IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2012-09-05

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veeyea, still cant decide what to go with...01:00
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sepenhi01:23
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: gnutls: updated to 3.1.101:23
frinnstreiserfs is a dead-end01:47
frinnstliterally :)01:47
sepenHans Reiser http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/07/linux-guru-returns-to-court/01:51
veei see what you did there01:52
cruxbot[xfce.git/2.7]: xfce4-timer-plugin: updated to 1.0.002:00
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veewoot woot ordering my laptop today02:38
veefinally, an upgrade from a p4 to an i7, and this time, no one will take it away xD02:38
frinnstwhy a laptop?02:39
frinnstI really dont understand it. sure if you're always on the move... but keyboards, screen and upgradeabilities suck02:39
frinnstalso, expensive :)02:39
frinnstbig screen + comfy ergonomics ftw02:40
* nogagplz_ orders frinnst an internet toilet02:43
veelol internet toilet02:44
veewell, i need something that i can take to school, to work, and, have it be light02:45
veethough i hope, down the road, i can build my own internet toilet, with all the parts i desire haha02:45
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lundmarNice to see Crux is still around. I was here last in 2004 ^^04:00
frinnst\o/04:01
lundmar:)04:01
frinnstmost things are the same :)04:01
lundmarif it ain't broke don't change it :)04:02
lundmaris there a 2.8 release coming?04:07
acrux'morning (CET)04:17
lundmarmorning there04:17
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klrhi, is it possible to install a newer kernel? im installing crux 64-bit and is about to compile the kernel, any tips ? (ive never compiled linux before)07:12
poulecacajust download a newer kernel source and compile as you would have done it for an elder one07:16
poulecaca+it07:17
klrpoulecaca: do i need to select the drivers for my hardware with "menuconfig" or do it select most common drivers and modules by default?07:18
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poulecacanot you have to configure it yourself. But if you have a elder kernel config, make oldconfig can help you07:21
poulecacano*07:21
klrokey, i searched for a good guide but couldnt find anyone, do you know any good that explain the stuff, i really wanna learn how to configure it?07:25
poulecacaa good guide to do what ? Kernel Configuration ?07:26
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klryou might think im stupid, but idk if this is complex and difficult? ive never compiled linux before, sry07:29
klri just try and see whay happens...07:32
poulecacaI don't think you are stupid :)). Kernel compilation process is pretty simple. But kernel optimisation tuning is long and fastidious07:33
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poulecacaIf you just don't care and want generic seed you can have a look at kernelseeds.org07:34
poulecacaThis can be a kernel conf basis and you can try to remove/add some features and see if you can still boot ;)07:35
poulecacaThat's, imho, the best way to learn07:35
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klrrpoupelaca: thanks07:37
klrri want to make this super awesome config but i dont know how xd07:38
klrris it possible to install another kernel even if i install the default one at first?07:39
frinnstyes07:40
poulecacayes you can have several kernel image at once07:40
frinnstdepending on your hardware you can usually pretty much use the config from the ISO as a base07:40
frinnstthere are some critical components that must be included (and not as modules!): your filesystem (ext4 or whatever), your sata/scsi/ide driver (often ahci on newish sata-hardware) and also make sure scsi-disk is included07:41
frinnstand devtmpfs07:41
klrri just install crux first then so i can check on the internet while configuring, it is really annoying being on the phone atm :/07:42
klrrok07:42
klrrwhere do i add them with "menuconfig"?07:43
frinnstit just requires basic knowledge of the hardware you are using and some logical thinking really07:43
