IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2013-03-11

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jueRomster: the repo is here -> https://github.com/fjaell/i686, not updated since quite some time00:23
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slashbeastRomster: what was the issues with runit?00:45
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timcowchipwww.hvlinux.net = 40402:13
timcowchipno gkrellm02:13
timcowchipFirefox can't find the server at www.hvlinux.net.02:14
timcowchipcould be down temporarily02:14
frinnstiirc romster said they were migrating the datacenter. might be related to that02:15
timcowchipoh ok02:15
timcowchipthanks frinnst02:15
frinnstjust a guess02:16
timcowchipok02:16
timcowchiphaven't seen sepen for awhile02:16
timcowchipis he still the one to get a ports repo up on the db?02:17
frinnstthink so. email is probably your best bet02:17
frinnstharder to forget02:18
timcowchipok then thanks :)02:18
Romsteryes the hardware is being relocated was meant to be done on the 8th but got rescheduled.02:21
timcowchipok02:22
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jueplayed a bit with qemu, works very nice nowadays, and it's pretty fast together with kvm03:36
juedon't see a reason to use vbox anymore03:37
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slashbeastthe spilce is kind of broken, with windows guests after changing resolution qemu fails into a loop and consum 100% cpu03:45
slashbeastand the sdl and vnc with vga std still sucks hard03:45
frinnstjue: one reason is easy integration with the host03:46
frinnstI run vbox at work, qemu at home03:46
juefrinnst: IMO sshfs-fuse is a very easy way to share files with the host-system, works out of the box without any additional net setup03:47
frinnstyeah, if you run a unix guest03:48
frinnstnot if you have to use windows :)03:48
teK_vbox makes it just very easy to configure things (now hit me :p)03:48
juetss ;)03:48
teK_It took me some time to arrange with the qemu-consonle and the options to control this thing from the outside03:49
jueslashbeast: "-vga std" works nice for me03:49
teK_I mean.. virt-manager starts a VM like this:03:49
frinnstWhen i ran rhel at my workstation i used virtmanager/libvirt. it was vbox-ish. I one attempted to create a crux port for it. but i gave up after i had created 8 dependencies03:50
teK_lol frinnst same here :D03:50
teK_fscking gnome-deps03:50
frinnstyeah03:50
teK_qemu-system-x86_64 -S -M pc -cpu qemu32 -no-kvm -m 512 -smp 2 -name demo1 -uuid 696e128b-a632-6ec9-09f1-83c106cf6cc6 -monitor unix:/home/tek/src/libvirt-0.7.5/INS/var/lib/libvirt/qemu/demo1.monitor,server,nowait -no-reboot -boot d -drive file=/home/tek/vdisk.qcow2,if=ide,index=0 -drive file=/home/tek/Fedora-12-i686-Live.iso,if=ide,media=cdrom,index=2 -net none -serial pty -parallel none -usb -vnc 127.0.0.1:0 -k en-us -vga cirrus03:50
slashbeastjue: play a game under it ;p THe vbox have by far greater gfx support, splice is an answer but still buggy03:50
frinnsta library that is only used by one application is pointless03:50
teK_yes03:50
slashbeastalso vbox does weird shit in kernel space making it impossible to use ond grsecurity x86_64 hosts03:50
slashbeasts/ond/on03:51
jueslashbeast: I don't need it to play games :)03:51
slashbeastwhat I use is -vga std and vnc, and for windows guest also -usbdevice tablet to provide troubleless input support.03:51
slashbeastbut it does consume a bit of cpu03:51
slashbeastfwiw I runs qemu-kvm as my main virt solution for years.03:51
teK_VNC sucks huge times.. I need to check out spice.. I always admired how well RDP worked03:52
slashbeastvnc is acceptable when you need to pass thru the bootloader and as 'what was the kernel panic thing this time'.03:52
teK_yeah but anything involving a pointing device is just .. meh03:53
frinnstspeaking of games.. tomorrow bitches!03:53
frinnsthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft_II:_Heart_of_the_Swarm03:53
teK_WHAAAT03:53
teK_get your VM ready03:54
