IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2014-04-14

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diversejoacim: have you decided to pick crux or some distro besides debian?05:51
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diversein France it may be morning, in other places, not so. :P06:35
diversenwe: where are you from?06:37
diverseokay, so you are closest to frinnst :)06:38
BitPuffinI could probably be even closer06:42
BitPuffindepending on cities etc06:42
z3braThe RFC says: "When someone joins the chat, it's assumed that he just woke up. Hence, it's the morning"06:46
diverseunless you are a night owl like me sometimes06:49
nweBitPuffin: Im from Uppsala06:49
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BitPuffinnwe: I'm from GBG07:16
BitPuffinseems kinda weird that exim is in core to me07:20
diversewell I removed the package off my system yesterday, so it didn't bother me anymore :)07:21
BitPuffinyeah haha, just mean that it seems like it would be better off being an opt package haha07:22
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diverseprobably the same for fetchmail07:22
BitPuffinfor sure07:23
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diversewhich I also removed yesterday07:23
BitPuffinfetchmail ain't in core07:23
BitPuffinit's in opt07:23
diverseah then it got moved already07:23
diversejust had it on my system as an orphan for while, so removed07:24
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BitPuffinwhat's the command for /etc/rc.d/ scripts?07:30
BitPuffinI mean if you wanna start or stop07:30
z3bra/etc/rd.c/<service> start|stop|restart07:31
BitPuffinso there is no like "service" command07:31
diverseyeah, the old fashion way07:31
BitPuffingood enuf :)07:31
z3braBitPuffin, you can make one07:31
diverseyou don't need a command for that07:31
BitPuffinand enable is basically just putting it in the daemons thing07:32
z3braservice() { /etc/rc.d/$@ }07:33
z3brashould do the trick07:33
z3bra$ service sshd start07:33
diversethere you go, your service command07:33
BitPuffinz3bra: I guess you'd put that in like shellrc file or something?07:34
z3brayour shell startup script07:34
diverseBitPuffin: put in your bashrc or zshrc07:34
z3bra(bashrc, zshrc, ...)=07:34
z3braI personally use 3 functions07:35
z3brastart(), restart(), stop()07:35
BitPuffinyeah that's why I said shellrc because some use bash, others (smarter people) use zsh07:35
BitPuffinyeah that's pretty good07:36
diverseoh yeah, z3bra, tell BitPuffin how much you hate feh. :P07:38
z3braI use bash personally :)07:38
z3braI don't find zsh *taht* useful07:39
diverseBitPuffin: becareful with your words, you will upset a lot of bash users here :P07:39
z3braI prefer this approach, because I can start/stop multiple services at once07:40
BitPuffindiverse: haha it was a little bit just for fun, bash is aight07:40
diverseit's fine to have perferences, just keep in mind others don't share the same taste. Crux exists to be the user's OS, whatever the user wants.07:46
BitPuffinyeah I know07:50
BitPuffinI was joking :)07:50
BitPuffinLike I said, bash is fine07:51
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z3bradiverse: well, in fact, there are some implicit rules :P07:54
diversez3bra: like what? Btw, youtube-dl got moved to contrib, you don't have to maintain your own if you don't want to07:55
z3braOh, yeah thanks07:57
z3bralike systemd ?07:57
diversez3bra: hehehe, well, I said you can "go for it, if you don't mind jumping off a cliff" or if you like having fun "cutting yourself" with systemd :P07:59
BitPuffinthat's not in a port07:59
z3braobviously, it's not :)07:59
BitPuffinwell it could have been lol08:00
z3branope ^^08:00
diverseActually a previous user here did have a port for systemd, but the repo disappeared08:00
BitPuffinand Gentoo packages it08:00
BitPuffinso of course it could have been :P08:00
BitPuffinou just need to be cray cray to use it08:00
Romsteravtually someone did package systemd08:01
diverselike I said, I won't stop you from jumping off a cliff.08:01
Romsterbut that was more of a exercise to see why it was crap08:01
diverseRomster: yep, horrorStruck did, but his repo disappeared08:01
Romsteri don't want the same fate so wont build it08:02
z3braI remember something like "systemd? over my dead body!" in the crux ML08:02
