IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2013-09-14

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diversefrinnst & jaeger: Noctua recently released their 2 new cpu heatsink coolers the NH U14S and NH U12S which have about equal the performance of H60 cooling and while giving RAM clearance00:57
diversehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAZvub8TQtQ00:59
abyxcosYay ram clearance.01:03
abyxcosAlthough if you don't buy ram with fins, you should be fine.01:03
nogagplzthe fins make it look cooler though01:04
joacimMy original pentium had a passive cooler01:05
joacimnow you need a huge heat sink just to get a quiet computer01:05
abyxcosI don't have a window, so that part doesn't actually matter :D01:05
abyxcosjoacim: I think I can passively cool mine, I just can't sustain it at max with passive.01:06
joacimi think some of the 35W TDP cpus from intel cam be cooled passively01:07
nogagplzis that the ones soldered to the mini itx boards01:07
joacimyou'll still need good airflow i guess01:07
diversejoacim: with Noctuas fan's they are very quiet compared to others. This one tower heatsink with those fans give good performance while still being quiet01:07
diverse*fans01:07
abyxcos140mm fans on a 140mm brick.01:07
joacimcore i3-i7 series cpus whose name ends with a T01:08
joacimthose are desktop models01:08
joacimhttp://ark.intel.com/products/6570301:09
joacimsomething like this01:09
joacimi dont know if i'd be comfortable with a fan-less cpu cooler, but it could be fun to toy around with01:10
diverseunless your case has like 3 or more 140mm fans on the front of your chassis, its pretty pointless01:11
abyxcosI'm also pretty sure I can run my noctua fanless.01:11
abyxcos1x 140mm in the front, 1x 140mm in the back.01:11
joacimi dont think you need lots of fans, just a couple of fans throughout the whole chassis, and good airflow01:12
abyxcosThe 140x140mm brick does most of the cooling, at my use the fans are just overkill (and to pretend I'm cooling the ram.)01:12
abyxcos(I have a fractal r4 silent case, the airflow isn't great.)01:12
abyxcos(But the whole thing runs really cool, even under load.)01:13
joacimhttp://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=30301:14
joacimI would like this one01:14
joacimwill need an matx board first tho, so i'll probably get that when I decide to upgrade from my old core 2 system01:15
abyxcosI like those m-atx cases, but they get so cramped when you add a graphics card.01:17
joacimI don't really mind. I don't put much inside of my computer anyways01:18
abyxcos(If you haven't come across it, silentpcreview has some great reviews and pictures of builds with most of the mini cases, so you can get an idea of what fits, and when you need an angle grinder.)01:18
joacimthe area around my cpu is cramped on my normal sized atx, but i dont think matx will make that worse01:19
abyxcosThe fractal r4 is slightly bigger than I would like, but not as large as I thought it would be. Also, I needed 4x ram slots.01:19
joacimi usually check spcr when i'm looking for stuff01:19
abyxcosLian has some nice looking cases too.01:20
joacimi just want quiet and good looking really. don't feel the need for high end performance.01:21
joacimi have an old one. i really like it, but it is missing quite a few features that newer cases have01:21
joacimwire management is tricky in mine01:21
jaegerAll 3 of my desktop cases are similar in size and appearance, heh01:21
abyxcosIf you wait long enough, we should have 16Gb dimms for cheap.01:21
jaegerstraight lines, dark colors, no weird shit01:21
joacimheh. i just have plain naked aluminium01:22
jaegerCorsair Obsidian 650D, Antec P182, Lian-Li PC-60B01:22
abyxcosI only need mid-level performance, I can get that on m-atx, but the ram is tool imiting.01:22
joacimboth my mac mini and my lian-li01:22
abyxcoss/tool/too/01:22
joacimi notice that some boards only offer two dimm slots01:23
joacimdon't like that.01:23
joacimeven tho i only ever use two dimms01:23
abyxcosAll the m-atx on newegg are 2dimm. There might have been one server m-atx with 4dimm.01:23
joacimi tend to replace when i upgrade. only exception is my desktop since getting 4 dimms from ebay was cheaper than just two.01:24
