IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2013-04-26

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RomsterBurnZeZ, what uses golang?02:22
BurnZeZI think go does02:23
Romsterthat's obvious but what else.02:23
BurnZeZI think also go02:23
BurnZeZHeh02:23
Romster-_-02:23
Romstergoling also known as go02:23
BurnZeZProgrammers02:23
BurnZeZProgrammers that write go02:24
Romsterdon't start trolling else i'll ignore you02:24
BurnZeZI'm only half-joking02:24
BurnZeZI just find it weird that there's no package02:24
BurnZeZIt's not like I'm miffed02:26
Romsterit'll only be built if someone has a use for it02:27
BurnZeZJust thought it was kinda weird02:27
Romsteror if i'm crazy enough to package every god damn thing i see over 400 ports now.02:27
BurnZeZHeh02:27
BurnZeZI package most things I use, myself02:27
Romstergetting out of that behavour, msot of it was me testing what i liked or not.02:27
BurnZeZ(Mainly because my packages are incompatible)02:28
Romsterwhere are your ports?02:28
BurnZeZLocally stored02:28
BurnZeZThey don't fit in with the others02:28
Romsterwhat use is that make them publicly available on portsdb02:28
Romsteryou can do what you like in your own repo.02:29
Romstersome of mine don't fit in either.02:29
BurnZeZThey're designed for a system that uses musl/clang02:29
BurnZeZNo GNU tools02:29
Romsterhurd?02:29
BurnZeZwat02:29
BurnZeZNo GNU software02:29
Romsterhmm k02:29
Romsternich market i haven't even considered02:29
Romsterbsd fan?02:30
BurnZeZNah02:30
BurnZeZI just don't like bloat02:30
Romstercrux isn't bloated though02:30
Romsterit's just what i add does make it bloated -_-02:30
BurnZeZGNU is bloat02:31
BurnZeZgcc, GNU coreutils02:31
BurnZeZAll that stuff02:31
Romstermake your ports aviable i'd like to poke around sometime.02:31
BurnZeZYeah, I plan on it02:31
BurnZeZI'm working on an installation disc and such02:31
Romsterif oyu got no where to host i can at crux.ster.so/ports/02:31
BurnZeZThanks for the offer02:32
Romsterthough git02:32
Romsterthough google code seems to work now that we got certificates in core.02:32
BurnZeZThe problem is that it REALLY won't fit in a regular CRUX system02:32
BurnZeZI've replace bash with rc02:32
BurnZeZreplaced*02:32
BurnZeZAlso working on an init replacement02:33
Romsterright so it's really a crux fork as such02:33
BurnZeZYeah02:33
BurnZeZI still need to rewrite the pkgutils in rc02:33
Romstermuch like my half baked hvlinux turned out to be but it was gnu jsut repalced init and optimised and had nls.02:34
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BurnZeZHeh02:34
Romsterthere is a few flavours of pkgutils about han has a bash version of it.02:34
Romsteri got a copy of that here somewhere.02:34
BurnZeZrc isn't really compatible with other shells02:34
Romsteri wouldn't mind if we could use dash for rc or something lighter.02:35
Romsterbash is so big and slow.02:35
BurnZeZOh, there's a misunderstanding02:35
BurnZeZWhen I said rc, I meant the rc shell02:35
Romsteroh not rc run scripts02:35
BurnZeZYeah, sorry02:35
Romsterhow confusing.02:35
BurnZeZIndeed02:35
Romstershould clal it rcsh then02:36
Romstercall*02:36
BurnZeZhttp://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/4th_edition/papers/rc02:36
BurnZeZThat one02:36
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BurnZeZI've rewritten the boot scripts02:38
Romsterwould of been some effort.02:38
BurnZeZNot too much02:38
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BurnZeZrc made everything pretty easy02:38
Romsteryeah crux is meant to be easy to hack at by design.02:38
BurnZeZIt's a nice distro02:39
BurnZeZProbably the best around, at this point.02:39
BurnZeZI'm surprised it took so long to hear about it02:39
Romsterit's about.02:41
Romsteris even on the linux timeline02:41
Romsterafk work03:03
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tuxhathello i gave crux linux 3.0 a go for the first time eh.. i must say very nice distro i like that it has a unix philosophy in it and it keeping it simple and logic. I like that it uses a (freebsd) ports / bsd world to it and i love the "ports" cli app very logic very easy very smart, and well pkgadd :P but i like the ports system how its setup, net work wasn't to confusing it was pretty simple, i like the setup of 03:16
tuxhatthanks for listening .. have a good one eh03:18
tuxhatcheers from canada -- Tuxhat03:18
prologicheh03:34
prologicyes CRUX/Linux is awesome! :)03:34
diverseWhy suffix the "Linux" when CRUX by itself is simplier to say (KISS), not tied to anything (use a different kernel), and just plain awesome to say?03:42
