IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2014-04-08

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diverseRomster: could you update your `bullet` port?04:54
diversethe latest efl needs the Physics enabled (because it's now bitchy) and requires >=2.8004:56
diversemeanwhile I am stuck in tty again since I had to remove efl in order to update.05:00
diversebtw, penguinfan, you there?05:31
diversenote to self: avoid 3.14.x kernels05:45
penguinfandiverse: yes I am here, whats up?06:22
diversepenguinfan: I had a question about the openvpn connection thru networkmanager. I was curious if you were able to connect to a foreign openvpn server and get a decent connection?06:26
penguinfanyes I did. you can try it with HMA service and see how it works06:27
penguinfando you know HMA?06:27
diverseno, I was just going to ask about that06:27
penguinfanthey operate a large list of openvpn servers you can connect and browse through06:28
diverseunfortunately I can't open that link right now. I'm checking out the site through my phone.06:31
penguinfanor check out (never used that, just discovered it)06:31
diverseI was just going to mention that also. I was using vpngate to access a openvpn server in Japan.06:32
diversehowever, even by manually connecting with `openvpn --config downloaded-from-vpngate.ovpn' it says it's initiated, but the connection just loops on forever without access.06:33
diverseso I thought a network manager might be the solution06:34
diverseI was able to use the same config file from vpngate on a windows 7 machine in my lan and it worked perfectly, so I thought something was up with my machine.06:36
penguinfanthe network manager will not really solve this for you, unless you have some configuration issue that the standard config of a network manager solves.06:36
penguinfanI am in Japan, so if you want I can try a configuration with vpngate this week06:37
penguinfanand send that across for you to test.06:37
penguinfanmaybe you need some additional configs or kernel modules, et.c.06:38
diversewell, I made sure to enable the general tap/tun device module06:38
penguinfansorry got to go back to my meeting now, lets talk later06:38
diversealright, ttyl06:38
diversenow I need to get my gui fixed06:39
z3braHi guys !06:39
diversesup z3bra06:40
z3braugrading my openssl to 1.0.1g06:40
z3brayou should do the same ;)06:40
z3braAny member of the crux tema here ?06:41
diversejaeger is probably asleep, maybe frinnst is around?06:43
diverseor tilman06:43
diverseI do agree that should be updated (plus it's essential for openvpn)06:44
z3braI successfully compiled it by just changing the version number in the Pkgfile06:45
z3braSo upgrading will not be a hard work06:45
diverseother than that, found any new software?06:49
diverseor anything interesting?06:54
diverse(trying to kill my boredom here)06:54
z3braI wrote a blog post about`obscure' tools I found06:55
diversethat one you did about a month ago?06:56
z3bra(Yet Another "Obscure Unix Tools" blog post)06:56
z3braah, yeah06:56
diverseI have already seen it and helped with some corrections as well.06:57
z3braI found a few good one on the 2f30 repos06:57
z3bralike catpoint06:57
diversewhat's that specifically?06:57
diverseconcatenation pointer?06:58
z3brapowerpoint for terminals :p06:58
diverseso you would use catpoint to show off your CLI skills? :P07:01
z3brahaha i don't know07:01
z3braBut I recently switched to markdown, so I like how it can be useful here :p07:02
diverserofl, there is a directory called "showoff" in the git tree, so it's definitely for that purpose!07:02
z3braThe thing I like is that it's a really simple tool, so you can make quick/clear presentations with this07:03
z3braeg: most of the vim presentations use a tool like that07:03
z3bra(but as a vim plugin)07:03
diverseI got to show this to my friend, he is going to love this.07:07
z3braI need to test it against the sources of my blog07:08
z3brato see the rendering07:08
z3bradamn, that gtk3 package is a footprint hell07:10
diversedon't install it, it will give you cancer07:11
z3braI tried to install it for the sake of my PDF viewer of choice: zathura07:11
diverseprobably already got tumors from using it07:11
z3bra(which is a dependency hell after all)07:12
diversezathura is awesome, I just wish it didn't ignorantly move away from gtk2, otherwise I would be using it by now07:13
z3brait is, indeed07:13
z3brawhat do you use then ?07:13
diversetake a guess07:13
z3bramupdf ?07:14
