IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2011-09-20

frinnstrmull: hopefully theyve seen it, but throw out a mail anyways00:49
pitillogood morning01:10
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veecrux.nu is still down :(01:25
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Romsterya know if used ports git driver. github could be a crux.nu mirror03:09
Romsterfor ports at least03:10
crshd+1 for git03:10
entewhaaa?03:11
crshdi was already thinking if there was a way i could put my ports on github03:11
entethis is not about git vs svn? :P03:11
entealso, CVS rocks :P03:12
Romsterno this is about able to push and download ports on github other git sites as a mirror.03:12
Romsterso if crux.nu is out we can still get ports and push to ports database.03:13
RomsterCVS is old as anything why does CVS rock?03:13
entebecause the BSDs still use it :F03:14
entejust kidding03:14
Romstergentoo uses it too though funtoo uses git.03:14
enteit makes sense for BSD03:14
Romsteri just wonder what features CVS has over others.03:14
enteI think gentoo doesn't work the same way as BSD base-system wise03:14
enteRomster: it's central and it's not svn03:15
Romsterone thing i do like on CVS is that i can cd into a directory and cvs up on that directory only and not wait for the entire thing to sync.03:15
Romsterother than that...03:16
Romsterit takes forever to cvs up a large repository due to all the tcp overhead for each file while git packs everything.03:16
Romstermonotone mercurial or git is the best choice due to being no central server design.03:18
entethe central design is a good thing for BSD03:19
entebecause that way, they can put every library version ever in their CVS03:20
enteand you don't have to check it out03:20
entethe NetBSD source tree is 1.9GB after a cvs checkout03:20
entethat's already big enough, I don't need the versions from 10 years ago03:20
teK_so you'd do git clone --depth=1 ...03:21
Romsteryeah just use depth03:21
Romsterdone that before on a huge history project.03:22
Romsterwhen you only need the recent stuff and not need to bisect.03:22
entethat still means you accumulate everything that comes after, right?03:22
entewith every pull, you get 100 commits until you finally clone the entire thing again?03:22
Romsteronly if you git fetch after that point.03:22
Romsteryou get a delta of your copy to the remote ends objects.03:23
enteI think the NetBSD guys are mostly against git because they don't like it03:24
enteoh, that and probably so that they don't need to put python or perl in the base system03:24
entefunny, actually03:25
crshdthey don't have perl?03:25
entehm.03:25
entenope03:26
entedoesn't look that way03:26
Romsteroh that might be why then...03:26
Romsterthough i'd expect many would install perl03:26
entethey can use the ports03:26
enteit's not like there is no perl port03:26
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entemany would also install java03:27
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entethat's not a reason to have it in the base system :-P03:27
Romsteryou wouldn't have cvs in the base system either i guess.03:27
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Romstermost probably rsync there ports.03:27
enteyou usually check out /usr/src and /usr/{ports,pkgsrc} via cvs03:28
entewell, not on FreeBSD..03:28
Romsterthe reason i am thinking of git ports driver is for us contrib members03:28
Romsterand any other crux hosted repo for that matter.03:28
enteFreeBSD uses svn and has csup and portsnap to fetch the ports and source code03:29
Romstereveryone else could just use rsync.03:29
enteand they still push their svn commits to a cvs mirror, it seems03:29
Romsterthat's probably for backwards compatibility for older cvs only builds.03:29
entestarf ~/src/misc/nbsdsrc $ find . -name md5.c | wc -l03:29
ente1303:29
enteimpressive03:30
enteonly 13 :P03:30
Romsterwhat why not the one and include it...03:30
entethings like heimdal and openldap ship their own copy03:31
entepossibly with slightly different semantics and licenses03:31
Romsterhmm03:31
entethere are 3 md5 implementations in the exim source03:31
Romsterthat's just silly.03:31
entewell, one is linked in from openssl03:31
entethe other two are the one from pdkim and the one from exim03:32
enteNIH :)03:32
