IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2013-01-19

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prologic$ echo $TERM00:29
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horrorStruckanyone else seeing image corruption in gimp with latest cairo?00:46
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ROKO__is there gnome desktop ?00:52
ROKO__or any desktops for 3.0 ?00:52
prologicyou can pick from kde, gnome, mate or xfce400:54
prologiccheck the ports collections at
ROKO__okay i will see.00:57
ROKO__btw where crux download the distfiles ?00:57
ROKO__because of01:00
ROKO__Connecting to||:80... connected.01:00
ROKO__HTTP request sent, awaiting response... Read error (Connection reset by peer) in headers.01:00
ROKO__i want to download manually htop archive.01:00
tilmanthe default download location is /usr/ports/opt/htop in this case01:01
tilmansee 'man pkgmk.conf' on how to change it01:01
ROKO__so i couldn't find mate or gnome in
horrorStruckisn't gnome unmaintained and broken nowadays?01:03
horrorStruckROKO__: see from mate01:04
c0xis there a list of key differences, which explains the need for bump version from 2.x to 3?01:05
tilmanc0x: read the announcement?01:06
ROKO__in pkgmk.conf is it possible like in gentoo to set MAKEOPTS ?01:07
tadzikMAKEFLAGS, iirc01:07
tilmanROKO__: this is what i have01:07
tilmanoh, mmh01:08
ROKO__tilman: okay01:08
c0xtilman, oh, yes, of course01:08
ROKO__and in case i'm on vbox guest, if i set -Os instead of -O2 ?01:08
ROKO__it will broke compille or not ?01:08
tilmanwhy would it? :p01:08
tilmanif you want -Os, use -Os01:09
tilmanif you want -O9, use -O9 ;)01:09
ROKO__so no troubles with it ?01:09
tilmanc0x: going from x86 to x86_64 w/ multilib was considered a big enough change to go to v3 :)01:09
tilmanROKO__: no troubles01:09
c0xtoolchain and x86_64? hmm..01:09
ROKO__my goal is for low memory/cpu usage because guest with 1GB ram and 1 cpu core.01:09
ROKO__and last01:09
ROKO__but important01:10
ROKO__how can recompille whole packages with new flags ?01:10
tilmanprt-get update nameofpackage01:10
horrorStruckmaybe ROKO__ is thinking about all installed ports. prt-get update $(prt-get listinst) -fr should work01:11
tadzikis there a way to install crux 3 from the usb drive?01:12
ROKO__horrorStruck: okay thanks01:13
tilmantadzik: read the announcement D E R P01:13
c0xhas long been using x86_64 from + latest "stable" 3.x from with no problem and 3.0 introduces no difference for me01:15
horrorStruckwell, updated toolchain+multilib01:16
tilmanc0x: i guess you could consider 3.0 the ' merge' if you wish ;)01:16
ROKO__Ports collection for MATE Desktop Environment on CRUX Linux01:17
ROKO__(Trunk is for CRUX 2.8)01:17
ROKO__there is not for 3.001:17
horrorStruckconsidering 3.0 has been announced 12 hours ago...01:17
c0xtilman, only 11 ports in x86_64 ;)01:17
horrorStruckand mate is not really "official"01:17
tilmanc0x: what's your point?01:18
horrorStruckROKO__: anyway, i'm not using mate but it should work with 3.0 as well (maybe some issues with current automake IIRC)01:19
ROKO__so in portdb 3.0 repos not present as i see.01:19
horrorStruckROKO__: ask jaeger_ when he's around, he's on 3.0 and using mate01:20
c0xtilman, just an old man grumbling, never mind ;)01:21
tadziktilman: argh, sorry. I must be still sleeping01:21
cruxbot[opt.git/2.8]: firefox: updated to 18.0.101:28
tilmanwhere's treach anyway?01:30
tilman(speaking of old grumpy men ;)01:30
frinnstdunno, not seen him for a long while01:31
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ROKO__there is a vbox-guest utilities in crux repos ?01:49
ROKO__or must from virtualbox guest iso ?01:49
prologicdo it yourself?01:52
ROKO__i will01:54
prologicCRUX is very easy :)01:57
ROKO__so i am calculate linux devel (gentoo based)01:57
ROKO__and crux is not in my favorites @_@01:58
prologicwell it should be :)01:58
prologicother than LFS, CRUX has the most minimalistic architecture :)01:58
prologictherefore "easy"01:58
prologicI think I'm mixing up my latin terms heh01:59
prologicI think I mean CRUX is "simple"01:59
prologicbut not necessarily "easy" - depending on your experience with OSS01:59
horrorStruckin a way CRUX is even simpler than LFS since it's using BSD-style init02:01
