IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2012-01-06

v33anyone ever tried assembling bare bones laptops?00:03
Romsteri can dismantle a laptop and reassemble it, but building one from parts?00:29
Romsterwould cost more than a assembled one.00:30
v33well, sometimes they have laptops with a processor, battery,and an adapter for 300 or so. if you have a spare hard drive and what not, you can put it together and yea00:41
Romsteroh just ram and hdd?00:41
Romstertoo easy00:41
v33yea, basically...sometimes those little buggers go on sale, and was wondering if anyone every built a laptop that way00:42
Romsternot really building much just installing a hdd and ram and whatever.00:42
v33i guess...00:42
Romsteri don't know anyone that would sell one incomplete.00:42
Romsterno consumers i know of are that smart.00:43
v33some companies do....small companies00:43
Romsterand how do you get the OS? as that's on the hdd thesedays no more optical media you have to make your own set or use a flash drive for the OS backup.00:44
Romsteror you don't get anything with it at all.00:44
v33you pretty much get nothing with it...though, if you plan on using linux, you wouldn't really need it00:45
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Romsterthat's if all the hardware is supported, you can't change parts like in a desktop pc.00:52
Romsterwell nearly all parts arn't changeable the bluetooth and wifi is.00:52
v33true...but, more often than not, the stuff that goes inside is pretty common stuff00:58
Romsternow it is few years ago it was sketchy.00:59
v33meh. just always wondered why building pc's is so common, but not desktops01:00
Romsteryou can make a desktop do nearly anything but notebooks your limited01:01
v33still, i feel like there should be the option regardless...01:02
v33meh, time to fix the laptop i have. looks like the video card is bad :/01:02
Romsterthat's inbuilt ont he motherboard good luck fixing that.01:05
v33well, there are ways to do it ;)01:05
Romsteronly if the LCD screen is faulty, can be fixed.01:05
Romsteryeah new $500 mother board.01:05
v33not even...01:05
v33its usually a shoot and miss type of deal, but, what i do is heat up the video card with a heat gun01:06
v33and once its really warm, i putt a bit of weight on it01:06
v33to seat it01:06
v33hit and miss, but, you'd be surprised how often it works...01:06
Romsterunless your a pro at desoldering multipin chips and can get another.01:06
Romsteri wouldn't think it'll be reliable.01:06
v33it does decent, as long as you make sure it never over heats again01:07
Romsterbut worth a try if it works or not not gonna lose anything.01:07
v33otherwise,  it'll do the same thing01:07
v33i usually tell the person its a 50/50. either you get a new computer, or, give it a try01:07
Romstersome times it's bad thermal paste on the heatpipe heatsink01:07
v33i had one dude come in01:07
v33the computer was practically new01:08
v33but it had the same issue01:08
v33the thermal paste they put is really crappy01:08
v33artic silver!01:08
Romstersome you can fix underneath others you have to pull the keyboard out and top cover to get to it.01:08
v33yep yep. though, i will say this. props to dell, because now, all you have to do to their computers is unscrew the stuff on the bottom, and you have access to pretty much everything, including the fan/heat sink01:10
Romsteri use artic silver on everything but them notebok chips with caps/resistors so close to the die i use the normal white heatsink compound. don't want to risk a short circuit from the metal silver flakes.01:10
v33i believe its non conductive01:10
v33though i have artic silver 501:10
v33did you catch the message i left here? it was on sale for 3 bucks lol01:10
Romsteryeah i got artic silver 501:11
Romsterthat is conductive.01:11
v33as5 is, mx-2 isn't :)01:11
Romsteryeah i saw01:11
v33pretty decent deal...frys sells em' for 15 bucks here01:11
Romsterhmm mx-2 be handy for notebook use then.01:11
v33yep yep.01:11
v33i always wondered, whats the weird pad thingie thats usually under the gpu?01:12
Romstersome thermal pad.01:12
v33is it not better to put thermal paste under that?01:12
Romsterlike the preapplied pad on some CPU heatsinks01:12
v33i've noticed the ones with those pads usually idle around 68d01:12
Romsteri clean the pad off the GPU and CPU and use paste i only leave the pad on a north bridge if it's heatsinked too with some paste over it if it's a bit damaged.01:13
Romsteras those don't get that hot.01:13
Romsteryeah them pads are pretty crap for heat dissipation01:14
Romsterbut newer cpus run cooler than the older ones do.01:14
