IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2014-04-09

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diversez3bra: found a gtk2 zathura?06:41
z3bralooks like 0.2.5 can be compiled against gtk206:43
z3bra(PKGBUILD for zathura-gtk2 sue this version)06:44
diverseI guess we would be fine with that version? It's got patches and stuff right?06:49
z3braidk, I did not dig any further06:49
z3braI'll try to compile and install it right away06:49
diverseno pressure :)06:50
z3braI was meant to do this yesterday, but something else caught my attention :p06:51
z3brammmh, you can't use girara 0.2.006:59
z3brathey dropped gtk2 support06:59
diversewhich means you need to use 0.1.907:00
z3braI did07:01
z3brait compiled successfully :)07:01
z3braI now have zathura installed \รด/07:01
diverses/?/o/07:01
z3brathat's a 'o' with ^^07:02
z3bra'^'07:02
diverseI know, I thought I fix it for you07:02
diverse\o/07:03
z3brawell, now I need some plugins07:03
diversewell there is poppler, mupdf, djvu, ps, and cb plugins.07:04
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diverseif poppler has too many dependencies, probably use the mupdf plugin instead07:04
z3brait depends on poppler only07:05
z3brawhich does not depends on so many things :)07:05
z3bra(cairo, maybe)07:05
diverselet me check07:06
diverseyeah cairo and lcms207:06
z3braanyway, that's many softwares for installing zathura though :/07:08
diversebut based on what I see from here you have the choice between poppler or mupdf for pdf rendering: http://pwmt.org/projects/zathura/plugins/07:09
z3brayep that's right07:09
z3braThey use a plugin system07:10
z3braso that zathura is able to render ONLY what you need07:10
diversecorrect07:10
diverseor what you perfer in this case, poppler or mupdf ;)07:10
z3brasure ^^07:10
diverseit's a shame they got rid of gtk2 though, maybe somebody could fork the gtk2 version and continue supporting it07:11
z3brathere is no more support for gtk2 :/07:12
z3braso I totally understand why they dropped support07:12
diverseoh, the gtk2 developers recently stopped patching up gtk2 recently?07:13
z3braThat's what I read somewhere07:15
z3braI might be wrong07:15
z3bra(i'd rather be)07:15
nwegood morning!07:15
nwedoes someone know a good remotedesktop application for linux?07:16
z3bravnc07:16
diverseor xrdp07:16
z3bra(I'm using it atm)07:16
nwethanks I will try xrdp07:16
diversenwe: try both07:16
z3braIT WORKS!07:18
z3braAh :D07:18
z3bradiverse, http://crux.z3bra.org/ports/07:20
diversez3bra: the latest patch for gtk2 is 2.24.23 release on March 18. Did the article say that will be the last one?07:20
z3braI published the ports07:20
diversealright, I will check them out07:20
z3bradiverse, no I did not read that07:20
z3braI might be wrong then07:20
diverseoh what's this? 0.2.7? They added back gtk2?07:23
z3brano07:23
z3brazathura still handle GTK207:23
z3brabut girara, their toolkit, has drop GTK2 support with 0.2.007:24
diversegotcha07:24
diversethat's why you were all giddy because 0.1.9 still worked with the latest zathura07:25
z3brayeah :D07:25
diversewhen did 0.2.7 came out?07:27
z3bra2014/02/1707:27
diversefunny how that is the same date listed for 0.2.6 on their site: http://pwmt.org/projects/zathura-pdf-mupdf/download/07:29
diverse:P07:29
diverseoh wait...07:29
z3bramupdf :p07:29
diverseyep, wrong one07:29
z3bra^^07:29
diversebtw, could you make a port for the mupdf version?07:30
z3brayeah gimme a secd07:31
z3braI'm creating a port for -ps07:32
diverseno problem07:32
z3brammmh07:34
z3brait does not build against the mupdf version of [opt] port07:35
z3brabecause not compiled with -fPIC07:35
diversehmm07:35
diverseI wonder if it's because mupdf is too new? It's 1.4rc107:37
z3brain the ports ?07:37
diverseyeah07:37
z3braI have 1.3 listed07:37
diverseoh, port -u then :P07:38
diversehmm, but it doesn't work for 1.3, strange07:38
z3brayea07:38
z3braarchlinux version of mupdf is effectively built with -fPIC07:40