Romsterthey should choose one and make everything else work for that one implementation. try finding a bug in one fo the many md5.c files. which file is it now :D03:32
enteit's perfectly clear which part of the code uses which implementation03:33
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fakerootHi.03:54
fakerootLong time :)03:54
fakerootIs crux.nu dead?03:54
enteyes03:55
ente:)03:55
enteare you root? :P03:55
entehm.. is toor fakeroot? :D03:55
enteteK_: Romster: in fact, dragonflybsd uses git03:56
fakerootente: I'm just faking :)03:56
fakerootWhy crux.nu is down?03:56
fakerootI've just wanted to get an iso.03:57
frinnstno idea03:57
enteshoulnd't there be torrents for isos?03:57
frinnstregular i686 iso?03:57
frinnstthere are, but the tracker is hosted on crux.nu :)03:57
enteouch03:57
fakerootTorrents are evil. Don't you know?03:57
frinnstiirc03:57
entehm03:57
frinnstfakeroot: i686 iso?03:57
frinnsti can mirror it03:58
enteftp://ftp.barfooze.de/pub/crux/iso/crux-2.7.iso03:58
enteunofficial mirror, official iso03:58
ente:P03:58
fakerootente: OK, got it.03:58
fakerootBut why is it down?04:00
frinnstwe dont know yet04:00
frinnstseems like an epic failure, the hosts dns-server are down too04:01
frinnstas is www.kalmarndc.se04:03
Romsterthe day kernel.org comes back up will been i celebrate by cracking open a bottle of champagne or something...04:25
Romsterdoes not take over 2 weeks to restore backups04:26
deep42thoughtlol04:26
Romsterwasn't there some site that shows the world map and all the backbone internet cables and the typical packet loss and latency?04:27
Romsteri can't remember the site i'm pretty sure i did see one.04:28
Romsterin light of this break in i'm hoping they'll setup a round robbin DNS and have at least two servers to minimize down time.04:32
Romsterhmm come to think of it who pays for crus's site and dns name etc?04:33
Romsterdonated?04:33
frinnstpli still owns the domain i think04:42
frinnsthosting is sponsored by kalmarndc04:42
Romsterah05:00
Romsterby the looks of things an entire data center is not reachable.05:10
deep42thoughtburned down?05:10
Romsterno idea05:13
Romsterhttp://www.internettrafficreport.com/05:17
Romsterthat might of been the site i was thinking of but couldn't recall the name05:17
Romsterwasn't even looking for it and i spotted that05:17
deep42thought17% package loss is quite much ...05:18
Romstervery high05:20
Romsterhttp://www.internettrafficreport.com/history/305.htm this one is even out05:20
Romsterhttp://www.internettrafficreport.com/namerica.htm that looks bad05:22
deep42thoughtlooks like some states don't have power ...05:24
Romsterseems ti don't show all the data centers and stuff tough only the major links05:24
Romsterhmm that could be it05:24
Romsterthe other links that are like 75% packet loss are probably routing the traffic around the dead paths05:26
tilmanjue: have you heard from charlie or anyone regarding the problems crux.nu has?05:50
teK_I haven't05:51
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featurehello2all06:22
deep42thoughthi06:23
featurecrux website is down?06:23
crshdyeah06:23
deep42thoughtthere seems to be down a lot06:23
crshdsince yesterday, IIRC06:23
featuremaintance?06:24
frinnstno, massive failure it seems06:24
frinnstthe whole datacenter is MIA06:24
frinnstnobodys answers the phone either, they are probably busy :)06:25
featureconnection with kernel.org?06:26
crshdmy guess is spontaneous combustion.06:26
tilmanfeature: none =)06:26
frinnstno :)06:26
featurethx :)06:27
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Romsterno kernel.org was intentionally pulled down due to break in, though it's been over two weeks now and it's still not back up.06:33
frinnstfor those of you who reads swedish: http://www.barometern.se/nyheter/kalmar/kff-och-kalmarsalen-drabbade-av-teleavbrottet%282949175%29.gm06:37
frinnstbroken optical fiber06:38
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entesomeone spilled a coffee over the optical fiber and there was a short circuit? ;)07:06
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RomsterSorry, we are unable to translate the page you requested. stupid google08:18
deep42thoughtwhat language did you try, klingon?08:19
frinnstDigiNotar Goes Bankrupt After Hack08:20
frinnstlol08:20
frinnstpwned!08:20
