then you would07:04
seanwWhat’s special about httpup over rsync btw?07:04
enteit works over http07:04
entewhich might be useful behind a firewall07:04
seanwoh of course.07:04
jseUse what works (tm). :P07:05
Ovim-ObscurumBut th browser is also fail :/07:17
teK_wustball is awesome07:17
Ovim-ObscurumHeard the first time of that page here in #crux07:18
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Romsteryeah until i hit random one too many times...07:26
Ovim-ObscurumC'mon, show us!07:29
teK_it's a timesink07:30
teK_a friend of mine clicked through all images..07:30
enteteK_: tell him to start with and after he's done :P07:38
Romster lol...07:41
teK_uah07:42 was suspended07:42
teK_wurstball has a All-Button :>07:42
Romster not safe for work07:44
Romster say what....07:46
teK_I'm @uni, I won't.. :>07:47
Romsterunless you want your life to be hell from the other students -_-07:48
teK_they are busy chatting (loudly) and disturbing me07:48
teK_btw ente thats me on +.07:49
Romster epic07:49
Romster what the hell...07:53
frinnstlol Romster i clicked on your nsfw link thinking "how bad can it be"?07:54
teK_there was a dog making a real LONG poop yesterday :>07:54
Romsterit's that bad.07:54
teK_the embarassing thing is not that it's a dog.. it's the fact that it's female :>07:54
Ovim-Obscurum < Romster> not safe for work07:54
Romsteri was happily going though random then ewww...07:54
Ovim-ObscurumWhat the..07:55
Ovim-ObscurumThat page's content reminds me on 4chan07:55
Romsterok it didn't gross me out but i was not expecting it.07:55
teK_it gets the links via IRC07:55
Ovim-ObscurumteK_: On which networks?07:55
Ovim-ObscurumAll :D07:55
teK_I'd kill to know that :>07:55
Romster farts...07:58
Romstermore like what channels on what network07:59
Ovim-Obscurum#4fuckr #4chan07:59
Ovim-ObscurumThat's enough to build a db at that size07:59
teK_wurstball is not like 4chan08:00
Romsterlol poor peter08:01
Romsterexcept that one link i found...08:01
Romsterother than that it's quite clean.08:02
teK_most time :>08:02
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teK_Germany's Army's boffin exploring methods to protect from cyber-attacks:
enteteK_: on +.? google +? where?08:04
teK_hab dich eingekreist08:04
Romster LOL poor dog08:05
enteg+ weiß nichts davon :)08:05
teK_bist schon der 2.08:06
Ovim-ObscurumOh teK_ spricht deutsch? :D08:06
Ovim-Obscurum:) Fein08:08
Romster haha nice burn out08:08
enteteK_: ah, da bist du08:09
teK_laggy stuff08:09
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Romsterafter market designer bags anyone ^^08:13
teK_ first seen on wurstball, too. <308:14
Romsterlol nice08:14
teK_my Grandpa's Birthday is on Oct 3rd08:15
teK_hmm :>08:15
Ovim-ObscurumDo you know the Rage guy?08:20
Ovim-ObscurumIf you know all those memes, you have to know this, too.08:21
Romster that's seriously bad cabling08:21
teK_I have to put Romster posting URLs on ignore ::P08:22
Romsteri'll stop posting urls -_-08:24
teK_stop brwosing wurstball and be productive again!08:24
Romsteryeah those sites are so counter productive08:24
Ovim-Obscurumfinished my work for today :))08:28
ente meanwhile in germany08:29
ente aww08:32
sepen /win 408:32
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Romster ok this one was just too good not to post... so closes my browser now.08:47
Romstersepen, pygtk needs a serious bump.08:47
sepenI'm waiting for gtk308:48
sepenRomster: did you tried to do this bump? so you need gtk3 for new releases of pygtk iirc08:49
jseRomster: hahah. As this shows, writing movie screenplays is a highly technical and deep subject matter.08:49
jseThey're totally original too.08:50
Romsteri was blown away to read that. having seen both movies.08:51
Romsterunobtanium great name08:51
Romstersepen, hmm i have,'t tried yet... just noticed it's not a few versions behing it's heaps behind, if i get unlazy i'll give gtk3 a try.08:52
sepenRomster: finally I updated some py* packages, many thanks for remember that to me :D09:45
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seanwWhat’s the best way to install the cacert root certificates so that wget will accept them with CRUX?09:59
sepenseanw: did you mean named.root file?10:52
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Rotwangcrap, frinnst I've accidentally sent a mail to you which was supposed to go to contribML, please give it back11:20
seanwI don’t think I know what named.root is.11:24
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jsefrinnst: :>12:43
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Rotwangnice coments13:48
