IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2013-03-21

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timcowchipbuilt a gtk3 patched handbrake-svn with automake-1.11.600:20
timcowchipln -sf wodim cdrecord to use cdrkit in simpleburn00:22
timcowchipshould I add that to the Pkgfile?00:22
frinnsttry to prevent modification of external stuff like that00:35
frinnstoptimal would be to patch/fix simpleburn00:35
frinnstyou could also create a readme in the port that mentions the symlink stuff if you are unable to fix it any other way00:38
timcowchipis cdrkit part of a base install?00:39
timcowchipbecause cdrtools uses cdrecord instead of wodim00:40
timcowchipwhen installing cdrkit it mentions to remove cdrtools00:41
timcowchipit also mentions Since this port doesn't (at least currently) provide any compatibility00:43
timcowchipsymlinks, you need to export MKISOFS=genisoimage to use dvd+rw-tools.00:43
timcowchipI don't remember doing that00:43
timcowchipdoesn't mean I didn't00:44
timcowchipjust don't remember00:44
timcowchipI'll reference the cdrkit README in a simpleburn README00:46
frinnsttimcowchip: no, its in opt00:49
frinnstand will need to be included in the depends on line00:49
timcowchipI think it is in the depends line00:50
frinnstit uses $CDRECORD for all commands via bash-scripts00:51
frinnstwhere is this defined? should be easily changed to wodim instead of cdrecord00:51
timcowchipyes there are a number of binaries I can patch00:52
timcowchipscripts not binaries00:52
timcowchipthat simpleburn installs00:52
timcowchipin /usr/bin00:52
timcowchipis the one withe $CDRECORD00:53
frinnstbest way would probably be to define $CDRECORD as woodim00:57
frinnstsomewhere.. :)00:57
timcowchipcan more than one version of automake coexist?00:58
timcowchipI seem to remember having more than one on debian00:59
frinnstother distros have made it work iirc00:59
frinnstbut they are reverting the change that broke automake in next version00:59
frinnstbtw, I was the one that pushed the fucked version. you should blame me for all the troubles :)01:00
timcowchipjaeger pointed this out earlier01:01
frinnstNo need to, the AM_CONFIG_HEADER will be re-introduced in 1.13.2 (it will01:02
frinnstraise a warning, but no fatal error).  Not sure when I'll have proper time01:02
frinnstto tie the loose ends still present in the repo, and roll a new beta for01:02
frinnst1.13.2, though, so just be patient.01:02
timcowchipcalling it a night, thanks frinnst:)01:07
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horrorStruckback to sysvinit \o/06:09
frinnstheh, how was it?06:09
horrorStrucksome good, too much bad. i feel at home again.06:10
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Lukc_To sysvinit? From what? :o06:46
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: libgsasl: renamed from gsasl, updated version06:55
horrorStruckLukc_: been trying systemd for a week or so07:10
hiro_heh, that's the reason i switched to crux07:14
hiro_horrorStruck: you have some courage i must say hehe07:15
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horrorStruckhiro_: just curious to see what it's about07:17
hiro_I thought it's about changing conventions randomly to confuse users07:18
hiro_horrorStruck: what did you find out?07:19
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frinnstRomster: new isp?07:20
horrorStruckhiro_: unpredictable and obscure for the bad, fast and some nice fine-grain control for the good07:21
horrorStruckand it needs a lot of crap too, i was suffering every time i had to add something to my kernel config07:24
hiro_good that i don't need fast07:25
hiro_why I would want more fine-grained control I don't know07:26
horrorStruckthe way it handles daemons is quite nice but given the few i have running it's rather pointless07:29
horrorStruckbut it would never shutdown the same way, i had some unclean unmounts sometimes only and some cryptic error about some cgroup crap07:30
horrorStrucki mentioned it on their irc channel, then tried git master a bit later, errors wouldnt show up in logs anymore but i could still see them at shutdown :D07:31