prologicI agree02:02
prologicand to clarify, by "simple" I mean the opposite to "complex"02:02
ROKO__but crux is small.02:03
prologicDebian, Ubuntu, CentOS, RHE are considered IHMO "complex"02:03
ROKO__no packages for it.02:03
prologicwell I can't agree with that :)02:03
ROKO__in gentoo/calculate tree we have about 17 00002:03
prologichave you checked out ?02:03
horrorStruckROKO__: OTOH, packaging for CRUX is dead simple02:03
prologicROKO__, and about 10,000 of those ports are just utter crap :002:03
prologiccheck out
prologicfolks around here maintain quite a lot of useful ports02:04
horrorStruckprologic: how are nights? 2-3 hours sleep in a row max?02:04
prologicyeah mostly02:04
horrorStruckhehe, been there02:04
prologicalthough I'm getting enough sleep most nights02:04
prologicbut my wife doesn't seem to be atm02:04
prologicso we're trying to work it out such that I stay up late and feed the lil one02:05
prologicthen go to back at like 1am or so02:05
horrorStruckusing bottles or bf?02:05
prologicjust so she (my wife) gets a few more hours sleep02:05
prologicbf - but express so I can feed her late at night02:05
horrorStruckah bottles obviously02:05
prologicie: not formula02:05
prologicwe refuse to feed our kid crap :)02:05
horrorStruckwise decision02:06
prologicROKO__, have you read the CRUX Handbook?02:06
prologicThat is all you need to know about CRUX - ever.02:06
ROKO__so where can take overview of crux packaging02:06
prologiccrux's packaging is basically this:02:07
prologicthanks horrorStruck :)02:07
prologicI was going to say02:07
prologicPkgfile - essentially a bash script02:07
prologicand binary packages built from ports which are basically tarballs02:07
prologicit doesn't get more complicated than that I'm afraid :)02:07
ROKO__so and gentoo ebuild is shell script02:08
ROKO__but is different02:08
horrorStruckhandbook, man prt-get{,.conf} and man pkgmk{,.conf} will cover 99.99% of your needs.02:10
prologicHere you go02:11
prologicIn the tradition of "Hello World!"
prologicThe simplest CRUX port/package you could ever create02:12
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pitillocongrats guys. Thank you very much for your good job03:00
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tilmancan a i686 gcc build a x86_64 kernel? ;o04:07
tadziknmap seems to be broken:
tadzikteK_: ping04:09
frinnstno, it just builds extra stuff depending on what else you have installed04:09
frinnstsafe to ignore04:09
frinnsttek needs to get a proper build env :)04:10
teK_cruxbot quit bbecause of you frinnst!04:10
frinnstthat made me proud04:11
teK_broken seems a bit harsh, will correct soon04:11
frinnstfuck cruxbot! :)04:11
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tadzikbroken as in "oh noes, I can't install"04:11
teK_frinnst: it rejoined because you liked it parting!04:11
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: nmap: remove nmap-update from footprint04:17
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.8]: nmap: remove nmap-update from footprint04:19
tadzikRomster: are you sure your gtk-engine-clearlooks md5 is alright?04:52
tadzikor maybe it is, and SF gives me borked archives :/04:53
Amnesiawould one of you folks know how to change leds? (setleds isn't an option), my keyboard doesn't have a caps lock indication led, and I'd like the mute led to be used for it04:57
Amnesiaif not, I'll just disable the key^^04:59
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tadzikmike_k: djvulibre doesn't seem to build here:
mike_ktadzik: thanks. I'll take a look.05:25
tadzikawesome, thank you05:25
mike_ktadzik: CRUX-2.8, up to date?05:26
tadzikmike_k: 3.0, up-to-date05:26
mike_ktadzik: ah. that could take time for me to check (05:26
tadzikdoes it Just Work on 2.8?05:26
mike_kit is. just recompiled.05:27
mike_kplease, reconsider stealing a port maintainers )05:28
tadzikplease, no :P05:28
tadzikI don't like updates breaking everything they can05:28
frinnsttadzik: try adding "make -j1" in the pkgfile for that port05:37
frinnstlooks like a typical race condition05:37
frinnsthm, or maybe not05:37
frinnstbuilds for me05:38
tadzikon 3.0, -j1?05:40
ROKO__+ install -m 600 -o mysql -g mysql mysqld.log /usr/ports/opt/mysql/work/pkg/var/log05:42