frinnstNo, i have a separate disk with windows 7 :)03:54
frinnstthe hostname is "wintendo"03:54
teK_heh03:54
slashbeastteK_: you always run such long qemu commands, with no scripts to it?03:57
slashbeastah, libvirt.03:57
teK_yes03:57
slashbeastyou do realize qcow2 is fucking slow, and raw is by far better?03:58
teK_last invocation looked like this: qemu-system-x86_64 -drive file=disk-huge.qcow203:58
teK_obviously not -----^03:58
teK_:D03:58
slashbeasttry unpack a somthing rather big like kernel sources inside vm on qcow203:58
slashbeastWait wha- @$!%!@$ x_x <qemu hit iowaits>03:58
slashbeastvirtio block device + raw image.03:59
slashbeastalmost native IO performance03:59
teK_http://mag.entropy.be/blog/2010/03/20/kvm-performance-qcow2-vs-raw-ide-vs-virtio/04:01
frinnstI use qcow2 on a ssd04:03
frinnstbut with btrfs :)04:03
frinnst= slow04:03
teK_not everybody is as rich as you are, frinnst04:03
frinnstHA04:03
teK_why? because of btrfs?04:03
frinnstyeah04:03
jueslashbeast: hmm, don't see that, "time tar -xf linux-3.7.tar.xz took" around 8 sec in qemu with qcow2 and 5.5 sec on the host04:03
teK_using RAW images strikes the option to create snapshots I think04:03
frinnsti could nocow the .qcow2 file, but that would be cheating04:04
teK_maybe slashbeast compared qcow and raw+virtio04:04
frinnstSaldo: 168,7604:04
frinnstyeah, im rich :D04:04
teK_so in which specific workload is it that btrfs is slow? I've been using it on my laptop with a crappy OCZ cache ssd and had only seldom  'overload' situation where the system would seem to wait on finishg i/o04:05
frinnstthere has been some major'ish fsync issues04:05
teK_c'mon march is almost over :>04:05
frinnstexample: saving an empty file with vim taking +10 seconds and stuff04:05
teK_ugh,  didn't see that one. luckily.04:06
jueoops04:06
frinnstthey havent really tweaked it much. with some workloads it can be quite horrible04:06
slashbeastjue: you sure its not within the dirty cache and acctualy does not write it to disk yet?04:07
slashbeastjue: depends on the ram on host and guest, run it multiple times04:07
teK_thank god we have ssds to cover these issues mostly :P04:07
jueno, was the first run04:07
frinnstalso, using compression generally speeds up stuff quite a lot. but not with the ssd i use, the sandforce ship does its own compression to limit wear and stuff04:08
teK_I don't know if my SSD knows how to spell 'compression'04:08
teK_I bet not04:08
slashbeastno, sandforce have no comression, it does only deduplication04:08
frinnstwhat controller does it use?04:08
slashbeastwhich sucks all along04:08
frinnstslashbeast: the controller on intel 330 does04:08
juesecond run with qemu was 7.5 sec04:08
teK_it's armed with a SandForce 2281 controller04:09
juewell, it's on a ssd here too04:09
teK_i believe04:09
frinnsti dont think it does any dedup04:10
teK_I don't care too much. It replaced a simple hdd so..04:10
frinnstyeah, I got mine for free so04:11
teK_me too :P04:11
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jueone thing I have to mention: writing to the console, without X, is extremly slow04:17
teK_in qemu?04:17
teK_really?04:17
jueyes04:17
jue'time prt-get -fr tmux' counts as 47.7 sec04:18
jue'time prt-get -fr tmux > /dev/null' is 7.7 sec ;)04:18
jueno typo !04:19
teK_typo!04:19
teK_ah04:19
teK_well :D04:19
teK_0.005 and 0.004 for me04:20
teK_seconds.04:20
teK_what's your commandline?04:20
jueselected tmux for this test because it is very verbose04:20
teK_I don't get that.04:21
juetime prt-get -fr tmux > /dev/null resp. time prt-get -fr tmux04:21
jue0.005 for what?04:21
teK_time prt-get -fr tmux04:22
teK_albeit I don't understand what this is supposed to benchmark04:23
teK_if this is n ot a typo you want prt-get to spit out an error about the unknown command tmux? I don't think I understand you're point :)04:23
jueI don't belief that you build tmux in 0.05 seconds :)04:23
teK_me neither but then it's a typo?04:24
jueyep, I forgot the update, sorry04:24
jueshould be 'time prt-get update -fr tmux'04:25
