IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2012-01-01

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veeanother quick question. how come linux is showing i have only 823 or so mb of total memory available, when in fact, i have 2 gigs?00:51
Romsterfree -m00:56
Romsterit's still available but being used for buffering which can shrink should a program demand the ram.00:57
Romsterthis is the main reason if a computer has faulty ram it will show up a lot sooner in linux than in windows, since windows likes to avoid ram like the plague ad swap everything to disk, while linux will try to aviod swap as far as possible.00:59
Romstervee, you have tons to learn.00:59
veei feel so ashamed. i mean, i know if the ram was faulty, it wouldn't show up in the bios, and i know at times it wont even boot, but, everything seems to be fine here. thanks :)01:02
Romsternot necessary01:09
Romsterram can be faulty and it may not even show up for over a days worth of testing with memtest86+01:09
Romsterusually wont boot is dirty ram/video connections01:10
Romsterif it's a oldr computer.01:10
veehm. from my experiences, if its faulty ram, it comes up pretty quickly in memtest...meh. 1 gig should suffice crux till i get me a new stick01:12
veebut that might be because they were extremely mucked up01:13
Romsterit usually does but i've had a few that take longer to show.01:14
veewhile we're on the subject of ram...01:15
veecan 32 bit linux handle more than 4 gigs of ram?01:15
Romsterand i've seen cases where a error in one ram module would not show up due to a error in the other ram module or timing issues from two dissimilar ram modules latency's in dual/triple channel.01:15
Romsterbest to test 1 ram module at a time in the system.01:16
Romsteryou can if you turn on PAE in your kernel.01:16
Romsterthough the overhead does slow down the ram to some extent.01:16
Romsteror you can use a 64bit kernel with 32bit userland01:16
Romsteror you can do what a few of us are doing and use multilib crux01:17
Romsterthat's if you need 32bit for anything.01:17
Romsterif not just go get the 64bit crux iso and use that.01:17
Romsterunless your CPU does not support 64bit then your only option is PAE.01:18
veewell, its not so much for me, but my girlfriend. i showed her compiz, and she wanted it. i installed the 64 bit version (of arch), but, it was having weird issues, so i swapped over to 32 bit, and everything seemed to function perfectly...however, i believe she has 6 gigs of ram on her laptop, and only 3 were showing01:19
Romsteryeah turn on PAE build kernel install run lilo if your using lio reboot problem solved.01:25
Romsterso why the heck are you asking here when it's arch01:26
veewill look into that once i get my hands on the computer. thanks romster01:26
veeso how has life been treating you?01:28
Romsterthe same as any other day really, though today i've found a bunch of the issues i'm having in multilib.01:29
veehope you get that solved O.O01:31
Romsteroh i should since i've tracked down the source of the problem.01:31
Romsterneed to know the innards of how nerly everything works in GNU linux.01:32
Romsteri'm off to a bbq later.01:32
veeyum. im doing bbq as well...feel free to join01:32
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: thunderbird: 8.0 -> 9.0.114:01
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: pidgin: 2.10 -> 2.10.114:12
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veeso, who is hung over?15:44
jaegerNot I15:46
Rotwangme neither15:47
Rotwangwhat makes me angry is that tomorrow is regular work day15:47
jseMonday. :(15:48
veedid you guys drink at all?15:50
jaegerI did not. I don't drink often15:50
jseHad wine with dinner. Being drunk / hungover sucks. :p15:53
enteI slept all day15:54
veeaww, well, if you ever come down here jaeger, ill drown you in wine. me and the dad finished the bottle of vodka...15:55
veeno hang over either15:55
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jaegervee: you probably need HIGHMEM4G or whatever it's called in your kernel config16:11
jaegera 32-bit OS will not be able to use more than 4G RAM without PAE, or even all of 4G due to hardware memory mapping16:11
jaegerPAE has its own problems and overhead and is not worth using for the tiny benefit of seeing more available RAM16:11
veehm. will look into that one as well. i was thinking, since the other 3 gigs isn't in use, would it be possible to use it for preload?16:13
