IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2011-10-08

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horrorStruckRomster: you can use --with-gtk=2.0 for webkit to avoid the gtk3 deps02:11
Romsteroh nuts why didn't i even look at the configure options changing.02:26
Romsteri'm an idiot.02:26
entegood morning02:29
horrorStruckhi ente02:29
Romstermorning ente02:30
enteI can't maintain usb_modeswitch like this02:30
enteI mean, I can still test if it builds, but not if it works02:31
Romsteragain i assumed it would detect the *.pc files and pick what was available.02:31
enteand I don't want to remove it again02:32
entebut apparently nobody uses it02:32
Romsterdo you use it?02:33
entenot anymore, that's the point02:34
enteI think the download link has been broken for months02:35
ente Don't use this package if you have the "tcl" package installed - it will replace "/usr/bin/tclsh" with a link to "/usr/bin/jimsh"."02:40
enteoh, congratulations02:40
entethat's from usb_modeswitch-jimsh02:40
enteinstead of changing the file header, they change the symlink to the system wide tcl interpreter02:41
Romsterthat's dumb.02:47
Romsterso someone forked that.02:48
Romsterand did a dumb thing.02:48
Romsterrename the symlink/file header?02:48
Romsterthough your not using it and no one has complained so i would just mark it on the wiki as a orphaned port.02:49
entenope, that's from a variant to the "real" usb_modeswitch02:50
entemarking it on the wiki might be an idea02:51
Romsteroh this blows i'll wait for the pvmove to be done first.... it's causing massive lockups when i build in a chroot.02:58
Romsteri'll be happy once they finish fixing all the BKL mess in the smaller subsystems.03:00
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veequick question. i added "user hostname=NOPASSWD: /sbin/shutdown -h now,/sbin/reboot" to the sudoers (with my user name as well as my host), and edited the sudoers to add myself to the wheel03:39
veebut the computer still wont shutdown without a password03:39
veewhat am i doing wrong?03:40
horrorStruckis /sbin in user's path ?03:42
veewhat do you mean?03:43
horrorStruckecho $PATH03:43
horrorStruckanyway, scratch that03:44
horrorStruckif you can use it with a password03:44
horrorStruckthat's not the issue03:44
veewhy isn't it sending anything O.o03:45
veeit responded with /bin:/usr/bin:/opt/bin03:45
veethe echo, at least03:45
veethe echo you wanted me to run, those we the results03:45
veebut then you said never mind lol03:45
horrorStruckbu t how can you use sudo with password and use shutdown ?03:46
horrorStruckif it's not in your path03:46
veeyea i figured03:46
veeonce you said never mind03:46
horrorStruckdoes sudo shutdown -h now works for you ? (with password)03:47
horrorStruckor you have to shutdown as root?03:47
veeim sure hte path is correct03:47
veei feel i've done something wrong in the /etc/sudoers03:47
veesudo /sbin/shutdown -h now works with a password03:47
horrorStruckforget it, i'm dumb03:49
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veesorry about that. i figured it out. i was right, there was something wrong in the /etc/sudoers03:51
veethe sudo group was commented out03:51
vee*face palm*03:51
veewell, thanks again for your help. sorry to cause you trouble. good night everyone!03:52
horrorStruckdon't thank me for a dump reply :P good night03:53
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juegood morning03:58
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horrorStruckmorning jue04:00
cruxbot[core.git/2.7]: libmpfr: update to 3.1.0-p104:13
Romsterhmm probably a combination of moving off that disk with write locks ccache on that disk and home that's also got the safe-build directory04:15
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horrorStruckjue: would you consider adding nl80211 support in wpa_supplicant? wext is not developed anymore and nl80211 is using modern kernel features. it would add a new dep (libnl). i can provide a patch if you want.05:20
horrorStruckjue: more details on why we may want to drop wext
horrorStruckwell not drop it but add support for nl80211 :) i'm using /usr/sbin/wpa_supplicant -Dnl80211 -B -i wlan0 -c /etc/wpa.conf since months and it works great05:29
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: webkit: 1.4.3 -> 1.6.107:01
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: midori: update for webkit 1.6.107:01
Romsterops wrong channel doh07:05
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thrice`new glibc :o07:51
Romstercrux 2.8 might be not far away then :D07:54
Romsterthugh i'd let it stew for some time due to glibc bugs.07:55
juehorrorStruck: sure, no problem, patch appreciated07:59
jueoops :)08:02
horrorStruckjue: great :) how to handle the new dep? libnl is in contrib, it's a rotwang port08:20
Romsterask rotwang08:27
juewe have to move it into opt08:27
horrorStruckso, should i ask rotwang?08:30
juenot necessary, I'll do that if we adopt your patch08:32
horrorStruckok thanks. patch is only to modify wpa_supplicant default .config file, it's two sed lines in the Pkgfile08:33