RomsterThe latest was that it would be fixed at eight o'clock this morning. It is apparently a fiber that is inaccessible that have gone by, says Charlie Marcenzi.08:21
Romsterhah funny deep42thought08:21
frinnstSwedish is closely related to klingon, iirc08:21
frinnst:)08:21
deep42thoughtLOL08:21
Romsteri would not find this news if i were to search for it due to it being not in english.08:22
Romsterand here i was thinking someone probably cut a cable again.08:25
Romsterit's usually the same story, some idiot digs up a cable without first checking what cables are in the vicinity.08:26
deep42thoughtyeah, but sometimes they're not marked or something ... or in the wrong depth ^^08:28
Romstersometimes but i'd be very suprised if a fibre optic cable was in the wrong spot since how how are fibre cables now?08:29
jaegerit's amazing how often "not marked properly" is the answer08:30
jaegeryou'd think they'd learn to document better08:30
Romsteri would expect they could use GPS to have some accuracy thesedays08:30
deep42thoughtmeasuring the place is the least problem08:31
Romsternow i wonder how many fibres they broke and will the slice it or have to run a whole new cable though.08:32
Romsters/the/they08:32
deep42thoughtis there any redundancy for this case ("spare fibres", ...)?08:33
Romsterdon't know but you'd think they would have some spares.08:33
Romsterbut if the cable is cleanly broken then all fibres be severed.08:33
deep42thoughthmm, thought there could be an additional cable (so they now have 50% uplink)08:34
Romsterthat was Monday but what happened to that other outage crux.nu had before Monday.08:34
Romsteri would of expected multiple paths, but they probably hit a major cable that had no backup path.08:35
deep42thoughtthe backbone :-(08:35
Romstermost cases the other cables take up the slack with most often packet loss and lots of latency due too not being able to handle the load.08:36
Romsterbut this case it's totally dead not even 1 response.08:36
Romsternot worried though i can wait ti's kernel.org that's getting on my nerves.08:38
Romsteri'll be expecting an article on LWN for why it took so damn long.08:39
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rmullhooray, crux.nu is back10:35
enteoh, wow :)10:37
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rmullNow as for kernel.org...10:46
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enteyup10:48
Ovim-Obscurumuh10:55
Ovim-Obscurumcrux.nu is online again10:55
Ovim-Obscurum:)10:55
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joe6i am currently a debian user ad am thinking of moving to crux, for its' simplicity. Are there any ways that I could just upgrade without having to use a cd/usb/ or some such device?11:32
thrice`joe6, you can loop-mount the .iso file and run pkgadd manually, which usually works.  trying to rebuild the system by hand can be tougher, getting the toolcahin right :>11:34
joe6all my hardware is listed in the "Driver(s) included in bootkernel" except for my display card: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV44A [GeForce 6200] (rev a1) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])11:35
joe6will that be a problem?11:35
joe6thrice`: thanks a lot.11:35
joe6it is interesting that the kernel is Linux 2.6.35.6, and I am currently on 3.0.011:38
joe6and there has not been a release since 2010-10-02, almost an year.11:39
joe6why is that? are the users savy enough that they do not care about the releases?11:39
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joe6i see changesets in the development timeline until last week, though.11:43
joe6uri: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html , interesting read.11:48
enteyes11:56
entewe ain't dead11:57
ente:P11:57
entejoe6: there just hasn't been a release.. :)11:57
enteI think frinnst has an updated iso11:57
enteah, no, jaeger11:57
joe6ente, ok, thanks. will check them out.11:58
Ovim-Obscurumente ente ente ente ente12:00
Ovim-Obscurum:D12:00
entenervsack12:00
entejemand mit awaynick braucht garnix sagen hier :P12:00
Ovim-ObscurumLOL12:01
Ovim-ObscurumMein Nick ist kein Away nick12:01
ente[19:36] < Ovim|afk_nA> brb lunch12:05
entelügerer12:05
tilmanbonus points if you keep it english in here12:05
enteliaaaaar12:05
entebetter?12:06
tilman:>12:06