diverseyou got it07:14
diversealthough I don't entirely like it07:15
z3brait's not even half as good :/07:15
z3branot autoreload07:15
z3braslow rendering07:15
z3bra3 times less features07:15
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diverseI would like to use zathura, but I will not tolerate gtk3 apps07:17
z3brathe problem is: gtk2 is slightly put apart07:19
diversethere is nothing really wrong with it though07:21
diverseit's much better than the piece of garbage gtk3 is. Either that, move to qt or elementary, preferably the latter.07:24
z3bra> qt07:24
z3braanyway, I'll probably take a look at the Archlinux PKGBUILD for zathura07:25
z3brathe main one is still built against gtk207:26
diverseI used to bleh about qt and been a total gtk guy in the past but I have gotten over it now due to the current situations going on07:26
z3brathe heaviness of Qt has always scare me07:28
diverseOf course, I'm not telling you to use qt, I'm just stating my postion.07:33
diverseit would be nicely if more apps took advantage of elementary though07:35
diversebut I don't see it getting popular, so it will remain in the niche zone07:36
z3branever heard of elementary before07:38
diverseit's Enlightenment's gui toolkit07:38
z3braAh okay07:38
cruxbot[core.git/3.0]: [notify] openssl: update to 1.0.1g07:39
diversez3bra: ^look at that07:39
z3brahere we are07:39
z3brathe problem is07:40
z3brasomeone could have leaked the crux server07:40
z3braand updated a FAKE Pkgfile07:40
z3brabut no :)07:41
z3brawe're good07:41
diverseright now I need Romster to update his `bullet` port so I can trying compiling the fussy efl07:43
z3brawhat's that soft ?07:43
diverseEFL stands Enlightenment Foundation Libraries, the core libs to build e18 currently07:44
diverseand to build the Elementary toolkit07:45
z3braConvinced enlightenment user I see ^^07:45
z3bra"Using vim as C/C++ IDE"07:45
z3braI hate those titles07:45
diverseWell the thing I like about E is that it's compositor is unmatched on X11 until Wayland becomes popular07:46
z3braOr maybe I'm just hatin'07:46
z3brawhat does it do that is so different from compiz/compton/cairo ?07:46
diversemuch faster and smoother framerates and no video tearing07:49
diversebut I am probably baised, I haven't tried cairo07:50
xveei read that they're working on e1907:50
xveesuppose to release in a couple months07:50
z3braI personally use xcompmgr (compton is a pain to package). But the only use I make of it is background transparency of my status bar07:50
diversexvee: yep, it's in current beta07:51
z3branever had a problem with it though. It's light, fast and I don't experience any tearing07:51
dxtrWouldn't it be cool if to have an email-to-sms-thing on the phone?07:51
dxtrYou email it "send 'foo' to X" and it's like WOOOOSH07:51
z3braor the opposite07:51
dxtrIt goes both ways07:51
z3braYou need a remote server07:51
z3braand another phone contract07:52
dxtrno I don't07:52
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z3brayou'd want to do that directly on the phone ?07:52
z3braI mean, `hacking' your SMS app ?07:52
dxtrUhm... no07:53
z3brahow would you want to do that then07:53
dxtrz3bra: You do realize you can read and send text messages without "hacking" the SMS app, right?07:53
dxtrAnd you can also replace the SMS app07:53
z3brayeah sure07:53
z3brabut you then need to write a new SMS app, that will handle mails07:54
z3braquite the same as hacking an already existing app :)07:54
dxtrNot at all07:54
dxtrAnd no, I wouldn't have to write an SMS app07:54
dxtrRead email -> Parse -> Tell the OS to send it07:54
diverseI'm not doing anything with my phone, just so you know. Since I'm in tty right now, it's my only why to web browser, unless I go to another machine.07:55
xveewhy are you in tty diverse?07:55
xveebuilding something i assume?07:56
diverseit's because having efl 1.8.6 prevents efl 1.9.2 from building, it requires that I remove it07:56
diverseand there goes my gui07:56
diverseand with 1.9.2, it gave me warnings of "you better have this enabled or else!!!" messages07:58
diversestuff which I had disabled previously07:59
xveee18 looks super light. i was thinking of giving it a try on my other machine but i haven't gotten around to switching out dwm yet08:00
diversealthough I found it very strange that it also said I need to enable pulseaudio support, I hope that's a joke though.08:00
diversexvee: nah, stick with what you love08:00