juehmm, the port is quite outdated, contrib/libnl is at 2.0, 3.2.1 is current08:33
thrice`seems some distros are sticking to libnl 1.1, and not touching anything newer?  at least checking gentoo, arch, and slackware08:35
juethe question is why? Never used libnl myself, so I've no idea08:38
juehorrorStruck: could you check whether wpa_supplicant works with libnl 3.2.1 as well, please?08:40
horrorStruckjue: sure, i'll try that this evening. looks like the issue with version 2.0 is with network manager only08:41
juehorrorStruck: the whole thing is a bit more complicated than it looks at the first sight. I'd suggest to add a feature request in our bug-tracker including all the links you supplied above08:53
horrorStruckjue: ok, i will08:59
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MrGatz85Hi i'm looking into running a honeypot on top of CRUX i was wonder if any one could point int the right deriction on make proper pkgs out of source11:57
horrorStruckMrGatz85: probably a good place to start:
MrGatz85hopefully when i'm down i'll try to summit a copy of Kippo12:04
horrorStruckthere's a HOWTO on setting up a ports repo in the wiki12:10
MrGatz85thnks yeah i was running MineOsCRUX for a personal server a keep get bombarded so i thought why not try to set a small honeypot to catch every thing but minecraft12:15
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horrorStrucknever heard about this before, another proof of crux awesomeness :P12:19
MrGatz85 there you go12:21
MrGatz85so far i'm liking how simple and stright forward it is12:22
horrorStruckthanks, i saw it already12:22
horrorStruckjue: ^L12:40
juehorrorStruck: thanks :)12:44
horrorStruckyw, one of my fav12:44
jaegerhaha, that's funny12:52
jaegercrux minecraft dist12:52
thrice`who'd have thought :-)12:53
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jaegerwonder if we should have a section on the crux site for other projects using it or based on it13:06
jaeger <-- just found this via google, for example13:08
Rotwangtheir penguin ftw.13:09
jaegerthat is a pretty awesome penguin13:09
jaegerI want to say that nomius sounds familiar13:10
jaeger@seen nomius13:10
clbjaeger: nomius was last seen in #crux 5 weeks, 1 day, 18 hours, and 2 seconds ago: <Nomius> So :-S13:10
Rotwang I have replaced the original Crux kernel with "my" special kernel 3.0.4-exton, with support for "extra everything".13:21
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veemorning everyone :D13:56
veeand how are you doing this fine evening where ever you're from, sir?14:01
veethis was posted on funnyjunk some time ago14:09
veeits pretty funny14:09
veeAin't no party like a Pyongyang party, 'cause a Pyongyang party is ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY14:10
horrorStruckmini short military women with sabers, that pyongyang guy has taste14:15
veecan anyone explain why in the hell anyone would buy a mac?14:37
tilmaninb4 "steve jobs died, let's talk about it"14:39
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veeleave the poor man alone14:59
veethe facebook statuses were more than enough14:59
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Rotwangone of the shittiest guis ever -- vlc15:22
MrGatz85anyboy would be able to get a new port i was able to get pyasn1 to install with justa a Pkgfile file and a link to there sourceforge15:25
MrGatz85*new port hosted on crux15:26
MrGatz85as i'm unable to host it my self15:27
Rotwanghow the FUCK do I open a playlist in, I just created using vlc15:27
Rotwangin vlc*15:27
veei dont have vlc, or else i'd try to help ya15:29
Rotwangok I've found it15:29
veebut i *think* there was a playlist thingie on the15:29
veeoh never mind15:29
Rotwangbut vlc interface isn't friendly at all15:29
veeits weird...15:29
Rotwangit is terrible15:29
Rotwangone things that I miss from windows is winamp15:30
veewinamp was awesome15:30
veeuse itunes xD15:30
Rotwangif you can comprehend basic controls in less than 10 minutes then it is a bad gui15:31
veecan or cant?15:31
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Rotwangsorry, can't15:35
Rotwangmy typing suck today15:35
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Rotwangthere is a vlc tray icon, but if you close vlc window it kills whole vlc15:36
Rotwangso you have to minimize always15:36
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Rotwangit seems you can't have defult playlist, you always have to open your playlist15:39
Rotwangvlc gui is sooooooo shitty15:39
Rotwanglemme try mplayer with gui15:43
Rotwangit won't compile, meh15:52
veemplayer with no gui is meh15:58
veei use it just to watch movies15:58
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jsemplayer is decent.16:06
jseMaybe I'm brain damaged enough to not even notice the need to use the command line. :D16:06
RotwangI use 2.1 sound setup16:11
Rotwangis it possible that sound card hw failed so I can't hear one of my speakers?16:12
RotwangI didn't change anything in alsa configuration16:12
jseEverything is possible.16:12
jseCheck your speakers, test the sound card with other speakers / headphones.16:13
RotwangI've tested speakers, they work fine16:13
