IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2013-09-08

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abyxcosG'day. What is the difference between Crux's ports/pkgsrc, and netbsd's ports/pkgsrc? And/or any reason Crux doesn't just use Netbsds? (I'm assuming the decision was made before Netbsd's was usefull on Linux.)02:23
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teK_pkgsrc is based on make06:49
teK_as for the result (a tar'd packages on CRUX), I'm not sure if pkgsrc intends results to be exportable and reusable06:50
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teK_frinnst: antoher one from the management:06:58
teK_+We do not condone or support Canonical in the course of action they have06:58
teK_+chosen, and will not carry XMir patches upstream.06:58
teK_+-The Management06:58
tilmanjue: should we upgrade the key length in mksslcert from 1024 to 2048? that's what recommends for RSA keys07:22
lennartanyone else having problems running the post-install script of texlive because of a missing file?08:24
teK_built it some days ago and did not have the problem08:26
lennartteK_: was that your first install of texlive on that system?08:29
lennartmaybe that's why you were having no problems. It failed when updating the font maps. If you still had old font maps it might have gone unnoticed08:34
juetilman: good catch, thanks09:04
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Rotwangand I'm considering emigrating to china [;10:15
Rotwangchinese culture is waay different than culture of the european countries10:17
Rotwanglanguage is a barrier as well10:17
frinnstindeed, and the language...... :)10:17
Rotwangfood is not very good10:17
Rotwangso it is a tough decision [;10:18
Rotwangbut on other hand china is going to be the best country to live in in the future (or so I think)10:19
tilmanWTF is wrong with you rotwang?10:21
Rotwangtilman: sup?10:21
tilmanthe political situation in china doesnt bother you at all?10:21
tilmanhuman rights and stuff?10:21
RotwangI agree that it is a worrying factor10:22
tilmanwhat is it about china that makes you want to live there?10:22
frinnsti read that they are censoring the word "censor" in all its forms :)10:23
Rotwangtilman: there is no particular reason, it is just that I'm hungry to see world outside my country10:23
Rotwangand beijing is as good place to start as any10:24
frinnstsingapore? everyone speaks english10:25
frinnstanyways, good luck :)10:26
Rotwangsingapore may be tough to find a job10:26
Rotwangsimilarly to zurich10:26
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Rotwangsome ideas from 60's and 70's10:32
Rotwangreally good talk10:32
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cruxbot[core.git/3.0]: openssl: use key length of 2048 in mksslcert11:25
cruxbot[core.git/3.0]: libusb: update to 1.0.1711:25
cruxbot[xorg.git/3.0]: xorg-libxaw: updated to 1.0.1211:57
cruxbot[xorg.git/3.0]: xorg-libxmu: updated to 1.1.211:57
cruxbot[xorg.git/3.0]: xorg-libxpm: updated to 3.5.1112:02
cruxbot[xorg.git/3.0]: xorg-libxrandr: updated to 1.4.212:02
cruxbot[xorg.git/3.0]: xorg-libxv: updated to 1.0.1012:02
cruxbot[xorg.git/3.0]: xorg-libsm: updated to 1.2.212:02
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Romsteri'm back but i haven't done any more crux stuff yet.13:05
Romsternor even checked emails13:05
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frinnsti have +250 mails in my inbox13:46
frinnstthinking of just deleting the lot :)13:46
Romstermost are filtered in to there own directories.13:53
abyxcosteK_: Netbsd's pkgsrc is based on make too :D13:58
abyxcosteK_: My question was more an architectural one; how does the innards of pkgsrc/ports differ between netbsd and crux?13:58
abyxcosteK_: I also didn't notice any mention in the docs of which pkgsrc/ports exactly were used as inspiration. I'm assuming freebsd or netbsd here though.13:59
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abyxcosAlso, how easy is it to create pre/post install scripts/hooks for the package manager? This never seems to make it into the docs (haven't read the man pages completely yet.)14:10
doomicideabyxcos: Add an executable script calle pre/post-install in the port-directory, this way if prt-get is invoked with --pre/post-install it is executed automatically14:12
Romsteror set in /etc/prt-get.conf14:14