horrorStrucknot sure if related but funny if it is07:31
horrorStruckhiro_: from which distro are you coming from?07:38
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hiro_horrorStruck: i still have lots of other computers running on such shit07:43
hiro_horrorStruck: like ubuntu07:43
hiro_although the problems with ubuntu are much deeper than just systemd haha07:44
hiro_but i'm also using tinycorelinux07:44
hiro_which doesn't use systemd or such crap either07:44
Lukc_hiro_, Ubuntu switched to systemd?07:44
hiro_Lukc_: actually i have no idea what they use07:45
Lukc_I thought I would stay on UpStart a bit longer. :o07:45
Lukc_Ah. :D07:45
hiro_upstart I saw there07:45
hiro_upstart confused me07:45
horrorStruckyeah uptart07:45
hiro_"you're not supposed to use init.d/blabla start/stop07:45
horrorStruckbut they plan to use logind IIRC07:45
horrorStruckbecause of ck deprecation07:46
hiro_well, if they want to reinvent the wheel twice per day they shall go on07:46
hiro_i won't adapt heh07:46
Lukc_That is so wtf.07:46
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horrorStruckour udev version doesnt build with glibc 2.17 anymore... we're doomed :P07:47
hiro_the tinycore people have the same problem07:47
hiro_they're also still waiting i guess07:47
hiro_for some solution to this07:47
Lukc_horrorStruck, of course not. We could drop udev support. :D07:48
horrorStruckthat's an option indeed07:48
Lukc_Or glibc support.07:48
Lukc_Or both.07:48
hiro_switch to plan9!07:48
horrorStruckexport LDFLAGS="$LDFLAGS -lrt" <--- udev 182 builds again with glibc 2.17 :)08:02
Lukc`Oh shit. -,,-08:04
Lukc`I was hoping for some real progress here.08:04
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cruxbot[xorg.git/3.0]: xorg-xf86-video-intel: updated to 2.21.508:43
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AmnesiaI still need to find out how charsets/locales work ..12:28
frinnstits magic12:30
frinnstwhats wrong?12:30
Amnesiafor some reason my prompt contains an upside down question mark on my vps-.-12:30
frinnstwhat does it run?12:31
frinnstdoes the output from locale look sane?12:34
Amnesiahow'd you mean?12:35
frinnstwell, mostly the same locale everywhere?12:36
frinnstdebian is usually pretty good with that12:37
AmnesiaLANG is set to en_US.UTF-812:37
darkrabbitWhy are debian init scripts so huge?12:37
Amnesiayeah dunno exactly what my mate did :P12:37
Amnesiadarkrabbit: debian's not too bad12:45
darkrabbitI don't hate debian. Just it's init scripts :)12:45
Amnesiaimo it's depenency handling sucks too..12:46
darkrabbitIt basically forced me to write my own start-stop-daemon12:46
darkrabbitI've made it to resemble openrc's rc though12:46
darkrabbitBecause that thing is beautiful12:47
Amnesiaor just run crux:P12:47
darkrabbitI don't think that crux on a server is a good idea12:48
Amnesiawhy not?12:48
darkrabbitOr gentoo. Or Arch (which is my primary desktop OS right now)12:48
darkrabbitWell, first of all source-based distros require some additional infrastructure to update safely.12:49
darkrabbitAnd Arch is just too bleeding edge.12:49
Amnesiaimo it's a good thing to keep update12:49
Amnesiaand yes, it does require some more management...12:50
darkrabbitsome? :D12:50
Amnesiayeah some:p12:50
Amnesiait's not too bad12:50
darkrabbitIt requires a whole build system12:51
darkrabbitAnd a testing procedure12:51
Amnesiabuild system?12:51
darkrabbitOh, would you build packages on a production server?12:51
darkrabbitAre you insane?12:51
darkrabbitWe use FreeBSD in production at work.12:52
darkrabbitMost of our servers are FreeBSD. It requires MUCH more management that binary linux distros.12:53
darkrabbitAnd CRUX isn't much different in that regard.12:53
darkrabbitIt may not be as bad on one server. On a park? NOPE.avi12:54
AmnesiaI rather like freebsd as a serverplatform12:54
darkrabbitbtw, CRUX has the most basic init infrastructure. It's agruably worse than debian in that regard.12:55
darkrabbitI know it's intentional12:55
darkrabbitCRUX is a nice platform to build a system on12:56
darkrabbitBut I don't really want to build and support my own distro essentially12:56