RotwangI have no possibility to check sound card16:13
veesound card? im scanning a friends computer as we speak, over 2k viruses, and i JUST started the scan O.o16:14
jsevee: nice. :D16:14
Rotwangvee: is this antivir legit?16:15
RotwangI mean is it trustworthy?16:15
veeavira antivir?16:15
Rotwang2k seems like a lot16:15
veeor the rouge one?16:15
veelol want a picture?16:16
vee"its running slow". yea, not sh*t its running slow xD16:16
veeyou're asking if what im scanning with is legit16:17
frinnstsmplayer is a great ui16:29
frinnstbut requires qt.. would be nicer if it was gtk16:30
* Rotwang compiles16:30
jseToo difficult to set up a few shell aliases and using tab to complete file names? :P16:34
frinnstyes it is when you use your mouse16:35
frinnst.. as a remote16:35
jseMice get in the way.16:36
frinnstoh fuck off16:36
jseChill. That's based on my own experience; not a jab at your preferences.16:37
* Rotwang is sad to conclude that some linux desktop stuffz is ...16:38
Rotwangas we say in my country: 100 years behind the black people16:38
jseNot sure what to blame. Too much chrome and too much user coddling taking place.16:40
jseChrome as in shiny-looking GUIs.16:41
jseSeems odd that things take longer than ever to complete even if there is no shortage of system horsepower.16:42
Rotwang --
enteRotwang: hah16:55
jaegerInstalling a vanilla 2.7 and upgrading it to current ports is a bit of a chore17:04
jseIndeed. No shortage of core components to upgrade.17:05
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jseIt's one thing to try, another to share the, um, gained wisdom(?) with others heh.17:09
jaegerAlready did it today, was curious17:10
jseI hope you're talking about upgrading crux.17:10
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jaegergod damn, is there a single fucking laptop that can properly suspend 100% of the time in linux19:57
jaegerI've yet to use one19:57
jaegerthis time it's a blank screen when trying to resume19:58
thrice`my thinkpad does ok, since a couple of years :(  don't think i've had a suspend failure in years19:59
jaegerwell, that's good at least... it has to work for SOMEONE19:59
jaegerlots of hits on the web searching for this problem with the elitebook 8540p but no solution that works20:00
thrice`you're using pm-suspend ?20:00
* ente checks20:01
entemy eeepc works (s2ram, s2disk), my gf's thinkpad doesn't work with s2ram20:02
entes2disk yet to be tested :P20:03
jaegerI've never seen s2disk work anywhere, not even trying that :P20:03
jaegers2ram works on the suspend on this thing but resuming doesn't20:03
enteworks fine for me20:03
entes2ram sometimes didn't come up, but that was debian's fault20:03
thrice`i thought both were near perfect on all hardware these days :(20:03
jaegerif only20:03
RomsterMrGatz85 i have a honeyd port search in portdb20:04
enteit's all the same with computers20:04
enteproblem with my gf's laptop seems to be the ati graphics20:05
entefortunately, it boots in 10 seconds20:06
thrice`she runs linux?20:06
entewindows didn't even restore from suspend in that time20:06
entenow she does20:06
thrice`mine has a macbook :(20:06
enteshe asked me to remove windows entirely because she couldn't stand it anymore20:07
RomsterRotwang> one things that I miss from windows is winamp <- and winamp works in wine *nowhides*20:16
Romsterthough i'm using gmpc now.20:16
entewhat's wrong with mpd?20:17
enteI don't miss winamp a bit20:17
Romsteri used to but i use gmpc which uses mpd.20:19
Romsteri used to have a ton of plug-ins on winamp.20:20
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veegod forbid you ever fix someones computer21:32
veenightmware just waiting to happen21:32
Romsteri do that every day of the week well except most weekends.21:33
veehow do you make it through the day?21:36
veethe people here are crazy21:36
veei just called because a computer i fixed like 3 weeks ago isn't played youtube videos21:36
Romsteri go insane21:36
veeand its my fault because the besh doesn't know how to update flash21:36
veei face palmed with a hot iron21:37
Romsterit usually updates itself you just press the install button when it pops up.21:37
Romsterbut otherwise get it off filehippo21:37
veeshe didn't do that and its my fault -__________-21:37
veepoor us21:37
Romsterpfft her incompetence.21:37
veeincompetence doesn't even come close21:38
jaegerI never fix computers for people who aren't employed by my employer =)21:38
jaegerIt's not worth it21:38
veeheadache waiting to happen21:38
Romsterlike i get blamed for some other fault that develops after i fix a entirely unrelated problem it's my fault obviously21:38
jaegerIf you touch a computer you own it forever21:38
veei recall i removed all the viruses from some ladies computer, and, warned her that she didn't have an antivirus21:39
Romsteror i can't decypther there cryptic meaning of something. so i can't find the real fault.21:39
veeshe gets hit with one and i get raged on21:39
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veeoh intellegence, why have you neglected so many?21:39
Romsterjust install clamwin21:39
jaegerI used to recommend clamwin, now it's msse21:40