teK_still trying to download that darned tarball from sf04:25
juewith 'no typo' above I meant the two measurements04:26
teK_oh :P04:26
teK_next wtf04:28
teK_tmux produces < 50 lines on compilation.. which version did you build? :p04:29
teK_nevermind, I managed to pick my CRUX 2.6 VM04:29
teK_haha so much fuckup in one try *g*04:29
jue:)04:29
juefor comparison, took around 5.5 sec on the host-system, negligible difference between the two runs04:31
teK_tmux-1.7 still yields < 30 lines of output04:32
juelibevent installed?04:33
teK_2.0.2104:33
teK_on CRUX 2.6 :P04:33
juehmm, that's strange, wc -l reports 417 for me04:36
teK_wtf04:37
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teK_maybe I tweaked building on the VM04:37
teK_on my host it prints the usual configure / make stuff04:37
teK_in the VM it didn't. so I probably piped to  /dev/null04:38
teK_it's an old vm, so : next fuckup ;)04:38
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frinnsthm, anybody know of a strace-like program for windows?05:53
frinnstmaybe google knows05:53
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: lirc: Fixed build issues with recent systems06:40
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v33hello hello11:38
joacimhello11:40
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: nvidia: updated to version 310.4012:43
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cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.0]: nvidia-32: updated to version 310.4013:02
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cruxbot[core.git/3.0]: tzdata: updated to 2013b13:55
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himynameisphilTowelling window manager16:10
timcowchiptowelling sounds good16:10
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himynameisphilwindows are arranged in frames that are proportional to the size of various towels (beach towel, normal towel, hand towel)16:10
himynameisphilwindows are laid very softly on the towels so they don't break16:11
timcowchipI thought you meant like cleaning windows16:11
timcowchipwhat window manager does that?16:11
himynameisphilone i dreamed about when half-asleep16:12
timcowchipoh16:12
timcowchipI use wmfs216:12
himynameisphilherbstluftwm16:12
timcowchipon crux?16:13
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himynameisphilyes16:13
himynameisphilsomeday i will write towelwm16:13
himynameisphilha ha16:13
timcowchipis that your own port?16:14
himynameisphilyes16:14
timcowchipherbstluftwm?16:14
timcowchipwmfs2 is one I made from wmfs16:14
himynameisphilwmfs is a nice one16:14
timcowchiphttp://people.salixos.org/timcowchip/crux/16:14
timcowchipwmfs2 is a little better16:15
himynameisphilyeah i do prefer 216:15
timcowchipthe trick to getting the tag#'s to switch is compiling --without-xinerama16:16
timcowchipdo you use lilo or grub?16:18
himynameisphillilo16:18
himynameisphilkeep meaning to switch to syslinux16:18
timcowchipok I'm trying lilo now16:18
timcowchipmy other os is salix16:18
himynameisphilI liked Salix when I tried it16:19
timcowchipme too...easy16:19
himynameisphiljust installed debian on my netbook16:19
timcowchipwheezy?16:19
himynameisphilyes!16:19
himynameisphilrolling release and debian!16:19
timcowchiptesting16:20
himynameisphiltried installing freebsd before that16:20
timcowchipouch16:20
himynameisphilthat went well... :/16:20
timcowchippkgadd -r16:20
himynameisphilyeah, shoulda done that16:20
himynameisphilthought it would be cool to compile ports instead16:21
himynameisphilon a single-core, 32-bit, 1.6 GHz Atom16:21
himynameisphilurgh16:21
timcowchiphttp://arpinux.org/livarp/16:21
timcowchipits based on squeeze16:22
timcowchipwhen wheezy goes stable, they will release a 64 bit version based on wheezy16:22
himynameisphilcoo'. wish i'd known about that earlier16:23
timcowchipgotto reboot with lilo16:24
timcowchiptalk again soon, hopefully16:25
himynameisphilbonne chance!16:25
timcowchipmerci :)16:25