xveemy main machine is dwm. im not changing that out. the other machine is a play thing though08:01
diversealright, go nuts then08:01
xveeusually when i go nuts, everything breaks lol08:01
diversethat's the point08:01
diverseyou break it, you fix it08:02
xveeyea. its ubuntu though. its easy to reinstall08:02
xveehows your day so far?08:03
diversemostly good. I got to watch yesterday's Cosmos. Always entertaining to watch Neil show his science.08:04
xveeoh yes.08:04
xveei love astromomy08:05
xveemy old community college had one of the best planitariums in california suprisingly08:05
diversewhich one was that?08:06
xveeglendale community college08:07
xveethe planetarium had recaro racing seats for chairs08:07
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diversez3bra: btw, what was that phone stuff you were mentioning about?08:08
xveeand they reclined all the way back so you'd essentially have a bed. the professor was super cool too. we brought a playstation and were allowed to play games08:08
z3branothing, that's what dxtr was talking about08:08
z3brasending/receiving SMS and mails through the same app08:09
diversexvee: did you sleep there?08:09
xveeonce. i was sick and the professor asked if i wanted to stay in and take a nap. she put up the stars and closed the room. super dark minus the stars/ pre programing journey through our galaxy. best sleep i've ever had08:11
diversewatching the star show put you to sleep?08:12
xveeyes because i've seen the show a few times lol08:12
xveethe seats are super comfortable too. its really hard not to fall asleep08:12
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diverseI wonder if I should ditch e18 for 2bwm? :P08:20
diverseI was waiting for that response08:21
diverseThe downside to Enlightenment is that configuration is store in binary (but you can edit it out with a tool they provide) so after upgrade, the configuration could get corrupt, so it would be just faster to create a new one.08:24
z3braAh yeah I see :/08:24
z3brawell, 2bwm require that you recompile the WM after each configuration08:25
prologicwtf is wrong with developers08:25
prologicwhy is a binary file all of a sudden a good idea for configuration08:26
prologicgeez chrsit08:26
prologicthis makes me very very sad08:26
diversedon't ask me08:26
prologicand depressed08:26
prologicseriously WTF08:26
prologicI'm a software engineer of 15 years08:26
prologicbinary configuration files is NEVER a good idea08:26
prologicthere is just no valid f'n use case08:26
z3brastoring data structures ?08:26
prologicXML, JSON, INI, anything but some stupid inconsistent incompatible, non-interchacning binary format08:27
prologicI'd love to know what these devs are smoing08:27
prologicif storing data structures is the excuse08:27
diverseprologic: join the #e channel and ask08:27
prologicgood lord08:27
prologicever heard of JSON or any other common data strutures08:27
prologicI'm afraid of the answer08:27
prologicit'll end in a flame war08:27
z3braThe only point I see for binary config, is that it's easier to store08:27
diverseI like YAML for configuration instead08:27
prologicbetween me and them08:27
prologicno that's a fallacy too08:28
prologicit's not easier to store08:28
prologicI mean it's no easier08:28
prologicand no harder08:28
prologicbinary formats in fact buy you less08:28
prologiclike i said08:28
z3brawrite (config, sizeof(config), file);08:28
prologicno interchance08:28
prologicno consistency08:28
prologicno standaization08:28
prologicimpossible to edit without tools that support it08:28
prologiclist goes on08:28
z3branwe, yeah we know. port has been updated08:28
z3brayeah :/08:28
xveealright gentlemen, im heading to bed. goo dnight08:28
diverseprologic: please, if you could, go to #e and convince the developers08:29
prologicI don't mean to get so angro08:29
prologicbut seriously08:29
z3bragood night08:29
prologicthis drives me f'n crazy08:29
prologicthe developer community lately seems liekt ehy're all smoking crack08:29
nwez3bra: nice08:29
prologicand not the godo kind08:29
diversexvee: have a good one08:29
prologicdiverse, I'm afraid of one software enginerr that's developer contributed to elnightenment will not hold weight :/08:29
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Romsterdiverse, done08:32
diverseprologic: Well, I have been getting tired of the binary configuration getting corrupted every once and a while. And how each update becomes slightly more painful to maintain and keep the way I want it. Essentially they are scaring me into enabling Gstreamer, Fribidi, E Physics Engine, and Pulse Audio (and the Pulse Audio is starting to send me red flag already) because they "haven't tested it without them" so08:33