veei dont install anything that im not asked to. or else i'd recieve the WTH is this program?! why did you put it?!21:40
Romsteryeah or security essentials21:40
veeplus, when you install an a/v, they automatically assume it'll catch everything21:40
veeand on the chance that it doesn't, well, fuck you.21:40
Romsterheck i haven't seen one that catches everything.21:40
Romstereven the paid ones.21:40
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veesuicidal thoughts already21:41
Romsteri just tell them the virus is so new that it's not in the anti virus definition yet but i've submitted it for analyses.21:41
entemc a fee21:41
entemakes you pay a fee21:41
veei like eset21:41
veethe blue robot makes it seem legit.21:41
Romsteravira seems nice.21:41
Romsterand seems to catch most things.21:42
veeits nice, but, the free version has those damn adverts21:42
Romsteryeah i hate that side of it.21:42
veeyou gotta remove that file that makes em' pop up21:42
Romsterhmm what file is that?21:42
Romsteri haven't bothered too.21:42
veehold on oen sec21:42
Romsteruse it on the work computer.21:42
Romstersuperantispyware seems to do a better job than spybot i'm hoping the new spybot when ready will take that back21:43
veespybot is terrible21:43
Romsterah pretty obvious name21:43
Romsteryeah tell me about it.21:43
veestick with superantispyware21:43
Romsterit's a shame it is.21:43
veeand, as an on demand scan hitman pro21:43
veeit uses cloud scanning, so you get like 4-5 engines scanning in the cloud21:43
Romsterroot kit hunters i got too.21:43
veeits free to scan, paid to remove21:43
veeits a nice handy tool21:44
veeits tiny21:44
Romstereasy enough to manually remove files.21:44
veeif you're computer literate, of course it is21:44
Romsteri'll look up hitman pro21:44
veeif you want a set to scan, and forget, i got a tool for that too21:44
Romsterin all i hate windows and i'm dreading win8 support21:44
veehaven't even LOOKED at win821:45
Romsterit's ugly.21:45
veethats what everyones saying21:45
Romsterthey removed the start menu21:45
veeso im saving myself the trouble21:45
veepsh. wanna be openbox/pekwm21:45
Romsterpekwm ftw i enjoy the bugs in my linux system than windows.21:45
Romsterat least they slowly get fixed.21:45
veewindows and fixed21:46
veein the same sentence21:46
veeis a joke21:46
Romsterhonestly i think i'll move more to photocopier repairs than computers.21:46
veethe sad truth is, i got so tired of fixing other peoples comps, i wanted a stable on for myself21:46
Romsterfixing everyone else computers kills most of my desire to work on my own.21:47
veecomputer repairs are awesome, when you're working with business owners (IT) that aren't cheap as shit21:47
veewhen you give em' a price, they dont try to haggle you to death21:47
veeand expect you to pay for their fixes21:47
Romsterhow long is it gonna be? what was the problem? how much will it cost?9before i even looked at it)21:48
vee*non cheap*21:49
veesome of my clients are totally chill with it21:49
veethey ask how much, and thats that.21:49
veei <3 them21:49
Romstercan you speed up this 7 year old computer....21:49
vee7 years old?21:49
veesomeone asked me21:49
Romsteryeah p4's we get tons of them21:49
veeto setup their pentium 221:49
veeand set it up as a server21:49
veeto manage 20+ computers21:49
veei was like yea.....21:50
Romsterwell i had a P2 linux server here.21:50
Romsterbut it didn't run alot rp-pppoe apache and a couple of others.21:50
veei've seen some things in my life21:50
Romster20+ comptuers forget that ok maybe as a samba share.21:50
veeand im not even that old21:50
veei told em'21:50
veei can install linux21:50
veeand have one person use it21:50
veeto type shit up21:51
Romsterwill it run x windows game :D... NO21:51
Romsterforget it then21:51
veei remember21:51
veeone client21:51
veewanted to ditch like21:51
vee3 computers21:51
veeand asked21:51
veewhat we should do with them21:52
veewe stripped out all the sellable parts21:52
veeand had the best weekend every21:52
enteI had a p-mmx server a while ago21:52
veewe took sledgehammers, gasoline, lighters, and those powerful firecracker thingies, as well as a few guns21:52
entep2 is already i686, so it could - in theory - run crux21:52
Romstermy p3 got unreliable so i replaced it for a pentium-d21:53
veepersonally, if it isn't pentium 4, im not working on it21:53
Romsterit can i had crux on a p221:53
enteI have crux on a p421:53
veebrave man you are, sir21:53
Romsterpentium-d isn't too bad it's less power used than p4.21:53
veei have crux on a p4 as well21:53
enteit used to be my main desktop, before I upgraded to another p4 :-P21:53
Romsteri had a k7 thunderbird 1.4GHz lol21:54
entemy aim is to never pay money for hardware again21:54
enteRomster: doesn't sound too bad, my old p4 was only 2GHz21:54
veeyou can pay someone else to buy hardware for you. CHEAT THE SYSTEM!21:54
Romsterbut now on a Phenom II 3.4Ghz quad core black edition, haven't bothered to over clockit yet i'll do that at the near end lf life when it's not fast enough.21:54
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entehell, back then you still measured speed in GHz!21:54