ROKO__install: invalid user 'mysql'05:42
ROKO__=======> ERROR: Building '/usr/ports/opt/mysql/mysql#5.5.29-1.pkg.tar.xz' failed.05:42
ROKO__prt-get: error while install05:42
tadzikrunscripts, probaby05:42
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frinnsttadzik: builds ok on 3.0 without any changes05:44
frinnst=======> Building '/usr/ports/pkg/djvulibre#' succeeded.05:45
ROKO__so fix it tadzik05:45
tadzikROKO__: no, you have to fix it05:47
tadzikalso, I'm not a maintainer of anything currently :)05:47
tadzikfrinnst: hm, weird05:47
frinnstROKO__: prt-get --install-scripts depinst <port>05:48
ROKO__tadzik: so and i'm too not maintainer05:48
Rotwangoh, so 3.0 is out05:48
frinnstor add "runscripts yes" to prt-get.conf05:48
Rotwangnot so long ago I switched to 2.805:48
Rotwangwhich took me considerable amount of time05:48
horrorStrucktadzik: install librsvg and open a bug report :P05:50
frinnstwell you have the entire weekend to remedy that :)05:50
Rotwangfrinnst: how does upgrade from 2.8 x86-64 to 3.0 look?05:50
frinnstvery painless05:50
Rotwangok then05:51
frinnsteasiest is probably to run the iso and just do the upgrade05:51
tadzik2.8 was the "please, actually use the iso image" release? :)05:51
Rotwangfrinnst: that's what I'm going to do05:51
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jaegerROKO__: as you've probably figured out already, MATE hasn't been updated for 3.0 yet, 3.0 is brand new. It works fine if you downgrade the automake package to 1.12.x, otherwise you'll need to figure out how to patch for the new automake06:09
ROKO__jaeger: okay thanks06:09
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frinnstROKO__: did you manage to get mysql installed?06:12
ROKO__-- Packages installed06:12
ROKO__mysql [pre: ok]06:12
ROKO__-- installed packages with README files:06:12
ROKO__prt-get: installed successfully06:12
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mike_kwhat is a preffered format for sourceforge source check in ck4up? (these days)06:18
jaegermike_k: I'm using @SFFiles@
juethat's what I'm using:06:24
jue@SF_01RE@   /files/@NAME@/[.0-9]+|@TAR@06:24
jue@SF_01@  @SF_01RE@06:24
mike_kthanks! and what about 'source' in Pkgfile? It seems there is no good standard location?06:25
jueoh, forgot that: @TAR@  @NAME@-.*?\.tar\.[bgx]z2?06:25
tadzikare you using some SF-related hosts entiers?06:26
jueoften this works:$name/$name/$version/$name-$version.tar.xz06:27
mike_kack. I should grep the /usr/ports to find all of them )06:28
tadzikfrinnst: I think the source for epdfview is broken06:28
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tadzikor it's their website that's doing nasty redirection stuff06:30
Amnesia ><06:34
tadzikand sorry for being problematic today, but krb5 seems to be broken as well :)
tadzikor maybe I'm just a user with many problems06:35
ROKO__CMake Error at cmake/modules/FindQt4.cmake:1239 (MESSAGE):06:36
ROKO__  Qt qmake not found!06:36
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tadzikuh, I'm afraid I'll be going through this soon06:37
frinnsttadzik: works for me06:38
tadzikdamnit :/06:38
frinnsti was about to say: "Why are you telling me? im not the maintainer"06:38
frinnstthen i realized i was06:38
guzzanoHi guys, the package sysfsutils, reiserfs, are necessary if you use ext4? not true?06:38
tilmansysfsutils: necessary06:39
tilmanreiserfs: not necessary06:39
guzzanothanks! i have a list with package I do not see much needed, manp, reiser, gdbm, dcron, attr, lss, lilo (i use grub), jfsutils, its okey? or if necessary any06:42
tilmangotta go ;)06:43
horrorStrucktadzik: 1.10.2 is out of date anyway, i have this if you want:
tadzikhorrorStruck: looks good, thanks06:48
tadzikthen perhaps a bug in opt should be opened06:49
horrorStruckfor djvulibre for sure06:49
tadzikfor krb5 too06:50
tadzikit's a chromium dep06:50
horrorStruckyep, have a look at if you want extra functionality06:51
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tadzikyeah, how is yours different?06:51
tadzikperhaps there should be a Crux QA for duplicate ports, the current situation is a PITA sometimes06:52
