IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2012-08-16

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niklasweGood mornings!01:18
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Romsterwine is not crap...02:59
nogagplzyeah seriously03:17
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poulecacahi all04:12
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poulecacaI'm trying to install crux on a GPT disk, so far I've managed to partitionate the disk and install crux' core binaries on this disk.04:41
poulecacabut I'm not sure about the EFI system partition, do I need to make one for linux or one for all Oses (including windows) is sufficient ?04:42
frinnstjaeger and tek use gpt and efi i think04:43
frinnstjaeger is probably sleeping still :)04:43
poulecacaok I'll wait for him to wake up, I'm not in a rush :)04:44
poulecacaMy understanding is that we need only 1 ESP but as I see windows made 2 ESP04:44
poulecacayep thx Romster I have read this thats why I am asking04:45
frinnstnewish windows always create a 100mb system partition, maybe that's the second one you see?04:45
Romsterthat's for recovery purposes.04:46
Romstersadly i don't know much on UEFI04:46
Romsteri have not got any such systems at home yet.04:46
poulecacaI'm thinking about an EFI for recovery which is in fact GPT or something like this but not sure04:46
Romster might be worth a try04:52
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Amnesia_when I run sysup after ports -u, it tell me my system's up to date06:52
Amnesia_but ports -u tells me that that is actually not the case06:52
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horrorStruckports -u wont tell you anything about the machine's state07:05
horrorStrucktry ports -d07:05
Amnesia_eh sorry07:13
Amnesia_I meant ports -d07:13
horrorStruckany locked ports ? prt-get listlocked07:14
Amnesia_ugh crap, it's broken after a sysup07:17
frinnstAmnesia_: are you running x86_64?07:26
frinnstif that's the case then ports -d will lie to you07:26
frinnsttry prt-get diff instead07:26
frinnstit's not uncommon for the 32bit manintainer to bump the release= number because they needed to tweak something07:27
frinnstbut since im so awesome I had already thought of that for the x86_64 port, so no changes were necessary07:27
Amnesia_frinnst: yep07:30
Amnesia_thx for the clearance07:31
Amnesia_I've got the feeling that x86_64 is still slightly buggy07:32
Amnesia_is this assumption correct?07:32
frinnstNot really buggy07:33
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frinnstmaybe just a bit unpolished07:33
Amnesia_hm ok07:33
Amnesia_ugh I want a rapsberrypi07:34
Amnesia_this instalattion in a vm sucks07:34
mike_kwhat is a reason for xdri complaining:"libGL is too old"? the only error in Xorg.log is "Failed to load module "dri" (module requirement mismatch, 0)". is a part of xorg-server... should I rebuild it?07:36
Amnesia_a sysup fucked my system upXD07:36
horrorStruckthat is a bit vague.07:39
Amnesia_think it's related to devmapper07:39
horrorStruckhmmm...  if not sure, just blame frinnst07:40
frinnstmike_k: romster pushed a libdrm update earlier. did your error appear after install?07:40
frinnstno, blame should always go to tek07:40
horrorStruckit's his turn this week?07:42
frinnstit's always his turn07:42
RomsterAmnesia_ prt-get update -fr `revdep`07:44
Romsterwill take some time07:44
Romsterso run that as root not with sudo07:44
horrorStruckyou sysup'd from a fresh install?07:44
Amnesia_revdep isnt installed07:45
Amnesia_horrorStruck: yep07:45
Amnesia_(pretty new @ crux )07:45
frinnstprt-get fsearch revdep07:46
mike_kfrinnst: I have not updated to that libdrm yet. anyway, I'll sysup and rebuild xorg-server.07:46
Romsterprt-get depinst prt-utils07:46
mike_kI should find a way to add custom keyboard layout without manually patching rules on every xorg release (07:47
Amnesia_can't access the ports dir in single user mode07:47
Amnesia_but is this common :)07:48
Amnesia_( wouldn't think so )07:48
Amnesia_I just installed the core, compiled my kernel, sysup, rebooted and now I'm in single user mode^^07:48
Amnesia_( happened twice )07:49
frinnstany errors?07:49
frinnstyou only get thrown into single user mode if there's a issue with the filesystem07:49
frinnstusually atleast07:50
Amnesia_appears so yes07:50