Romsterthese days you can't measure in Ghz.21:55
veei still want an i7 6 core 3.4ghz21:55
Romsterand winblows has no reliable way of showing terraflops/bogoflops21:55
veewith 24 gigs of ram21:55
vee5 raid ssd21:55
Romsteri'm waiting for a 12 core i could get a 6 core in place of this 4 core but why bother.21:55
veeand those 3000 dollar nvidia video cards21:56
enteas bogo implies, these are bogus as well21:56
Romster234gigs of ram is over kill i don't even use all of my 821:56
Romstererr 2421:56
entewait for firefox 921:56
Romsteri'm migrating to midori21:56
veemidori is awesome21:56
enteopenoffice 4, then21:56
Romsteri've had enough of firefox21:56
veeexcept, on accasion, i find it to come to a complete hault21:56
veei have no idea why21:57
veeopera is nice too21:57
veeespecially if you disable all the crap21:57
veeand give it some minor tweaks21:57
veeits really fast21:57
Romsteryeah opera is ok but i'm not fond of closed source21:57
enteI'm using opera on my netbook, and firefox on my desktop21:57
veeor was it uzbl21:57
veei dont remember21:57
veeTHAT OEN21:57
veeits awesome21:58
enteactually, all browsers suck21:58
enteby design21:58
Romsteruzbl is nice too.21:58
enteanything interfacing with the web has to suck by definition21:58
Romstereven curl :P21:58
enteeven curl, but for other reasons21:59
veehaven't tried curl O.o21:59
veecurrently rolling with chromium21:59
enteit's not a browser21:59
Romsteryou kidden curl includes the kitchen sink22:00
Romsterit's a download agent.22:00
Romsterfar better than wget22:00
entenot only download22:00
entecurl has a nasty bug that prevents it from POSTing fields containing ,22:00
veequick side note. is still down O.o22:00
Romsterit can upload too22:00
entewhich is nasty when you use curl to paste to pastebins22:00
Romsterente, oh i haven't tried posting.22:00
enteand try to paste an RCS file, because they are called foo,v22:00
enteoh, wait, not POST, rather URL parameters or something22:00
Romsterwhat do you mean the main page is there.22:01
Romsterjust all the other mdadm git udev stuff is misisng.22:01
entethere was a problem, at least22:01
Romsterente, i'd be keen on this bug if you can reproduce it.22:01
veedownload stuff from there fails22:01
Romsterah crap the links are dead....22:02
Romsterwell that's bloody smart.22:02
enteRomster: I can22:02
Romsteri'd be keen to disect the issue i've dug into curl a few times.22:02
ente <- try the fb client22:03
ente(in a version that still uses curl rather than a binary substitute to circumvent the bug)22:03
veewell, before i go on my long, luxurious walk, just wanted to let you know, when trying to install xfce, it tries to connect to the ftp at kernel.org22:04
Romsteroh you dick pvmove moved my LV thaty's in 3 segments and put the middle segment first on the disk i moved it too... now for more pvmove to move that around.22:04
veethe gudev file thingie22:04
veebe back in a bit22:04
Romsteryeah you need to use some mirror for the time being.22:05
Romsteri'm thinking of the best option for distfiles would be to torrent them.22:05
enteRomster: try pasting a filename containing a , with the fb client, and you'll see that curl will fail22:09
enteit might be circumvented by passing the filename via a tempfile or stdin22:09
Romsterafter i sort out my lv.22:09
Romsterhave you done it in quotes?22:10
enteactually, I wonder how we did this the last time22:12
enteit can't open files containing ,22:12
entetouch foo,bar; curl -F 'moo=@foo,bar' will fail22:13
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entetouch foo,bar; curl -F 'moo=<foo,bar' will work, but the contents of foo,bar must not be binary22:14
entefb allows pasting binary files22:14
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entewe fixed this by reading the file from stdin22:20
Romsterparsing of options getting in the way.22:24
Romsterthat happens on current curl in crux ports?22:24
enteupstream responded with WONTFIX when we reported a bug22:25
enteat least that's what I was told22:25
Romsterwell wont stop me hacking at it.22:29
Romsterstupid LV is in segments 2 1 3 -_-22:30
Romsteri thought the allocation policy would put it in the correct order22:30
Romsterso i didn't bother to worry about the order.22:31
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Romsterits' like tetris move blocks around.22:32
Romsterin this case extents.22:32
entegood night :)22:34
enteoh shit22:34
enteit's 5:34 o.O22:34
veeim back, not that i was missed or anything xD22:53
veewhy thank you. would you like some foods?23:01
Romsternah not really hungry unless it food for thought.23:02
veehow many languages do you speak?23:03
Romsteronly english and not that good at that even due to my grammar and being dyslexic23:04
Romsteri'm certain my sentences would give someone a headache.23:05
veeyour english is fine23:05
veethere are people who, by the work of the gods, speak nothing close to english23:05
veelike today23:05
veei went to the store23:05
Romsteri sometimes swap a completely different word than the one i intended to use.23:05
veetrust me23:06
veethats fine23:06