diverse"face the consequences"08:33
diverseRomster: thanks man08:34
prologicI hear you08:35
prologicthe same goes with systemd's binary logging file format08:35
prologicthere's just no excuse for this kind of nonense08:35
prologicI cannot think of a single valid use-case08:35
diverseMaybe I should take a step back and rethink about this.08:37
Romsterwhat is wrong with ascii unicode log08:39
Romsteri could rant all night and then some on all the stupid crap i've come across prologic and i think i have in the past -_-08:39
Romsterseems i package the good stuff diverse you seem to use like half my repo lol. i need to get on to versionsort and get my Pkgfiles more current.08:40
diverseRomster: like I said, your repo is essentially `contrib2`08:41
Romsterclose to it08:41
Romsterit's just most the stuff in my repo is not well tested.08:41
Romsterexcept a few ports08:42
diverseWell I appreciate that you have the ports I need available, I'm happy about that. If there was a problem, I would report to you like how I always do.08:44
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diverseRight now, I'm trying to reconsider about my choice to stay with Enlightenment based on what I have seen and experience and the stuff prologic said about binary configs.08:47
Romsterif you ask me it seems the majority of software is doing something nasty.08:48
Romsterone thing or another.08:48
Romsterbinary configs just how much information do they plan to pack in that file?08:49
diverseprobably tons, since they "plan on adding more features"08:50
prologicRomster, no it's a trend08:53
prologica cultural change08:53
prologicit'll bite everyone in the ass (if not already)08:53
prologicand it'll change back08:53
Romsterand then change the format later therey by breaking earlier binary configs08:53
prologicwe keep doing this in IT08:53
prologicand Software08:53
prologicfact of life :(08:53
prologicLook at the Cloud08:53
prologicit's just a gloried Mainframe08:53
prologicthere are only two things you need to consider diverse08:54
Romsteri contempated bianry configs for a project a very long time ago, my conclusion messy unstable and jsut too awkward to maintain, there are better formats for configs.08:54
prologicsimplicity and ease of use/reach08:54
prologicsimple vs. complex08:54
prologichard vs. easy08:54
prologicso often in IT and Software we forgot both of these things08:54
prologicand makes things complex (intertwined)08:54
prologicand hard (to use or reach)08:55
Romsterthis whole "cloud" talk is just dumb it's just storage in a remote location. i'm too scared to even use this so called cloud, data security, privacy, reliability etc.08:55
prologicif you haven't seen this video yet08:56
prologicI highly reocmmend you do (all of you)08:56
prologicby the Clojure Developer08:56
Romsterhonestly the systemd binary this and that, firmware blobs, gtk3 themes keep getting broken... it's like the entire god damn free software foundation is going comerical08:57
prologicit is08:57
prologicbecause commercial companies are seeing value in it08:57
Romsterdiverse, pekwm is light and will install in a minute or two.08:57
prologicwhich is a good and bad thing at the same time08:57
prologicgood will come of it08:57
prologicbut we have to churn through the bad to get to it08:57
prologicit's all very frustrating to watch08:58
prologicbut only the best will survive08:58
diverseRomster: for now I guess pekwm will do08:58
diverseIgnorantGuru (the guy who made SpaceFM) was saying how redhat is controlled by their biggest consumer, the US military, which is why redhat is pulling all of this shit09:00
frinnst*BM14-001 - Blixtmeddelande fr�n CERT-SE -  S�rbarhet i OpenSSL 1.0.1 *09:00
diversewhich isn't too much of a surprise, considering the NSA shit going on09:00
frinnstwow, you rarely see these warnings from cert.se09:00
Romsterdiverse, the default theme is horrible but you can change that if need be. and i got rid of sloppy focus.09:00
Romsterwish there was sloppy focus based on what i was looking at.09:01
Romsterand not my mouse09:01
Romsterprologic, but this crap is killing the diversity and good practices.09:02
prologicyes it is I agree09:03
prologicbut diversity will continue as long as there are enough people that care09:03