horrorStruckability to play some files like mp3 inside the browser and not relying to much on shared libs as google does a lot of patching and is using for example libjpeg-turbo instead of libjpeg. also README states how to do proper sandboxing. these are the only diffs06:53
jueguzzano: don't remove attr, it's a dependency of acl which in turn is needed by vitual stuff like shadow and coreutils06:57
horrorStrucktadzik: i forgot, but that's just a detail, is user-friendly to use options like using pepper-based flash07:01
guzzanojue, nice, thanks07:02
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.8]: acpid: update to 2.0.1707:02
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.8]: bpython: update to 0.1207:02
jueguzzano: np, you can use 'prt-get dependent <port>' to see that07:03
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tadzikhorrorStruck: okay, I'm fine with that I guess :)07:08
tadzikmike_k: net-snmp is broken for me too :(07:09
tadzikuh, shit07:09
horrorStruckguzzano: ed and exim are required as per standards but are not always needed07:09
tadziknevermind, it's my bad it seems07:09
mike_ktadzik: thanks. I am checking/updating everything while still on 2.8. will retest later on 3.007:10
tadzikmike_k: looks like this one is a mistake no my part07:10
guzzanoThe case is to create a very minimalist. The point is to not install things that are not going to use07:11
guzzanoe.g iputils, I never use ping just a package more07:12
guzzanothank for the tips07:13
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frinnsttadzik: have you upgraded from i686?07:23
frinnstor a fresh install?07:23
frinnst/home/tadzik/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perl-5.16.0/lib/5.16.2/x86_64-linux/CORE/libperl.a: could not read symbols: Bad value <- ?07:24
tadzikfrinnst: look at the path :)07:27
tadzikit caught my $HOME Perl07:27
tadzik'su' vs 'su -'07:27
tadziknot crux fault07:28
tadzikanyone using wicd on 3.0, with no wireless problems?07:34
jaegerI've never successfully used wicd anywhere :D07:39
tadzikyeah, it's horrible, but it's only the only thing I know that usually works07:41
tadzikdo you have any alternatves, aside from using wpa_supplicant from the CLI manually?07:41
jaegerthat is what I do07:41
tadzikI see07:41
tadzikI wonder if connman could be adopted to desktop OSes as well07:42
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tadzikjue: foomatic-filters doesn't work for me on 3.0:
tadziklooks like a missing dependency07:47
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.8]: ckermit: update source url/md5sum08:04
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.8]: dcraw: update to 9.1708:04
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.8]: ebtables: update to 2.0.10-408:04
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.8]: firefox-djvu-plugin: remove port, which is practically useless08:07
juetadzik: cups installed?08:07
tadzikjue: yep08:07
tadzikand now I get sane footprint mismatches08:08
tadzikthat's probably me installing libgphoto2 before08:08
jueyeah, not an error at all08:09
juebut the foomatic issue is strange, you should get an -> checking for texttops... /usr/lib/cups/filter/texttops08:11
juedo you have that file?08:11
jueah, you got an error with cups too?08:12
tadzikpackage cups is installed08:13
tadzikI don't remember any error during the process08:13
juesorry, I was wrong, texttops is part of cups-filters since cups 1.6.x08:18
jueinstall cups-filters and try again, please08:19
tadzikI shall08:21
tadzikoh well, I installed a2ps in the meantime so it works anyway08:30
tadzikjue: yeah, that fixes it08:31
jueyou'll need cups-filters anyway08:32
tadzikI was on a long way to hplip, but the port I found doesn't build anyway08:33
cruxbot[opt.git/2.8]: foomatic-filters: new dependency cups-filters, thanks tadzik08:33
cruxbot[opt.git/2.8]: qpdf: update to 4.0.108:33
tadzikdoesn't cruxbot report 3.0?08:33
frinnsttek claims he fixed that08:35
frinnstbut i bet he just lied08:35
juemom, let's see08:36
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: foomatic-filters: new dependency cups-filters, thanks tadzik08:36
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: qpdf: update to 4.0.108:36
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: Merge branch '2.8' into 3.008:36
jueahh :)08:36