RomsterAmnesia_, ports -u ; prt-get depinst prt-utils ; prt-get sysup ; prt-get update -fr `revdep` ; rejmerge07:50
frinnstRomster: that will hardly fix what's wrong07:50
Romstershouldn't be in single user mode unless you did something wrong...07:50
Amnesia_( it's just a testing system, I'm just playing, but still )07:50
Amnesia_I'd like to understand what's going wrong07:50
Amnesia_not really known with devmapper07:50
frinnsthow are you drives set up?07:51
Amnesia_or udev might be the problem07:51
Amnesia_one massive partition, ext307:51
horrorStruckAmnesia_: also, current udev requires devtmpsfs and devtmpfs_mount. plus you have to switch to kmod. all of that depending on the version you installed07:51
Romsteryo did include devtmpfs and automount devtmpfs?07:51
Romsterin kernel config07:51
frinnstyeah devtmpfs is probably the issue07:51
frinnstcurrent udev require it07:52
Amnesia_could be07:52
Amnesia_I just used defconfig07:52
Amnesia_isn't the devtmpfs used in older versions?07:52
Romsterthats tmpfs07:53
Romstererr devfs sorry07:53
Romsterso confusing -_-07:53
Romsterlike TRIM is now discard but the utility is still fstrim07:54
Amnesia_currently only /dev/pts ad /dev/shm are in my fstab file07:54
Romsterzgrep DEVTMPFS /proc/config.gz07:54
frinnstAmnesia_: boot with the old kernel (if you still have it) and recompile the kernel with the right options07:54
frinnstor use the install cd and just chroot and rebuild it07:54
Amnesia_hm sure07:55
Amnesia_so devtmpfs isn't used before the sysup?07:55
frinnstthe old udev manages without it07:55
Romsterit's used by the newer udev version07:55
frinnstnew udev will break without it07:56
Romsterthere was a ML entry for that udev version.07:56
horrorStruckalso, we'll blame you for everything for now on.07:56
Romsterblame who?07:56
Amnesia_so what's the exact difference between udev and devtmpfs :)?07:58
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Romsterya know what i saw today but didn't have time to get out my camera? a yellow ute with the number plate "derp"08:01
Romsterdeptmpfs si the kernel populating /dev early08:01
Romsterolder udev copied static nodes into /tmp08:02
Amnesia_hm ok08:02
Amnesia_any advantages compared to udev?08:02
Romsterit's used with udev not on it's own08:03
Romsterudev still handles node creation for usb and other stuff.08:03
Amnesia_ah ok08:03
horrorStruckit's not a replacement, it's a requirement08:03
* Romster requires Amnesia_ to search up on the topic.08:04
Amnesia_I will:)08:04
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jaegerpoulecaca: are you wanting to install and boot in EFI mode or just use GPT?08:07
jaegeryou can use GPT without EFI08:07
Amnesia_thanks for helping out this noob08:09
rmullCan anyone think of a reason that xorg won't load the evdev module? It never shows up in my xorg logs08:31
rmullActually, never mind08:32
rmullI think I have other problems08:32
poulecacajaeger: I want to boot in EFI mode yes08:37
jaegerpoulecaca: ok. you need efivars support in your kernel as well as GPT support, and you need an EFI-capable bootloader08:39
jaegerelilo and grub2 fit the bill, I'm not sure about others. There's also the EFI stub loader in kernels 3.3 and up but I haven't tried that, myself08:40
poulecacaI'm going to use the EFI stub bootloader08:41
poulecacaand rEFInt bootmanager08:42
teK_I never got that working08:44
poulecacaWhat I don't understand is why windows made 2 ESP08:50
jaegerIt's probably MSR, not a 2nd ESP08:53
jaegerWindows 7 in (U)EFI mode will have 3 partitions08:53
jaeger1 ESP, 1 MSR, and the windows partition itself08:53
jaegerusually in that order08:53
jaegerWindows requires the MSR any time you install it on a GPT disk, regardless of EFI support08:54
poulecacahum that makes sense the partition type is note E700 with gdisk08:54
poulecacaso I guess "all I have to do" is to mount the ESP on /boot/efi and manage to get things working :)08:56
jaegerI can't give you any help on the stub loader but with grub2 I installed an EFI-built grub2 into the ESP and a config file08:58
poulecacaok thx, I'll try and tell you if this works08:59
jaegerok, good luck :)08:59
poulecacathx :)08:59
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poulecacaI'm not sure keeping /boot on a seperate partition still makes sense now09:01