diversewhat does that flag do?07:40
z3braI don't know :p07:40
diversejue is the maintainer, might want to ask him about this problem07:41
diversein the meantime, if you are willing, work on the other plugins :)07:42
z3braOkay, basically, -fPIC is meant to provide a better dynamic linking07:43
z3bra(PIC = position-independent code)07:43
diverseah, neat07:43
z3braThe problem is that it render the code usable ONLY on some architectures07:44
z3bra"Position-independent code requires special support, and therefore works only on certain machines.07:44
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z3bra"07:44
diverseah07:44
diverseso intel would be one of those07:44
diversemaybe ARM too07:45
z3braidk07:45
z3braokay, I'm building mupdf with -fPIc07:46
z3bralet's see how it goes then07:46
diverseawesome07:46
z3braah07:48
z3brathe problem07:48
diversewhat's the verdict?07:49
z3braopt/mupdf does not install any library ^^07:49
diverse...rofl07:49
z3braso we need either to contact jue to ask him to include it, or create mupdf-lib package07:50
diverseso it just needs a .so available07:50
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diverseyeah07:50
z3branot a .so07:50
diversehmm?07:50
z3braeg, zathura-pdf-mupdf require mupdf/xps.h07:50
z3braThe problem is not only about linking, but also with headers07:51
diversehmm, but I thought the libs and headers provided the .so which allows for linkage and faster compiling, but then different projects work differently07:52
z3bra.so files are only for linking07:54
z3brawell, that's what I think, though07:54
z3braxD07:54
z3braI'm in doubt now07:54
diverselike I said07:54
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diversesounds like the zathura-pdf-mupdf plugin is statically compiled07:56
z3braidk07:56
z3brahah, didn' notice:07:57
z3brahttp://crux.nu/portdb/?a=search&q=zathura07:57
z3braOne is version 0.1.1, and the other returns 404 though07:57
diverseactually that other one seems to just download the file instead and not return 404 for me07:59
z3braah, right08:00
z3brahttp://prt.juef.tk/08:00
z3brathis version is built against gtk3 though08:01
z3braI'd probably better rename my ports08:02
z3brato -gtk208:02
diverseyou could08:02
RomsterPIC should be on everything now08:12
Romsterz3bra, add -fPIC to your CFLAGS for that port08:12
Romsteror there might be a configure flag for --with-pic08:13
z3braThanks for the hint08:13
z3braYeah I effectively did that08:13
z3brabut the port does not install the header files for mupdf08:14
Romstersometimes it's needed on CXXFLAGS08:14
z3braso that's pointless in my case08:14
Romsterdepending if its C or C++08:14
z3brayeah I added both08:14
Romsterjues port of mupdf?08:15
z3brayep08:15
Romsterrm -r $PKG/usr/{include,lib,share}08:15
Romsterremove include off that list08:15
z3bradidn't notic :p08:16
Romsterheck why is lib even there08:16
Romsteri hate projects that only use make files when they ought to use autotools08:18
Romsterto configure08:18
z3braI like plain old makefiles :)08:20
diverseRomster: btw, since you and z3bra have the same youtube-dl port and I use yours, maybe it's time to put that in contrib? It's generally useful.08:23
Romsteri was thinking that08:23
Romsteri use it myself08:23
z3braAh, didn't notice08:24
Romsteri tend ot do a search on ports db before making a port. but what usually happens they arn't done to my liking so i then copy and edit. else it don't exist and i make it.08:25
Romsterafter i finish eating i'll move it to contrib08:25
diversesounds good08:25
diversez3bra: d(^-^)b08:26
z3branice :)08:27
z3brathat damn texlive...08:27
z3bracan't install08:27
z3bracan't get the error08:27
z3bra"Write failed"08:27
diversez3bra: wait for Romster to come back08:28
Romsterhmm i started working on a new version of that yesterday but i have it compiled at http://crux.ster.so/packages/3.0/texlive%2320120701-2.pkg.tar.gz08:29
Romsteryour probably out of space -_-08:29