abyxcosI'm probably going to drop another 2x8 in mine soon. Hopefully we'll have decent 32Gb or 64Gb dimms when I need to upgrade next.01:24
joacimwas a lot of matx boards on komplett.no that had 4 dimm slots, but they all disappeared over the summer01:24
joacimmakes me wonder if i should be quick about getting my matx system01:25
joacimi notice a lot forum-argumentors get angry when they see someone have more than 4-8 GB of RAM in their system.01:25
joacimI feel that ram is so cheap, so why not get more01:26
jaegerI only get mad if it's a 32-bit system :)01:26
abyxcosWell, windows doesn't really need more than 6Gb.01:26
joacimI get mad when I see someone with 3.5 GB reported ram on a 64-bit system01:26
diverseI got 32gb of ram running at 2133MHz OC here01:26
abyxcosMost games will only use 3-4Gb, 8 tends to be a waste.01:27
joacim4GB is ok on a mac, but more is better01:27
abyxcos4Gb is only good on a mac if you have a SSD or are running 10.6 or lower.01:27
joacimdepends on the software. just the base system with email clients, rss readers, and browsers eat up a lot of ram on osx01:28
abyxcosYou need 8Gb on 10.7 and higher (and a SSD too.)01:28
abyxcosSafari puts me at 3Gb+6Gb swap.01:28
joacimi dont know. I ran 5GB for a bit on mine and it was ok. 8GB is very comfortable tho01:28
abyxcosFirefox will stay within 3.01:28
diversewow that makes firefox look good01:29
joacimI had to run with 2GB for a week too. that was a week of torture01:29
abyxcosFirefox has the best ram profile. It has very low overhead. Chrome has a lower starting point, but terrible scaling.01:29
joacimhttp://cl.ly/RNh301:30
joacimMy video game computer only has 4GB, but I don't multitask much on that01:30
abyxcosSafari (osx) has the lowest footprint, and I think exponential scaling with a low multiplier.01:30
jaegerThey'll all happily piss away 32GB of RAM if you leave them open long enough01:30
joacimmost games are 32-bit processes anyways01:30
jaegerhate browsers01:30
abyxcosFor less than 10 tabs, safari is probably the best, but over that, firefox wins out.01:31
diverseyay for screwing over memory management when it comes to having massive amounts of ram \o/ /sarcasm01:31
joacimheh. noticed firefox needs 4GB or something to build01:31
joacimI had heavy swapping when I tried to build that with only 2GB of ram01:31
diverseits needs 4gb for just the building?01:34
abyxcosYea.01:34
diversethat needs fixing01:34
abyxcosIt can run fine with 1Gb for about 10 minutes.01:34
jaegerthere was a big news article when they crossed that threshold a while back01:34
abyxcosThe whole browser needs fixing; but a 4Gb build is what triggers that comment? :D01:35
joacimI remember when firefox was the light weight browser01:35
abyxcosSame. I also remember when chrome was the lightweight one.01:36
jaegerI don't remember a lightweight browser. ever :)01:37
abyxcosIs there a port of xxxterm?01:37
jaegertext-based notwithstanding01:37
abyxcosDillo.01:37
diverseman, 4gb just to build that sucker01:37
joacimI tried those vim-like browsers, but I could never quite get the hang of them01:37
abyxcosEh, you can still clicky on things with your mouse if you want.01:38
abyxcosAnd you type :e instead of ^l to get an address.01:38
joacimstill need to keyboard away at thinks to get most stuff done01:38
joacimand i'll have to learn something new01:39
joacimcant do that at my age01:39
joacimi dont know. never bothered to put in the effort =)01:39
abyxcosI'm not sure how you use a browser right now, but I have to type in my urls still.01:40
joacimit was just easier to build midori for my youtube ogling01:40
abyxcosAlso, xxxterm has back/forward refresh and go buttons. And clickable tabs.01:40
joacimsince those types of browsers all have the same interface, pretty much.01:40
diversejaeger: did you check out the video for the cooler?01:40
abyxcosI'm not sure what else you need to clicky in a browser.01:41
jaegerdiverse: no, is there something important in it?01:41
joacimi dont need clicky. it is just how i know to use something01:41
jaegerMy H60 is still fine at the moment so I didn't look too deeply01:42
diversejaeger: nothing important, just for interest01:42
abyxcosYou can also rebind new tab to ^t in the config... But it really acts like any other gtk application.01:42
jaegerI've got it open in a tab, just busy at the moment01:42
joacimnot from what I've felt when I used one01:47