Romsterya lol08:02
BitPuffinit's not very unix08:03
diverseit's very windows-y ^-^08:03
BitPuffinit's like a magical box which you don't know anything about08:03
z3brain fact, it's more like OSX08:03
BitPuffindiverse: yeah, it's basically the registry lol08:04
z3bra('cause lennart loves OSX)08:04
diverseBitPuffin: especially with binary logging!08:04
BitPuffinlol yeah08:04
BitPuffindon't even mention that shit xD08:04
diverseand binary this and that08:04
dxtrfml. I'm porting an m68k project to x8608:04
BitPuffinsystemd is basically an os08:05
BitPuffinconsidering how it's trying to do everything08:05
z3braWe'll end up with systemd/linux08:05
z3braAnyway, I don't think systemd is a `bad thing'.08:06
diverseScrew you GNU, Systemd is taking over!08:06
z3braBecause it works after all08:06
z3braIt's just not for linux08:06
diverseoh my goodness, NO NO, bad BitPuffin BAD!!08:06
Romsterthink thats bad wasn't e17 also going binary config08:07
BitPuffindiverse: was I supposed to say pottering/linux? :o08:07
diverseyeah E was evening going down the same slope08:07
diverseand not making things any better sigh08:07
BitPuffinE is not an init and logging system though08:07
BitPuffinI'm not anti everything binary08:08
BitPuffinbut logs? come on08:08
Romsteri dunno make parsing logs faster?08:08
Romsterbump verion no longer vcan read old log08:08
z3braI think it's more about storing `structure' than logs08:09
diverseDude, there isn't any excuse to do binary configs at all. Let prologic give you a 30 minute talk about that08:09
Romsterwhat was the error again? i don't know i can't open the old log up.08:09
diverseBitPuffin: ^08:09
BitPuffindiverse: not on the command line no but on a gui it's more aight I guess08:09
Romsterlet the pastebin say it08:09
BitPuffinbut with systemd it's like08:10
BitPuffinshit it's not booting08:10
BitPuffincan't access systemd08:10
BitPuffinlet me just check the lo.... oh no08:10
Romsteroh the debug command in systemd and kernel oh boy08:10
z3brajust boot a systemd-rescue livecd08:10
Romsteroh but it's incompatible to chroot over :P08:10
BitPuffinthey are like08:11
diverseyou need systemd-chroot08:11
BitPuffinlogs, now with mega encryption08:11
diverseRomster: I was joking :P08:11
Romsterdiverse, i saw the joke and i laughed08:11
BitPuffin"oh" is just the sound that Romster makes when he's laughing08:11
Romsternrxt systemd will take on mdadm and lvm2 and cryptosetup08:12
Romsterit was more oh gawed that would be right....08:12
Romstercan see that actaully happening08:12
diversemore likely to take over lvm2, all things consider "redhat"08:12
diverseprobably mdadm too08:13
BitPuffinsystemd and pulseaudio08:15
BitPuffin2 things I won't have on my crux installation :P08:15
BitPuffinsurprising that there is no weston/wayland port :o08:17
diversebtw, E now forces you to use pulseaudio, so don't bother ;)08:17
diversewayland is going to be very slow to adopt, I think08:17
BitPuffinwell I don't use E08:17
diverseJust letting you know in case you ever do08:17
BitPuffinI've considered it08:18
BitPuffinand now I'll never consider it again lol08:18
Romstergtk3 is supporting wayland and probably qt508:19
diversele sigh08:19
Romsteryeah it arn't good08:19
diversesomeone needs to fork gtk2 and bring the compatibility over08:20
BitPuffinsure that's not already a thing?08:21
frinnstwayland wont take over for another decade or so, probably08:23
diversenot just the problem with gtk2, most of our favorite WMs are not ported over08:23
diverseand nvidia hasn't give a crap about supporting wayland either, so adoption is going to be uber slow08:25
BitPuffinI've been planning to write my own wm08:28
BitPuffinfor wayland08:28
BitPuffinbecause none of the wms work the way they freaking should lol08:28
BitPuffinit's like08:28
BitPuffinawesome does a great job knowing when a window is supposed to be floating and has good support for it08:28
BitPuffinbut it controls like dick08:29
BitPuffini3 controls like a dream but it has almost no clue when to make something floating08:29
diverseBitPuffin: you might want to look into 2bwm08:29
BitPuffinand when something is floating with i3 it's insanely stupid08:29
z3bratilling is a dead end08:29
BitPuffinand xmonad doesn't do much well unless you haskell it up08:29
z3bratinywm is where it's at08:30