darkrabbitSo yeah, debian :)12:56
Amnesiadunno why you'd like to make it more complex12:56
Amnesianever missed out any feature12:56
darkrabbitWell, the other day I needed an init script for a custom service. Moinmoin.12:57
darkrabbitThat took me about three minutes with my rc (watchman)12:57
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darkrabbitWould have taken ay least half an hour with debian init scripts. Same goes for CRUX12:58
Amnesiaguess I'll write some wrapper that backgrounds the process:)12:59
Amnesiaquick 'n dirty though12:59
darkrabbitI think this speaks for itself12:59
darkrabbitOr this:12:59
darkrabbit# wc -l nginx .nginx.orig12:59
darkrabbit  18 nginx12:59
darkrabbit 101 .nginx.orig12:59
darkrabbitthe .orig one is from debian12:59
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Amnesiadarkrabbit: looks ok:)13:02
darkrabbitThe one on pastebin isn't just the head of the file btw13:03
darkrabbitIt's the whole service file.13:03
Amnesiawhat's it written in?13:04
darkrabbitI hesitate calling them scripts at this point. Though they are actual bash scripts. You can override any functions and write any logic13:04
AmnesiaI see13:04
darkrabbitI want to release it, but can't find the time to polish it a bit13:06
Amnesiatime's always an issue13:06
darkrabbitI ded release a wine helper script recently though13:07
darkrabbitThat felt food.13:07
darkrabbitNice typo there, DaViruz13:07
darkrabbitWhat the fuck is wrong with me.13:07
Amnesiait's quite a shame coding is as time consuming as it is:/13:08
darkrabbitWell, it depends on the type of coding that you do13:08
darkrabbitI usually get my average script working (as in doing the basic stuff) in an hour or less13:09
Amnesiawell, I refuse to write crappy code:P..13:09
darkrabbitPolishing stuff is takes much more time than actually making it work13:09
Amnesia"the basic stuff" is kinda broad13:09
darkrabbitThe basic stuff is the original feature set that was in my head when I started13:09
darkrabbitIt always grows over time.13:10
darkrabbitLike this bloody thing:
darkrabbitIt was 63 lines originally13:10
darkrabbit234 now.13:11
Amnesiaever heard of docopt?13:11
Amnesiait's brilliant13:12
darkrabbit166 lines of code without comments, heh13:12
Amnesiahaven't had time to finish it-.-13:13
darkrabbitDocopt looks interesting13:15
Amnesiait is13:15
darkrabbitThough my command-line interfaces are pretty neat I guess13:18
darkrabbitWell, actually no.13:18
darkrabbitBut I try to mantain a neat help message13:19
Amnesiadepens who I'm writing stuff for13:19
darkrabbitI would mantain manpages, but my scripts aren't making their way into OS packages any time soon13:19
darkrabbitMy scripts are VERY niche13:20
darkrabbitLike, who needs a wine helper script to mantain multiple wine prefixes?13:20
Amnesiawho needs wine:)?13:20
darkrabbitGamers for one13:20
darkrabbitI'm a gamer :)13:20
AmnesiaI'd go for dualbooting then13:21
darkrabbitI'm too lazy for dualboot13:21
frinnstyeah crux is nice on home-servers and desktops13:21
frinnsti never use it for our servers at work :)13:22
darkrabbitI need to implement docopt for bash13:22
darkrabbitThat is NEAT13:22
Amnesiadarkrabbit: might already exist13:23
Amnesiabtw, bash is nasty imo..13:23
darkrabbitbash is weird and a bastard of perl and sh, yes13:24
darkrabbitAnd it's the only language I've ever needed for some reason13:24
darkrabbitAnd it's much easier to read for other people13:25
Amnesiabash !?13:25
darkrabbitEveryone knows bash to some degree13:25
Amnesiasometimes it's almost like perl:P13:25
darkrabbitIf you know a shell language, you know bash13:26
darkrabbitWell, not.13:26
darkrabbitBut you can read bash13:26
AmnesiaI guess ruby spoiled me^^13:26
darkrabbitI really need to get into ruby though13:27
Amnesiaspoiled *13:27
darkrabbitPuppet and Chef :)13:27
Amnesiatime to wake up-.-13:27
Amnesiatilman: you also had some ruby projects right?13:27
darkrabbitI won't be able to reimplement something like puppet or chef in bash13:27
darkrabbitWellm I may be able to, but that will take a lot of time13:28
