IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2012-11-23

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vee_i was looking at the macbook air, but, went with the w110er. light, small, but a powerhouse :)00:05
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prologicis there a nice lightweight dns cacher/forwarder I can install that will:00:14
prologicallow me to resolve *.local (on my local router) and *.shortcircuit.net.au (on a remote router) ?00:14
jaegerprologic: dnsmasq might do both00:22
jaegervee_: apple's UEFI is a mix of 2.x and 1.x specifications but should work fine with refit, refind, or grub2, maybe others00:22
prologicjaeger, yeah looking at it now :)00:22
prologicyou do just point your /etc/resolv.conf to 127.0.0.1 once dnsmasq is configured right?00:23
jaegerIf you use grub2 or some other EFI loader it needs to be named specifically - bootia32.efi for 32-bit, bootx64.efi for 64-bit00:23
jaegerprologic: probably00:23
jaegeralternatively you can use an EFI loader by itself instead of using the apple bootloader but it's a bit less safe unless you know you have things working properly00:25
jaegerbest bet is refit or refind because you have the most options there00:25
jaegerhfs+ or fat, finds partitions automatically, etc.00:26
jaegereasy recovery if something is set up wrong00:26
jaegeranyway, going to sleep00:26
prologicbeautiful00:36
prologicdnsmasq does the trick00:36
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diverseif SSDs ever got cheap and large enough, would you use them for data storage or not?00:42
diverseis the reason why users use SSD for OS files, because of the cost?00:42
diversealso what happen to the emulators collection in ports?00:44
nogagplz_emulators is horribly out of date01:03
nogagplz_emulators-i686 was bumped just the other day but they both need more love01:04
vee_good night jaeger. guess i should check out a grub2 for apple tutorial01:21
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diversenogagplz: will they be updated?02:21
diversenogagplz_: ^02:23
nogagplz_diverse: yes I will get to it sooner or later02:30
nogagplz_just got some other crap to take care of first02:30
diversenogagplz_: take your time, as long as there is a plan :)02:30
frinnstwow, installing xp is depressing02:32
prologicdiverse, yes I would02:32
prologicI'd use them in a ZFS SAN02:32
diverseprologic: SAN?02:32
prologicStorage Area Network02:33
prologicor NAS02:33
prologicsame diff ihmo02:33
frinnstyeah the definitions have gotten a bit murkey02:33
Kaishiprologic: wildly different implementations with wildly different purposes02:33
Kaishiboth are "storage within the network" but there's very little similarity beyond that02:34
KaishiSANs are block-level devices02:34
frinnstKaishi: well, not really these days02:34
KaishiNAS implies filesystem-level02:34
frinnstlots of sans use nfs02:34
diverseprologic: either way, that tells me you trust it on a high level for storage if you are going to do that.02:34
Kaishilots of "sans" inefficiently use NFS02:34
frinnstnfs > iscsi02:35
prologicyeah sorry dude02:35
prologicI don't agree02:35
frinnstatleast with netapp02:35
frinnstand vmware02:35
prologicSAN/NAS are almost (or can be) the same thing02:35
prologicand if you're talking ZFS (which I was)02:35
prologicthen that's totally true02:35
KaishiZFS is the way to roll02:35
prologicas ZFS is a block-level stoage02:35
prologicofc :002:35
KaishiZFS is the only way to fly02:35
Kaishi:302:35
prologiccouldn't agree more02:35
diversealthough ZFS is not native (yet) on Linux.02:35
prologicexcept maybe btrfs02:35
prologicwhen it becomes more feature rich and more stable02:36
frinnstand never will be diverse02:36
diverse:(02:36
frinnstbtrfs is epic02:36
frinnsta bit slow at the moment02:36
prologicyeah it never will be02:36
prologicbtrfs is the zfs-like equivilent02:36
frinnstbtrfs is zfs done right :)02:36
Kaishi... what02:36
diverseI suppose I have to rely on btrfs for SSD storage02:36
prologichaha02:36
Kaishibtrfs still isn't stable02:36
KaishiZFS has been stable for over a decade02:36
Kaishiclearly, btrfs is inferior02:36
prologicI have hw specs for a ZFS-based NAS/SAN fi you guys wants a copy02:36
prologicit's a 24-bay rack mounted spec02:37
Kaishiprologic: already own it02:37
Kaishi:302:37
frinnstyeah btrfs is a bit hacky at the moment.. but oracle already support it :)02:37
Kaishibut I'm running Opterons rather than the more common xeons02:37
diverseKaishi: that is like saying Windows is inferior just because UNIX has been around for a long time. Well that is true as well, but you get the point. :P02:37
Kaishi2x 612802:37
Kaishidiverse: btrfs may, someday, be better than ZFS02:38
prologicWindows is inferior02:38
prologicbut not because UNIX has been around longer :)02:38
Kaishibut as for "zfs done right" I'm calling bullshit02:38
prologicit's just inferior02:38
frinnstbtrfs is stable enough for daily use, depending on what features you need02:38