juetadzik: you saw the hpcups port? should be sufficient if you have a 'pure' HP printer08:38
tadzikjue: nope, will check it out08:39
tadzikmy printer is also a scanner08:39
tadzikor maybe I'll wait for the other 3 things to finish compiling ;)08:40
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: harfbuzz: updated to 0.9.1209:09
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Rotwangwhat a fucking retard written fontforge buildsystem?09:32
tilmanbig talk from mr. build-system-expert rotwang :>09:34
Rotwangconfigure actually does this: find / blahblah09:34
Rotwangwhat if I have 7TB nfs share mounted with godzillion of little pesky files?09:35
frinnsthaha what?09:39
Rotwangit looks for ttobjs.h09:40
Rotwangit is not a joke09:40
frinnstI have two nfs mounts with a total space of 9TB09:40
frinnsthave to try it :D09:40
tilman^ line number in configure09:40
frinnstchecking trying to find the freetype source directory -- be patient...09:40
tilmanyou can always use --with-freetype-src=/there/is/the/src/09:41
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: harfbuzz: updated footprint09:48
cruxbot[opt.git/2.8]: cifs-utils: add patch to fix mount when a cred file supplies a username09:49
jaegerthis resolution might be ridiculous.
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Rotwang1at last managet to get fluxbox running on 3.009:51
Rotwang1now I need to migrate my ci env to 3.0 :C09:53
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swormhi the support for crux2.8 is until when?10:03
tadzikuh. Either my CPU is getting old and tired, or the software is heavier than it used to be, or my laptop is simply to weak for CRUX :/10:12
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juesworm: that's not finally decided yet. But I'm pretty sure that there will be some kind of i686 support available, probably with a contributed overlay repository10:14
swormjue, and is there any way to make crux pure 64?10:16
juesure, rebuild the tool-chain10:17
tadzikRomster: skype seems to be broken: "error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"10:17
juesworm: but why do you want that?10:17
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tadzikprt-get: installing chromium 24.0.1312.52-111:07
tadzikI know the new meaning of "eternity"11:07
tilmancontrib/boost ignores CFLAGS, overrides them with -O3 :[11:12
tadzikanyway experiences from the first day since about 2.7 on CRUX: I forgot how annoying it is to compile everything on c2d. Also, skype and wicd are broken, which is basically making me go back to debian :/11:12
nogagplzafaik skype is 32bit only11:21
nogagplzso you might need to make sure a 32bit alsa-lib is installed11:21
tadzikoh crap, if it wants 32bit Qt too...11:30
tilmanjust download the statically linked binary?11:31
tadzikyeah, I'll package that I guess11:33
frinnstwicd is broken? i remember using that with crux a couple of years back11:34
tadzikyears, yeah11:34
tadzikI remember that too :)11:34
tadzikI'm now struggling to package the latest upstream version, maybe that'll behave11:35
frinnstjaeger: what kind of monitor do you have?11:36
frinnstI want that res. too :)11:36
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tadzikhuh, wicd magically started working now11:49
tadziknot sure if it's related to update. What a silly thing11:50
niklaswedoes someone know if I can use Nexus7 tablet as monitor to my raspberry pi?11:50
jaegerniklaswe: if you find a way I'd like to know, too11:53
jaegerfrinnst: wecube st2770w11:53
niklaswethat is more like screenshare..11:56
frinnstah, you got it? remember you were talking about getting one.12:02
frinnsthappy with it overall?12:02
jaegeryep :)12:02
jaegerlove it so far, yeah12:02
joe9anyone using runit?12:03
joe9with crux, I mean.12:03
nogagplzI think romster was at some stage12:04
joe9not sure if that is a simple setup or needs a lot of tweaking.12:04
lennartjue: is there some special reason why you have ports/opt/json-c still on version 0.9 instead of 0.10?12:12
joe9lennart: are you the author of systemd?12:16
lennartjoe9: nope, wrong lennart :)12:17
joe9lennart: maybe a good thing too, just read this at
tilmanlennart: pulse audio then?12:17
lennarttilman: yes indeed12:17
