IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2013-04-03

v33aside from gentoo, are there any other source build distros?00:01
nogagplzcall in sick00:01
nogagplzsay you got your beard caught in the drain in the bath tub again00:01
nogagplzisn't sourcemage source based00:01
Romsterfuntoo a derivative of gentoo00:02
Romsterbut why use anything else but crux?00:03
v33i would use crux, but god damn bumblebee is being a pain in the ass00:03
v33i was trying to see if i could change the gentoo ebuild and have it work with crux00:03
nogagplzthe bee stung your bottom and now your bottom's big00:03
Romsterread the backlog someone else was messing with it too00:03
nogagplzwouldn't the arch pkgbuilds be easier to read than that gentoo spaghetti00:04
Romster i thought bumblebee was in ther too..00:05
v33nogagplz yes, but, romster got the arch one, but it refused to work00:05
Romsteri gave up due to lack of interest and being a pain.00:05
v33i dont blame you...its why i wanna try the gentoo one00:05
Romsterpatch floating around apparently.00:06
nogagplzwouldbe hard without the hardware in front of you00:06
v33im really starting to not like gentoo00:06
v33sweet jesus00:10
v33if he patched it, and got primus to work, im going to be on crux00:10
*** ody has joined #crux00:22
*** ody has quit IRC00:23
Romsterdunno try it00:23
*** ody has joined #crux00:23
Romsternouveau driver though not bumblebee00:23
*** v33 has quit IRC00:27
prologicWhy use anything but CRUX?01:03
prologicCRUX IHMO is the BEST Source-based Distribution of Linux ever created.01:03
prologicIt has just the right mix of simplicity and ease of use.01:03
Romsterand ability to mold it to many purposes.01:31
prologicSeems like LXC hss come a long way01:31
prologicLXC 0.7.4 seems really good01:32
prologicI might give this a try on a new desktop with CRUX 3.0 at some point soon01:32
Romster firefox uploaded 20.001:33
Romsterqt4#4.8.4-4 uploading too anyone with any requests let me know.01:34
nogagplzRomster build all of gnome01:38
prologiclxc - linux containers02:29
prologicbasically the equivilent of openvz for the vanilla kernel02:29
prologicI must try it out02:29
prologicbecause it'll be a lot less of a pain to use standard CRUX and LXC(s)02:29
niklaswewhat are you guys using for graphing program?? munin,cacti... what else?03:24
hiro_niklaswe: awk :P03:37
hiro_niklaswe: but honestly i'd like to have simple graphic programs on lunix, gnuplot is a beast03:38
frinnstawesome. our sip-provider is down03:50
prologicHere's an interesting idea04:02
prologicIn an OpenVZ container04:02
prologicWhat would the minimum set of packages would you need for a working mare minimum system?04:02
frinnstlinux kernel and a static bash? :)04:09
prologicmaybe a little more functional than that :)04:12
prologicI'm thinking of stripping out all the development stuff04:13
hiro_prologic: trying to make a binary distribution or what?04:14
prologicjust less work per container04:15
prologici.e: I'll have a full crux build container04:15
prologicand just pkg-get stuff out to other containers04:15
prologicand strip them of all their build tools04:15
prologicif Arch can contribute minimal openvz templates to openvz.org04:15
prologicwhy can't we :)04:15
prologicin fact I should submit the standard crux ones we have of 2.6, 2.7 and 2.8 as they are now04:16
*** nullmark has joined #crux04:24
*** dkoby has joined #crux04:30
prologicWhat else can I remove?04:49
prologicEven arch's minimal vz template has gcc04:50
teK_man pages, groff, ed , httpup, bin86, m4, flex, bison, automake, autoconf, libtool, groff, gcc04:54
prologickinda seems sucky that the arch template has most build tools04:56
prologicand we're at 108M whilst Arch is at 94M04:56
prologic*sigh* :)04:56
teK_what do I need gcc for in a binary distro?04:57
teK_programming.. yeah. But that's not a use case for 100% of users04:57
prologicbash-4.2# prt-get remove httpup bin86 m4 flex bison automake autoconf libtool groff04:58
prologicprt-get: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object f04:58