veeor would that highmem4g need to be put into the kernel first16:15
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crshdhappy new one everybody19:52
jaegerand to you19:53
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Romstermonday (today here in australia) is a holliday20:28
Romstertuesday is when everyone goes back to work.20:28
Romsterunless it's different in your country20:28
jaegerdepends on the company... it's mostly a holiday here20:30
jaegerI'm going to do some maintenance tomorrow since nobody will be working20:31
jaegervmware upgrades, woo20:31
joe9tilman: Just wanted to check if there was any reason why you are not bumping zsh from 4.3.12 to 4.3.15?20:33
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crshdtoday's a holiday in malaysia, too20:36
crshdlazy people here...20:36
joe9tilman, I just installed it and it seems to install fine. Just bumped the version from .12 to .15 in the Pkgfile20:37
crshdin germany, if a holiday falls on a weekend, you just have to suck it, you don't get an additional off day20:37
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garmeheya guys20:52
garmewhats up?20:52
garmeguys... does crux use rolling update?20:55
jaegermostly, though large toolchain updates get a release20:55
crshdthat's basically the only thing that's somewhat bugging me about crux...20:56
* crshd is a big fan of rolling20:56
thrice`what more should get updated in crux?20:57
garmeso... if I got an year without updates.. I have to install a new version?20:57
jaegerIt wouldn't be required but it might be less work20:58
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jaegerI wouldn't recommend going a year without updates on ANY system20:59
thrice`or download the latest iso, and update from its packages20:59
crshdif you don't update a real rolling distro in a year, you're gonna have problems, too20:59
jaegerThat's an invitation to problems20:59
crshdcheck the arch forums, there's a bunch of "i haven't updated in x months, and now stuff's broken all over the place" threads :D21:00
garmeguys, I never used crux... but I'm interested.21:01
crshddo it!21:02
garmeSo... what's the big deal of crux?21:02
Romsterjoe9, tilman is just being lazy guess real life is taking his time away from crux.21:02
jaegertry it in a VM if you can, then if you don't like it you've lost nothing but time21:02
crshdi'm just a sucker for simple, non-bloated, hands-on distros, that's why i like crux so much21:03
garmejaeger, I'll do it. :)21:03
Romstergarme, simplicity wont get in your way21:03
Romstercrshd, that's a shame if a public holliday falls on a weekend we get the monday off instead as in this case.21:04
garmeRomster, I'm a slackware user... for a long date. And I used sometimes the cruxports4slackware scripts. ;)21:04
veecrux is awesome, except sometimes, compiling things can take a while, especially on older hardware...but no complaints here21:05
rmullOne of the problems with any source-based distro21:06
veeyup yup21:06
rmullI like crux a lot21:07
veethe best part about crux is all the unecessary crap is taken out. its soo snappy ^___^21:07
garmeThe problem with slackware... is the slackware users.21:08
rmullcrux community is really small21:08
crshdmost things compile fast enough on my 3-year old laptop21:08
crshdexcept things like webkit and qt4 *shudder*21:08
jaegeryou can also build on a fast machine if you have access to one, then install on the slower ones21:08
Romsterccache does help after the first compile vee21:08
Romsterand compile in tmpfs if you got a couple of gigs of ram.21:09
Romsteri did that on a old 1.4GHz cpu21:09
veethis time around, compiling chromium took 4 hours.21:09
veeor was it 5...i dont remember21:09
garmeguys.. but have I to compile all that I want install?21:10
crshdRomster: tmpfs is a good idea... i have so much unused ram. can't believe i forgot about that21:11
crshdthanks for reminding me :D21:11
jaegerWell, that's pretty much a given when you talk about source-based distributions :)21:11
thrice`garme, it's a source based distro, sure :>21:11
garmethrice`, :D21:11
crshdthat's the whole point of using source based...21:11
veeexcept the stuff thats on the iso already...but, then again, you might have to update it21:11
veewill have to check out that tmpfs thingie. seems like it'll be a life saver on my end xD21:12
jaegerIf you build in tmpfs you can take -pipe out of your CFLAGS21:12