Romsterit is a huge ass port08:30
z3braI think so08:30
Romster1.7GB08:30
z3bramy tmpfs is 1.9Gb08:30
diversez3bra: what your `df -h` output08:30
Romster1.9GB tmpfs wont be enough08:30
z3braah08:30
Romstersouce + compiled + crate the archive08:30
Romstercreate*08:31
diversez3bra: you compile to your ram?08:31
Romster4GB should be more than enough. i use 10GB on my tmpfs08:31
Romsterbecause of the bigger ports like firefox08:31
z3bradiverse, yes08:31
Romsteri do too08:31
z3braRomster, yeah sure. I usually use only light packages08:32
z3braSo I never ran into this problem before ^^08:32
Romsterand remove -pipe off your CFLAGS CXXFLAGS it's pointless when it's in tmpfs already08:32
z3bragood hint08:32
diversewhat does -pipe do?08:33
RomsterUse pipes rather than temporary files for communication between the various stages of compilation.08:33
Romsterin tmpfs it's faster without -pipe08:34
z3braI'll just use you port08:35
z3braA bit lazy to compile it ^^'08:35
diversethat's why Romster provides the packages08:35
z3braI should do the same08:36
z3brabut I usually compile really ligth packages08:38
z3braSo that'd be pointless :p08:38
Romsteri only do it with the big time consuming ones.08:40
z3braindeed08:41
diverseI'm thinking of doing the tmpfs route. It would definitely save cycles on my ssd08:43
dxtrRomster: gcc is NOT faster with tmpfs without -pipe08:45
diverseoh?08:45
dxtrAccessing files (Whether they reside in memory or not) is still more overhead than simply accessing that memory08:45
dxtrAnd, frankly, it's still using the disk with -pipe when it's linking08:46
Romsterdxtr, except it's already in memory with a tmpfs08:46
RomsterPKGMK_WORK_DIR="/usr/ports/work/$name"08:48
Romstertmpfs on /usr/ports/work type tmpfs (rw,relatime,size=8388608k,uid=30,gid=30)08:48
Romstergranted the difference is minuscule the last time i tested with and without.08:49
Romsterand alot of projects force -pipe as default.08:49
dxtrYou have no idea how things such as filesystems work, right?08:50
dxtrwhen you use tmpfs you STILL have to go through the filesystem layer08:50
dxtrThen the filesystem happens to be mapped in memory. Which is equivalent to simply accessing that memory directly (In which case you will skip the overhead of the filesystem)08:51
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: youtube-dl, Romster -> contrib08:51
dxtrAnd then we could go even deeper. Are you sure gcc is *actually* accessing the disk without -pipe?08:52
dxtrI mean, are you *REALLY* sure?08:52
dxtrThe files might end up in cache. Which makes that tmpfs point even more moot08:52
Romsteri tried with and without and granted it was a long time ago it was a few seconds faster without -pipe in tmpfs08:53
Romsteri'm not sure but i tested it on the same source a couple of times so disk caches would be the same on both builds.08:54
dxtrLemme guess: Comple project with -pipe, done, compile project without -pipe?08:54
dxtrEffectively putting everything in cache`08:54
dxtr?08:54
Romsterpretty much08:54
diverse:/08:54
Romsterbut i tested like 5 consective compiles and i interleaved with -pipe and without pipe08:54
Romsterso i guess my method was still flawed.08:55
dxtrIf you had flushed the cache between each run and collected some more data (why is it faster? how is it faster?) I'd have believed you08:55
dxtrBut I still refuse to believe that tmpfs is *actually* faster than accessing memory directly08:56
teK__I doubt that file on a tmpfs are subject to additional (file system) caching08:56
Romsterbesides i can do make -j20 over distcc.08:57
Romsteri need more boxes so i can up that -_-08:57
diversedang08:57
diverse-j20 is still impressive Romster08:57
Romsterit is08:57
Romsterand i spent time improving the times. but i haven't in awhile now tried to reoptimise that.08:58
Romsterover gigabit lan too08:58
dxtrteK__: Maybe, maybe not. I'm not particularly educated in tmpfs, but my point still stands. Going through the filesystem layer to access a file mapped to memory is still slower than accessing memory directly08:58