jaeger <-- here's the layout from my laptop for reference09:03
poulecacahum so your /boot seems to be the ESP itself09:05
jaegerNot quite... I have a /boot on my main linux partition and it still contains kernels,, etc.09:05
jaegerthe ESP contains grub2 and its modules and config files09:05
poulecacaok got it so as I though keeping /boot on a seperate partition does not make sense anymore09:07
jaegerIt makes sense in cases where your bootloader can't understand the filesystem on / or the like but those cases are less common now09:08
poulecacaookay :) thx09:08
krueIf you use the stub loader, you'll probably need to include the kernel and initramfs (if you have one) on the ESP.09:10
krueI say probably because it's possible to load an EFI module to add support for filesystems other than FAT.09:10
krue(I haven't tried them though)09:10
jaegeryeah, that's probably a key difference; grub2 has a bunch of modules to add filesystem support and other things, no idea on the stub loader09:11
poulecacaor create a seperate FAT boot partition09:12
krueYeah, my plan is to keep a FAT boot partition.09:15
krueI'm trying to boot via a USB key now to install, but still having trouble.09:15
krueI'm trying to boot via a USB key now to install, but still having trouble.09:16
krueI _think_ that the kernel is being loaded properly, but then the screen goes blank.09:16
poulecacaI have install everything b "unsquashing" crux iso's squashfs on a MBR disk crux install09:16
krueAs in, the monitor goes to standby.09:17
jaegerkrue: you might need to play with efifb support09:17
krueI am looking into issues with the i915 driver with kernel modesetting and the EFI framebuffer.09:17
krueI have both enabled right now.09:18
krueThe same kernel works when booted by extlinux in BIOS mode. I assume it's using the VGA text mode emulation in that case.09:19
jaegerI've got both enabled on my laptop and it behaves well, though I load the efi_gop module in grub209:22
krueahhh, I've seen that module referred to before. I'll have to research what it actually does.09:26
horrorStruckEFI seems to be a real PITA, are there any benefits at least? isn't there any BIOS legacy mode?09:36
jaegercurrently there's not much benefit09:38
joacimit might currently be a pain, but i dont think it will be in the future.09:39
horrorStruckjaeger: you're using a thinkpad IIRC?09:40
jaegeryes, X22009:40
horrorStruckno BIOS legacy (or whatever they may call it) mode?09:40
jaegerIt supports both09:40
horrorStruckOK good to know, thanks09:41
poulecacaThe only, not really important, benefit I see is that you can make much more physical partition and some bigger disk are supported09:42
horrorStruckthat's GPT09:42
jaegeryeah, EFI isn't required for those benefits09:42
joacimnative screen resolutions and aspect ratios as soon as you power up your computer09:45
poulecacayup sorry for the confusion09:45
horrorStruckhmm i get this early enough with kernel modsetting09:45
horrorStruckwith mode setting even :P09:46
horrorStruckwell KMS09:46
joacimbut i guess having advanced graphical capabilities that early in the boot process just means the hardware manufacturers will just be able to make more ugly user interfaces for their users.09:47
horrorStruckpoulecaca: just ooc, you're french?09:49
horrorStruckbest nick ever09:49
poulecacaI'm french yes09:54
Amnesia_horrorStruck, Romster, it's working now devtmpfs is compiled into the kernel09:54
horrorStruckMAZEL TOV09:54
horrorStruckpoulecaca: where are you from?09:54
poulecacaI'm from Clermont Ferrand but for now on I'm in Paris09:55
horrorStruckoh nice, I'm fron Val-de-Marne but now in Bangkok09:55
poulecacahaha you move really far from here :)09:56
horrorStruckstrong wind that day :P09:56
horrorStruckAmnesia_: you have to switch to kmod too09:57
Amnesia_well I already installed kmod09:58
horrorStruckand removed modeules-init-tools?09:59
Amnesia_( the updated system's booting fine now though )09:59
horrorStruckdidnt get any file conflict?10:00
Amnesia_manually removed it now though10:00
horrorStruckAmnesia_: just curious, coming from arch?10:02
Amnesia_nope, debian10:02
horrorStruckimpressions so far?10:02
Amnesia_hm it's pretty neat:)10:02
Amnesia_but I didn't run vanilla debian10:02
horrorStruckwhat do you mean?10:03
Amnesia_well I customized everything10:03
horrorStruckah ok10:04