v33i recall i spoke with some "technician" who didn't know all too much about comptuers, and he told me those were far better than thermal paste01:14
Romsterheck on01:14
v33he refused to conduct a test01:14
Romsterthere only faster for assembly.01:14
v33i even offered the thermal paste01:14
Romsterand less messy01:14
v33yea...this dude is the worst technician i've ever met01:15
v33he actually called me to clean up his mess xD01:15
v33do you fix computers for a living?01:15
Romsterthermal pads are ok for stuff that wont get that hot01:15
Romsteri do yes01:15
v33ah, same here... :)01:15
v33even though i hate people who try to teach me some thing that doesn't really make sense01:16
v33did i ever tell you about the spybot s&d guy?01:16
v33xD he was trying to convince me that it was the best possible solution. greatest fml moment ever01:17
Romsteri thnk you did but i can't recall the conversation past that01:18
v33apperently, they use that in airport security01:19
Romsterwhile i think spybot isn't too bad it isn't optimal for the inexperienced, and it's not the only tool in the kit to be using too.01:19
Romsternearly all the machines i see with spybot installed have never updated the definitions for it.01:19
Romsteronly a small number do.01:20
v33quick question. how do you fix your computers?01:21
v33in other words, how do you clean out the viruses?01:22
Romsterdepends what it is, you used combofix?02:05
Romsterhirens cd with avira02:05
Romsterroot kit scanners02:05
Romster syas the mx-2 is a bit better than the 5.02:13
v33yea, by a bit...02:18
v33but for you, i'd say the most important thing is that it isn't conductive02:18
v33while combofix is pretty good, its not in my toolkit. i actually have just one...though it does a big list of stuff02:18
Romstersome quote i spotted "You do realize that in the world of high end compounds, how well you apply it makes a huge difference over which brand of peanut butter you're using. "02:19
v33haha yea02:19
Romstersuperantispyware is another instead of spybot i don't use spybot much now.02:19
v33well, the tool i use pretty much fixes the file assosiations, scans with mbam and super antispyware, and cleans out all the temp files and what not02:21
Romstermust give that guy credit for making spybot and he is working on a newer version.02:21
Romsterand the guy that does combofix must be on crack he updates it pretty much every day02:21
Romstergot mbam too.02:22
v33yep. that, and all you'd need to do is02:22
Romsterccleaner cleans out temp stuff and invalid registery enteries.02:22
v33scan again with kaspersky virus removal tool02:22
v33yea, but the best part about the program i use , is its all automaded02:22
Romsteryeah use that too.02:22
Romsterwhat's the tool or your not allowed to say.02:23
Romsteri have a automated uninstaller for every notebook to remove junk too.02:23
v33read the scripts, and it'll make your life so much easier02:23
v33if you want, i can send you my pretty much cleans out all the junk, then fixes file assosiations, and then scans with mbam and sas02:24
RomsterUVK portable hmm that should be put on the hriens cd02:25
Romstersure v33 you can find my email in many of the ports in contrib02:26
v33probably wont be, because it actually installs something02:26
Romstereven the portable?02:26
v33yup. it needs to install, so it can apperently run mbam and update it02:26
Romsterportable = stand alone running.02:26
v33yea i know...but, still02:26
v33i just use it because02:26
Romsterwell hirens has a ram file system.02:27
v33sometimes, with viruses, file assosiation is messed up,and it wont allow launching of .exe's02:27
Romsteroh i use a reg file to fix those.02:27
v33i do too, but lately, its been hard to run it since the file assosiation for regedit is a .exe, and isn't able to run it02:27
Romsterhmm catch 22 i haven't hit that.02:28
v33i have...and its freaking annoying02:29
v33btu regardless, its an awesome tool to have, since you can create a script and make it all automated02:29
Romsteryeah sounds cool.02:30
v33its not bad02:30
v33give me one sec02:30
Romsteralways on the hunt for other tools02:30
v33let me find my usb drive, so i can send the script02:30
Romsterno rush i got another week of hollidays yet02:31
Romsterwonder how they are coping without me. i do a ton of work in the workshop02:31
v33  pretty much copy the raw data portion of it into a notepad, save it as a  xx.uvk and walla. you can pretty much guess what it does02:33
v33the only thing i didn't allow was a hitman pro scan...which has lots of false positives02:34
Romsterwhat sort of confg file format is that doens't look like xml.02:35
