IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2012-08-14

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niklaswemorning01:49
rauz_mgn01:55
niklaswehow is it rauz_ ?01:55
rauz_puhh not so good shit sles is broken at work and i hate this pice of crap02:01
niklasweurk, i also hate sles and centos..02:09
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RomsterYay work done, at least until tomorrow.02:47
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Romsterhttp://xkcd.com/03:27
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entehttp://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-August/006066.html06:14
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teK_this can't be good06:19
teK_kiddo..06:20
entewe are the borg06:20
teK_stupid fucker06:20
nogagplz_resistance is puerile06:21
enteI thought, just so you know what you'll be dealing with...06:21
teK_'we have to fix bloaty init systems' => ALL non-systemd distros are ought to end up in the dead end06:21
entemaybe mdev might be a suitable fix for the udev situation06:21
enteyou could ask rob landley on the mdev situation06:22
enteafaik, devtmpfs is also back in kernel, after they took it out for a while06:22
entes/tmp//06:23
entehttp://lwn.net/Articles/331818/06:23
frinnstmdev works, but is very limited06:57
frinnstbut one might see that as a feature, since it only does what it's supposed to do06:57
frinnstwhen was devtmpfs removed?06:58
enteI think landley extended it06:58
entedevfs was removed, devtmpfs was added later06:58
frinnstyeah but it's hardly the same thing :)06:58
enteI know nothing about devfs06:58
enteI just assumed they were similar06:59
frinnstyou must use it if you use the current udev version06:59
frinnst182 or whatever06:59
enteyou can just keep using your ages old udev :>06:59
frinnstyeah but crux 2.8 will contain 18207:00
frinnstthat's why many early adopters cant get their rc0 installs to boot :)07:00
frinnsthttp://lists.crux.nu/pipermail/crux-devel/2012-July/thread.html07:01
frinnstif you don't subscribe..07:01
enteI am subscribed07:03
enteI just hid the =crux folder from my MUA, because I had very little time to read mailing lists during the last semester07:03
entehm, I think the x86_64 switch is a step in the right direction07:04
enteeven though I'm still mostly on i686 machines07:04
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Romsteri seriously feel like mailing that list and telling him my opinion07:38
frinnstgo nuts07:44
frinnstjust use a fake name :)07:44
frinnstit really does feel like a hostile takeover by redhat/fedora07:44
Romsteroh i'll research before doing that and make sure i am correct.07:45
Romsterdevtmpfs 600 lines of code, that's all good and simple but what about this whole udev and systemd how many lines of code is that taking.07:47
Romsterand why can we not choose what init system to run, why are we forced to use your systemd.07:47
Romsterembeded systems using udev/systemd too, fat chance.07:48
Romsterwhat else can be added to that list.07:49
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frinnstI wouldnt worry too much about stuff like that08:00
frinnstI dont care what others run. what I do care about is to take a piece of tech that has been the foundation for all distributions for what, 10 years?, and force everyone to use another piece of software08:02
frinnstwe are the borg, you will be assimilated08:03
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Romsterheh08:04
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jaegerstatic /dev, welcome back, my friend!08:19
frinnstmdev!08:19
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frinnsttbh, I do think their intentions are good. rh probably want a less fragmented linux community08:20
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jaegersome of their intentions are good but the "fuck you, you WILL use what we use" is the bad part of it08:21
frinnstheh, yeah08:21
jaegerThe bit about udev being "supported" outside of systemd is just lip service and they will do away with that as soon as they can... hell, he even says that straight up in the mail linked earlier08:21
frinnstthe immortal words of zdlr of rage against the machine: "Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me"08:22
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jaegerheh08:23
frinnsthttps://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/systemd-and-slackwares-future-4175416339/08:24
frinnst\o/08:24
joacimbut people get all pissy when you dont do what they tell you08:24
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frinnstbtw, latest gtk3 branch depends on dbus :D08:36
Romsterblah08:39
Romsterany way out of that?08:40
frinnstyeah, dont use it08:40
frinnst:)08:40
frinnstits a devel branch08:40
Romsterfigures we'll be forced to sooner or later.08:40
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frinnsthttps://plus.google.com/111049168280159033135/posts/V2t57Efkf1s09:04
Romsterread so much and i was gonna dos ome xorg version bumping but i got a runny nose and i feel drowse and am tired now.09:30
teK_/c/09:35