Kaishizfs is stable enough for enterprise use, regardless of your featureset02:38
diverseprologic: i was making a joke :P02:38
prologicfrinnst, probably not recommended in use for a NAS yet tthought right?02:38
prologicdiverse, I was being serious :)02:39
* prologic hasn't used Windows in over 12 years02:39
frinnstprologic: no, of course not02:39
diversewow, nice.02:39
KaishiI run windows on 2/3 of my systems, but my core services are all running POSIX backends of some flavor02:39
KaishiNAS is OpenIndiana02:39
prologicFreeNAs looks good02:39
frinnstwe've played a bit with nexenta02:39
Kaishigateway is freebsd (pfsense)02:39
prologicthat's what I plan to use02:39
KaishiI'm not a fan of FreeNAS because they lag way behind02:40
prologicyeah02:40
prologicfor the features I'll be using though02:40
prologicthat won't matter so much02:40
KaishiZFS pre-poolv28 is literally irrelevant today02:40
Kaishisimply do not use it02:40
Kaishithere are enough ways to get poolv2802:40
Kaishiand freenas still doesn't have it, last I checked02:41
Kaishiwhich is unfortunate02:41
Kaishi(my girlfriend just said, "oh steve, I guess somebody is /wrong/ on the internet, eh?"02:41
Kaishi)02:41
diverseoh but FreeBSD started support poolv28 in version 902:41
diverse*supporting02:41
Kaishisupport has been backported to 8.3 as I understand it02:41
Kaishibut freenas is on like... something godawful02:41
prologicFreeNAS is based on FreeBSD02:42
Kaishiyeah02:42
KaishiI meant02:42
Kaishilast I checked, they were pretty far back in kernel versions02:42
Kaishiand didn't have that zfs backporting02:42
prologicyeah02:42
prologicnot lately02:42
prologicworth checking again I say :)02:42
Kaishiit's a great idea and a great webui02:42
Kaishibut02:42
Kaishizfs poolv28 is more important than other things imo02:43
KaishiI need sleep02:43
Kaishigood luck in your posix travels, fellow zfs bro02:43
Kaishi:302:43
prologicg'night02:44
prologicI'm guessing zfs poolv28 refers to a zfs pool version implemtnation02:44
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frinnstwtf, how the hell do you add a network printer in xp? :D02:52
diversewhy are you using xp?02:53
frinnstneed to recreate something stupid a customer is seeing02:54
frinnstso, in order to connect to a network printer in xp, you must select "local printer" instead of "network printer" and then create a new tcp/ip port..02:55
frinnsthttp://uis.georgetown.edu/software/documentation/winxp/winxp.network.printer.html02:56
frinnsthow logical02:56
prologiceh03:02
prologicnothing in windows is ever logical03:02
prologichaha03:02
prologicI hope you're doing this in a virtual machine :003:03
diverseprologic: what about the registry?03:03
diverse:P03:03
prologicthe registry is a glorified directory structure of ini files03:03
prologic:)03:03
prologicquite frankly I prefer the later03:03
prologicala /etc03:03
diversehaha03:03
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teK__prologic: then you might give Linux or one of the BSDs a try03:19
teK__I heard they are quite awesome03:19
diverseawesome and logical03:25
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frinnstanybody see X corruptions with the intel driver?03:36
pshevtsovfrinnst: What do you mean by X corruptions. I use intel driver and everything seems fine.03:40
pshevtsovs/corruptions./corruptions?/03:41
teK__me too yet I'm still on 2.703:41
frinnstyeah i seem to be the only one :/03:54
frinnst82Q33 chipset03:55
prologicteK__, is that a joke? :)04:04
diverseit a joke, he wouldn't have said so.04:07
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teK__no it is not. Still busy finishing my thesis.05:01
teK__yet all my ports should be uptodate so be happy ;)05:01
prologicteK__, but I do use LInux?05:11
teK__cool 8)05:11
prologicI know right :)05:11
diversei thought that was the joke you were referring :)05:11
prologicit's like this magical fairy land05:12
prologicI dunno I'm lost ;)05:12
diverseprologic: the linux one, not his 2.7 issue.05:12
prologicoh I dunno what we're talking about now :)05:14
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joacimthese new computer things are strange. it seems like i no longer need my root filesystem defined in fstab.08:06
jaegerdiverse: regarding native zfs, have you seen http://zfsonlinux.org/ ?08:06
joacimboots fine with my sda5 (root filesystem) commented out.08:07
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diversejaeger: interesting, thanks for showing me :)08:12
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jaegerdiverse: np08:24
Kaishiprologic: you still here?08:26
KaishiI wanna give you an explanation of why the windows registry is kinda a good idea, or why it was at one time.08:27
Kaishiyes, it's kinda like a huge directory structure of little settings, but it is stored as 3 objects on disk, compressed in some form, and thereby able to be put into memory in a very small number of operations.08:28
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Kaishiit reduces disk I/O upon launching a program because all the program's settings could|should|would already be in memory08:29