prologicremoving gcc wasn't such a good iea!04:58
teK_well then strip the binaries if that helps space usage04:58
teK_what about /usr/include?04:59
prologicok I went a bit overboard now05:02
prologicanything else?05:02
prologicyes you're right /usr/include can be nuked itself05:03
prologicregardless of what packages are still there or not05:03
frinnstyeah gcc has a few shared libs that you need ;)05:08
frinnstits always something..05:09
teK_I mean not that some *weeks* of time would have been a rather huge window of opportunity to go there and unlock the thing locally :}05:11
frinnstfuck you! :)05:11
frinnstits an old decomissioned server at a customer location. thought i had everything i needed from it05:12
prologicbetter? :)05:12
prologicanything else?05:13
frinnstis that the stuff you are keeping?05:13
prologicrm -rf /usr/man*05:13
teK_what did you remove, prologic05:13
prologicjust about everything :)05:13
prologicexcept that you see there05:13
teK_no from the last paste05:13
prologicoh sorry I lost track05:14
prologicthat's just what's left now05:14
frinnsttcp_wrappers, which. mlocate, libdevmapper?, file, dcron05:14
teK_libdevmapper? What about lvm..05:14
teK_ok for containers? hm..05:14
frinnstyou might need to rebuild stuff if you remove tcpwrappers and libdevmapper05:14
teK_prologic: it would be nice if you could test the setup and put the list in our wiki :)05:15
frinnsttar too, probably05:15
prologicI just discovered two things I should not have removed :)05:17
prologiclibcap and ncurses05:17
teK_how? running revdep?05:17
frinnsthmm, i love when a callcenter calls and the first words out of their mouths are "i am not calling to sell you something"05:17
prologicbash won't work anymore :)05:17
teK_maybe they wrere not onto selling you something05:18
frinnstreplace bash with dash05:18
prologicgood idea05:18
frinnstthen why the fuck are they calling?05:18
teK_ask them!05:18
frinnstno, i hung up05:18
prologicin those exact words :)05:18
teK_friendly, as usual.05:18
teK_I would not replace bash by dash05:19
teK_although I maintain it *g*05:19
teK_ALTHOUGH I said so keep your mouth shut frinnst :p05:19
frinnstyeah you'll need to change a couple of shebangs probably05:19
frinnstor symlink dash->bash05:19
teK_the point is.. contrib is no official and the target was to build a minimum CRUX installation so I would not go as far as changing that bit05:20
prologicthis will be easier if I script it up05:20
prologicand test incrementally05:20
prologicI'm going to bed :)05:20
prologicI'll start again another day05:20
teK_good night05:20
prologicmy goal is to strip it right back to the bare essentials05:21
frinnstbusybox ?05:21
prologicso containers like dns server is quite small05:21
prologicnah not that small :)05:21
teK_yeah that's my point you could switch to dropbear instead of openssh, too05:21
teK_keep it cruxy :>05:21
prologicyeah I kinda want to05:22
prologicI like crux tbh05:22
prologicI don't want to go too crazy05:22
prologicbut I will remove everything you'd never use for very specific containers05:22
prologiclike who needs tar, which, bz2, gzip2, time, bindutils, etc, etc, etc05:23
prologicwhen all a container is doing is running bind05:23
prologicor maybe a container might be running lighgtpd + a few python web apps05:23
prologicI know it's petty, but it saves on precision disk space - when you're server only comes with 1 hdd a 250G one05:24
teK_you always can reinstall these anyway :)05:24
prologicwhich is why I intend to have a "build" container as such05:26
prologicpossibly always offline until needed05:26
prologicor really just a chroot for that version of crux the container is using05:26
prologicthat's how I maintain the containers now05:26
frinnst <- i wonder just how serious it will be05:26
teK_sounds nice although builds could come frome the host system05:26
teK_me too (maintaining postgresql)05:26
prologic*nods* yeah absolutely05:27
prologicthe host system has the chroots for the containers that I update/create/modify and package up05:27
prologicit does the building05:27