darkrabbitAnd people are ALREADY using those two13:28
tilmandarkrabbit: my personal experience over _years_ is that python's ecosystem is far superior to ruby's13:28
tilmandarkrabbit: ruby is full of webtards (due to rails' success :x)13:29
darkrabbittilman, which doesn't help me with puppet and chef AT ALL13:29
Amnesiapython's ok, but whitespace indention's just growse..13:30
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entepython is gross in general :-P13:30
entesorry, __python__ is __gross__ in __general__13:31
Amnesiaente: are you still actively coding in tcl?13:31
enteTcl is still as awesome as it was 20 years ago13:31
darkrabbitente, the problem is most languages are gross in some ways13:32
entedarkrabbit: the problem is that python claims to be sane13:32
Amnesiaugh, my tcl experience SUCKED13:32
darkrabbitI don't like how ruby _looks_ for example13:32
enteand python users always claim that python is sane13:32
entewhich makes dealing with python people a pain in the ass13:32
ente"my language is better than yours" uh hu13:32
darkrabbitWell, python, in my limited experience, is at least clean.13:32
entesyntactically, yes13:32
darkrabbitThat's the most I can say about it13:32
entesemantically, not so much13:33
enteand it's the semantics that matter mostly13:33
darkrabbitI'd prefer C to python. Yes, seriously.13:33
enteso you want a C with python syntax? :P13:33
darkrabbitYeah, pretty mucj13:33
enteif not strcmp(__name__, "__main__"):13:34
darkrabbitThe problem is python is trying to be just that.13:34
ente   memcpy(...)13:34
ente^ REALLY?13:34
darkrabbitAnd fails miserably13:34
darkrabbitAnyway, I only know BASH enough to get into the details :D13:35
AmnesiaHm, I need some decent solution to read pdfs13:37
Amnesiaboth a kindle and laptop suck..13:37
Amnesiaany ideas:)?13:41
darkrabbitWhat's complex about Android? It's a fucking JVM on a linux kernel13:44
goodbox_Hahaha , yes fuckin JVM13:48
darkrabbitIt would be interesting to build a minimal linux distro with the UI from Ubuntu Phone13:48
darkrabbitBased on, say, CRUX13:49
darkrabbitI might get a vacation just for that13:49
enteapropos JVM13:56
teK_I was disallowed to use CRUX for a security-centric MITM appliance :\14:01
teK_"no no you're that CRUX dude, I won't allow you to use something else but ubuntu"14:01
enteif they want a maintenance hell so badly..14:02
teK_th eopposite was their argument ;)14:03
darkrabbitente, I laughed so hard my mouse fell off the table .-.14:03
enteteK_: of course :)14:05
darkrabbitWell, to mantain CRUX, you basically need a minimal distro infrastructure. Building and testing packages, deployment.14:07
darkrabbitI see how it's easier with Ubuntu.14:07
darkrabbitThough if you can actually mantain such an infrastructure...14:07
teK_an update from 2012 (!) caused our WSUS Server to not display any clients / client groups any more14:10
teK_the update was installed today :)14:10
darkrabbitInteresting. If I set up a build server and migrate CRUX to openrc, it might be a cool desktop OS/14:11
darkrabbitThen again, getting stuck with a bad port when you need something to work NOW...14:11
teK_so why is starting your daemons and configuring system settings such a big deal nowadays?14:12
teK_just stick with crux' sysvinit/rc !14:12
teK_I was told systemd rocks and is fast because of it's on-demand-socket-spawning thingy14:13
darkrabbitsystemd is too non-KISS for my taste14:13
darkrabbitopenrc gives you neat init scripts, but allows infinite flexibility. Because they are still scripts.14:14
darkrabbitOr I could add deps to watchman and use that...14:15
darkrabbitHow hard could it be to implement simple dependencies into my rc...14:28
darkrabbit$ watchman firefox start14:39
darkrabbit[watchman] firefox started (29129)14:39
darkrabbitWhy did I do that14:39
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darkrabbitI've just created a service that starts mplayer and points it to my mpd stream14:42
darkrabbit$ watchman music start14:42
darkrabbit[watchman] music started (30193)14:42
darkrabbitWhy did I not think of that before14:43