veei have no idea what the whole tmpfs thing is, let alone the -pipe. still have to google it xD21:13
veeoh jaeger, today we went on a canyon run...there was an r34 trailing me...drool!21:13
Romstererr i meant crshd sorry
Romstercrshd, even on my old pc with only 1GB ram it was faster when i had two disks with swap on each set to the same prio=0 in fstab21:14
jaegerwebkit's sure taking a while to build on one of my test installs21:15
Romster-pipe in tmpsfs only wastes a few seconds and a ton of ports set that in there files themselves jaeger21:16
Romsterso alot of ports would need that sed-ed out.21:16
jaegerIt's not a requirement21:16
jaegerI said "can", not "need to"21:16
Romsterconclusion not worth the effort. though i do agree ports should not force -pipe and it should be on the system flags in pkgmk.conf for those that don't use tmpfs21:17
jaegeras much time as you spend compiling and with all your effort to use ccache I'm really surprised by your answer, heh21:17
Romsterit's a few seconds ccache saves minutes.21:18
jaegereh, whatever, forget I mentioned it21:18
Romsteri'm not arguing just saying effort vs benefit.21:19
Romsterfrom my experience.21:19
Romsternot saying not to do it either.21:19
Romsteri think i got the issue in qt4 sorted for compiling it when it's not installed on the system already21:21
Romsterit's still compiling now21:21
Romsterand it's not just me there is a bug report on the qt site.21:21
veei always found it interesting how crux is on the d-l. its gentoo'ish, and all the linux supremists drool over that distro...not sure why crux isn't that popular21:23
Romsterno idea really21:23
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veemaybe i should spread the word xD21:24
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Romsteri've been trying that too vee21:25
crshdi tried gentoo and didn't like it that much, actually21:26
veehm...maybe we could create blogs and write about how awesome it is xD21:27
veehow did you guys stumble upon crux?21:27
jaegerheard about it from a friend. I was a gentoo user back then21:29
jaegerstill occasionally use it21:29
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rmulluploaded kicad to the rmull repo if you guys want to try it21:35
Romsterit's like 40C outside today21:42
crshdyeah, damn hot here, too21:50
crshdhottest season of the year is coming21:50
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Romsterqt4 compiled while it was not installed on my system.21:55
RomsterLD_LIBRARY_PATH="$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:$SRC/qt-everywhere-opensource-src-$version/lib" make21:55
Romsterelse it complains about missing
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crshdqt4 from opt compiled just fine for me without having to do anything...21:57
crshdexcept for waiting21:57
Romsterprovided it's already installed.21:57
crshdnope, it wasn't...21:58
Romsterpkgrm it then try it21:58
Romsteroh i am getting sick of this why do i have so much trouble and no one else does.21:58
Romsteri am on multilib though21:58
crshdeh... pure 64 here22:00
Romstertime to start setting up 3 virtualsboxes i686 64bit pure and multilib for testing.22:01
jaegerI'd probably go crazy without virtualization22:04
Romsteri can see where it has an advantage22:06
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Romstermy luck virtualbox wont compile D22:46
RomsterkBuild: Installing VirtualBox => /usr/ports/work/virtualbox/src/VirtualBox-4.1.4_OSE/out/linux.amd64/release/bin/VirtualBox22:46
Romster+ cd out/linux.x86/release/bin/src22:46
RomsterPkgfile: line 39: cd: out/linux.x86/release/bin/src: No such file or directory22:46
Romsterguess i'll use virtualbox-bin for the time being.22:48
jaegerI would guess that virtualbox error is as simple as changing linux.x86 to linux.amd64 but I have not tried it myself. I use the binary version23:07
Romsterjaeger, what disk image do you use VDI or you using one of the other settings?23:18
Romsteri didnd't want to mess around with vbox i barely know how it works, i may try that later.23:18
Romsteri can grow a disk later if i find it's too small?23:24
Romstereffort to set them all up but it only has to be done once23:29
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Romsternow i need to lean how networking works. and if i need to setup a tun0 device23:33
Romsterhmm NAT perhaps it'll just work as is.23:34

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