frinnstyou can search with /07:43
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frinnstshould give you the path07:43
poulecacaand ? will provide you a description of the feature07:43
klrridk how to make a "?" the keyboard isent swedish layout xd07:44
frinnst- knappen tror jag07:44
frinnstor use "loadkeys sv-latin1" :)07:44
poulecacaloadkeys07:44
klrrokey tack/thanks07:45
poulecacagood luck, and have fun :))07:46
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lundmardon't forget, make oldconfig is your friend.07:47
klrrthanks, i skipped school to have time doing this :P07:47
frinnst:>07:48
klrrwhat does "deprecated" mean? it stands that with higher case letters next to thr ahci driver07:49
frinnstthat a replacement exists07:50
frinnstbut not for ahci?07:50
frinnstwhat kernel are you using?07:50
klrrwait looked wrong line xd sry07:50
klrrdefault 2.6 that are in the 64 bit iso07:50
cruxbot[core.git/2.7]: sudo: update to 1.8.607:50
cruxbot[core.git/2.7]: util-linux-ng: update to 2.2207:50
cruxbot[core.git/2.7]: less: upate to 45107:50
klrrwill it compile into arch/x86 dir even if it is for 64 bit processor?07:53
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: msmtp: update to 1.4.2907:54
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: sqlite3: update to 3.7.1407:54
frinnstyeah, but doesnt matter07:54
frinnstjust use "make install" to copy the kernel to the right place :)07:54
frinnstalso dont forget "make modules_install"07:54
poulecacafrinnst: you sure the bzimage is not in arch/x86_64/ ?07:55
frinnstits a symlink07:55
poulecacaindeed, my bad :)07:55
Romsteri never use make install it's always cp System.map /boot/ ; cp arch/x86_64/boot/bzImage /boot/vmlinuz07:55
klrrokey, after ive done "make all" i should do "make install"?07:55
Romsteri do use make modules_install though.07:56
frinnstmake && make modules_install && make install07:56
Romsterklrr, first kenrel you've ever built?07:56
frinnstmy usual dance :)07:56
klrryes07:56
klrrthanks but first, coffee :P07:56
Romstergood luck then it took me ages to get my first one working.07:56
frinnstRomster: make install does that, and also runs "lilo". and renames the existing kernel to .old07:57
klrrdo i have to remove the .old one?08:01
frinnstno why, its a good fallback if you screw up the new kernel config :)08:02
frinnstjust add a entry for vmlinuz.old (or whatever) to your bootloader08:03
klrrbut im on livecd doing new fresh install does it really install both old and new kernel? sounds bloaty =o08:04
jaegerI don't use 'make install' but I'd guess it's not so much installing the old kernel as moving it to have a backup08:05
jaegerperhaps I'm mistaken08:05
poulecacawhen you don't have old kernel it only install the first one ;)08:05
poulecacabackuping nothing, I guess08:06
klrrhmm, my i only made 1 partion, how should i edit my lilo, can i add sda1 as both boot and root?08:06
jaegerunless you've got an unusual layout or dual boot, boot is likely going to be sda and root sda108:07
klrrok thanks08:07
klrrok i reboot now and hope it works08:08
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klrrkernel panic :(08:09
klrrgod i hate only have one computer, then you cant check stuff up while installing :/08:11
frinnstunable to mount root vfs?08:12
klrrsome module couldnt load i think08:12
poulecacaIt would be a miracle if you had boot ok for your first kernel compilation ;)08:13
frinnstyeah you need to build some stuff NOT as modules08:13
klrrokej08:13
frinnstremember, the modules are files that reside on your filesystem08:13
klrrill try again08:13
poulecacafor example your root filesystem should not be a module08:13
frinnstergo your filesystem muist be included in the kernel08:13
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frinnstfilesystem, sata-controller and scsi-disk must *not* be built as modules also08:14
klrrare there any better fs than ext4, is btrfs aviable?08:14
frinnstyes but you dont want that for now :)08:14
poulecaca:)))08:14
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klrrokey ill double check everything this time08:14