abyxcosdoomicide: I was looking at the package manager level, not the package level.14:15
abyxcos(Are the man pages online?)14:15
Romsternot what i'm aware of.14:18
abyxcosRomster: Does the .conf variable allow scripts to be run on a package-manager level, or does it just let you give them different names?14:19
teK_abyxcos: only pkgsrc is based on make.14:19
Romsteronly on a prt-get level.14:19
teK_I don't know if pkgmk was inspired by any of the BSDs.. /etc/rc was, though..14:20
Romsternot true deb uses Makefiles too. but that's out of this context with BSD.14:20
teK_pkgmk rolls plain tar-Files with a naming convention for package name, version and revision14:20
teK_and we did not talk about deb14:20
teK_afk again14:20
Romsterno i only mentioned that as deb also uses Makefiles.14:20
abyxcosRomster: The end result I'm looking for is to have prt trigger a filesystem snapshot before it starts, and clean up when it exits.14:21
Romsterthere is documentation for the Pkgfile stuff on the site though. not sure what you require exactly.14:21
abyxcosRomster: Yea, I've been reading through that. Going to re-read it now that I'm awake.14:22
Romsteroh you'd haev to tack commands into every directory ports Pkgfile resides for pre-install and post-install by the sounds of it. we have no global hook14:22
Romsterunless you wrap prt-get command in an alias todo a FS snapshot before and after.14:23
abyxcosYea, that's probably what I'd have to do. And more likely the portable solution...14:23
Romsteryou might be after my prt-clean script i got in romster/14:23
Romsterit'll remove all installed packages minus core and a few special ones, that i use to depinst other ports and test for missing dependencies.14:24
abyxcosI was looking at rolling my own distro when I ran across Crux, seems like it solves most of what I need.14:24
Romsterclone edit what you need. some have already done that but seems even the guy using crux for minecraft moved to something else.14:25
abyxcosTop of my list for solutions were a vanilla (LFS-ish) setup with netbsd's pkgsrc/ports, followed by debian or centos. I was considering arch again, but anyone you can get for support there is a bunch of tits :P14:27
Romsterarch pinched ideas form us anyways.14:27
Romsterlol they are a bit up themselfs a shame really.14:28
abyxcosIt did? Arch always felt like gentoo but with all the bad parts.14:28
abyxcosArch is also the only distro that *always* gives me grub and various other boot errors.14:28
Romsteror was i thinking of slackware...14:28
abyxcosThey could both have. I don't follow arch very closely.14:29
abyxcosAnd I've never looked at slackware because they don't have dependency resolution.14:29
Romsteryeah PKGBUILD shows some resemblance to Pkgfile14:29
abyxcosThey all look like netbsd to me :D14:30
Romsterslackware uses a shell script with everything needed to make it. no dependency resolution like you said.14:30
abyxcosRomster: I think the biggest annoyance I hit is package managers that refuse to deal with both ports and packages.14:40
Romsterwell prt-get uses pkgadd pkgmk and pkgrm14:41
Romsterpkgmk makes the package. prt-get does it all if the package is already built it'll just pkgadd it and skip on pkgmk14:41
Romsterthough the package has to be built first.14:42
abyxcosRomster: Specifically noticable on arch, but there isn't a good way to say "install the binary if it exists, if not build it."14:42
Romstersome of use supply a few packages but it's not ideal. best to make them based on your CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS and march14:42
Romsterabyxcos, pkgmk does that. it'll just skip building it if it's package data is not older than the Pkgfile.14:43
Romsterthen goes straight to pkgadd that uses the built package archive.14:43
abyxcosBah, I was hoping that Crux would have a decent-sized binary repo.14:44
Romstercore is covered. i've done a few bigger ports. but they need building again.14:44
Romsteryou only need to build once. unless you got a pc like 10 years old it wont be much effort.14:45
Romsterprt-get depinst foo14:45
Romstercrux is source based.14:45
Romsterbut it saves the built packages as such wine#1.7.0-1.pkg.tar.gz14:46
abyxcosEh, I've found as soon as you need to compile, you're going to hit build errors.14:46
Romsternot always but sometimes.14:46
abyxcosMy new record is 3 days into gentoo :P14:46
Romsterreally if you hit a issue report it. it's quite easy to get around being that crux is so simple.14:48