diverse(I don't see the point of tiling, only for terminals, but tmux takes care of that for me)08:30
z3braBut you might want some fancynesss, so there are other WM08:30
diversez3bra: recommend your wm already08:30
z3branot just this one08:31
z3bracwm, evilwm are nice too08:31
BitPuffindiverse: is it even tiling08:31
z3brathat's how I use it08:32
diverse2bwm is floating, but on steroids08:32
BitPuffinon steroids, more like, like cinammon, but with less fluff08:33
z3branot like cinammon at all08:34
z3bracinammon is a DE08:34
z3bra2bwm, a WM08:34
z3bra2bwm manages your windows08:34
z3bracinammon provides a default-everything08:34
BitPuffinI know08:34
BitPuffinbut I mean like the cinammon wm08:34
z3bramutter ?08:35
BitPuffinyeah I duno08:36
BitPuffinmaybe I should use awesome and use treesome08:36
diversethe thing is, do you care more about tiling or floating?08:39
BitPuffindiverse: I want i3 style tiling with awesome style floating detection08:40
z3brause pytile then08:41
diversegonna get some sleep, night everybody08:42
BitPuffindoesn't seem like that uses the same tree structure as i308:43
BitPuffinnight diverse08:43
z3braidk i308:44
BitPuffintry it08:45
BitPuffinor look at their screencasts08:45
z3braI don't like tilling wm08:45
BitPuffinit's hard to use anything else08:45
z3braIn fact, I tried once08:46
z3bralike 5 minutes08:46
z3brathe weirdest 5 minutes of my life :)08:46
BitPuffineither way08:48
BitPuffinweston/wayland actually works rather nice with open sauce drivas08:48
z3brasame goes for X08:48
z3brathe problem is framerate08:49
z3braand 3D acceleration08:49
BitPuffinframerate is nice in weston08:49
z3braWell, I guess its ~ 60fps08:49
z3bralike with X08:49
BitPuffinI DUNNO08:51
BitPuffinfelt smoother08:51
BitPuffinhere's the situation where a # Provides: thing could be very useful08:54
z3braon crux ?08:54
BitPuffinif you have XWayland, you could say that it provides X11 or whatever, so packages that depend on X11 will use XWayland instead08:54
z3braWell, that's how you end up with screwed PKGBUILDs08:54
z3braadding more and more features to a simple thing08:55
z3braYou're the power user08:55
BitPuffinyeah but08:55
BitPuffinhow else would I achieve the same thing?08:55
z3brapkgrm xorg-server08:55
BitPuffincall it just x11 even though it's xwayland or something maybe08:55
z3brapkgadd wayland08:55
z3brado it by hand08:56
BitPuffinso use the "old" tools rather than prt-get in that case08:56
BitPuffinwon't prt-get whine?08:56
z3brawhy ?08:56
BitPuffinwhen updating and stuff08:56
BitPuffinI dunno08:56
z3braprt-get is just a wrapper for the other tools08:56
BitPuffinif it's that easy then I'm happi08:56
BitPuffinI don't mind having to do the esoteric setups on my own08:56
z3braprt-get is just an automated tool08:56
frinnstgod damnit, how the fuu do you set a keyboard map in debian squeeze?09:18
frinnstdpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration09:20
BitPuffinfrinnst: it's easy09:21
BitPuffinit's like in a /etc file09:22
BitPuffinsomething like /etc/keyboard09:25
frinnst/etc/kbd exists, but contains nothing related to maps09:25
frinnst/etc/default/keyboard contains only xkb stuff09:26
frinnstdefault/console-setup only contains utf stuff09:27
frinnstdpkg-reconfigure solved it, but still cant find what it changed :)09:27
frinnstuseability layers are so much more easy/fun! :)09:35
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dxtrCan I set options for wget in the Pkgfile?09:50
dxtrBecause I've set the source=() to point to a download page09:51
dxtrWhich results in the output file being called "download"09:51
frinnstyou can probably force PKGMK_WGET_OPTS="" in the Pkgfile, never tried it myself09:52
z3brawhy don't people think to update footprints in opt/ ? :(09:55
dxtrfrinnst: Oh, thanks09:55
dxtrBut it turns out that isn't the issue09:55
dxtrIs pkgmk extracting the filename from source=()?09:56
dxtrThat's just.. weird09:56
z3brawhy ?09:56
dxtrz3bra: Because the filename might not even be in the URL09:57
z3braI see09:57
dxtrRedirects and all09:57
z3brayeah sure09:57
z3bradoesn't it uses $name / $ version09:58
dxtrWell that's wrong too :P09:58
dxtr(And no, it doesn't seem to do that)09:58
dxtrI think something more appropriate would be to at least have the ability to specify what the filename actually is09:59