veei went to the store23:06
veeand this girl says23:06
veewell no23:06
veei tried to start up a conversation23:06
veeand said23:06
vee"oh, it seems you guys are really busy"23:06
veeshe responded with23:06
veeoh you should've come latered it was really busy back then23:06
veei was like oh23:06
veethen she told me it was a disastery that they didn't bringded enough people23:07
Romsterlatered busy back then later being future and back then being past, does not compute.23:07
veeamen brother23:07
veei sat there thinking23:07
veebut i got my food so i dont really care23:07
Romsterdisaster for not enough people ok too many now not enough...23:08
veei hate how people dont even attempt to master the language they speak23:08
veegranted, completely mastering a language is more or less impossible23:08
Romsteri think she meant earlier than latered23:08
veelol i know thats what she meant23:08
veebut still....23:09
Romsteri've been told english is the hardest to learn.23:09
veethats a lie23:09
Romsteri've looked at kanja and i'm like you say english is hard.23:09
veei moved her when i was 423:09
jaegerIt isn't the hardest but it's one of the worst for exceptions to rules23:09
veeby here, i mean america23:09
veei didn't know how to read and write in my native language23:10
Romstersilent letters used to get me pronouncing words wrong.23:10
veehowever, i was able to pick up english and write far better than my native language23:10
veethe thing i love about my alphabet is we have a letter for everything23:10
veeso you dont have to go around guessing wtf you need to put23:10
veeinstead of the ch, we have a letter23:10
veeinstead of an sh23:10
veewe have a letter23:10
jaegera perfect example of a dumb thing about english is "should of" and "would of", etc.23:11
Romsterthan the meany meanings that depend on the context.23:11
jaegerI understand how people think that those are correct based on how they sound but they aren't23:11
veeshould of23:11
jaeger"should have", "would have"23:11
Romsterwould is like i would of done this but i didn't.... should implies it really meant to be done being important but it didn't get done.23:11
jaegerEvery australian or british person I know does that23:11
jaegerright there =D23:11
Romsterbut teach that to everyone else.23:12
Romsteri even use those phrases too.23:12
veethe thing about language, i believe, is that one has to be meticulous in how you chose your words, otherwise, it could have a different meaning entirely23:12
Romstersometimes my meanings are wrong <<23:13
veeas is the case with a lot of people23:13
Romsterit's called a pun23:13
Romsterwhen it has multiple meanings.23:13
veesometimes, when someone says something, i take the literal meaning, and thats not what they meant23:13
Romstermost see the dirty side to it.23:13
veeits ridiculous23:13
veei have a friend who moved here23:14
veeand was able to pick up both english23:14
veeand spanish23:14
veewithin a few years23:14
veesmart guy, but he says having a language prior to english really helps23:14
Romstertake customers for example they can't explain if their life depended on it.23:14
veehey man. some of my customers i dont consider to be human23:15
veeexample: guy calls me, says i need this, this this this and this.23:15
veei was like okay23:15
veeyour total is blah23:15
veehis responce?23:15
Romsteri'm talking about the majority though, to be fair there is some that are smart.23:15
veeoh, i forgot to mention, i dont have money23:15
Romsterbut few of those.23:15
veesomehow i turned into a charity service23:15
veebut yes, occasionally you do get those that know a thing or two23:15
Romsterkeep the machine until he pays23:16
veeand it makes your troubleshooting 8493795 times easier23:16
Romsterthen you get the "they think they know it" types.23:16
veeoh god.23:16
veesir, your hard drive is dead23:16
veeNO ITS NOT23:16
veebecause, i have a virus23:16
veesir, do you hear that ticking?23:17
veedo you know what that is?23:17
veewhat is it?23:17
Romsteroh a few can tell me what they think it is and there pretty much on the right track the rest are like the hard disk is faulty... that's the bloody computer not the harddisk.23:17
veea virus23:17
veethats the conversation i had with a customer23:17
Romsteryeah why is it they say a virus for every fault inmaginable.23:17
veebecause the bible says so... xD23:17
veei dont know23:18
veesome customers you get though, make it worth it23:18
veethere was a couple who just came to america23:18
veehad barely any money23:18
veeand they were running a p223:18
Romsteri swear i get at least one a day BOFH.23:18
veei sold them a dell with 512 ram, 2.x ghz processor23:18
veeand what not23:18
veefor only 100 bucks23:18
veewhich over here, at least, is un heard of23:19
veebut to me23:19
Romsteri can understand those that can't afford it. like pensioners.23:19
veeno no23:19
veethose people have it better than these guys23:19
veethe next time i went, i charged them 30 bucks23:19
veefor something i'd charge23:19
vee70 for regularly for23:19
veebut they gave me 5023:19
veeand it made me feel23:19
veerespected isn't a strong enough word23:19