Romstertrying to fix it in an ebuild would be like taking out the sledge hammer14:48
abyxcosYea, I saw that most of the pkgfiles were fairly straightforward. Gentoo ebuilds have gotten much more complicated than when I started.14:49
abyxcosYou wouldn't believe that ebuilds used to look exactly like pkgfiles.14:49
abyxcos(I went to try and update qemu; that's now a 200 line shell script.)14:51
Romsterwe pride on simplicity.14:52
abyxcosI suspect that was more a maintainer issue, but I feel it sumarizes the direction gentoo is heading.14:52
lennartteK_: I just tried building llvm and it complained about the missing binary 'swig'. Could you add that as a dependency please?15:00
Romsterbed time later15:17
abyxcosHow hard is it to install crux into a chroot?15:17
jaegernot hard at all15:18
tilmanhow much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?15:19
abyxcos*woodchuck could chuck wood?$15:21
tilmanpretty sure its would, not could15:21
abyxcosI've always heard it with could at the end.15:21
abyxcosDon't suppose anyone's made a zfs port?15:23
abyxcosAnd/or, what is the preffered initrd generator?15:23
tilmanabyxcos: i'm not a native speaker, so i might very well be wrong :)15:23
abyxcostilman: Either are gramatically correct; but using could at the end makes the rythm flow better.15:24
jaegerI learned it as "could", too, for what that's worth15:24
tilmanthere's a difference to the rhythm?15:24
tilmanalso, would ~= wood15:25
tilmanmakes more sense that way15:25
tilmanoh well15:25
jaegerIn the end it doesn't matter :)15:25
abyxcosIt most definitely does. Because a woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a wood chuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.15:27
abyxcosI assume no one's ported zfs then?15:33
jaegerI did a year or so ago but stopped using it with linux so never published those... sorry15:33
abyxcosWell, more importantly I need an initrd generator/scripts. zfs these days it just ./configure && make.15:34
jaegerperhaps would work15:37
abyxcosSpiffy. Any experience with it?15:39
jaegerNot yet, just searched for it. I wrote my own initramfs generator but mine doesn't support any of the high-level stuff like lvm2, dmraid, etc.15:40
jaegerso I wouldn't recommend it15:40
abyxcosI need depmod support, and root= support.15:41
frinnstuse a proper fs (btrfs)! :)15:46
abyxcosfrinnst: Does it work yet?15:47
frinnstof course15:48
frinnsti've run it as my primary fs for almost 2 years now15:48
frinnstthough it is "unstable" still15:49
tilmanalmost 315:49
frinnstbut parts are stable, depends on what you need i guess15:49
tilmani've only regretted it on a few occasions15:49
frinnsti've had one dataloss (when testing new features)15:49
frinnstwhat issue did you have tilman ?15:50
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tilmanfrinnst: stress caused by not having fsck15:51
frinnstah :)15:51
abyxcosAll I *need* is a filesystem that is very fault tolerant. Has to survive forced hard unmounts, and be able to get my files back.15:52
abyxcosAll the rest of the features just make me happy.15:53
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abyxcosI wouldn't mind compression and software raid though.15:53
frinnstraid0/1 is stable and runs smooth15:55
frinnst5/6 - not so much15:55
frinnstabyxcos: so ext3/4 then :)15:55
abyxcosfrinnst: ext3/4 has really slow remounts, but basically, yes.15:56
abyxcosfrinnst: zfs makes it really easy for me to spin up VMs though, and I would like to play around with the snapshotting more.15:58
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teK_lennart: I will remove lldb again so swig will not be a dependency17:14
teK_sorry for any inconvenience caused17:14
lennartteK_: oh, ok. no problem, it was easily fixed :)17:15
abyxcosIs /opt or /usr/local prefered?17:39
frinnstwe dont use local17:39
abyxcosAny reason?17:40
frinnstuser stuff should go there, not distro17:40
abyxcosNow I need to find a way to move /boot and that EFI partition onto a thumbdrive...17:47
frinnstafk, monza! \o/17:48
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abyxcosIs there an easy way to do a chroot install, or should I just download and mount the iso?20:25
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abyxcosAre there any good examples of a kernel module port floating around?23:05

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