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frinnstdebian stable has ancient packages.. debian is dead!!!!12:21
entefedora has the latest git version of every package! fedora is the most alive distro ever!12:26
joe6btw, would it be hard to get xinerama working. I have a dual monitor setup and I am still reading up on crux. Is it possible with crux?12:27
joe6dual monitor/xmonad is what I currently have as my desktop.12:28
Ovim-Obscurumente: mhmhmh12:31
tilmansure it's possible12:31
Ovim-Obscurumente: My nick is automatically changed due to DSL disconnects12:31
tilmanjoe6: these days "true" xinerama isn't used anymore though, you usually just go with a merged framebuffer ;)12:31
tilmanjoe6: what does your current setup look like? two x servers?12:32
joe6tilman, no, nothing that complicated: http://codepad.org/7mc73oC512:32
jaegerthat reminds me, I should build another updated ISO12:32
jaegerjoe6: twinview is easy to set up if it suits your needs... if you actually need xinerama, though, I imagine it can be done12:33
jaegercrux doesn't use any wacky out-of-the-box type stuff, xorg is xorg12:34
joe6@jaeger, will it be too much work to get xinerama running on crux, for someone just starting with crux?12:35
jaegerI don't recall it being difficult at all, though I've not used it in years12:36
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Ovim-ObscurumThe question is if crux is the correct for someone how wants to get nice-to-have stuff like xinerama working by starting12:37
enteI did it with nvidia-settings last time12:37
tilmandual head is easy as pie with open drivers12:37
entebecause xrandr just wouldn't show my second screen12:38
tilman(nfc about nvidia. twinview sounds about right though)12:38
enteor rather, my second output12:38
enteVGA1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)12:38
entesomething like that was missing12:38
enteseems you need nvidia-settings in case you use the nvidia blob, then12:39
enteI remember having performance issues with nouveau12:39
enteback in 2.6.35 or so12:39
entewindows were moving really slow, if you moved them12:39
entewith a lot of latency12:39
entealmost felt like my entire X was running via ssh on a machine in china12:39
enteor something like that12:40
Ovim-Obscurumlol ente12:41
enteyes, it really was slow as hell12:41
Ovim-Obscurumhad the same issues12:41
Ovim-ObscurumI always installed the closed-source driver12:42
entecongratulations, freedesktop12:42
Ovim-Obscurumbut it worked!12:42
tilmanidiot12:42
entehm?12:42
tilmanfacepalm worthy idiotic statement12:42
Ovim-ObscurumI think it is a statement - I want a working desktop12:43
Ovim-ObscurumSo what?12:43
enteI think tilman means me12:43
Ovim-ObscurumNo way to this at THAT time with the open driver12:43
tilmanindeed12:43
jaegerente: nvidia-settings isn't required even if you use the nvidia binary driver12:43
jaegersome things it makes easier to configure but there's no requirement12:43
entejaeger: I know12:43
enteand he's probably right :P12:43
jaegerI misunderstood your statement, then, sorry12:44
entewait, why am I around in a channel with public logs again?12:44
Ovim-ObscurumLOL12:45
tilmanyou may use whatever you like, but sarcastic congrats for the nouveau project are fail when you consider their achievement12:45
ente:P12:46
joe6i use nouveau and it works with dual monitors.12:46
joe6and xrandr12:46
entethat probably means that your hardware is supported better than mine12:46
tilmanjoe6: yes. depends on the exact chip on your board of course12:46
joe6oh, ok.12:46
entewhich is fascinating, because mine is really old and cheap12:47
entemaybe I should donate it to them12:47
jaegerIts 3D was pretty underdeveloped last time I looked at nouveau but that was a while back12:47
Ovim-ObscurumMaybe you might better buy working hardware ente12:47
Ovim-ObscurumAnd no stuff from 1980 ;P12:47
enteit was moving around a window on a 2D desktop12:47
enteVGA1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)12:48
ente%&!#^12:48
entehttp://up.barfooze.de/starf-201109201950.png12:48
enteI should buy new hardware, yes12:48
entebecause my terminals need 3d acceleration12:48
joe6ente, do you use xmonad?12:48
entedwm12:48
joe6why do terminals need 3d acceleration?12:48
Ovim-ObscurumIf you don't need 3d, don't try it and scream if it doens't work oO?12:48
entethey don't12:48
