IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2012-04-07

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cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: nss: updated to 3.13.403:06
cruxbot[opt-x86_64.git/2.7]: nss: updated to 3.13.403:07
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NomiusHello19:06
NomiusIs Crux 2.8 near?19:07
Romsterhi Nomius i'm not sure but there is a few testing newer toolchain. the whole glibc thing has been holding back CRUX 2.8 there is CRUX 2.7.1 that has newer packages with existing CRUX 2.7 toolchain though.19:48
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NomiusHey Romster thanks for asking...20:02
Nomiuss/asking/answering/20:02
NomiusWhat's the problem with the newest libc?20:02
Romstermissing headers for one. they expect all programs to play catch up and use the newer library instead. i forget the exact details. someone fill me in again.20:05
Romstermaintainershp has shifted now and the new glibc team are actually applying patches that got rejected by the older dev20:05
Romsterudev is being merged into systemd is another one to figure out what to do.20:06
Romstertesting a newer rc-ng scripts that need more reviewing, seems most like some of the features but it's too bloated for crux tastes so, it may be some features get merged into existing rc.20:07
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Romsterxorg's latest server is still maturing video drivers and stuff too. you can try out the later xorg though sinc ei've forked and bumped that in the hopes it'll get merged back into xorg at some point20:08
Romsterhttp://romster.dyndns.org/linux/ports/crux/version-updates/ http://romster.dyndns.org/tmp/xorg-patches/20:09
RomsterNomius, and there seems some community project to bump some older version ports too by horrorStruck https://github.com/horrorStruck/community-patches-queue20:10
RomsterI don't know how far along we are on all the things that need doing are. that's relaly jues decision afaik since he is the most active in core. well jaeger jsut joined core again too. and jaeger is the one that is building our iso and toolchain.20:12
Romsterand testing newer toolchain build.20:12
Romsterfrinnst, is working on x86_64 jaeger is working on x86_64 multilib we are debating if we should got o x86_64 but use the multilib gcc so those that want 32bit support for wine or possibly other programs can.20:13
RomsterNomius, join in the mailing list and hang around #crux-devel if your interested in following development.20:14
NomiusThanks for the update :-)20:15
NomiusMmmmm udev merged into systemd?20:17
Romsterfrom observation give it a bit of time it'll come out. we arn't a big distro, but we pride on reliability and stability.20:17
Romsterhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news/2012040400739NWSWDV20:17
NomiusOh, but that's pretty new20:18
NomiusMy question is how udev will be merged into systemd when systemd requires dbus...20:18
Romsteryeah but we are holding back udevversionf or another reason to this new /run directory thing.20:18
NomiusSeems so twisted...20:19
Romsterugh i wishing that dbus died like hal has.20:19
Romsterdbus is a nice idea but ti's done wrong.20:19
NomiusKeep wishing :-P20:19
Romsterhal was a hold hands until other programs matured.20:20
NomiusBut "there's no" replacement for dbus ATM20:20
Romstertrue20:21
Romsteryou can run most things without dbus though20:21
NomiusI mean, there's nothing maturing in the back... Also, tons of software makes heavy usage of dbus...20:21
NomiusYeah, window managers :-)20:21
Nomiusgnome and xfce use it a lot...20:22
NomiusDunno how the kde folks did it20:22
Romsterit's all the addon apps that depend on it.20:22
Romsteroh and there is that wayland desktop server project starting to mature too.20:22
RomsterGNU Linux is in what my opinion is a mess ATM20:23
NomiusI use openbox+tint2, so dbus really is something that I actually don't care about...20:23
NomiusYeap20:23
Romsterpekwm here.20:23
Romsterboth lightweight desktops.20:23
Nomiuswindow managers only20:24