Amnesia_and compiled a shitload manually and used stow10:04
* horrorStruck googles "stow"10:04
Amnesia_it's neat10:04
Amnesia_gnu stow10:04
horrorStruckjust found it, never heard of that before10:05
RomsterAmnesia_, cool10:08
Romsterheard of stow but never used it10:09
Romsteryou'll find it's probably easier to knock up some Pkgfiles10:09
Amnesia_tbh I think that's more work:)10:11
horrorStruckPkgfiles are so simple it's a joy to use. One of the biggest CRUX's selling point IMO.10:12
tilmanhorrorStruck: how come you're french _and_ know proper english? ;o10:13
Amnesia_horrorStruck: guess I'll take a look at them then10:13
horrorStrucktilman: i can guess you met a lot of french people :D but proper...10:14
horrorStruckAmnesia_: you'll have to anyway... while there are many ports available, there's always one you'll need that you won't find, we call it the CRUX's law :P10:15
Romsterlol horrorStruck10:25
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horrorStruckhi deeplloyd10:29
deeplloydhow ballsy -
deeplloydand wow ecuador.10:30
horrorStruckthey wont let that happen10:31
deeplloydwhat makes you say that?10:31
horrorStruckhmmm 100 years of history :P10:31
deeplloydthe ol' history repeating , huh10:32
horrorStruckUK already stated they wanted him to be sent to US10:33
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deeplloydwould it be crazy to think that he prob has entire countries backing him (in their desire for the fall of the countries who want him hushed)?10:34
horrorStruck*IMO* you're underestimating the power of *some* people10:35
deeplloydprob a bly10:35
Romsteris it me or we are getting more new users in here lately.10:36
Romsterprehaps refugees from other distros gone to systemd?10:36
deeplloydiv been using crux since 2007 at work. we use it for an embedded system. but iv just recently started hangin in here10:37
Romsteroh wow, that's neat then you'll know who i am then :)10:37
deeplloydsorry, i dont10:38
Romsteri've often wondered how many use it that don't hang out on either irc or the mailing list.10:38
Romsterlook in contrib Maintainer and more recently i've infiltrated opt and xorg too.10:38
deeplloydwe needed whole linux os on 512 CF card (we've now graduated to 1GB SATA DOM) but still. what better distro to start w/ in the aim to end so bare)10:39
Romstertrue crux is easy to strip down.10:39
Romsterbut it's pretty lean to begin with.10:39
deeplloydI do use arch everywhere. Firstly because it is similar to crux. Then after that because pacman is the bomb10:40
deeplloydRomster: lean is eXactly the word10:40
deeplloydeverywhere *else10:40
Romsteras your aware linux lately is having a divided decisions over a certain person. not sure where we will stand but so far we tend to agree systemd is bad.10:41
poulecaca< Romster> prehaps refugees from other distros gone to systemd? // exactly my case10:42
Romsteri knew it poulecaca :)10:43
Romsterbut i hope someone forks or mdev takes up the slack.10:43
deeplloydiv heard a bit but i would love some more info on this10:43
krueI'm not up to date on the whole systemd issue...10:46
krueI use crux, but replace the init with a daemontools style service supervisor such as runit.10:46
krueIt looks like I'll still be affected due to udev.10:46
Romsterwell i think the concensious is we'll stick to older udev for a while and see what else brews, i'm sure other distros will be reluctant too.10:46
Romsteri was using runit on my pc's that's quite good.10:47
Romsterbut yeah this systemd will break e/every other/ init system10:47
Romstersysvinit runit all others but systemd.... afaik.10:48
Romsterunless other systemd like replacments get made too.10:48
Romsterit's not helping it's unifying.10:48
Romsterfrom what i've been reading, redhat has too much of the pie.10:49
poulecacamaybe we can ask lennart ? :)10:51
horrorStrucki have 2TB of lennart's quotes proving he's an asstunnel10:52
Romsterhe's a stuck up selfish prick not thinking of anything but his best interests.10:52
RomsterhorrorStruck, make a quote bot :)10:53
poulecacalennart: are you who I think you are ?10:53
horrorStrucka lennart's quote bot, the horror :D10:53
entepoor lennart10:53
entehe always gets mixed up with poettering :(10:53
Romsterlennart, here is not that lennart the poor guy.10:54
horrorStruckaaah this lennart! he asked his parents to change his first name and lately to even change his DNA10:54