dxtrThere is a better way to define the sf urls10:00
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frinnstz3bra: what port and what issue?10:14
z3brafootprint mismatch10:19
frinnstcan you paste the error?10:19
z3braI run into this problem at every update10:20
z3braI can't10:21
z3bralet me build it again10:21
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frinnsti get a footprint error/warning too, because i have cups installed on this box10:25
z3braso it's related to cups10:25
frinnstits because gtk3 links against it if detected. but because cups is not a dependency of gtk3 its not included10:25
z3braI see10:26
frinnstyou should probably add PKGMK_IGNORE_NEW="yes" to your pkgmk.conf10:26
frinnst"NEW" files are not an error, really10:26
z3braYeah I should :P10:26
z3braI just forgot to set it10:26
frinnstyou should see similar "errors" with other ports as well, gtk2 for example10:27
z3brawho build gtk2 anymore ?10:27
frinnstgtk3 depends on it :)10:28
frinnstotherwise they dont coexist nicely together10:28
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frinnsthm, why cant firefox detect my cups printer?12:08
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joacimdiverse: for what?12:24
z3brafrinnst, I think you should add it to your client.conf12:27
z3braBut I might be wrong. I don't know how firefox handle this12:28
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frinnstz3bra: nothing currently finds my printer, and firefox isnt linked with it12:43
frinnsti bet something went wrong when i upgraded to 3.1-beta12:43
frinnstsome lib that was built without cups support12:44
z3brais your printer on the network ?12:52
z3braOr plugged via usb ?12:52
frinnstnetwork, it prints just fine via the cups interface13:02
z3bratry to put the server ip in /etc/cups/client.conf13:03
frinnstim running cups locally13:07
frinnstconnected to printer via socket://<ip>:<whatever>13:07
z3braAh okay13:07
z3braI can't help I'm affraid13:09
z3braNever used such a printer13:09
z3braMaybe, try using directly the printer's IP in client.conf, without running cups13:09
z3bra(I don't think that'll work, but worht tryin' :P)13:10
jaegershouldn't need client.conf at all for local printing13:10
frinnstit used to work just fine, but i dont print stuff very often so dunno when it broke13:10
jaegerby local I mean "the cups server is running on the machine"13:10
z3brayeah sure13:11
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frinnstuseless i3 cpu13:15
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frinnstgeez, how can it take so long to boot esxi ?15:12
juefrinnst: is gtk build with cups support?15:31
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dxtrfrinnst: esxi takes long to boot?15:41
dxtrI've never tried esxi15:41
jaegerIt usually boots very quickly if nothing is wrong with the hardware15:53
dxtrjaeger: It seems kinda counterproductive to have something wrong with the hardware15:55
jaegerHow would hardware issues ever be anything BUT counterproductive? I don't understand why you'd say that15:58
jaegerseems a rather silly statement15:58
jaegersorry, that sounds rather rude, didn't mean it to be. I should have just said I don't understand15:59
dxtrjaeger: It was a funny joke. Laugh!15:59
jaegerheh, alright16:00
dxtrKind of :P16:00
joacimclean your desk while waiting16:00
dxtrI would clean my desk.. If I had one16:00
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dxtrWell.. I have one. But the fiancee occupied it when we moved in together16:01
joacimI vacuumed mine yesterday16:01
dxtrThat is what my desk looks like now16:03
dxtrAnd disregard the shit image quality. I snapped it with the webcam on the mbp :P16:03
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joacimare those feathers?16:19
dxtrEaster, etc16:22
joacimthis is mine16:22
dxtrThat's what I want it to look like16:22
joacimlooks about the same still. moved the mini and AP under my desk, and got a mouse pad16:22
dxtrBut we don't have enough space for another desk and because I only have laptops she could borrow the desk16:23
dxtrAnd now it looks like that16:23
joacimgonna look for a bigger plaec t oo. so i don't have to do my computing right next to my bed16:24
dxtrI live in a three room apartment16:24
dxtrMy sofa takes up my entire living room :P16:25