joacimI'm not saying they're bad. Just sayign that I've not put in the effort to learn how to use a browser like that01:47
abyxcosI can only speak for xxxterm.01:47
joacimthe point isnt the spend two days on configuring it to kinda work a little bit like firefox or safari01:48
abyxcosWhich acts exactly like firefox, but you can use j/k to scroll in a page.01:48
joacimi rather make use of what such a browser is supposed to offer01:48
abyxcosWell, xxxterm just offers a wrapper around webkit that doesn't eat all your ram, and some good defaults. Then again, I don't think it bills itself as a vim webbrowser, like uzbl or something.01:49
joacimi was thinking more along the lines of uzbl and luakit01:49
joacimnot much of a gui, all keyboard01:50
abyxcosuzbl is a set of scripts to launch webkits. It's whacky.01:50
abyxcosYou need a tabbed window manager to use it properly.01:50
abyxcosI do recommend xxxterm though.01:53
abyxcosIt's ram usage seems to be lower or on par with firefox.01:54
diverseI think firefox is getting better at ram usage in later versions, but the build usage is still surprising to me.01:57
abyxcosIt's gotten better, but it still has random gui issues, and random ram issues.01:58
abyxcosBut you know, none of them are actually problems because the devs said so.01:58
joacimI'm fine with using firefox. It is just building it that is a pain =)01:59
abyxcosEh, a few days it was using a lot of gigs of ram. I think it was up past 6-8Gb, made me swap out and then hardlock.02:01
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abyxcosjoacim: Midori is gtk3 though, right?02:17
joacimboth, i think02:17
joacimthink you can choose what you want02:17
abyxcosEh, gtk2 is getting deprecated soon anyway, thanks to the tossers at redhat.02:18
abyxcosI'm slowly moving over to QT.02:18
diverseI call them "deadrat02:19
abyxcosThey do some cool things, then they turn around and pull crap like this, and/or hiring poetering.02:20
abyxcosI believe they're the ones pushing KVM development.02:22
abyxcosAlthough this was probably more relevant when Xen had that strange license and couldn't merge into mainline.02:22
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abyxcosI'm not sure who recommended mkinitramfs, but it looks pretty nice.02:29
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joacimI fixed the leds on my xbox 360 controller. all i had to do was read the documentation.11:54
joacimenable JOYSTICK_XPAD_LEDS, whch doesnt show up unless you enable LEDS_CLASS11:56
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abyxcosAnd now, time to figure out how to install a filesystem.13:41
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abyxcosWell, I must say, pkgfile creation is really easy.14:25
abyxcosAnd much nicer to debug than most of the rest.14:25
joacimit is nice when the script isnt much more complicated than running make && make install yourself =)14:34
abyxcosExcept for ./configure.14:34
abyxcoschecking kernel source directory... /usr/src/linux-3.11.tar.xz14:34
abyxcosWrong.14:34
abyxcosWhat is the tar flag for .xz by the way? It's not in the man page...14:37
jaegerJ14:40
abyxcosDo you know offhand the flag to pass arguments to ./configure? I'm not seeing it in pkgmk(8) or prt-get(8).14:42
jaegeryou just change the configure line in the Pkgfile14:42
abyxcosThat's about painful...14:43
abyxcosI thought you could pass cflags and such through?14:43
jaegeryou can set them in pkgmk.conf14:43
abyxcosDon't need these global, just one-shot at a package level.14:43
abyxcosI need to do a one-shot override of the kernel source location.14:44
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jaegerSet it in the Pkgfile before configure is run, then14:44
tilmanso you're asking what the configure flag is what specifying kernel source14:44
abyxcosNah, I want to do something like prt-get install spl --config-append=--with-linux=/usr/src/linux-3.1114:45
tilmandoesnt work like that14:45
abyxcosAlthough it seems like just using a /usr/src/linux symlink will do the trick.14:46
jaegermaking that symlink will break other obscure things, though14:46
abyxcosI would have sworn I saw something in the extended manual about passing cflags, I thought you could pass config arguments too.14:46