jaegerI'm guessing that was sarcasm12:49
enteOvim-Obscurum: I don't?!12:49
Ovim-Obscurumjoe6: Good question.12:49
juetilman: no, but looks like the problem has been solved in the meantime :)12:49
Ovim-ObscurumBut nice desktop ;P12:49
enteOvim-Obscurum: this had nothing to do with 3D12:49
entewhat's your point?12:49
ente...12:50
joe6ok, crux, here I come. hopefully, I will survive.12:50
enteI hope you do12:50
ente;)12:50
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Ovim-Obscurumehrm12:50
jaegerThat whole conversation was rather odd12:51
jueWRT nouveau, works nice for me with a old/cheap GeForce 660012:52
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jaegerThe features matrix looks a bit bleak for my gtx 460 currently but they'll get there eventually12:53
juebut 2d only, was unable to build the mesa driver12:53
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juethe only real issue I've seen is that there's no power-management, the chip is always running at 100%, the heatsink temperature is around 70°C which is 25°C more than with the nvidia binary driver12:59
juejust in case someone wants to test/use it, I've a libdrm-nouveau and a xorg-xf86-video-nouveau port in my private repo13:04
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joe6jaeger, i was trying to check out the kernel release in the latest iso. I could not find a package list there. Would you happen to know what version of linux kernel it has on it?13:36
jaegerI don't remember, sorry13:37
joe6ok, thanks.13:37
joe6btw, what version of kernel are you on?13:37
thrice`there isn't actually a kernel port - typically people just build them on their own13:40
jaegeryeah, that13:40
joe6thrice`: ok, thanks. will check out the kernel core port.13:40
Rotwangthere is none13:41
joe6oh, sorry. misread it.13:41
thrice`the .iso just provides a tarball from kernel.org, and extracts it to /usr/src/ :)13:41
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featurehello2all13:45
featureanyone know how to get rid of error messages when booting root on ext4. error ext2fs: couldn't mount because of unsupported optional features13:47
Rotwanghello2u13:47
jaegerdid you create the fs with a different set of e2fsprogs?13:47
featureyou are right13:48
jaegerfrom a different distribution for example13:48
featurei used different boot cd13:48
featurethx13:48
featureis it that simple?13:49
jaegerso you could either recreate the fs without any patches to e2fsprogs, or you could patch your e2fsprogs to match13:49
jaeger(or enable whatever the feature is)13:49
featurethx again ill try13:50
jaegernp13:50
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jaegerironic nickname, there13:50
frinnsthttp://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/09/vladimir-putin-action-man/100147/13:51
frinnstsuperman13:51
jaegermy favorites are the arm-wrestling and the puppy13:52
jaegerman of the people!13:52
thrice`lol13:53
joe6i am about to start the installation using the method recommend by thrice', mount the .iso and run pkgadd manually. btw, i have a raid1 (with 2 disks) for my system. Just curious if anyone foresees any problems.14:01
joe6I knew that grub had some issues when I first started on raid-1.14:01
joe6but, the latest grub releases have no issue.14:02
joe6just curious if anyone is aware of any such issues.14:02
teK_anyone ever had luck booting a windows7 .iso (directly) via grub4dos or smth. similiar?14:02
jaegerjoe6: mdadm raid1?14:03
joe6yes.14:03
jaegerI've installed it there before without trouble14:03
joe6and i can see mdadm in the ports dir14:04
joe6so, I am guessing it is used and works. but, just wanted to make sure that there were no quirks that i need to be aware of.14:04
jaegermake sure you either use .9 metadata or you create an initramfs to load your mdadm arrays before booting fully14:04
joe60.9 metadata while partitioning the disks, you mean?14:05
jaegerwhen creating arrays14:05
jaegerif you plan to use the kernel's builtin mdadm autostart14:05
frinnsti use mdadm currently on raid514:06
frinnstseparate bootdisk though14:06
frinnsthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NA-ST8nXl4U14:06
frinnsti lol'ed14:06
jaegerhaha, nice14:06
frinnsthttp://www.milkandcookies.com/link/268055/detail/14:12
frinnstwoz is awesome14:12
frinnstsorry for the url-spam btw :)14:12