joe9nogagplz: looks like you are on the #hvlinux too.12:26
joe9nogagplz: did you try runit or hvlinux?12:26
nogagplzit was a fair while ago now12:26
joe9nogagplz: any experiences or thoughts that you do not mind sharing?12:36
joe9nogagplz: liked it or hated it?12:36
joe9better than crux's or not?12:36
nogagplzI didn't mind it, simple and pretty quick12:36
joe9why did you switch back?12:37
nogagplzRomster hasn't bumped his hvl stuff for a modern crux yet12:42
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elvis4526Is crux 3.0 x86_64 only?12:44
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jaegerelvis4526: it's multilib. natively x86-64 but can run and build 32-bit12:49
elvis4526jaeger: Okay, but if I have a there is no 32 bits version, right?12:49
jaegerThere is not currently. 2.8 still works, though12:50
elvis4526Okay. Is there plans for one?12:50
jaegerNothing official yet but I kinda expect someone will want it enough to contribute it like pure64 was12:50
tilmanelvis4526: are you asking for a pure 64 bit version (no multilib), or are you asking for a i686/32 bit version?12:51
linXeacurrent hardware my crux runs on does not handle 64bit.. guess I better replace the hardware soon.. about time anyways12:52
elvis4526tilman: I'm not asking about multilib. I'm asking about a 32bits version of crux. Not installing some 32 bits packages over a 64 bits install.12:53
elvis4526jaeger: Okay thanks.12:53
joe9nogagplz: i am more interested in runit.12:54
nogagplzcheck his pkgfiles for it then they're probably still up on his site12:55
tadzikwhat's runit?12:56
elvis4526And, what is the security policy of crux? How often a new releases is out? Is it a model like slackware where there is new release when it's ready and between this, only security bug-fix are provided?12:57
elvis4526The "not bleeding-edge, but stable software" is not really telling me anything.12:58
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jjasgharweechat...yay or nay?13:46
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joe9jaeger: quick question, you like simplicity. have you tried runit?13:53
tadzikwhat's this runit? :)13:57
jaegerI've never tried it, sysvinit is fine for me14:00
nogagplzcode for lets run tadzik out of town!14:03
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joe9 found this.14:10
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frinnstwhy would you want to run a silly-complex init on crux?14:59
frinnstthere are other distros for that, fedora for example14:59
joe9frinnst: why do you say "silly-complex"? it seems pretty cool.15:15
joe9frinnst: seems simpler, imho.15:16
joe9another interesting read:
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guzzan0Hi, somebody have problem with pidgin and msn protocol?18:11
frinnstony Bates, Microsoft President, Skype Division, explained that Windows Live Messenger would be retired for all users in the first quarter of 2013, with the only exception being mainland China.18:14
frinnstmaybe they pulled the plug?18:14
guzzan0but today start session and work perfect... uhm..18:19
jaegerI only use pidgin for XMPP, no idea here18:29
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joe9Romster: you around?19:44
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joe9Romster: if you get online while I am not around, I am checking out runit. I hear that you gave it a shot. wondering if you have a port for it and have any experiences to share.21:14
prologicjoe9, I'm wanting to try out runit myself too21:48
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Romsteri get home and i get greeted by this
Romsterjoe9, prologic you'll find runit and socklog in i wrote instructions on how to convert from crux to runit ages ago on you'll want to update it and there was one small issue with the init scripts.23:44
Romsterwhere if you go a mount issue where it can't find a drive it'll reboot the system. and i think i had a issue with shutting down too. can't quite recall.23:45
Romsterit worked fast and stable otherwise when i was using runit.23:45
Romsterof course it pays to rewite the run scripts than to use the ones in /etc/rc.d/ but you can still use /etc/rc.d/ for some stuff.23:46

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