v33its for the uvk program, not too sure...02:35
Romsterit's own format.02:36
Romsterok saved but i think i need  to change it to dos CRLF though than just LF.02:36
Romsteryeah no point having a ton of false positives.02:37
v33yep.especially since it can potentially f-up your system02:37
Romsteror the customers :D02:37
v33especially the customers xD02:38
v33i remember i left hijackthis on a clients computer, and they ran it and deleted everything because they thought it was all viruses ^___^02:38
Romsteryeah hijackthis is a big report not all is a virus02:44
v33yup yup. imagine explaining to them what they did02:46
Romsterglad it wasn't me02:48
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v33jesus, this system update is taking for ever and a half lol04:01
niklaswehmm should i be lazy and install debian for my mediacenter or install crux to it :P04:13
niklaswethats the quesiton..04:13
horrorStrucki'm glad i did, if that can help you to make your decision04:20
niklaswehorrorStruck: that you install crux on it?04:21
horrorStrucki have an HTPC (xbmc) / torrentbox that used to run arch. i installed CRUX on it a few months ago, it worgreat04:22
horrorStruckworks great*04:22
niklasweoh :) maybe i should take the time to install crux on it then :)04:24
niklaswerigth now using I my old macmini (from 2006) and it have problem to play HD movies and some 720p..04:27
niklaswehorrorStruck: did you use jaegers xbmc ports or..04:31
v33goodnight everyone04:40
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Romsterniklaswe, vdpau might help there. mplayer2 and xine support it afaik.04:56
frinnstholy fuck, massive backlog04:57
Romstersay who's been monologuing?04:58
niklasweRomster: hmm maybe, but i will change out my old macmini and use my old computer 2.7ghz 2 gb ram and nvidia Geforce.04:59
niklaswethis old macmini is only 1.8 ghz single core with 1 gb RAM04:59
Romstermight do it if the video card is decent enough for vdpau to use.05:00
Romsterbut that 2.7Ghz will do it with ease.05:00
niklaswecan i install xmbc with prt-get or..?05:02
Romsteras long as it's packaged05:04
Romsteri don't see it in portsdb05:05
niklasweI think jaeger has made one..05:05
Romster should be there if it was in his repo.05:06
Romsterunless he made it less than 24 hours ago05:06
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niklasweI find it..05:08
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Romsteryou spelled it wrong -_-05:10
niklaswehmm yeah :P05:11
RomsterhorrorStruck, get the CLAMPMSS sorted and tc rules?05:12
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frinnstaussies are awesome :D05:46
Romsteri met bob hawk in person05:51
Romsterschool excursion when i was in grade 5 iirc to canberra05:52
Romsterthen that horrible paul keeting took over05:55
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cruxbot[core-x86_64.git/2.7]: unzip: altered buildconf08:21
cruxbot[core.git/2.7]: unzip: build with linux_noasm target08:33
cruxbot[core-x86_64.git/2.7]: libgmp: corrected buildhost08:34
cruxbot[core-x86_64.git/2.7]: unzip: removed redundant port08:34
frinnsti think im about to OD on caffeine08:38
rmullbe careful!08:43
Romsterfrinnst, i used to drink over 10 cups a day had to cut back08:45
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Romsteryeah seen that is funny08:49
Romsterhaha owned08:54
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: nfs-utils: force rpc.statd to run as user nobody08:56
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: vsftpd: update to 2.3.508:56
frinnstslow-ass raid reshape09:00
frinnst1500 minutes remaining.. ~40% completed09:00
niklaswegood evening!09:19
frinnstevening? its just over 4 pm.. afternoon is more apropriate :)09:24
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Romsterraid5? increase the cache stripe size09:27
Romster Flameeyes And I?m speechless you don?t read the f%&king article09:37
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Romsterlol what a read09:37
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jaegerawww.... only 11 penguins fit on the screen when booting with 1024x768 framebuffer10:06
jaeger14 if I go up to 1280x102410:06
frinnstdont be greedy10:07
frinnstcool, mdadm does support external metadata (bios raid)10:07
frinnstdmraid is redundant i guess10:08
frinnstmore coffee!10:14
cruxbot[core.git/2.7]: inetutils: update to 1.9.110:24
jaegerRotwang1: pidgin's got gnutls in its .footprint but not dependencies, it seems11:12
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jaeger(assuming it's supposed to use gnutls)11:15
Rotwang1jaeger: thx, I'll check12:16