dxtr:p08:58
dxtrRomster: funroll-loops.org08:59
dxtrerr08:59
dxtrhttp://funroll-loops.info/08:59
dxtrWHY IS IT .INFO!?08:59
Romsterguess i need to give up on making any sort of statements anymore.08:59
teK__dxtr: what would be the point of doing that..09:00
Romsteri dunno and i've been there before.09:00
dxtrteK__: What would be the point of what?09:00
dxtrRomster: Sigh.. Point being; your -j20 isn't particularly cool :p09:00
RomsterteK__, could you fix your bridge-utils it's currently broken09:01
Romsterdxtr, what do you provide that is cool?09:01
Romsteri know -j20 is childs play it's not much but it's better than -j409:01
diversebetter than my -j909:02
Romsterand i do realise it's not 20 times faster.09:02
Romsterand someoen with a servef cpu could easily beat my times.09:02
dxtrCode. Trying to measure dicks with pseudooptimizations is kinda... What I did when I was 14 and ran Gentoo09:02
Romsterthe fact i stress test stuff and find bugs get them reported is cool.09:02
diverseyeah Romster is really thorough about his stuff09:03
dxtrIf we're doing this: At work we run -j12809:03
dxtrBam. You lose.09:03
teK__Romster: yes if you have a peek at a recent footprint mismatch in mesa ;>09:03
Romsterwell i'm at home09:03
Romsterandi do not have access to that level else i would do that.09:04
teK__dxtr: the point of caching files in RAM that are already in RAM (via tmpfs)09:04
Romsteri tested mesa on 3.0 and 3.1 a few weeks ago teK__09:04
Romstertakes another look09:04
teK__I can paste it somewhere, it was on a server with relatively few xorg ports installed09:04
Romsterdxtr, since when offering a bit of adice about speed ups that i've measured myself. turn in to a bloody flame war.09:06
dxtrteK__: I'm not too well educated on tmpfs or the internals of Linux so I don't know. I was still trying to make the point that accessing the memory through the filesystem layer can't be faster than accessing the memory directly09:06
RomsterteK__, i'll build it see if i can reproduce it.09:06
dxtrRomster: It's not a flamewar09:06
dxtrI was just pointing out that no dicks got hard by your statement :p09:07
teK__dxtr: yes but tmpfs guarantees that the files are in RAM while this won't hold for usual file systems09:07
dxtrteK__: That wasn't the point. We were discussing -pipe (Putting files in memory) vs no -pipe + tmpfs09:08
dxtrI argued that I don't believe that no -pipe + tmpfs has to be slower (Not by a lot, obviously)09:08
Romsterdxtr, more like your stating you got better hardware than me and looks like you do at /work/09:08
dxtrRomster: I have pretty awful hardware at home09:08
diversedxtr: Romster wasn't doing any comparisons, he was just pointing out that he got his result from using tmpfs without -pipe with his setup like that a long time09:09
dxtrI have a mid-2010 macbook pro, a cubox, a mips64 router, a n40l as a file server and a few raspberries09:09
diverse*long time ago09:09
Romstermaybe my testing methods were not that great but i got actual speed improvement's. in my own tests.09:10
dxtrdiverse: He said "This is faster" (A statement) and I said "No"09:10
Romsterprove it with results.09:10
Romsterelse your statement is invalid.09:10
dxtrI don't have any box with more than 512MB ram that runs Linux09:11
Romsteri can't find my results it's back in the log way too far back now. i'd have to redo the test again.09:11
dxtrHey, don't get me wrong. It'd be interesting if one did an *actual* test of it. And then it would be even more interesting if tmpfs, indeed, was faster. Must be something I'm missing then09:11
dxtrAs I've said, I'm not particularly educated in Linux (I mainly use OSX and BSD)09:12
Romsterand you make fun of my 5 cluster distcc node with 3GB minimum per a machine.09:12
Romsteri'm done09:12
dxtrI didn't make fun of your "cluster"09:13
dxtrAgain; i only said that no dicks got hard09:13