prologicI need to write either a bash or python tool that helps with doing this stuff05:27
teK_pkgadd -r ... ?05:28
prologicno I mean I have nice scripts/tools like05:31
prologicthat do the right thing for a proxmox ve host05:31
prologicanyway g'night05:32
prologicI'll post my results later on in the week05:32
prologicgot the template down to 33M05:52
prologicjust ironing out a few bugs05:52
frinnstwee, got access to the fucking server \o/06:04
prologicerr how do you create the /dev/pty device in crux again?06:06
prologicwe don't have an /sbin/MAKEDEV ?06:06
hiro_prologic: look at tinycore, they are just 10megs or so06:06
hiro_you can strip *a lot*06:06
hiro_but what I hate most about tc is that they even stripped away the man pages :(06:07
prologicyeah I don't want to have to rebuild everything from scratch though06:07
frinnstyay firefox 20 broke the "mitm me" extension06:11
prologicany ideas why udev isn't create /dev/pty ?06:24
hiro_16:05 < prologic> yeah I don't want to have to rebuild everything from scratch though06:47
hiro_they have packages actually, binary packages06:47
prologicwho has?06:47
prologicI'm not talking about tc06:47
prologicman something I removed is causing problems with /dev/pty06:48
prologicany ideas?06:48
prologicUnable to open pty: No such file or directory06:48
hiro_is udev running at all?06:49
prologicpossibly not06:50
prologicbecause it seems I removed libdevmapper06:50
prologicprobably needs that06:50
prologicoot@vz1:~/cxroot# vzctl enter 10106:51
prologicenter into CT 101 failed06:51
prologicUnable to open pty: No such file or directory06:51
prologicprobably not a good idea to remove that either :)06:51
hiro_prologic: if you don't want to rebuild everything from scratch i can tell you forget it06:52
prologicforget what?06:52
hiro_all the shit probably gets linked against everything but the kitchen sink by default06:52
hiro_forget *huge* space savings06:52
prologicnah I don't agree06:53
prologicI've almost got it down to it's bare minimum06:53
hiro_hmm, how much is crux' default install?06:53
prologicI think we (the CRUX devs) do a good job of keeping it small and simple06:53
prologicI can tell you in a sec06:53
frinnstthe iso is ~260mb or something06:54
frinnstperhaps a bit more06:54
frinnstit no longer fits on my 256mb usb-stick :(06:54
hiro_but not everything from the iso gets installed by default, right?06:54
hiro_i remember it was *quite* small when I installed crux last time06:54
frinnstthe packages are what takes the most space06:55
hiro_so my feeling is it would be very hard to cut it down even more06:55
frinnstbut that includes selected stuff from opt and the entire xorg repo06:55
hiro_well, if you do the most minimal install possible06:55
prologicon the real file system06:55
hiro_how much disk space will it use06:55
prologic108M vs. 378M06:55
frinnstdunno :)06:55
hiro_sadly I can't check any more, i've installed like -- chrome or something haha06:56
prologicwell I just succeeded06:56
prologicit's a 35M tarball06:56
prologicand 108M live06:56
hiro_hmm, including source code?06:56
hiro_or did you strip that?06:56
prologicgod no06:56
prologicno sources, headers06:57
hiro_i'm surprised you get a 3x compression06:57
frinnstand no kernel stuff, right?06:57
prologiccontainer only06:57
prologicdon't care about any of that06:57
prologicI want to be able to spin containers up quickly06:57
frinnstxz is efficient ;)06:57
prologicand for them to take up very little space06:57
hiro_would have never imagined mostly binary files would be compressable like that06:57
prologicyeah proxmox/openvz doesn't quite work like that though :)06:57
prologiceach container has a root file system in /var/lib/vz/private/{CTID}06:58
prologicI can have 3x as many vms in terms of storage now06:58
frinnst*afk*, playing06:58
prologichiro_, has nothing to do with compression06:58
prologicbut stripping out unwanted packages06:58
hiro_oh, what did that refer to then?06:59
hiro_16:54 < prologic> and 108M live06:59
prologicthis is a list of what's installed in my minimal container/template06:59
prologicoh yes well the templates tar tarballs07:00