entejust like every adolf is being linked to hitler10:54
poulecacaI feel better10:54
entea quotebot could simply query a fortune cookie10:55
Romsterthe last place poettering would want to be is here. just think of all the back stabbing there.10:55
Romsterfortune cow10:55
poulecacaOne should think about the life of million people that has the same name before doing something evil10:55
enteI'll start filling the fortune file10:56
Romsterthat's a pretty good idea cowsay10:56
enteMy name is "Poettering", with "oe", as in "Goethe". Not "Pöttering". --
Romsterhaven't used that in ages.10:56
horrorStruckoh shit tell me this isnt real10:57
* horrorStruck clicks link10:57
RomsterPronunciation, please.10:59
RomsterLike Goethe, just without the "G" and the "the". And with a "P" and a "ttering" instead.10:59
Romsteri know i shouldn't be picking fun, but this is so big not too.11:01
entefeel free to edit and push :P11:02
Romsteryes that's it, and the one that says you can still buuld udev conponent but then you need all this other bullshit installed to just compile udev and that other patch that wont be applied to be able to only compile udev without extra packages installed.11:04
entewhy not make a fortune cookie?11:05
Romsterwonder if i can find them urls i might have bookmarked them11:06
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horrorStruckcomments on lwn are fucking lulzy11:09
horrorStruckClearly the correct solution is a sound sample saying "Hi, I'm Lennart Poettering, and I pronounce Poettering 'Poettering'" bundled in with the systemd source.11:09
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linXeawonderful to see that one of my favorite distros is still going strong :)11:15
horrorStruckhey we're 311 on the ML :P11:16
joacim"I don't think BSD is really too relevant anymore, and I think that this implied requirement for compatibility with those systems when somebody hacks software for the free desktop or ecosystem is a burden."11:17
horrorStruck'Debian kFreeBSD is a toy OS, people really shouldn't misunderstand that'11:18
joacimwhen i first started using a unix-like system, the ability to run the same software on multiple operative systems was advertised as one of the benefits of free or open source software11:19
horrorStruckfreedom of choice too11:19
poulecacaI should be the 312'th \o/11:26
Romsterwell we can say one thing there is a storm brewing.11:27
Romsterall flock to irc to voice opinions on the recent changes being forced on to us.11:28
poulecacaDamn when I remember that I came back frome netbsd to linux "thanks to" arch. And now that I see arch is almost the first distro to use system day I feel full of shame :'(11:29
horrorStruckarch used to be good few years ago11:29
linXeareally, arch was ever any good ? .. never got stuck in that hole. Sure Pacman and AUR are both pretty neat, but not worth the hassle11:31
horrorStruckin the beggining, arch was almost CRUX with binaries11:31
Romstersome thought arch came from crux, arch just borrowed some ideas.11:32
linXeawell, they ignored the, imo, awesome part of crux, ports11:32
horrorStruckthat's why it was so similar in the beggining11:32
horrorStruckthey have it in some way but it's optional11:33
horrorStruck(talking about ABS)11:33
Romsterarchbuilds arn't too bad compared to some others like ebuilds11:34
* linXea was never a fan of gentoo 11:34
Romsterthough nothing beats pkgfiles11:34
horrorStrucksyntax has changed over the years but a few years back you couldnt tell the difference between a PKGBUILD and a Pkgfile11:34
linXeaI spent a lot of years on manual distros, but now I am too lazy for that. Still run Crux on my mediabox though11:37
horrorStruckAFAIC, i like spending time on this, it's my hobby. OTOH i understand your pov11:39
horrorStrucknext sentence i'll try to put even more acronyms :D11:40
linXeahehe, I spend my free time helping people get started with linux. Been involved in a few different distros over the years11:42
horrorStruckwhat's your main distro now ooc?11:45
linXeaSolusOS.. also quite deeply involved in it. A debian derivative... Been friends with the main dev for many years.11:46
horrorStruckheard of it in various places11:47
horrorStruckin good mainly11:47
Romsternot one i've heard of before.11:48