veeawknowledged i guess23:20
veeand those customers i adore23:20
veei haven't charged them since23:20
Romstera little advice don't use enter as punctuation so much.23:20
veeeven though they forcefully give me money23:20
veeits they way i type. we all have our faults23:20
veeforce of habbit as well23:20
Romsteri got a few favorites, that i'll do cheaply but no one else, as they either help me out or are really nice people.23:21
veeheres an interesting topic23:21
veewhats your idea of truth23:22
Romstertruth of what?23:22
veetruth i guess23:22
veein general23:22
veedo you believe truth exists?23:22
Romsterwell i don't like incorrect information.23:23
veewell, is there anything such as correct information?23:24
Romsterbut i really don't understand truth unless it's given more context as it has multiple meanings.23:24
Romsternot really maybe more accurate.23:24
veewell, what in your opinion is a known truth?23:25
Romsterthat the majority of the worlds population is stupid beyond disbelief, and if it was a lack of education then why don't they teach them self after leaving school uni etc.23:26
veebut touching on stupidity would imply that knowledge exists, and, if thats the case, what is knowledge? and how do you know that it exists?23:27
Romsteri did have a pretty good education at school but my disability forced me to miss out on a lot too, but then i did further education courses and i've always self taught myself anything i was interested in. now why the hell can't the majority of the rest of the population that haven't got major disabilities not learn.23:27
Romsteri put it down to being far too damn lazy23:27
Romsterif i can do it with disabilities surely most of the others can too.23:28
veecant agree more, but, we're going to be touching a bit of a philosphical subject23:28
Romstermost lack the basics common sense.23:28
veehow do you know all the knowledge you've attained is correct?23:28
Romsteri don't..23:28
veeso then you dont have knowledge23:28
Romsteri make mistakes i learn from them23:28
veehow do you know you're learning the correct thing?23:29
Romsteri improve... i find something that i thought was correct which isn't so i relearn that.23:29
Romsteri don't i make educated guesses based on logic and experience.23:29
veelets say you relearn what you think is correct, do you have any certainty that it is correct23:30
Romsteranother thing the majority lacks.23:30
veeis anything correct for that matter?23:30
Romsteri'll put more weight against it being correct if the evidence is reliable and the logic is sound.23:30
veebut what sounds logical isn't always correct, assuming anything is correct at all23:31
Romsterand if the source was a person, then if that person has been doing such a topic for many years then that has got to mean more weight than the average joe blow.23:31
Romsterwell we can't be perfect...23:31
Romsterbut look what i can do compared to others.23:32
veeyou and everyone else aside23:32
Romsteri didn't know much of the inner workings until prologic helped me in crux.23:32
Romsternow look what i can do and i'm still teaching myself more.23:32
veewhat im trying to understand is your take on the question is there such thing as truth and knowledge23:32
Romsterknowledge is wisdom and that comes over time.23:33
Romsterbut being active not jsut sitting on ones arse doing nothing.23:33
veeyou should read plato's the apology23:33
veethere is a part in it, whe goes around asking all the people who call them selves wise, and finds out they are not wise at all23:33
veewisdom, he says, is knowing you know nothing23:34
Romstereveryones brainw orks differently i have a far different working than the majority due to the issu'es iv'e had in the past, which lets me see some things in more detail and others in less detail.23:34
veehe considers himself only just a tad bit more wise than anyone else, simply for the fact that he knows nothing23:34
Romsterwell if you think you know it all you never learn either.23:34
Romsteri try to keep a open mind and take on new knowledge.23:35
veesocrates was, in our modern times, considered to be wise23:35
veebut he himself said i am not23:35
veewell not was, but is23:35
Romsterit's how others perceive a person too.23:35
veebut i think it ultimately comes down to the fact that23:36
veewe can never really know anything for sure23:36
Romstertosome dumb person said person is smart to some smarter person would say that said person is intelligent but lacking more depth.23:36
Romsterlife is guess work.23:36
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Romsterwhy do we even exist <<23:36
veethats too metaphysical for this particular conversation xD23:37
Romsterwhy do i feel compelled to better myself all the time.23:37
veesince nothing we know is for sure, and since all we know could, in fact, be "fake", knowledge does not exist23:37
veenothing is for sure, and because of that, truth cannot exist23:37
veeand since knowledge doesn't exist, stupid people have an excuse xD23:37
Romsteri disagree23:38
Romsterbut that's my opinion.23:38
veeoh? what reasoning do you have?23:38
Romsteri wont go into it...23:38