prologicbut when you create a vm, they become full extracted file systems07:00
prologicso yeah07:00
prologic36M vs. 114M07:01
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: mc: update to 4.8.807:08
prologicit's 28M as a tarball (template)07:10
prologicand 85M live07:10
jueno editor?07:16
prologicnogagplz, no editor07:18
prologicother than sed/grep/cat ofc07:19
prologicI kinda assume you would prepare your containers outside of the container07:19
prologici.e: use puppet/chef/ansible07:19
prologicspin it up, manage it via a tool07:19
juesorry, but seem a bit unrealistic to me07:20
jueat least something like nano is a must have IMO07:20
juethe nano package is around 100k, no that much at all :)07:21
prologicI'll whack that in at least07:21
prologic1 editor :)07:21
prologicbut I'm pretty happy so far07:21
prologic28M tar, 85M live, 8MB RAM (nothing runing)07:22
hiro_ed is enough lol07:22
prologic35M tar, 106M live07:26
prologicwith vim and wget re-added07:26
prologicI dont' think I can strip this down any further now07:29
prologicit's enough to get sshd running and most things on the cli working07:29
*** Romeo- has joined #crux07:59
*** Romeo- has quit IRC07:59
*** Romeo- has joined #crux07:59
*** Romeo` has joined #crux08:15
*** Romeo` has quit IRC08:15
*** Romeo` has joined #crux08:15
*** dkoby has quit IRC08:16
*** Romeo- has quit IRC08:19
prologic25M tarball, 75M live08:26
prologicg'night :)08:26
*** lasso has joined #crux08:45
hiro_prologic: congratulations08:47
hiro_you're getting near to my setup :)08:47
hiro_*very* near08:47
hiro_I'm fearing I might to get rid of Xvesa so I can still beat you, hehehe08:48
hiro_s/to/have to/08:48
*** DaViruz has joined #crux09:19
*** Rotwang has joined #crux09:43
*** v33 has joined #crux09:48
v33is it possible to get a  running distro of crux under 100mb?09:48
*** v33 has quit IRC09:55
hiro_crux is just a distro, so why not.10:12
*** joe9 has quit IRC10:26
*** joe9 has joined #crux10:28
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: radeon-ucode: updated to 2013040210:34
*** joe9 has quit IRC10:37
*** joe9 has joined #crux10:43
*** Romster has joined #crux11:13
*** lasso has quit IRC12:44
*** Rotwang has quit IRC13:10
*** darfo has joined #crux14:10
*** ody has quit IRC14:16
*** guzzano has joined #crux14:34
*** Henesy has joined #crux15:16
*** Kaishi has joined #crux15:16
Henesyis the cruxab port site down?15:16
Henesyevery time I try to "ports -u" cruxab always times out and is skipped15:17
*** p1r has joined #crux15:18 says it's fine15:20
Henesyany idea why this might be happening?15:22
jaegercould be your isp is having some routing issues temporarily15:23
Henesyalright, thanks15:24
jaegerI'm able to check it out here no problem15:24
Henesymine times out on all my machines :\15:24
Henesyno error, just timing out15:25
Henesydownloading from portsdb cruxab times out too :\15:26
*** Kaishi has quit IRC15:38
*** timcowchip has joined #crux17:08
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: smplayer: Updated to 0.8.417:44
*** timcowchip has quit IRC18:06
*** Romeo- has joined #crux18:10
*** Romeo` has quit IRC18:12
*** tilman has joined #crux18:17
*** mavrick61 has joined #crux18:38
HenesySo I ran "prt-get sysup" and when building btrfs-progs it Errors out on lzo/lzoconf.h no such file or directory. I have lzo installed, anyone have experience with btrfs/this error?18:38
*** joe9 has quit IRC18:48
HenesyGot it, had to use a lzo program in Romster's ports :)18:53
joacimlzo is in core19:00
Henesyyes, I had lzo, but it was failing19:02
HenesyRomster had lzop in his which I caught by mistake19:02
Henesyafter installing lzop it worked19:02
*** hiro_ has quit IRC19:30
*** hiro_ has joined #crux19:32
*** v33 has joined #crux19:54
v33hey guys, quick question. chromium keeps complaining about how chromium is using libpng 1.2.5, but the current version im on is 1.5.x and the x buttons are kinda messed up19:55
v33any way around this/19:56
Henesychromium is using 1.2.5 or wants it?19:57
v33its using 1.2.519:57
Henesyand you also have 1.5.x installed?20:02