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jaegerRotwang1: np :)12:22
joe9rmull, can you please take the ghc 7.2.2, pcb-git and geda-git to your repository? source for the ports:
rmulljoe9: I should get a chance this weekend13:06
joe9ok, thanks.13:06
joe9I am trying to add gerbv to that list.13:07
rmullThanks for reminding me13:07
rmullI added kicad recently13:07
joe9cool, never tried kicad, though I keep hearing about it.13:20
joe9the latest version of automake seems to be giving issues:
rmullYeah, I'm using it instead of geda now13:21
joe9Any suggestions on how I can fix it.13:21
joe9rmull:  why? was it better?13:22
rmullI did a schematic with geda and it was fine, but when I went to start the pcb layout, the library management tools seemed kinda annoying to me13:22
rmullGave kicad a shot and it hasn't presented the same awkwardness13:22
rmullGranted, the problem could have been that I didn't read enough documentation13:23
rmullBut i'm fairly happy with kicad13:23
rmulland don't think I'll be switching back13:23
joe9I am doing most of the pcb file editing from vim and using pcb just for displaying.13:24
rmullYou're doing pcb layout in vim?13:24
joe9I think the learning curve is the issue with pcb.13:24
joe9I think I am past that at this point.13:24
rmullI'm interested in your workflow13:24
joe9have pcb open, have a vim file of xxx.manual.pcb and a background process of "while true ; do cp --update xxx.manual.pcb xxx.pcb && sleep 1; done" running13:25
joe9and then for something I do not like I just changed the .manual.pcb or copy the relevant portion from .pcb to .manual.pcb13:26
joe9I could add comments and it gave me more control on drawing lines and stuff like that.13:26
rmullvery interesting.13:26
joe9did not try circular or curved stuff. stuck with straight lines mostly.13:27
joe9for lines, I meant.13:27
joe9btw, I am trying to get gerbv to build with automake.13:27
joe9I seem to be getting all kinds of errors with automake on crux13:27
joe9everyone else says that everything is fine for them.13:28
joe9wondering if you could take a look at this, and give your thoughts.13:28
rmullI can, if briefly13:28
joe9.....`pkgincludedir' is not a legitimate directory for `DATA'13:28
rmullLet me log into my macihne13:28
rmullwhere did you get gerbv?13:29
rmullFrom sourceforge?13:29
rmulllatest version?13:29
joe9this is the Pkgfile for the git version13:30
rmullI get the same warniing13:31
joe9i think it is a crux issue or (automake on crux)13:31
joe9i am not getting much help from the #geda folks on issues like this as they consider this to be an automake issue.13:32
rmullhold on13:32
rmulllet me try some things13:32
joe9ok, thanks.13:32
rmulllooks like an automake bug13:38
joe9changed to pkginclude_HEADERS= gerbv.h13:39
joe9and it works.13:39
rmullThat's annoying13:39
joe9let me see if the gerbv folks can take a patch.13:40
rmullGood luck, seems like an easy fix13:40
rmullQuestion about package maintenance - what is the "correct" way to specify a list of dependencies in the Pkgfile? core ports use ", " and " " as delimiters, is there a right way?13:43
Rotwang1both are ok13:47
rmullYes, I see that, but I'd like to be consistent13:48
rmullIf it doesn't matter at all I'll just use spaces13:49
rmulljoe9: There is a "ghc" in romster's portdb13:53
rmullI don't think I should duplicate the effort13:53
rmullRomster: Do you want to bump the ghc port to the latest rev for joe9?13:53
rmullIs there a way to search the "global" portdb using pkgutils, or must a browser be used?13:54
joe9rmull, but that is too old, I think.13:55
rmullYou should ask him to bump it, rather than just making a new one13:55
rmullI think.13:56
joe9there is a difference, his port uses a file. I do not see the need for it anymore.13:58
joe9romster, any thoughts, please? this is my Pkgfile:
joe9and the source of the port is:
joe9sent a patch to the good folks at gerbv.14:01
joe9pushed gerbv-git to the repo too.14:06
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rmullSo how do these -git ports work? They never get updated until you force them with pkgutils?14:14
rmullLike, if you do a sysup, it won't pull them in, right?14:16
joe9rmull, What do you mean? I followed e17's guidelines  (pitillo 's packages). they clone the git source in distfiles/<pkg>14:23
rmullYeah, but if you do a ports -u, the Pkgfile never gets an update, so a sysup won't run a git pull, right?14:26
frinnstif you call15:11
frinnst<wrong window>15:11
thrice`fine, I don't call :(15:12
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v33hi everyone17:12
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Romsterjoe9, good way todo git.18:34