veei hope you dont mind me playing devils advocate. i do enjoy having intellectual conversations23:39
veethere is one philosopher, forgot the buggers name, but, he basically said there is nothing outside the mind23:40
Romsteri can overload most minds with too much knowledge that the majority can't understand which is why i hang out on irc so damn much, the smart ones are on freenode.23:40
veethat everything you experience is not as it is23:40
veeis the outcome of the stimulation your mind recieves from it23:40
Romsterwhos not to say we are part of the matrix23:40
veeif we are in the so called "matrix", then everything here is fake23:41
Romsteror men in black a world on a cats collar23:41
veethe fact that its a "maybe"23:41
veemeans that its possible23:41
Romsterspace is so infinity there has to be a limit somewhere.23:41
veeif it is possible, then you dont know for sure this is what it is23:41
veethat statement is invalid23:41
veeyou cant have a limit on something limitless23:42
Romsternothing is ever infinity. jsut really large numbers23:42
veethat wouldn't make it limitless, but limited23:42
Romsterhurts my mind to think of the universe and thread theory23:43
veei should let you know, im a bit dyslexic myself23:43
Romsteri have left and right side issues with coordination, i write/type out of sequence.23:44
veeso i sort of understand where you're coming from23:44
veemy mind replaces words when i read something at times23:44
Romsteri find it very frustrating when i can do something that others find easy23:44
Romsteri do that all the time. which is why i re-read a few times to extract what i need.23:45
veewe all have our challenges to over come23:45
Romsteri can't pronounce complex words yet i know most of the long words.23:45
veeat least you take them head on23:45
Romsteri do, do that i play darts, tabble tennis and improve my coordination, i try to learn how to deal/cope with my disability's and turn them into a strength.23:46
veemore power to you23:46
Romsteroh and i get major mood swings to deal with far worse than a woman does.23:46
veei hate people who use their disabilities as an excuse23:46
veesay what you will about your mood swings23:46
Romsterand i guess i like praise being a ego maniac23:46
veethere is nothing scarier than a woman, holding a gun, while on her cycle23:47
Romster i know it's only a silly questionnaire but it holds some truth23:47
Romsteroh i'm not that unstable.23:47
Romsteri can be like happy content then later that much depression you don't wanna go there.23:48
Romsteri am friendly unless stirred the wrong way.23:48
veewell, i dont mean to bring it up, but i recall how you found me irratating because i pm'd you. not gunna lie, got a bit hurt then :`(23:48
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Romsterand i have a pretty long fuse to being angry, but i am really scared if i ever let myself fully off the leash just what i could do to someone that pissed me off majorly, and i mean not just a freak occurrence but constant annoying weeks, months of it.23:49
Romsteri could snap under those and i got bullied a tlot at school as a child23:50
Romstera lot*23:50
veeif you came to school with me23:50
veethings would be soo different23:50
veei use to fight with bullies ALL THE TIME23:50
veeand not because they ticked me off, but because they picked on people23:51
Romsterand was a teachers pet due to my stupid disabilities and i understood stuff better like the welding class i was the one to grab the key and turn on the gas and set the regulator if i went over 100PSI on the sectaline kaboom -_-23:51
Romsterheck i worked on 240 volts at that school teacher trusted me i knew more than he did and he was a ex electrician.23:51
Romsteri've had one hell of a childhood.23:52
Romsterand i got bullied outside of school...23:52
Romsteri threw a brick at a door up the road to me one day when i was like 12 years old.23:53
veei remember middle school, some guy made funny of me because i was slightly underweight. i fought him, and his 4 buddies23:53
Romsterthe prick that lived there would not leave me alone.23:53
Romsterso i started to threaten him leave me alone or else.23:53
Romsterhe cried to his parents...23:54
veewhat i would suggest, is you find some kind of physical vent. a sport or activity that gets you moving. helped me out a lot23:54
Romsteri play sport to vent my anger.23:54
Romsteri used to bottle it up but that made me even more moody23:54
Romsteri'm a nice guy i just hate being rubbed the wrong way.23:55
Romstereveryone gets free credits, those that are nice gain more... those that are pricks lose them when they run out i don't want to see them ever again.23:56
Romsteri think it's fair.23:56
veeindeed it is23:57
veeim going to take that test23:57
veelet me get back to you in a sec23:57
veeits pretty interesting23:57
Romstersome customer tried to put words in my mouth when i explained a computer issue the customer has and he goes i know that, so i said why even ask then? then he has a go at me for being smart..... i told him get out of the shop now23:57

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