joe6i have a raid-1 array with 2 disks, i removed one disk from the raid array, format the disk and build it as a new raid device, mount it and then continue the crux installation  on it?14:26
joe6or, is there any way that I can go from "remove disk from existing array" to "mount and crux install" on it.?14:27
joe6other way, i mean.14:27
joe6i think i need to first install crux on the disk and then make that a raid array.14:29
jaegerwhy not create the array fully before installing?14:31
joe6good idea, thanks, will do.14:31
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veequick question. when building pcmanfm, i tcomes to the pcmanfm-0.9.8.tar.gz.partial downloads for a few seconds, and is no longer able to download and eventually times out. but when i go to http://crux.org. and download the file directly it works without an issue14:39
veei've even tried downloading and pasting it in there, but it still trys to download it anyway14:39
joe6jaeger: the metadata 0.90 was a good suggestion, thanks.14:53
jaegernp14:53
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jaegervee: seems like their site has issues14:57
vee_jaeger: figured :914:57
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veei built support for my intel hd audio card, but alsa conf doesn't seem to find it O.o15:18
RotwangI find that if you build into kernel (not as a module) support for your card, alsamixer and other alsarelated stuff has problems with it15:31
veewell, the intel hd audio was built as a module. everything else inside was built with direct support.....15:31
veealsamixer actually finds the hd intel card thing15:32
veeim going to try to build it as a user rather than root, i feel that may be the problem15:32
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frinnstuhm, no thats not the problem15:36
frinnstmake sure you have the right codec for the intel_hda driver15:36
veewhat do you mean by right codec?15:38
frinnstthere are loads of chips for intel_hda, make sure you select the right one in your kernel config15:50
veeoh god. i selected all of them. xD15:51
frinnstwell, then it should work i guess15:53
frinnstoh well, zzzzz15:53
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veebut its not O.o15:55
veei figured it out16:04
veeit had the right driver and modules, but, the stuff in the alsaconf sound card stuff was using the wrong chipset16:11
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joe6is it recommended to add mdadm to the list of services in /etc/rc.conf? it probably needs to be started long before, I assume.16:23
joe6my / is a raid-1 array.16:25
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joe6is it a bad idea to use the kernel config file of debian for the first crux kernel?16:50
joe6uri: http://agentoss.wordpress.com/2011/05/14/compiling-your-kernel-during-crux-linux-2-7-i686-installation/ seems to be a good way to go about installing the kernel.16:51
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joe6grub> setup --stage2=/boot/grub/stage2 (hdX), this is what the uri: http://crux.nu/Main/Handbook2-6#grubinstall says, but I do not see a stage2 folder created by the installed grub package. the grub package is  opt/grub#0.97-6.pkg.tar.xz19:46
joe6http://codepad.org/YYgQ6boK19:48
joe6any thoughts, please?19:49
joe6got it, they seem to be created here: usr/share/grub/i386-p19:51
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Romsteri haven't sued grub only lilo. perhaps the wiki needs updating for grub?21:13
Romsters/sued/used21:16
Romsterstupid typo i keep doing that21:16
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joe6yes, i think needs to have the device selection first, then the root and then the setup, I think.21:47
joe6grub, i mean21:48
joe6btw, can multiple prt-get commands be run at the same time?21:48
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rmulljoe6: Yes, multiple commands can run at the same time22:12
joe6rmull, thanks.22:13
joe6i used to use gnu stow on debian. I cannot seem to find a port of gnu stow for crux. does crux package management make gnu stow obsolete?22:13
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joe6jue " I've a libdrm-nouveau and a xorg-xf86-video-nouveau port in my private repo" -- can I get this? Where is it?22:48
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