Romsterkernel development has gone into overdrive too20:24
Nomius#What is what you like about pekwm?20:25
NomiusLOL, forgot that I'm not in the shell :-P20:25
NomiusThe whole android is driving linux desktop distributions nuts...20:25
Romsteryeah, the last DE i used was KDE but i wanted ot get rid of that bloat and tried fvwm icewm and a few others and settled on pekwm, right click many default theme is pretty ugly. but that's easily changed.20:26
Romsteroh that too android.20:26
NomiusJust downloaded pekwm, it's C++, don't like it so :-P20:27
Romsteryou hate stuff in C++?20:27
NomiusBut I don't think that crux is waiting for everything to settle down...20:27
NomiusYeap, I'm more a C kinda guy :-)20:27
Romsterman power time to test stuff being a small team of devs.20:28
RomsterI prefer C but C++ isn't as bad as what some make it out to be if coded cleanly.20:28
Romsternot like firefox for example that's badly done.20:28
Romsterwebkit does it far neater.20:28
Romsteranyways don't judge a program by being in C++ :)20:29
Romsterit's usually java stuff i shy away from, but some things in java seem ok.20:30
NomiusOh no, don't get me wrong... I don't judge the program, but the developers :-P20:30
Romsterbut it's such a ram hog in java.20:30
Romsterlol20:30
NomiusJava is waaaaay more cleaner than C++20:30
Romstercome to think of it, pekwm could of been done in C.20:30
Romstertrue java is far cleaner.20:31
Romsterbut still a ram hog.20:31
Romsterbut with lots of ram these days it's a no issue mostly.20:31
NomiusThat's why I use openbox, it's C, although, it became kinda a mess now... I started to code my own window manager a couple of months back, but it is in my ~/Projects getting full of dust :-P20:32
Romsteranyways i'm not certain what's holding up crux 2.8 but that's my observations of what's happening lately.20:32
Romstertends to happen. you program C much? lost interest or lack of time?20:32
NomiusKinda both...20:33
NomiusI work doing C :-)20:33
Romsterah so you get bored of doing C at home when you do it all day at work.20:33
Romsterah perhaps you work for berlios ?20:35
NomiusNo, my problem with several of my "never seen the light projects" is that when I start it, I learn the new library api (for what I'm about to do), do a little of work with it till I get tired and once I learnt it I say "Beh, I already learnt it, nothing new now", so I don't finish the project :-)20:36
Romsteri'm working on some projects but it's being done in Python and bash atm, for lack of understanding C enough to write from scratch in it.20:36
NomiusI normally manage myself to get something that I can barely use as a project :-P20:36
Romsteryour funny but alot fall into that category.20:37
NomiusOh no, I work for a closed source company (unfortunately?)20:37
Romsteryou should hang out more in here.20:37
Romsterah that's a shame can't reuse code that you write for that company.20:38
NomiusYeah, but I have tons of code out there which is open source ;-)20:38
NomiusPatches for known projects, projects of my own, etc...20:38
NomiusI like codding a lot when I'm at home :-)20:38
Romsteri fix windoze at work, when i get home i'm reinvigorated with linux.20:39
Romsterwindows drives me more crazy than all the bugs in linux.20:40
NomiusI can imagine...20:40
Romsterbut the customers are even worse than windows.20:40
NomiusI do most of my daily work in hp-ux, which isn't really funny ;-)20:40
Romsterah well at least i can get some tranquility when servicing photocopiers20:41
NomiusSo Linux at home is like a relief :-)20:41
Romsterah like it is for me after windows.20:41
NomiusWell, thank god that udev will still be able to get it standalone... Otherwise it would be the end of init in Linux...20:42
NomiusI like to keep Linux old school style (kinda it is in crux)...20:43
Romster"for a long time" but how long is long :P20:44
Romstersome of us were jokingly of returning to the older static nodes.20:44
NomiusOlder static nodes?20:45
Romsterthe way /dev used to be before udev came out.20:45