Romsteri just hope that is the case09:03
prologicunfortunately capitalism in software adn it generally means things are not architected in simple and easy ways, often reuse is thrown out the windows for the sake of profitability and quality is left behind for "hot" / "cool" features (bells 'n whistles) -- in other words whatever makes money09:05
prologicYou can have it Fast, Good or Cheap -- but not all three. Pick two.09:06
RomsterGood and Cheap, i'm never for fast.09:09
diverseI'm with Romster on that09:10
prologicGood and Cheap == at the expensive of Fast09:10
prologicThat's why Open Source is the way it is09:10
prologicIt _can_ be Good and Cheap (FREE as in Beer)09:10
prologicbut it ain't happenning Fast09:10
prologicSo Commercial companies see this "Good and Cheap" and want to "Cash" in on the gold09:10
prologicproblem is they forget that OSS is never done on a timed schedule09:11
prologicthe mantra "it'll be ready when it's ready"09:11
Romsterwe all know companies always mess up09:11
prologicrings a bell09:11
prologicit's not that they mess up09:11
prologicthey want to make money09:11
prologicyou need things fast and cheap in order to do that09:12
prologicbut not necessarily good09:12
prologicdepends who you work for09:12
Romsterthe only ones that really work well are those that have a paid version and a free version and the majority of the paid version code fixes get sent back to the free branch09:12
prologicthat's why we try to buidl all these abstractions09:12
prologicand often makes things more complex as a result09:12
prologicin an effort to make things fast09:12
prologicbut maintain cheap and good09:12
prologicbut you can't have all three09:12
Romsteri don't want all 3 :D09:16
diverseI'm beginning to think that since Samsung funds the Enlightenment project, the primary goal is to get it working for mobile devices, so developing on a desktop serves as a disguise for their real work, hense binary configs.09:20
prologic-but- I still don't see the use-case09:21
prologicmobile devices these days have huge amounts of ram, storage and plenty of cpu grunt09:21
prologicQuad Core, 2GB RAM, 64GB+ storage09:21
prologicno excuse for incompatible, inconsistent, non-interchangeable binary formats for things as simple (should be) as configuration or log files09:22
Romsterand lest not forget the /cloud/09:24
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prologicthere we go12:52
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Romsteroh i've seen and in there dns pool before prologic13:40
Romsterwhen they were under ddos13:40
prologicyes so have i13:42
jaegerthat's still resolution, though13:43
Romsterguess they were hoping to get some to ddos themself13:44
saptechgreetings all13:52
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buskWhy doesn't CRUX use a init system, which initializes system services in parallel by default?14:22
jaegerProbably because sysvinit was the KISS choice14:36
tilmanupgrading openssl isn't enough. at the very least you need to re-generate your SSL keys and certs14:40
jaegertilman: assuming that your keys/certs were compromised before the update? Or is there some other risk?14:44
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tilmanjaeger: the former.14:50
tilmanjaeger: i'd also change all passwords that $server_process has access to14:50
tilmanworst bug ever?14:51
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: ck4up: update to 1.314:51
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: cups-filters: update to 1.0.5214:51
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: mailx: update to 14.6.414:51
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: mupdf: update to 1.4rc114:51
buskI see, thanks!14:51
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Romsteranyone could of got the private cert/keys and no way of knowing who due to no logs of the intrusion.14:56
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Romsterfrom what i read.14:57
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cruxbot[xorg.git/3.0]: xorg-xtrans: update to 1.3.415:29
diversewait, we had an intrusion?15:29
frinnstno, openssl bug15:33
frinnstno, its worse :)15:33
frinnstby exploiting it you could get private certs15:34
diverseis this bug in the newest version?15:35
diverseoh nvm15:37
diversethat's why you had to regenerate new keys because the old ones have the exploit15:37
diversedamn you heartbleed bug!15:42
tilmanyou could get anything that was in $server_process' memory15:43