frinnst.. dat backlog09:13
Romsterdxtr, okay i'm just gonna drop the subject it's pointless banter09:14
frinnstforwarded you a cve for elfutils, romster09:14
frinnstjust a "fyi"09:14
Romsterfrinnst, ta i'll look right into it.09:14
diverseI can't help but feel like I hit some nerves with stating about my ram amount awhile ago...09:15
Romsteri honestly don't care i never asked dxtr, everyone to there own opinions.09:20
z3braWhy does ports always remove /lib/* ?09:26
dxtrI just argued and someone got mad09:26
teK__Romster:09:26
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: bridge-utils: fix includes for more recent kernel headers09:27
teK__let me know if this fixes things for you on 3.109:28
Romsterta teK__09:28
teK__welcome09:28
Romsterso far mesa3d compiles without a footprint mismatch at all.09:28
Romsteri haven't tried mesa-32 yet though.09:28
Romstergot a paste for me?09:29
Romsterdon't worry about it dxtr09:29
teK__http://dpaste.com/1774919/09:30
teK__I can provide pkginfo -i, too09:30
Romsterthat was fixed ages ago are you sure your not missing a port?09:30
Romsterprt-get deptree mesa3d09:30
teK__the thing is: this X stuff is needed for spice in qemu so I probably did some prt-get depinst spice--tralala09:30
Romsteri had added a few deps09:31
teK__ah09:31
teK__that may be the problem09:31
teK__stupid sysup/depends thingy ;)09:31
Romsteryeah hehe09:31
Romsteri saw that and it took me awhile to nail the dependencies to fix that.09:31
teK__# prt-get deptree mesa3d | grep -c '\[ \]'09:31
teK__309:31
teK__;)09:31
teK__thanks Romster09:32
Romsterya that will do it.09:32
Romsteroh whos llvm maintainer looks...09:32
z3braRomster, the texlive package you provided does not work with the poppler lib in the repos09:32
z3bradoes it works for you ?09:33
Romsterah is tek llvm 3.4 is out09:33
teK__yay09:33
Romsterand the --enable-experimental-targets=R600 is not experiential anymore09:33
Romsteri haven't tested yet.09:33
Romsterand wb teK__ i know you have been very busy09:34
teK__slowly crawling back to live, yeah. ty ;)09:34
Romsterz3bra, i'll rebuild it.09:34
teK__s/live/life/09:34
Romster:)09:34
Romsterdon't forget to rebase some stuff got edited while you were away09:35
Romstermostly in 3.1 branches though09:35
teK__yeah I didnt do anything on that09:36
teK__checking out llvm from 3.1 .. did jaeger not remove clang on my behalf?09:36
teK__http://crux.nu/gitweb/?p=ports/opt.git;a=blob;f=llvm/Pkgfile;hb=3.1 suggests so09:36
teK__ah09:37
teK__rm -rf tools/clang09:37
teK__:}09:37
teK__I need to create a clang port.. it's basically the "only thing| I used from llvm09:38
Romsterhe did teK__09:39
teK__good09:40
Romsteron the grounds it 1) can be comiled in its own port 2) it drastically slows down the time too compile 3) mesa3d doens't need clang09:40
teK__yes, there's no disagreement on this point on my side09:41
teK__btw.. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.openbsd.misc/211963 ;)09:43
Romsteri had jaeger help me get llvm-32 to work what a pain that was to make it work for mesa3d-3209:44
teK__:\09:45
teK__uhm no cfe-3.4 (yet)09:46
Romsteroh09:47
Romsterso can't be done yet09:47
teK__or it's compatible with cfe-3.3.. I will check that later09:48
teK__first I have to make a support line call ... brb09:48
diverseInteresting read here: http://lwn.net/Articles/502303/09:51
diverseSo it turns out, the bigger and less contrained your system memory is, the shorter the time gap between tmpfs and tmpfs with -pipe is, but in general, they are fairly close in speed.09:53
teK__I always suspected that: time to argue about that > time safed with or without -pipe09:53
RomstereK__> btw.. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.openbsd.misc/211963 ;) <- that is so bad09:55
diversewow, after reading that, I feel less enthusiastic about openssl09:59
Romsterthey better fix that up asap so it don't happen again. how unresponsible can they be to favor speed over security.10:01