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himynameisphilI'm confused about how to actually set locale in crux17:06
himynameisphildid the localedef thing in the handbook17:06
himynameisphildo i just add exports to /etc/profile for things like LANG?17:06
prologicI believe so17:17
prologicexport LC_ALL="C"17:18
himynameisphilthanks17:19
nthwyattI use export LANG="en_CA.utf8" in ~/.bash_profile17:24
nthwyattthat forces all the LC_* to the one I built when I installed crux17:24
nthwyattJust use locale to see what is set17:25
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nthwyatthad bad experiences with collating order in cron jobs using utf8 system-wide so I only do it on my login17:26
joe9I want to change my theme to tango. But, am not able to figure out how to do so. I read that load-theme is the latest way to do so.http://batsov.com/articles/2012/02/19/color-theming-in-emacs-reloaded/17:55
joe9sorry, wrong channel.17:56
himynameisphilHmmm18:00
himynameisphilthe problem I'm having is that I get gobbledy-gook characters in ncurses applications when I ssh into my server18:01
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himynameisphilthe garbage chars don't show up when I log into the server directly18:02
himynameisphiland they don't show up in local ncurses apps18:02
himynameisphilso I dont know where the trouble is18:02
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nthwyattare you ssh from a terminal emulator under X or from a virtual console?18:19
nthwyattif using a terminal emulator under X the box must have the fonts available that the ncurses appliction is trying to use18:20
himynameisphili have the prob with x terminals, both xterm and sakura18:28
himynameisphili'll try changing the font18:28
nthwyattcheck the Font Path that xset q shows, it might show why the same font isn't on both boxes18:32
himynameisphilthe server doesnt have x installed at all18:37
himynameisphili should also mention i don't get the characters when I ssh into the server from my debian netbook18:38
himynameisphilso i think it's a prob on the crux end18:38
nthwyattthe server you run the ncurses app on is  crux without X installed?18:41
nthwyattthat would be the locale problem from earlier18:41
nthwyattmake sure locale returns the same answer on the server as well as your debian netbook18:42
himynameisphilno the server is arch with no x. crux is on my laptop.18:43
nthwyattgobbledy-gook usually happens to me when the app is using UTF-8 but the terminal I'm trying to run it18:44
nthwyatton doesn't have UTF8 locale18:44
himynameisphilmaybe I'll try another term18:44
nthwyattfor me urxvt works best for UTF818:45
himynameisphili'm just puzzled why the term runs the same ncurses apps local with no garbage chars18:46
himynameisphiloh wait...18:47
himynameisphilnope18:48
himynameisphiltried it in rxvt-unicode. same issue18:49
nthwyattwhen you say local you mean you're logging into a virtual console on the arch server itself?18:49
himynameisphilsorry, i'm not being clear18:50
himynameisphilwhen i run ncurses apps on my crux laptop, i dont get garbage chars in them18:50
himynameisphilit's only when the crux laptop is ssh'd into the arch server that i get garbage in ncurses apps18:51
himynameisphilLANG=en.ca_UTF-8 on both my crux laptop and the arch server18:52
nthwyatthrm. Mine is LANG=en_CA.utf818:53
nthwyattdid you gen them with localeldef using en.ca_UTF-8?18:54
nthwyatton crux I mean18:54
himynameisphili think i may see the prob here...18:55
nthwyattDon't know if it matters, i just translated the commands in the handbook literally from se to ca18:55
nthwyatttime to feed the animals and hit the bed, good luck...18:59
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timcowchipwhat is wrong with this lilo.conf? http://pastebin.com/cDPjVs9i21:45
timcowchipI can only boot into the sda1 partition21:46
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timcowchipok then21:54
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rauzmgn23:25
frinnstmm23:54

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