timcowchipchanged the deps for simpleburn from udev and cdrkit to libcdio, libisofs, libburn, and libisoburn15:02
timcowchipadded ports for libburn and libisoburn15:03
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darkrabbitSystemd gave me an idea for user services. So I wrote my own rc and implemented that D:15:27
darkrabbitSomething is wrong with my head, I think15:27
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enteyeah, tell me about it15:41
enteI can distinguish MTAs by queue-ID15:41
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darkrabbitThat is awesome15:53
enteso you've implemented rcorder? :)15:54
darkrabbitYeah, something like that, I guess15:55
darkrabbitI've modelled watchman after openrc15:56
darkrabbitAfter it's feature set and overall feel15:56
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darkrabbitThough my goal was to make creating services as easy as possible without making the tool itself complicated15:57
darkrabbitThe result is that a service file can be entirely empty, if you don't intend to make it an executable15:58
darkrabbitAnd if you do, the only mandratory line is the shebang15:58
darkrabbit$ cat .watchman/init.d/firefox15:59
darkrabbit#!/usr/local/bin/watchman -u15:59
enteor you could just symlink to executables16:09
enteif it's a symlink, you could start the program behind the symlink16:09
entethis actually looks a bit like BSD's init16:10
entefor instance this is /etc/rc.d/inetd on a FreeBSD 9.1 system16:10
enteBSD has relatively little boilerplate compared to SysV init systems16:11
enteso systemd's statement that you need unit files and such to make a clean init description file was definitely a lie16:11
enteit's just SysV-init that sucks and needs copying of boilerplate :)16:11
darkrabbitente, symlinks, huh16:15
entecd ~/.watchman; ln -s /usr/bin/firefox16:16
darkrabbitI don't like it because then we will have files in init.d that aren't actually services16:16
entetechnically, it is a service with zero dependencies16:16
darkrabbitWell, services do also redirect the std* to a log16:16
darkrabbitAnd track the pid16:17
darkrabbitIf I write logic that does that if the service file is a symlink, I will lose the ability to execute the service files directly16:17
darkrabbitAlso, watchman searches for the executable in $PATH16:18
entewell, yes, nevermind16:18
darkrabbitSo it will find it even if it was moved16:18
enteI'm going to bed16:18
entetoo tired for tech discussion16:18
darkrabbitnight :)16:19
darkrabbitThough it wouldn't hurt to write that logic in.16:21
darkrabbitIt would just be another way to use the script16:21
timcowchipI may have inadvertently pushed a HandBrake#svn-1.pkg.tar.gz with my other ports16:51
timcowchipI have a handbrake port finished that builds with gtk2 instead of gtk316:53
timcowchipit builds with automake 1.11.6 and should also then build with the next release of automake16:54
darkrabbit this is terrible.17:22
darkrabbitBut it's out17:22
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Romsterdarkrabbit> Like, who needs a wine helper script to mantain multiple wine prefixes? <- got the url to that? i have a use for it. got 19 wine prefixes currently.18:18
darkrabbitScotch from here:
darkrabbitI need to put scotch and vintner in a wine-specific repo18:20
Romstershrungs we go compat-32 and opt for wine stuffs.18:21
Romsterback to work later18:23
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darkrabbitRomster, the wine stuff moved:
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shirokurohi there crux guys, i've troubleshooted quite a few problems but this very basic one i can't figure... glibc/japanese locale doesn't work.. LC_ALL="ja_JP" or LANG="ja_JP" lfajlj should be jabbering at me in japanese about no such file or directory but it doesn't seem to change language.. even after rebuilding glibc localedef can't create iso88591 japanese correctly, i have to force with -c .. anybody have any ideas?23:23
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niklaswegood morning23:47
niklaswehow are you shirokuro ?23:51

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