diverseRomster: remember what prologic said? You can only choose 2, between fast, great, cheap. Apparently they choose the fast and cheap route.10:02
Romsteryeah i am thinking that already10:02
diverseI wonder if I should tunnel my vpn connections with ssh instead?10:04
prologicglad to see you guys have an appreciation for software development and it's life cycles (good and bad)10:07
diverseprologic: well the difference here seems to be that they choose speed over security, but that seems to correlate with `fast` in development cycles10:12
Romsteri've always liked good practices, i'm always cursing at the crap i come across10:12
prologicone can only hope the patch has been thoroughly reviewed10:15
dxtrRomster: They aren't favoring speed over security10:17
diverseprologic: that, or someone does a better implementation of SSL (which will take time to be great)10:17
dxtrThey are ALWAYS favoring security (And code correctness) over speed10:17
dxtrBut, if you actually read the mail, you'll see that THEY aren't developing openssl10:17
dxtrTherefore it isn't their bug10:17
dxtrOr did I misunderstand it?10:18
dxtrI'm friends with openbsd developers :P10:18
diversesigh, do that before you jump the gun...10:19
dxtrdiverse: I thought it was the thread i read this morning10:25
dxtrthere are currently three threads about it10:25
dxtrsorry about that :P10:28
diversez3bra: thanks for adding more zathura plugins10:35
z3brayou're welcome10:40
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diversez3bra: btw, you can also list the plugins in the zathura-gtk Pkgfile as "# Nice to have: <ports>" under "# Depends on: <ports>"10:51
diverse*gtk210:52
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z3braMmmh yeah probably10:54
z3braI'll do that10:54
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diversethought I mention it :)10:55
frinnsthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUf3UPBnkmg10:55
frinnstnow thats adorable10:56
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: stunnel: update to 5.0116:53
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: php: update to 5.5.1116:53
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: php-fcgi: update to 5.5.1116:53
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: php-fpm: update to 5.5.1116:53
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: php-mysql: update to 5.5.1116:53
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: php-sqlite3: update to 5.5.1116:53
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diverseRomster: oh wow: http://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/04/08/julian-assange-debian-is-owned-by-the-nsa/19:26
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tilmanwhy do you even link that shit?19:30
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diverseWell, in a world where companies and power have huge influence on stifling our security and quality of software, wouldn't hurt to be brought up. But if this is killing the dead horse, then I'll stop.19:39
tilmanthat blog is obviously not to be taken seriously19:40
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Amnesiahttp://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/04/08/julian-assange-debian-is-owned-by-the-nsa/19:57
Amnesiaso true^.^19:57
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diverseAmnesia: I just posted that19:57
diverseand it's only going to piss off tilman19:57
Amnesia:p19:57
Amnesiafinally people are beginning to grasp how fucked everything is \o/19:58
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joacim"julian-assange-is-owned-by-the-nsa"20:32
joacimI'm still waiting for the results of the read/write test I took 3 weeks ago20:32
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diversejoacim: heh, you removed the debian part, clever :)20:47
joacimno I read it like that20:48
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