Romsterbut not in official repos18:34
Romsterjoe9, working on ghc update and a way to bootstrap it. as if it's not installed already have fun installing it.18:48
joe9Romster: that is tagging onto a version. Thanks, good to have it.18:56
joe9Romster: wouldn't it be cool for the git versions to be able to update automatically using prt-get update?18:57
joe9rmull: yes, you are correct.18:57
joe9pitillo: "Yeah, but if you do a ports -u, the Pkgfile never gets an update, so a sysup won't run a git pull, right?" <-- any thoughts on this?18:57
Romsteri'm not certan but i think prt-get can read $(date) in version= strings18:58
horrorStruckniklaswe: use my own ports, git version of the eden branch19:14
joe9it would be cool if "ports -u" and prt-get can read git versions.19:16
horrorStruckRomster: i was using pure pppd without rp-pppoe port that wont let me play with clampmms, i installed it and could use your settings. i had mixed results and went back to pure pppd for now but planning to experiment again19:16
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horrorStruckdidnt have the time to play with tc yet bit i will for sure19:18
Romsteri didn't know you cold do DSL bridge mode without rp-pppoe?19:20
horrorStruckthat wasnt possible in the past IIRC19:21
horrorStruckit is now19:21
horrorStrucknot very familiar with all this yet19:22
horrorStruckbut it's way more simple (i.e. less config files) to setup19:22
Romsteri'm not familer without usign rp-pppoe hmm perhaps it can tune it for you doing it your way. how did you set it up?19:22
Romsteri setup rp-pppoe quite a few years ago.19:23
horrorStrucki just have a pap-secret file and /etc/ppp/peers/bbb <--- my isp option file with all settings19:24
horrorStruckconnect with /usr/sbin/pppd call bbb19:24
horrorStruckconfig file:
horrorStruckbut you won't need rp-pppoe port19:27
horrorStruckwan is eth019:28
horrorStruckyou'll need pppoe suppport in your krnel19:29
Romsterhmm i wasn't aware of this.19:32
Romsterthe problem with rp-pppoe being a seriel device to pppd is the packing of packets efficiently into ATM cells, your way is most likely better than my current method.19:33
horrorStruckbut you wont be able to play with clamp. mtu is ok19:34
horrorStruckthe pap-secret file looks like: "isp_username" * "isp_password" *19:36
Romsterwell i may not need too pppd should be smart enough to pack as much data into a ATM cell, the idea behind CLAMPMSS was to tell pppd how big it can go without breaking.19:40
Romsterin any case i'll search around for this pppd DSL support before i try it out.19:41
Romsteri set mine up like before 200519:42
horrorStrucknot much in that link19:42
horrorStruckjust saying ppp replaced rp-pppoe19:42
Romsterin your case just use the txquelen and MTU and head onto tc.19:43
horrorStrucktxqlen is the most effective so far but very sensible with wireless19:43
horrorStrucki just learned some NIC have their own dark buffers19:44
horrorStruckyou can modify that behaviour with ethtool19:44
horrorStruckthat is why txqlen of 0 can work sometimes if your nic buffers too much by default19:44
Romsteroh i'm not aware of that, will look into that too19:44
horrorStruck <-- see ring buffer size19:45
Romsterjust when i thought i mastered this area you throw me off again -_-19:46
horrorStruckdont use the ath9k patch, it's outdated19:46
Romstergoing out for lunch bbl, i'll look into this stuff later today19:49
horrorStruckthat guy behind cero-wrt is using some pretty interesting setting using net-next BQL and SFQ/QFQ:
horrorStruckok bon apetit19:50
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v33jaeger: did you know the sager notebooks ships without an os, and, if you opt for that, the price drops?19:53
jaegerI didn't but it doesn't surprise me, there are other vendors who do that as well20:00
v33really excited, might get one for me :D20:25
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Romsterjoe9, ghc: 7.0.1 -> 7.2.221:58
Romsterrmull, i prefer to use spaces hate using commas in depends on line.21:59
Romstereither works though.21:59
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Romsteryeah you can use version=git-$(date '+%Y%m%d') in Pkgfiles ok for keeping up to date on git releases but then you have to checkout origin/master or some stable branch.22:14
Romsterjoe9, bumped libffi and added libedit too.22:26
Romstermay move ghc to contib at a later point what ports depend on ghc?22:26
Romsteri'm into electronics but it's been ages since i've used any PCB layout software i'd be keen on using though.22:26
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