joe9romster, for some reason my new ports are not going to my repo on crux ports browser.09:45
joe9I added a port called heekscad-svn, but, I do not see it in the ports browser.09:45
frinnstiirc, the port browser collects stuff via cron10:02
frinnstso give it a day maybe10:03
jaegeryeah, it's updated once a day10:03
joe9ok, thanks guys.10:13
joe9Romster: stupid f** that I am. I messed up my ~/.ssh/joe9 files and I cannot connect to your machine now.10:34
joe9Romster: do not worry. got it from the backup.10:40
Romsterjoe9, you silly thing <_<11:10
Romsterp[ortsdb is updated once a day but you can see your port here already at http://romster.dyndns.org/linux/ports/crux/joe9/11:11
Romsterand anyone that does a ports -u with your httpup file will get that port before it's even listed on portsdb11:11
joe9romster, ok, thanks.11:16
Romsteri sahould be in bed but i feel like crap and can't sleep11:18
Romstershould*11:18
Romsterand can not type...11:18
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v33hey guys13:48
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teK_This is why you're German:14:57
teK_You always park your car in the direction you are driving - Ordnung muß sein!14:57
teK_http://www.thisiswhyyouregerman.com/  hilarious :>14:57
frinnstlol14:58
frinnstthis is how I see germans: http://media.multisportbloggen.se/2011/07/20110704-125759.jpg14:59
teK_with envy and distrust, just as you usually do?:>15:00
teK_how is this german?15:00
teK_it's dutch15:00
jaegerhe sees germans as dutch!15:01
* jaeger cries15:01
frinnstbecause it's ALWAYS a german or dutch fucker blocking the road15:01
frinnstI grant you that you really have recieved competition from the dutch on the swedish roads the last couple of years15:01
teK_screw YOU jaeger15:02
teK_blocking the road15:02
teK_says the one coming from a country having speed limits on your freeways15:02
frinnsthttp://www.kybacka.se/uploads/tyskahusbilar09.JPG15:02
jaegerI'm not german :P15:02
teK_HOW IS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE FREE!15:02
jaegeralso I drive a small car15:02
jaeger:D15:02
frinnstTHEY ARE EVERYWHERE15:03
frinnstwith one of these you can get a german to cross a minefield: http://www.kybacka.se/uploads/jesper100824_.jpg15:03
teK_I never block the road, trust me15:05
teK_Your first audio tape was Benjamin Blümchen and Bibi Blocksberg15:06
teK_got me :>15:06
teK_Benjamin Bluemchen the speaking elephant <3 <3 <315:07
frinnstlol15:07
teK_there's so miuch truth in this website15:08
frinnsthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fv3HIV6oYs <- <315:08
teK_where the heck do pink elephants live15:09
frinnstSweden15:10
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teK_must have some good drugs I suppose15:10
teK_You always complain about Dutch caravans on German Autobahnen15:14
teK_see frinnst, the website said it, too15:14
frinnsthaha15:15
frinnstITS THE DUTCH!15:15
teK_YES15:15
teK_eating cheese, blocking roads with caravans and playing bad football15:15
jaegerteK_: how did you want to set it up? just pushing data from the crux.nu server out via ssh+rsync?15:17
teK_*cough cough*15:18
jaegercurse you, window focus!15:18
teK_win.. what?15:18
jaegernot in the gui sense, just had the wrong window open in irssi15:19
teK_thank god so frinnst has one less reason to bitch about :x15:20
jaegerheh15:23
jaegerdamn germans blocking my irssi buffers15:23
teK_haha15:23
ente[15:19] <@jaeger> static /dev, welcome back, my friend!15:26
entemy slackware 13.1 desktop at my parents' place is running static /dev without any problems15:27
jaegerI was only half-joking :)15:27
entewell, I figured I don't need udev for my p-mmx machine15:29
entebecause there is no hardware to detect15:29
frinnstThis is why you're german: you do this: http://www.jaunted.com/files/3/pool_towels.jpg15:30
entethen the machine died and I reused the disk in my p4-desktop15:30
entenow I have a p4-desktop with 512MB RAM and a 4GB harddrive15:30
entewhich happens to be the second harddrive I ever owned15:30
teK_you're still young, padawan15:30
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teK_much hardware buy you must15:31
entenah15:32
enteI use it until it breaks15:32
teK_me, too15:32
teK_mostly.15:32
enteit just so happened that my hardware never broke15:32
enteso no need to replace it15:33
frinnstI had a good hd streak for about 10 years15:34
frinnstthen everything started to die15:34
entemy sister's 500G WD disk recently died15:35
entejust after I reinstalled linux and windows15:35
entewell, at least we had a backup15:35
entebut 500G IDE disks are expensive these days15:35
frinnst2.5" laptop?15:36
frinnstotherwise you can find a cheap sata card and a sata disk for less than a ide drive, probably15:37
entenah, desktop machine15:37
enteshe already has a SATA PCI card, but the performance of that thing is less than desirable15:37
enteit's ok to store media on that disk, but otherwise it's rather useles15:37
teK_btw anyone has experience with the OCZ synapse cache SSD as a 'pure' disk?15:38
jaegerNot with that particular model but I have other experience with OCZ and avoid them like the plague now15:39
teK_:D15:39