Kaishithe registry has ACLs just like a folder structure would, and each user account has its chunk of the registry which is only loaded when that user is logged in.08:30
KaishiIt has some legitimate merits, but if you don't know how or why it is organized, it can be a huge burden to even look at.08:31
Kaishithere's even an encrypted chunk for storage of certificates, saved passwords, and private security-related configuration settings.08:33
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KaishiSorry for being an OS nerd.  I actually like almost all the major platforms today, each with their respective merits.08:35
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joacimcan someone confirm that it is safe to remove sda5 (/) from fstab? my system boots fine without it, but i dont want to remove it if it breaks something.09:37
frinnstwhat?09:38
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joacimwhat i thought.09:39
frinnst:)09:39
frinnstim surprised it gets remounted properly09:40
frinnsti suppose since we use the kernel mtab these days it inherits the rootfs-partition from the bootloader09:40
joacimdf lists rootfs and /dev/root as mounted on /. no /dev/sda5 (regardless if it is listed in fstab or not)09:40
frinnstbut it will set the default mountoptions and possibly other stupidities09:41
frinnstyes but "mount" will list /dev/sda5, yes?09:41
frinnstmaybe not09:41
frinnstwell, anyways if you have *any* options you'll need your rootfs in fstab09:42
frinnstmountoptions that is09:42
joacimthe only difference between mtab and fstab is that fstab has data=ordered in its options09:42
joacimmount does not list sda5, but this system is booted with my root-line in fstab commented09:43
frinnstyes, because you pass root= to the bootloader09:43
joacimindeed09:43
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frinnstand since mtab is a symlink to /proc/kernel-mtab-thingy-whatever it will remain even without a fstab entry09:44
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frinnstbut just because your system boots without it, doenst mean it's a good idea to remove it :)09:44
joacimthis new stuff is confusing09:44
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joacimyeah i dont want to remove it unless someone can confirm that it is safe to remove it =)09:45
joacimi dont want some random update to break this functionality09:45
frinnstI cant think of a reason why it would be a good idea to remove it. I suggest you keep it09:46
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guzzanoHi! i have problem with my wifi, i compiled in the kernel my driver, and iwlist say (iwlist wlan0 scan): wlan0 INterface doesn't support scanning, somebody?15:06
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prologichmmm15:48
diverseguzzano: did you turn on your wifi?16:09
guzzanodiverse, yes16:11
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diverseguzzano: you might not have the right drivers installed.16:35
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diversesup Kaishi17:58
Kaishihey dude :)17:59
Kaishihow's it going?17:59
diverseworking on a presentation.18:01
Kaishiwork / school / hobby / fun?18:01
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diverseKaishi: school18:16
diverseanyone using e17?18:22
jaegerguzzano: try upping the interface before scanning? ifconfig wlan0 up, no need to set an IP or anything18:38
jaegerdiverse: not recently, have used it in the past18:38
guzzanojeager, ready, eth0 is up and nothing, i think it's the kernel config18:40
jaegeron my work laptop I always have to up the interface before it'll scan but it doesn't happen on my personal one, was just a guess18:47
prologicif this is dhcpcd18:52
prologicyou tried /sbin/dhcpcd -d eth018:52
prologic?18:52
diverseyou mean dhcpcd -d wlan0?18:59
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prologicyeah19:00
prologicI'm interested to see what you get back19:00
prologicif anything19:00
prologicI'm pretty intimately familiar with wired and wireless networks :)19:01
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diversejaeger: what WM do you use now?21:24
jaegermarco (mate) currently21:24
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vee_really want a blue switch mechanical keyboard23:24
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diversevee_: cherry blue?23:27
diversethose make hell of a lot of noise.23:27
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vee_yes i know, but they type so nice23:33
diversevee_: do you also game a lot?23:34
vee_not really, occasionally23:35
diversealright, it might be a good bet for you.23:35
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unterwulfHi. There is a bug on the ports page of the crux.nu website. P F M links of ports from (semi)official repos still refer to files from release 2.7. Download command is OK.23:41
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