diverseBurnZeZ: what are you going to use for your toolchain, bsd utils?04:00
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prologicdiverse:  point taken :)04:35
prologicCRUX is Awesome :)04:35
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frinnstREAD ONLY FRIDAY MY ASS06:56
frinnstfuuuuuuuuuu06:56
teK_I had some incident with several cars in the companies parking lot06:56
teK_stupid fuckers :p06:57
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timcowchipI deleted claws-mail-fancy-plugin from http://crux.ster.so/ports/timcowchip/07:47
timcowchipor I so I thought07:47
diverseteK_: huh?07:59
diversefrinnst: what makes friday read only day?08:00
diversealso does anyone here use btrfs on a daily basis?08:02
diverseI would like to make a raid 0 with it.08:02
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frinnsthttp://isitreadonlyfriday.com/09:34
frinnstand yes, i run btrfs09:34
diversefrinnst: is it pretty stable?09:35
frinnstif youre gonna use it, you *really* need to be up2date with your kernel09:35
frinnstdepends on what features you wanna use, raid0/1/10 - pretty much, yeah09:35
frinnstraid5/6 - fuck no! :)09:35
frinnstI tested raid1 on two 3TB drives, was slow as hell09:35
frinnstraid0 is nice09:36
frinnstperformance is not as good as other filesystems at the moment09:36
diversehmm09:36
frinnstbut good enough09:36
diversewell I am more concern about the filesystem corrupting my files.09:37
diverseSounds like you have to be really bleeding edge though.09:39
diversefrinnst: what else does it require?09:41
teK_btrfstools..09:41
diverseteK_: as far as maintainance goes, i mean09:43
diverseteK_: are you a user yourself?09:45
teK_indeed09:45
teK_in a netbook/ssd setup09:45
teK_so no fancy raid-* for me09:45
diverseteK_: you had no issues at all?09:46
teK_been using it for quite some time without problems. Sometimes write operations seem to get stuck for about 5 seconds with the hdd-led blinking as hell but I don't know if it's the FS or my crappy OCZ synapse-pseudo-cache ssd09:46
teK_this occurs quite seldom so I don't consider that an issue for me09:46
teK_s/me/myself09:47
diversewhat kernel version are you running?09:47
teK_puh09:47
teK_3.6 through 3.8-something09:47
diversejust tell me what your "uname -r" output says.09:49
teK_oh and /home is encrypted so it seems to play well with the whole vfs/dmcrypt layers09:49
diversenice09:49
teK_well my laptop is at home sitting on my desk and I'm here @the office, and supposed to work09:49
teK_I think I use 3.8.4 at present and I didn't give a shit about particular kernel versions before trying it09:50
diverseSo btrfs is something to consider now...09:53
diverseI was thinking of going with ext4 + mdadm09:54
teK_I haven't noticed any improvements over ext4 and I don't really do snapshots and the other features btrfs provides. But for day-to-day use and unimportant data: yeah..09:54
diverseteK_: what do you mean by unimportant data?09:56
diversedata you don't care about losing?09:57
teK_I would not put my multi tera byte collection of family photos and movies etc. on it without a backup.. but then: wouldn't do that with any FS09:57
frinnstteK_: you probably dont have trim enabled if your /home is encrypted10:01
frinnstyeah you need a backup10:01
frinnstbut again, you always do :)10:01
teK_yes10:02
teK_that may be the case, although it's mounted with -o discard10:02
frinnsthaha brilliant. our old netapp controller battery has started to fail. we have support on it till the end of april :D10:03
frinnstbrilliant timing10:03
teK_haha :D10:03
frinnstteK_: you need to enable trim passthrough through lvm/luks10:03
frinnsti did it recently on my encrypted laptop10:03
teK_but doesn't this make it less secure?10:04
teK_but thanks for the hint, didn't know, dmcrypt could do that10:05
diverseteK_: which FS you use to store your family photos and movies?10:05
teK_is this a sysctl oder a kernel option?10:05
diverseext4 right?10:08
teK_xfs10:08
teK_but those two are interchangeable10:09
teK_at least to me. It's just with it security... no numbers. Only (counter)measures and a gut feeling10:09
diverseWhat do you guys use for backups?10:10
teK_*just the same with10:10
teK_usb hdd.10:10
Romstertimcowchip resynced ports10:59
Romsterread only friday so i shouldn't commit anything eh11:02
teK_I fixed to bugs today, more to come11:03
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: netpbm: 10.57.00 -> 10.61.0011:07
teK_s/to/two/..11:09
Romstersee :)11:11
frinnst"oder" haha silly german11:12
frinnsthttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt_with_LUKS11:13
frinnstyeah, not "optimal" for security.. but probably good enough11:13
frinnstbackup: dedicated machine11:13
frinnst(using btrfs) :)11:14
teK_where'd you take that oder from?11:14
teK_Oder is a river, too.11:14
frinnst <teK_> is this a sysctl oder a kernel option?11:15
teK_arg :D11:16
teK_how is german silly11:17
teK_ES IST EINE WUNDERVOLLE SPRACHE11:17
frinnst...11:17
frinnsthave you booked your swedish vacation yet? :)11:18
teK_no :\11:18
teK_won't happen this year11:18
frinnstbooo11:18
teK_we're going to Zakynthos, again. \o/11:18
frinnstgermans in greece.. is that safe? they might lynch you :p11:19
Romsterhttp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.utilities.util-linux-ng/ [ANNOUNCE] util-linux 2.2311:19
RomsterThe cryptoloop support in the commands mount(8) and losetup(8) has been11:19
RomsterREMOVED. The encryption= mount option and -e,-E,--encryption losetup options11:19
Romsterare no more supported.11:19
Romsterthe hell is this?11:19
teK_I can only talk about last year's "climate" and it was very welcoming and hospitable11:19
teK_at least if you stayed away from the 'party town' that was crowded with the English11:21
teK_=)11:21
frinnstfdisk(8):11:21
frinnst  - provides experimental support for GUID Partition Table (GPT), the11:21
frinnst    implementation is still not complete and some (unimportant) features are missing.11:21
frinnstwee11:21
teK_thank god, we have partition magic11:22
Romsterwhat replaces that removed option in util-linux11:22
frinnstblkdiscard(8): - this NEW COMMAND discard sectors on a device (for example on SSD disks)11:23
frinnstCryptoloop is vulnerable to watermarking attacks,[1] making it possible to determine presence of watermarked data on the encrypted filesystem:11:25
teK_so I'll adjust my cryptsetup-call for my ssd, then. ty frinnst11:25
frinnsthttp://mareichelt.com/pub/texts.cryptoloop.html11:25
frinnstRomster: are you using cryptoloop?11:29
Romsterso what replaces that functionality?11:29
Romsteri maybe11:29
teK_:D11:29
frinnstnothing. cryptoloop is fubar'ed11:30
frinnstread the url above11:30
Romsterso lets all break mounting for everyone?11:32
Romsterwith no alternative way.11:33
frinnstnothing is broken?11:33
frinnstthey only removed a deprecated encryption method11:33
frinnstthat nobody should use11:33
frinnstif i understand everything correctly11:33
Romsterso we all should use loop-aes or something now... i'm confused on what the correct way is now.11:36
frinnsteverybody uses dm-crypt ?11:39
Romsteras far as i know.11:41
Romsteri'm pretty much brain dead from work, might be best i stop trying to read about it.11:42
frinnsthehe, but yeah, its two very different things11:47
frinnstFirst of all, because too many people confuse the terms "cryptoloop/Cryptographic API/dm-crypt/loop-AES", let me point out that cryptoloop, dm-crypt, and loop-AES are three different crypto implementations on linux systems:11:47
Romsteryeah i read that far11:48
Romsteri can't just go google for it as i'll likely get conflicting information11:48
frinnstdoubt it affects anybody really12:09
Romsterhttps://lkml.org/lkml/2012/11/2/16212:13
Romsteragk>   the functionailty has been *replaced* by cryptsetup options12:13
Romster<agk> the release notes should have said that12:13
Romster<agk> - you can still access the data if you use crypsetup instead12:13
Romsteragk> it's mentioned in a disguised lkml message12:13
Romsterreliable source lvm2 dev12:17
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frinnsthttp://i.imgur.com/Zde06bR.jpg14:31
profillol14:31
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BurnZeZ<diverse> BurnZeZ: what are you going to use for your toolchain, bsd utils?14:40
BurnZeZRight now I'm still trying to decide that one14:40
BurnZeZThere are a lot of choices14:40
sh4rm4BurnZeZ, so you figured how to make a musl/clang toolchain ?15:14
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diverseBurnZeZ: have you looked at Mozilla's Rust programming language?16:29
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teK_http://kernel.opensuse.org/cgit/kernel/commit/?id=0eead9ab41da33644ae2c97c57ad03da636a042216:56
teK_-#undef CORE_DUMP /* probably broken */16:56
teK_+#undef CORE_DUMP /* definitely broken */16:56
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timcowchipre:timcowchip resynced ports thanks Romster17:50
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BurnZeZsh4rm4: Mostly20:43
BurnZeZdiverse: I have no experience with rust20:43
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