NomiusOhh, that would be no joke actually20:46
NomiusI liked that way better20:46
Romsteri like the clener /dev as it is now but not at the cost of systemd and bloated init system. feel so locked into there one and onyl init when there exists many.20:47
Romsteri was using runit at one stage.20:47
NomiusBSD where the first who came up with dynamic devices...20:47
Romsterreally... BSD likes everything minimalist20:48
Romsterstrange huh? udev and it's added complexity, seems anti BSD.20:48
NomiusI'm starting to look at OpenBSD with nice eyes again actyally20:49
Nomius*actually20:49
Romsteri've never ran OpenBSD but i may one day.20:49
joe9Nomius: why not xmonad?20:50
NomiusThe only thing that stopped me in OpenBSD was Flash...20:50
joe9good to learn haskell.20:50
Nomiusjoe9: I hate haskell20:50
NomiusI learnt haskell at college20:50
Romsterflash is about to die20:50
NomiusI hope flash dies soon!20:50
Romsterno new versions only bug fixes from now on in linux for the nest 4 years iirc.20:51
Romsters/nest/next20:51
Romsterby then html5 will have matured.20:51
Romsteror even gnash or something too.20:51
joe9Nomius: why do you hate it? what is your preference to Haskell, other than C, ofcourse?20:53
NomiusOh, codding in Haskell is like if you want to scratch your left hear, but instead of doing it with your hand, you would do it with your right feet20:55
NomiusI shouldn't said that...20:56
NomiusNext time I'll keep my mouth shut20:56
NomiusThe nice thing of using OpenBSD is that I will be able to use OpenBGPd instead of the crappy quagga or bird21:00
joe9Nomius: there is nothing wrong with having an opinion/experience, as long as you are not forcing it down my throat. I am a big fan of haskell, and would love to get some experiences from the other side. It makes me question what I am doing and imho, that is good.21:13
Romsterwhat joe9 said21:15
Romsterhappy Easter to everyone too.21:15
NomiusOh, I see, happy easter to you too :-)21:16
Romsterit's sunday here, even if it's not on every country yet.21:17
NomiusYeap21:17
joe9Nomius: s/"what is your preference to Haskell, other than C, ofcourse?"/"what is your preferred alternative to Haskell, other than C, ofcourse?"/21:24
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NomiusOh, you're not gonna like my answer...21:24
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NomiusBut for not being so hardcore, I will avoid saying "depends on the architecture" by saying Python :-)21:25
joe9python is pretty popular and is easier to read compared to perl, imho21:26
NomiusIndeed...21:27
joe9i used to do perl before my Haskell days.21:27
Romsteramazingly predatorfreak replied to the ML.21:27
NomiusI've done small things in Perl, I can't say I know Perl unfortunately21:28
NomiusML seems more flexible than Haskell21:28
joe9and, would love to pick up Idris. I like "type systems" and that holds my fancy. I also like coq/agda.21:28
joe9Nomius: oh, good to know about ML. never tried it.21:28
Romsteri'm referring to mailing list21:29
NomiusI've done some CoQ21:29
NomiusOhhh, sorry Romster :-)21:29
joe9Nomius: oh, cool. do you like coq?21:30
joe9Nomius: do you think all programming might some day be "proof-driven" oslt?21:30
NomiusHehe, its limited for my needs :-)21:30
NomiusHope not :-)21:31
Romsteri'll do a runner and say free pascal compiler :D21:31
Nomiusjoe9: you don't have to tell me anything else, I know you're running for a CS degree ;-)21:31
Romsterso many languages to choose form, but it ultimately boils down to the right tool for the job.21:32
joe9Nomius: no, I am not. I wish I was.21:32
NomiusWell, if you wish it, I can say you are in the right way, judging by your questions and ideas...21:33
joe9romster, no doubt about that.21:33
Romsterand in most cases what your comfortable at using.21:33
joe9Romster: definitely.21:35
Romstersometimes what your comfortable with isn't the best choice.21:36
Romsterin my case i'm still using shell python when i should be using something more suitable.21:36
Romsterbbl22:26
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