frinnstits very experimental, there are bootloader issues etc08:14
klrrok08:15
* pedja uses jfs08:15
klrrive heard it is like zfs08:15
* frinnst uses btrfs08:15
klrrcool08:15
* poulecaca use reiserfs08:15
pedjafrinnst: you brave, brave man :)08:15
klrris it better compared to ext4?08:15
frinnstpedja: I have about 5TB on btrfs :)08:16
poulecacahaha08:16
pedja2Tb on jfs :)08:16
frinnstklrr: not yet08:16
klrrhehe08:16
frinnstit still has performance issues and obvious reliability issues08:16
klrrok08:17
frinnststill, it has survived everything i've thrown at it08:17
pedjawhich of the fs has SSD support?08:17
pedjatrim etc.08:17
* frinnst touches wood08:17
frinnstbtrfs, ext408:17
frinnstprobably xfs08:17
frinnstand swap :)08:18
pedjaheh08:18
pedjayay, package rage08:18
jaegernilfs as well08:18
klrrdoes ports or pkgutils have dependency auto installation support?08:18
frinnstprt-get does, "depinst"08:19
pedjanilfs?never heard of that one.08:19
pedjahttp://www.nilfs.org/en/about_nilfs.html08:20
klrrokey good, ive used slackware and it is really annoying with dep hell sometimes xd08:20
pedjalooks interesting.08:20
jaegerpedja: haven't used it, myself, I just remember it from the early TRIM support docs08:23
klrris an uncompressed kernel faster? i have 500 gb harddrive but only use about 50 gb08:24
pedjajaeger: one day, when it moves from experimental to production, i might try it :)08:24
jaeger:)08:25
niklassweI question.. now when i have set stickybit to 2775 and create a file in that directory i got right group, but the group can only read the files.. it doesnt have any permissions to write to the file.. any what have i miss?08:25
jaegerklrr: I don't think there's any tangible difference but I can't guarantee it08:25
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klrrok08:26
klrrwhich compression decompress fastest? gzip?08:26
jaegerno idea there08:27
poulecacaThis is mentioned when you ask help for compression feature08:27
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klrrok ty08:28
poulecacabut don't remember whihc one08:28
poulecacawhich*08:28
pedjaklrr: afaict, uncompressed kernel would only improve boot time, but not much.08:28
klrrok08:29
klrri want fast boot since i dont use hibernate or suspend :) and also to mess with my dad he use windows08:29
pedjawell, crux boots really fast :)08:31
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klrrgood, i had arch before but dhcpcd is so slow and grub too08:33
pedjauncompressed kernel is more trouble that it is worth, imho08:33
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pedjaand i don't know if lilo/grub can even boot it.if you want fast boot, get a SSD :)08:34
klrrokey, but i dont got money, im saving for a 125 supermoto :P08:35
pedjaheh08:37
Romsterfrinnst, ah i got like vmlinuz-3.5.3  vmlinuz-2.6.34 etc for that and many more that i should prune.08:38
klrri've saved money in 2 years now :)08:39
pedjabuy a helmet, too :)08:39
pedjamy nephew had an accident few days ago, he has bruises, but he is alive.for now...08:40
klrri gonna try to get my parents buy helmet and such for x-mas and the bike is very old(cant afford new one) so i have to buy some new parts for it propably08:41
pedjayou'll learn a lot fixing it.08:42
klrr:)08:42
klrrcoolest things in life: wheelie a motorbike, knowing everything abot *nix and be a awesome programmer08:43
klrr:D08:43
pedja'Unix?I know this.' </quote>08:44
frinnsthttp://i.imgur.com/deysR.gif08:44
pedjabbl08:45
klrrwhat happen in the gif? i cant view it08:45
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-xf86-video-openchrome: 0.3.0 -> 0.3.108:46
sepenklrr: I can08:46
klrrok08:46
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klrrfrinnst: can you say the vital drivers when i install linux again plz?08:47
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sepenps ax08:52
sepenooops, sorry wrong window08:53
frinnstfilesystem, disk-controller, scsi-disk support and devtmpfs08:53
klrrthanks08:53
frinnstcan you tell us what hardware you are installing on?08:53
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.7]: libvdpau: 20120521 -> 0.508:54