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ente :D13:57
enteso true13:57
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frinnstwow, fedora really is as sucky as i remember when trying core4 way back15:06
frinnstgnome3 is close to unusable15:07
frinnstand kde4 isnt much better15:07
treachbored to the point of starting a little flamewar? ;)15:09
frinnstnah, just amazed at the kde/gnome developers15:11
treach(not that I'll argue about the suckyness of fedora/gnome3)15:11
treachkde 4.6 is quite nice, at least on suse IMO. It's pretty much depending on the graphics drivers though.15:12
frinnsti thought these new DE's were supposed to play nice with small screens15:13
treachkde does, if you use the netbook "shell"15:13
frinnstgnome3 is unusable in that regard, critical buttons are inacessible below the screen15:13
frinnsti just installed fedora/kde15:13
frinnstmy statement regarding its suckiness was due to the fact that the package updater crashes on a fresh install15:14
treachgnome 3 sucks indeed, I can't even read the text on the screen because it's black on a dark blue background..15:14
treachyum is anything but. :/15:14
treachI'm not going to advertise, but there is only one major dist I've never really ever had any problems with, and that's not fedora.. nor is it debian/ubuntu.15:16
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Rotwangis it crux?15:18
Ovim-ObscurumGnome 3 and KDE SC 4.x both SUCK :P15:19
Ovim-ObscurumI'm very satisfied with LXDE15:19
RotwangI like lxde as well, but its developement seems to have stalled15:21
Ovim-ObscurumYeah - but that's going to change because Lubuntu has become a official part of Ubuntu.15:21
Ovim-ObscurumThat means there are many developers of Canoncial working on it now. :)15:22
Rotwangdoubt it15:22
Rotwangubuntu does not give back to community much15:22
Ovim-ObscurumMhm, I don't know the details - but since there's Ubuntu, i like Debian on desktops more - so it seems that there is an exchange IMHO15:23
Ovim-ObscurumI think there desktop applications of debian have been very stable in the last 5 years.15:24
Ovim-Obscurum*have become15:24
Rotwangand what it has to do with ubuntu?15:25
Ovim-ObscurumI think that there is an exchange of patches and packages15:29
Ovim-ObscurumAlso talked to some developers at ubucon 200715:29
Ovim-ObscurumAnd they told me so, that there's a massive exchange.15:29
RotwangI think there is very poor exchange between ubuntu/debiand and upstream15:30
treachdebian, and ubuntu have numerous times made me spend quite some time fixing up its package db because the system unexpectedly ran out of power. Me don't like. :/15:32
RotwangOvim-Obscurum: I know it from experience15:32
Ovim-ObscurumWeird. I've got a totally different oppinion.15:32
Ovim-ObscurumI've been using Debian on servers for years right now and never had any problems.15:32
treachwell, that's it probably.15:33
Ovim-ObscurumI got to know Ubuntu at 2005 - and used it for a few years as main system. I'm using it only on one host anymore at that time. I don't like the way, the distro changed.15:33
treachpresumeably there's a lot of people who doesn't.15:34
Ovim-ObscurumIt's nice as "instant distro". But if you want a professional and stable system, it's not the right IMHO15:34
RotwangOvim-Obscurum: your view is probably wrong15:35
Rotwangfrom what I know there is not much ubu dev's who contribute to upstream projects15:35
Rotwang"With the dozens, or maybe even hundreds, of engineers in  Canonical’s employ now, why do none of them do any of the heavy lifting  in GNOME, or in any other upstream project, for that matter?"15:36
treachthat was a year ago, fwiw.15:36
Ovim-ObscurumOh oO15:36
Rotwangthis post is year old,15:36
Ovim-ObscurumI didn't know that.15:36
Rotwangtreach: yeah, did it change?15:36
Rotwangbecause I'm not aware of that15:36
treachI don't really know, I don't follow ubuntu that close, but I do know they did co-operate with the kde-people wrt the notification area in unity/kde4.15:37
treachwhile the gnome people insisted on doing their own thing, while having their heads up their asses15:37
Ovim-ObscurumYeah because they might need it for their marketing ;P15:38
treachno, it's called "interoperability"15:38
ente"screw that, we're gnome"15:41
treachthe way it looked, it was more like "we're idiots, but we're not going to admit it, even if it makes us look like clowns"15:42
Ovim-Obscurumgood night everyone15:50
Ovim-Obscurumn8 :)15:51
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