linXeathe developer is extremely talented and making good progress. Also he is porting gnome 2 to gtk3 with very promising results11:49
Romstermostly busy with real life stuff though lately.11:49
linXeano, not mate.. mate is a dead end imo11:49
linXeawas part of the Linuxmint team for a long time.. never used it though, but did support and bugtracking. Since they totally messed up LMDE and brought Mate into the picture I stepped out more or less completely11:51
Romster unlucky11:51
Romsterwas enver a gnome fan as i never could get gnome to build so iw as a KDE users for a few years until i went with a lighter WM.11:52
Romsterif that guy can keep systemd out of gnome2 then he may have a chance11:53
linXeanever really cared with DE/VM I used, as long as it worked well. KDE4 was a utter disaster if you ask me11:53
Romsteri used KDE3 :)11:53
Romsternever tried 411:53
horrorStrucklol at bbc article11:54
linXea3.5.10 was great11:54
Romsteryeah iw as using 3.5.10 before i moved to a lighter WM11:55
Romsteri was*11:55
Romstermiss a moose hit a bear11:55
linXeawith modern hardware, lighter  VM/DE isnt really necessary, not like it used to be11:55
tilmanlinXea: bah. i hate that 'we have shiny hardware, lets waste cycles on $crap' attitude :/12:02
Romstertrue, code gets more sloppy when faster cpus12:02
Romsteri'm actually agreeing with tilman for /once/12:03
tilmanlinXea: (developers' attitude, not yours ;)12:04
linXeaI am not disagreeing.. just stating a fact12:04
teK_btw anyone using chromium?12:05
Romstera little12:05
Amnesia_ffs shit is hitting the fans over here12:05
teK_the last flash update broke that for you, too?12:05
Romsternothing wrong with a DE just sloppy code on faster cpus.12:06
teK_I switched to libpepflash with _desastrous_ performance (Intel card => no vdpau)12:06
Romsterhaven't bumped my flash version yet.12:06
teK_expect fuck up :p12:06
Romsteri'm reluctant to now that i've been reading that12:07
teK_well it's a security update..12:07
teK_so you're screwed either way12:07
Romsterfix security or not work at all12:07
tilmanlibpepflash is chrome's flash?12:08
teK_and it won't detect it automatically as it does with libflashplayer.so12:08
teK_oh and HTML5 video sucks, too12:09
Romsterwhere all doomed12:09
Amnesia_you folks should use youtube-dl.py12:16
rmullOr cclive12:18
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frinnst"We want to attract hundreds of thousands of web developers [to work] on Firefox OS," says Nitot.12:22
frinnstweb developers writing an operating system. what could go wrong?12:22
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teK_with php being their scripting/shell language xD12:23
horrorStruckyou guys are always pessimistic. imagine a boot process with flashing .gif logos12:24
tilmanwhat is this whole web app shit anyway? when will it stop?12:24
linXeafacebookOS, anyone ?12:26
linXea... oh the horror..12:26
horrorStruckthey were supposed to release a facebook phone anyway... will be running "their OS" I guess12:27
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jaegerthe web os thing's already been done, anyway12:50
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joacim#crux-old-grouchy-men ;)12:59
joacimhorrorStruck: i assume they'd make something based on android. a bit like amazon.13:00
poulecacaI do have 2 microsoft's ESP partition (when I mount them I see a EFI directory)13:02
poulecacaI guess this is for the Windows RE partition but wtf13:03
jaegerlinXea: why do you say mate's dead? I'm not a mate dev or involved with them but I'm curious13:04
jaegerer, a dead end13:04
linXea^^ dead end..13:22
linXeanot dead.. but I very much doubt it has a solid future13:22
jaegerWhy do you think that?13:23
deeplloydwebOS ?13:23
deeplloyd[download win8 90 trail] plug it into vmware player. its windows 8 (eight) and these guys (MS) have been doin this for decades. This should blow their previous versions away. .... I don't even get to login before I get a typical, useless, error message "Windows cannot read the <> setting from the unattend answer file" -- im so shocked im not even shocked13:25
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rmullIs there an emerge -e equivalent, maybe a quick script?22:10
rmullprt-get listinst has what I need, thanks22:11
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