klrrasus laptop intel 64 bit i3 , ati hd5145(it is a rebranded older card) i dont know the rest tbh :/08:54
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frinnstyou probably want this in your kernel .config: CONFIG_EXT4_FS=y CONFIG_SATA_AHCI=y CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SD=y CONFIG_DEVTMPFS=y CONFIG_DEVTMPFS_MOUNT=y08:55
Romsterand SCSI support08:56
klrrtack :), need to hurry though my parents is home soon...08:56
Romsterklrr, you can search in make menuconfig with / text <enter>08:57
klrrokey thanks08:57
klrrlol i dont find blk_dev_sd , i searched and it should be under /device drivers/scsi but it arent :/09:01
frinnstyou need to uppercase it caps-lock is your friend :)09:03
klrrokey09:03
klrrsame search results09:03
klrrstill isent in that menu09:03
frinnstsearch for "SCSI disk support"09:04
frinnstor just navigate to Device Drivers -> SCSI device support09:04
klrri did09:04
frinnstDepends on: SCSI [=y]09:05
klrrrhere is several scsi, ive press =y on the generic one and cdrom one09:06
frinnstthe disk part is the one most critical09:06
klrraa okey thanks09:07
Romsterdon't enable the generic disk driver with your specific driver that always causes problems.09:10
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cruxbot[core.git/2.7]: sudo: fixed md5sum, silent file update by upstream, thanks Romster09:32
sepenlol09:33
Romstercool, thanks jue lol09:34
frinnst/dev/shm: Permission denied ? fucking chromium09:34
Romsterg'night all09:36
frinnstAMD64 Surpasses i386 As Debian's Most Popular Architecture09:40
frinnstzomg!!09:40
joacim201209:46
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-xf86-video-nouveau: initial release09:58
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juejaeger: guess the nouveau driver is a candidate for inclusion on our ISO?10:05
jaegerI'm not all that familiar with it, honestly, but if you think so I'm fine with it10:05
jueyeah, works well for we, at least in 2D mode10:07
juebu no mesa support yet, this needs mesa 8.1 or so10:08
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jaegerok10:08
klradduser10:11
klrcommand not found...10:11
klrclear10:11
frinnstuseradd..10:11
klrok10:12
klrthanks :)10:12
poulecacauseradd10:12
poulecacaoops10:12
klrim stupid cd10:12
frinnsttoo slow!10:12
poulecaca:)10:12
klrxD*10:12
frinnstmuhahahhahahahahahhahahaha10:12
* poulecaca prostate in submission10:13
klrwhops....10:26
jaegers/prostate/prostrate/10:27
jaegerI'll just leave that there10:27
rmulllol.10:47
jaegerperfect example of how the english language hates you10:48
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klrcan i connect to the net while in the chroot /mnt when installing?11:31
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jaegeryes, if you load the proper kernel module and copy /etc/resolv.conf into /mnt/etc/11:34
klrhmm, sounds hard, is it difficult?11:35
jaegernot if you know what module you need11:36
klrjmicron is the device name i believe11:38
klrgod wish i had a second computer to search it up11:38
jaegeryou can run lspci to find out11:38
jaegerlspci | grep -i eth11:38
klryeah i did that but i still dont know the modules name11:40
jaegerwhat's the device?11:40
jaegerif it's already loaded, 'lspci -k' will show which module is used for which device11:41
klrjmicron technology cotp. jmc250 pci express gigabit eth controller11:41
jaegerI think that one uses jme11:42
jaegernot sure, though, first time I've ever seen one11:42
klryes i think that to, ok how do i copy resolv.conf and load the module? :) (ty btw)11:43
jaegermodprobe jme11:43
jaegerthen configure the interface with dhcpcd or static, then cp /etc/resolv.conf /mnt/etc/11:44
klrfrom the chroot /mnt or from another tty?11:45
jaegerfrom another tty or before you go into the chroot11:48
klrbut ive already chrooted , do i have to go out and then chroot again?11:49
klrit works :D thank you very much11:50
jaegernp11:50
klr can i use /usr/src to compile linux3.5? it stands in the readme to not use it but im not sure if they mean /usr/src or /usr/src/linux?12:16
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v33hey guys23:29
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