Henesyand is it the x key on the keyboard or what?20:04
Henesyor do you mean the x-server?20:05
v331.5.x i dont recall wht the last digit was20:10
Henesyit's fine20:10
Henesywhat buttons are messed up exactly?20:11
Henesyjust the images?20:11
prologicv33:  to answer your earlier question - yes20:12
prologicthe minimal container I've built for openvz20:12
v33the X buttons20:12
v33for tabs20:12
prologicruns live at 85M20:12
v33prologic, do you always run depinst?20:13
prologicNB: OpenVZ CRUX minimal container - lots of packages deleted from the template20:13
v33well, when you install packages, do you always do so with depinst?20:13
prologicI don't think you've quite understood20:14
prologicwhat I've built I've built from the crux isos20:14
prologicof 2.6, 2.7 and 2.820:14
prologicthen just deleted a bunch of packages that are considered non-mandatory20:14
prologichopefully this paste demonstrates what I mean20:16
*** v33 has quit IRC20:18
*** v33 has joined #crux20:18
v33sorry about that, school wifi shitted out on me20:18
v33anyway, i always wanna make a super small crux install, but with all the packages, it turns out quite big20:19
prologicit's not possible without removing packages20:20
v33dear god. i feel like with X and a browser it'll get quite big. but thanks, i wann aattempt to do something similar.20:22
prologicX and a browser adds quite a lot to the size I'm afraid20:25
v33how did puppy linux do it?20:25
prologicanyway this is for server applications20:25
v33they're distros are usually 120 mb20:25
prologicstripping binaries20:25
prologicand lots of custom compiling20:25
prologicI'd say20:25
v33its pretty cool20:25
prologicand some tiny distress also use compression afaik20:25
prologicwhich id kinda cheating20:26
prologicmost livecds do afaik20:26
Henesyprologic, livecds do it all the time20:26
prologicyou can pack a lot in a compressed file system :)20:26
v33now, to get bumblebee to work20:26
prologicok all the time :)20:26
prologicthere ya go20:26
v33and crux and i will be fine20:26
Henesytar.xz is your friend20:26
prologicyou can pack a lot in an xz compressed file system20:27
prologicfor very little physical storage20:27
prologicand yes despite what was said here las tnight20:27
prologicbinaries do compress20:27
Henesythey can't compress much though can they?20:28
prologicsure they can20:28
prologicit's files that are already compressed won't compress much further20:28
v33its going to happen soon.... ^____^20:30
v33my poor laptop, i feel so bad for it. idles at 65C because of no bumblebee20:32
Henesythe old dell i've been working on is a thermonuclear reactor :P20:32
v33same reason?20:33
Henesy2 video cards to swap off after they overheat20:33
Henesygood idea right?20:33
Henesywell let's make the bottom a heatsink dell says20:33
Henesyand give it really junk fans20:33
Henesyit's been through 3 motherboards20:33
Henesythanks to heat20:33
v33oh man20:34
Henesynow it's out of warranty and a wonder it hasn't melted down20:34
Henesyi think the fact i don't run windoze or a x-server helps :P20:34
v33why not put a fan in there or something20:34
Henesyno space20:34
Henesyit's "compact"20:35
prologicHenesy:  what do you use as a graphical brwoser?20:35
Henesyyou mean on X?20:35
prologicyou use no guy whatsoever?20:35
HenesyGUI none at all20:35
prologicgood lord20:35
v33i tried that once...20:36
v33tip my hat off...20:36
v33its hard to do20:36
prologicI'll say20:36
prologicvery hard to do20:36
prologichow do you do anything graphically?20:36
Henesystartx doesn't even work because of some xorg upgrade nastiness20:36
prologicview photots?20:36
prologichow do you multitask/switch to other apps?20:36
Henesyi have used ratpoison in the past20:36
Henesyi played with e17 for awhile and have it installed20:37
Henesyphotos i can view on my alt laptop20:37
Henesybut if i want i could compile links2 and use that20:37
prologicoh so you do use a guy ? :)20:37
prologicjust not on this PC20:37
Henesyi AM running a framebuffer console after all20:37
Henesythat was fun to set up20:37