teK_been using a vertex3 since july 2011 without any problems (yet?)15:40
ente2 or more OCZ disks have died on us15:41
entedisks didn't even get detected anymore15:42
entewon't buy OCZ again15:42
teK_none for me!15:42
enteheard good things about intel and samsung15:42
entecan't confirm personally15:42
ente(never owned a SSD)15:42
ente(since my hardware is notoriously SSD incompatible and SSDs are too expensive, I probably won't, anyway)15:42
teK_they are just nice if you do: boot your computer, find(1) files or ./configure15:44
jaegerI have bought 2 OCZ SSDs... my first one which is dead now and another that I'm still using and seems to work fine for now... the problem is their track record for terrible support and misinformation15:46
jaegerI currently have 2 OCZ, 2 Intel, and 2 Samsung SSDs... the intel and samsung are great15:47
frinnst3 intel for me15:47
frinnstx25m, 320 & 33015:48
frinnstand I also had a old and simple ocz "solid series" drive that i've donated15:48
jaegerMine are an X25-M G2 and a 52015:48
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teK_do you use fstrim?15:51
Amnesiaohai15:51
teK_ohai!15:51
frinnstfstrim? as in discard?15:51
jaegerteK_: not explicitly, though the filesystem is mounted with the 'discard' option15:51
Amnesiahow're you crux folks doing?15:52
teK_great, thanks.15:53
teK_jaeger: I have xfs which seems to let me mount it with discard but mount(8) says it's a ext4 option15:54
jaegerteK_: what does /sys/block/<device>/queue/discard_max_bytes contain?15:55
teK_214745088015:56
jaegerIt would be 0 if unsupported, so that's good15:56
jaegerwhat kernel version?15:56
teK_3.5.015:57
jaegerthen mounting with the discard option should be fine, I think15:57
teK_mount says:15:57
teK_/dev/sda2 on / type xfs (rw,discard)15:57
jaegertrying to find the reference page15:57
jaegerhttp://xfs.org/index.php/FITRIM/discard <-- there it is15:57
frinnstdiscard is also a btrfs option15:57
jaegerIt's supported by quite a few filesystems now15:58
teK_I plan on using btfrs for my laptop reinstall15:58
Amnesiahm sorry to bother you folks15:58
teK_4GB / partition and nothing else was a _stupid_ thing to do15:58
Amnesiabut is there any specific reason why it's been quite a while ago since the last release?15:58
teK_there will be a 2.8 quite soonish :)15:58
frinnstAmnesia: yeah because glibc had some upstream issues15:58
jaegerAmnesia: mostly due to the glibc schedule15:58
Amnesiahm ok15:58
jaeger2.8 is coming soon as teK_ says15:58
frinnstthere's a 2.8-rc0 out :)15:59
Amnesiahm, and what 'bout security updates?15:59
teK_thanks for the link, jaeger15:59
jaegernp15:59
jaegerAmnesia: they are ongoing15:59
frinnstcrux is a rolling release.15:59
jaegerfor the current official release15:59
Amnesiahm16:00
Amnesiaguess I'll be reading the documentation tomorrow:)16:00
Amnesiathought it was more a la slackware16:00
Amnesiathere's no such thing as a repository right?16:00
frinnstthe http://crux.nu/gitweb/16:00
teK_www.crux.nu/portdb16:00
frinnst-the16:01
frinnstcore/opt/contrib/xorg are probably the repos you are interested in16:01
Amnesiawell take sudo for example:)16:02
Amnesiaand the format string vuln a while ago16:02
Amnesia^^16:02
frinnstif you're used to slackware you will probably feel at home with crux. init scripts and overall philosophy is quite similar16:02
Amnesiabut I'll stop wasting your folks time and read the documentation16:02
Amnesiathx for your time so far16:03
Amnesianeat16:03
Amnesiarunning debian atm16:03
frinnstthe sudo issues were an older branch of sudo, no?16:03
Amnesiabut I like the philosophy of keeping stuff simple16:03
frinnstand that systemd is evil? :)16:04
Amnesiasudo 1.8.0 - 1.8.3p116:04
Amnesiaoh hell yes16:04
frinnst:)16:04
frinnstVersion:      1.8.5p216:05
frinnst^^ current sudo version16:05
frinnstoh, they released p3 yesterday16:05
teK_http://crux.nu/gitweb/?p=ports/core.git;a=commit;h=3c54ccc151266214fa14f1d146733fc1fcb7e3ce16:05
Amnesiahm I'm pretty curious about the manageability of crux16:06
frinnstports -u && prt-get sysup16:06
Amnesiaprt-get is an apt-get alternative?16:08
teK_it's moslty a front end for dependency resolution and pkgmk & friends16:08
Amnesianeat16:08
teK_so yeah, pretty much16:09
frinnstthink bsd ports but with simpler tools :)16:09
Amnesiacool16:10
AmnesiaI've got this strange obsesion to get my rootfs to be as small as possible16:10
Amnesiausable rootfs ofc :)16:11
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teK_then you'll have fun handpicking installed core ports on setup-time16:11
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Amnesiaheh16:11
frinnstcore is pretty trimmed. you might be able to skip one or two packages, but that's about it16:12
Amnesiamy current debian installation on my desktop is 900mb16:12
Amnesiasweet16:12
frinnsthttp://crux.nu/gitweb/?p=ports/core.git;a=tree16:13
Amnesiahm it feels like a hybrid bsd/linux system16:14
frinnstzzz16:15
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sabayonuser2Hello anyone here?18:16
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Romsterusually21:35
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