diverseoh my goodness15:43
juea good summary is here ->
tilmandiverse: and no, not correct. certs don't have any exploits15:44
diversejue: thanks15:45
diversetilman: thanks for confirming that15:45
tilman is *STILL* vulnerable15:46
tilmanholy fucking balls15:46
tilmanseppuku time15:46
diverseyeah, self-suicide, talk about irony15:47
tilmanjue: have you verified the gpg signature of the new openssl tarball?15:47
jueno, only checked the md5sum15:48
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diverseman, bug introduced in Dec 2011 and just fixed recently, talk about a total heartbleed15:55
tilmanjue: the md5sum matches15:56
tilman(i mean... the copy i just downloaded matches all sets of signatures) ;)15:56
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diverseSo considering how widespread this issue is, we should probably change all of our online account passwords?16:15
tilmanmaybe check the date on their certs first16:22
tilmanor just change them now and again in a week, and again in a week after that etc ;>16:23
diverseoh man...16:25
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: mupdf: fix source URL16:40
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nlightnfotishello is there a particular reason bin86 is a core port?19:44
jaegerlilo requires it19:48
nlightnfotisjaeger, Oh I see. So if I want to drop lilo and only keep grub I can also drop bin86 aye?19:49
nlightnfotisThanks jaeger :)19:49
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BitPuffinis there any support for multiarch in crux?19:59
frinnst32 and 64bit, yes20:01
frinnstarm too20:01
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jaegerofficially 64-bit with 32-bit multilib support. there's not an official x86 release anymore20:03
tilmanwhich mailing lists do i read for more information about heartbleed?20:04
tilmani want to maintain the apocalyptic feeling20:04
frinnstoss-sec myself20:04
frinnstwe dont qualify for the distros mailinglist :/20:05
frinnsttoo much work to qualify and i doubt we'd really make use of it20:06
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tilmandoes anyone understand openssl's versioning scheme?20:10
tilmanconfused 1.0.0x with 1.0.1y20:11
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BitPuffinjaeger: ah well that's exactly what I want anyway20:54
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: getmail: 4.44.0 -> 4.46.021:09
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: qemu: 1.7.0 -> 1.7.121:11
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: qemu-all: 1.7.0 -> 1.7.121:43
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: syslog-ng: libjson in footprint is optional22:31
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timcowchip/usr/bin/viewnior: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory22:39
timcowchipI can't look at naked pictures of Emilia Clarke when getting ready to watch Game of Thrones22:40
timcowchipI think the latest exiv2 update broke viewnoir22:41
jaegerdid the version number on the .so file change?22:42
jaegerprobably just need to rebuild viewnoir22:42
timcowchipalready tried rebuilding viewnoir22:43
jaegeris it hardcoded to look for that file?22:45
timcowchipdon't know, the only dep is gtk22:47
jaegerwell, does exist?22:47
timcowchip whereis  libexiv222:48
timcowchiplibexiv2: /usr/lib/ /usr/lib/libexiv2.a /usr/lib/libexiv2.la22:48
timcowchipI don't see
timcowchipdoes the ".12" make a difference22:51
jaegerwell, if viewnoir is linked against it, yeah22:52
Romstertimcowchip, prt-get update -fr `revdep`22:56
Romsterprt-get fsearch libexiv2.so22:57
Romsteranything that depends on exiv2 probably needs a rebuild22:57
Romsterbbl work22:58
nogagplztimcowchip what stuff did you want changed in the vice pkgfile23:08
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timcowchipnogagplz I made my own vice port23:16
timcowchipwith patches for fonts and 64bit23:16
timcowchipinstead of using a Makefile23:17
nogagplzah ok, I'll still add your changes when I get a chance if you don't mind23:19
timcowchipyour makefile has lines referring to "/home/neville/vice-2.4/missing"23:20
nogagplzhmm I've never noticed....23:21
timcowchipmaybe you should change /home/neville to ~/23:21
timcowchipthe patches I used came from salix and feel frre to use them23:22
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: libzip: Updated .md5sum23:55
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