prologicso you could in theory view graphical things20:37
Henesygreat learning experience20:37
prologicplay some games20:37
Henesyi could, yes20:37
Henesymy alt laptop is for schoolwork and the like20:38
Henesya semi-old macbook triple booting osx, linux, and windows20:38
Henesyin that order20:38
HenesyI plan on nuking it and v-boxing windows next year20:38
Henesyi have no use for osx and i hate it20:39
Henesyspeaking of links220:39
Henesyi miss reddit on here20:39
Henesyi think i'll do that now20:39
v33whats your favorite text browser20:39
Henesylinks2 probably20:40
Henesyelinks is nice too20:40
Henesyi absolutely despise lynx20:40
Henesywith a burning flaming passion20:40
v33i wanna try one20:40
Henesyelinks if you don't want to play with frambuffer20:40
Henesyand elinks is in /contrib i believe20:40
Henesyor /opt20:40
Henesy"ports -l | grep links"20:40
Henesyprologic, I have been using console-only mode on at least one computer for about 2 years now, learned alot in the time20:41
Henesy(and I'm still a horrible noob most of the time)20:43
prologicI guess I've been doing development with UNIX as an IDE20:43
prologicfor the past 10+ years or so now20:43
Henesyprops for that!20:43
HenesyI can't say I've been using *nix for that long :P20:44
prologicso my setup at home concists of CRUX 2.6 + XFCE4 + Compis Fision (with eZoom - because I"m vision impaired) + 3 workspaces each with a full screen terminal window20:44
prologicworkspace 0 normally just contains X-Chat, Pidgin and Chrome20:44
Henesyvery nice20:44
v33you like the fancy stuff huh20:44
HenesyXFCE is nice, I got used to it after using slack20:44
prologicno you didn't read properly :)20:44
prologicI use Compiz fusion for it's eZoom facility :)20:45
v33i like the fancy stuff, but, battery drainer :/20:45
prologicI don't like fancy stuff :)20:45
prologicI hate it :)20:45
v33why is that?20:45
prologicanything too graphically complex I just ignore and never use20:45
prologicyou work it out :)20:45
prologicwould a vision impaired guy love complex graphics? :)20:46
Henesywhatcha got if you don't mind sharing?20:46
prologicI don't think so :)20:46
v33quite good20:47
HenesyI got this20:48
v33quite the read20:48
Henesyprologic, do you use the cruxab repo?20:51
prologicfor compiz?20:52
Henesyjust cruxab20:52
prologicoh no20:52
prologicwhy what is it?20:52
Henesya port repo, i haven't been able to connect to it on any machine, neither has one of my local pals. someone earlier was able to, but he was non-states if memory serves20:53
prologicthat doesn't tell me anything about what kind of repo it is20:55
prologicor what ports it contains20:55
Henesyonly a handful, namely links2 :320:56
HenesyI don't feel like compiling anything more today after dealing with wine20:56
Henesyit's on /portsdb.20:56
Henesyit's on /portsdb20:56
Henesywell no, not links220:56
Henesybut stuff20:56
Henesy(it's very late where I am)20:57
Henesy(bear with me)20:57
HenesyI think originally I added it to play around with fish without compiling it myself, but I ended up doing that anyways20:59
v33what else is new21:08
HenesyI'm "getting up" in the "morning" in <5 hours :P21:09
*** v33 has quit IRC21:09
HenesyHow could I pass a "configure" argument to pkgmk?21:22
Henesysilly me, never mind :)21:25
*** crash_ has joined #crux21:33
*** Henesy has quit IRC21:41
*** v33 has joined #crux22:02
v33libpng warning: Application built with libpng-1.2.45 but running with 1.5.15 <--- thats what it says22:02
frinnstwhat complains about that?22:45
frinnstah, so it compiles with a bundled libpng but links against the system library..22:46
v33not quite sure, but seems lik eit22:47
*** v33 has quit IRC22:47
prologichome time ay!23:28
prologicwould anyone payn$12/year for a znc bounver service? ($23:29
*** shirokuro has joined #crux23:31
frinnstirc bouncers.. so -98 :D23:34
prologicif there so 1998. why do folks still use the,? ;)23:37
prologicI do ;)23:37
prologicHTTP is so 1980s but its still in widespread use! ;)23:38
*** shirokuro has quit IRC23:42

Generated by 2.11.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!