jaegerthough if you don't ever run into those obscure ones it's not a problem14:46
tilmanyo dawg14:46
tilmanuname -r14:46
tilman /lib/modules/foo/source14:46
abyxcosuname -r == 3.10.5, /usr/src/linux-3.11.14:46
abyxcos(I'm making a zfs port, with a zfs root, the kernel you're targetting will never be the kernel you're running.)14:47
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abyxcos(Chicken and egg problem with filesystems not in-tree :P)14:48
abyxcos(I also won't be making the /usr/src/linux symlink, I'll leave that up to the user after they compile their kernel to update that.)14:49
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: mpv: 0.1.5 -> 0.1.614:52
abyxcosIs there any clean way to make vim ignore /usr/share/vim/vimrc?15:21
abyxcosOr should I just blow that file away?15:22
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Romsterhttp://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/09/11/1912225/ssd-failure-temporarily-halts-linux-312-kernel-work?sdsrc=popbyskid probably old news but i just found that.16:04
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abyxcosWhat happend to his macbook? Tossed it out already?16:11
abyxcosMmh, spl was a bit of a weird pkgfile...16:11
Romsterdunno it's his desktop that ssd died in apparently16:12
abyxcosAhh.16:12
abyxcosAnd now we learn that even Linus doesn't back up properly.16:13
Romsteryeah he of all people should know better16:13
Romsterjust because it's a SSD does not mean it can never die.16:13
abyxcosWell, generally the failure case of SSD is ro.16:14
abyxcosI should really up and make a proper raid on this thing.16:15
abyxcosHey, I may be able to boot soon.16:18
abyxcosJust need to make a bootscript now.16:18
frinnstraid is no fucking backup16:26
abyxcosYou mean I shouldn't be using raid0 for my files?16:27
Romsteri know that. raid is only for high availability16:27
Romsterraid0 is 0 redundancy.16:27
Romsterinfact chances of losing data on raid0 increases with as many hard disks you have in that array.16:28
frinnsti dont care, just never ever say raid is equal in some form to backup in my presence again :)16:28
frinnstor i will have a stroke16:28
Romstergood maybe i'll get some peace -_-16:28
abyxcosHah, didn't want to imply raid was backup, but it does highly reduce your chances of having to care about failing drives.16:28
abyxcosEverything important is on gmail or github. Although I'm working to get a real backup solution going.16:29
frinnstraid0 of ssd's is probably no good at all since they dont seem to fail like regular disks16:29
abyxcosI assume you'll have your regular speedup, and your regular chance of a complete re-install on failure.16:31
joacimno backups at all in my home16:33
joacimi dont really have any important data anyways16:33
joacimso i dont care16:33
joacimshould backup the stuff in my documents folder i guess16:33
Romsterraid + multiple backups some off site is the only way to go16:34
joacimand the keychain file where all my passwords are16:34
abyxcosHow do you figure out the version of a linux tarball?16:34
joacimit is in the filename16:34
abyxcosI know there's a file in here somewhere with version info.16:34
frinnstMakefile has version info in it16:34
abyxcos*an untarred tarball.16:34
Romstermake help16:34
abyxcosAhh.16:34
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diverseargh I am having problems with the nvidia update19:44
diverseI even did the gl-select stuff19:44
diverseRomster: ping19:47
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nkrishi19:54
diversesigh, the recent nvidia update killed me. The kernel still thinks it uses modules from 319.32 while I am updated to 319.49...20:14
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diversenvm, I figured it out. I had to modprobe -r nvidia; modprobe nvidia. Maybe it might be a good idea to put that in the README22:27
frinnsti thought that would be obvious unless you reboot?22:39
diversepeople forget sometimes. Usually I don't want to have to reboot.22:44
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jaegerNo reboot necessary in this case but you always need to reload modules like that if the update contains them22:51
diverseI understand that. I just thought it might be a good idea to note it in the README22:52
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