Romstergtk-update-icon-cache -f -t /usr/share/icons/...16:28
Romsteris lal i have todo for xfce4 right?16:28
Romsterfor new themes16:28
dxtrjoacim: :P16:30
dxtrBitPuffin: You're a phony! :(16:37
Romstergdk-pixbuf-query-loaders fixed it16:40
joacimthought that was your green toy turtle, dxtr16:43
teK__jesus.. joacim uses the same crappy table from IKEA as I do16:45
teK__but not for long!116:45
joacimbiggest cheap desk i could find16:46
joacimbought it when i still had a crt display16:46
teK__my workplate looks like a u after some years of usage16:47
joacimmine is a little bent, but nothing too bad. I just don't like how ugly it became after two months of use16:48
joacimthe fake wood texture is worn down, and there are holes in it exposing the particle board16:49
dxtrjoacim: that turtle scared the shit out of me earlier today17:10
dxtrWas cleaning up stuff on the floor and it started making sounds17:10
dxtrI was like "WAAAT!?"17:10
dxtrWent to pick up a package17:10
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frinnstwhat a glorious game of thrones episode18:19
frinnstsuddenly i feel happier18:19
joacimgame of thrones always made me feel down18:21
joacimtoo much drama and backstabbing18:21
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BitPuffinteK__: what aree you talkin bout, Geoffrey is the man18:58
frinnstteK__: seen the last ep?19:12
teK__sure =)19:13
tilmani liked his "krrrrr" face19:21
frinnstcompiling on the raspberry pi is sooo fun19:54
Feigrfrinnst: best GoT ending!19:58
joacimdid they kill half the cast again?20:13
frinnsti think this conversation should end here, spoilers are bad, m'kay?20:13
tilmanthere's this meme with george martin saying20:14
tilman"linux is my fav. OS. it has the killall command"20:15
jaegerread the books, then threaten to tell your friends who dies next if they're annoying you. :)20:16
frinnstthis actually frightens me20:16
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z3braIs there a prebuilt jre package around here please ?20:21
frinnstjre/jdk are oracle binaries20:21
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frinnstor do you want a pkg ?20:21
z3braa package :)20:22
z3brabecause the Pkgfile assume that you downloaded the jre20:22
z3braAnd I'm just too lazy ^^20:22
frinnstyeah, the readme is a tricky one :)20:23
frinnstjust a sec20:23
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z3brathank you !20:25
jaegerThe point of it is that you're supposed to agree to the license agreement20:25
z3braYeah I know20:25
z3braLet's say I did :)20:25
Feigrfrinnst: impulsköpte precis ett IBM Model M20:26
frinnstknew it20:26
frinnstthat will need a scrubbin' :)20:29
FeigrI'll just lick it clean20:29
frinnstso no caps then?20:32
Feigrwe'll see20:33
teK__jaeger: added the new dev + separate vlan20:38
FeigrI really wanna get this now:
teK__yet it still cannot send packets, I suspect the routing table to be the issue as the ddefault gw is identical and if eth1 is pinged, eth0 should be used to answer which is wrong :)20:39
frinnsthello mr wrong window20:39
joacimhey man20:39
frinnstFeigr: too bad we threw out those old terminals :)20:40
jaegerteK__: what's the intent of having 2 interfaces on the same subnet?20:40
Feigrfrinnst: yes20:40
teK__I need an apache (stupid online shop) and a lighttpd running simultanously20:40
teK__the other option would be to create a host-only if for the guest and do NAT + assign the second IP to the host20:41
jaegeras an alternative, how about running one of them on an alternate port and proxying connections to it as needed?20:41
teK__with squid or nginx? 3 daemons to serve simple websites .. -_-20:42
teK__but yes you are right.20:42
teK__that's an option20:42
jaegerhere's what I'd probably try:20:43
jaegerrun lighttpd on 80, apache somewhere else20:43
jaegerif the servers have different hostnames, use lighttpd to proxy hostname 2 to the apache port20:43
jaegerno squid or nginx needed20:43
teK__good point20:43
teK__didnt know lighty can do that, too20:44
teK__I could even use the hosts IP and forward http to the apache as it won't server anything on port 8020:44
jaegerI can give you an example if you like. I use this for a lighttpd+tomcat setup20:44
teK__I'd be grateful :)20:44
jaegerIt's for an XNAT server but should work fine for just about anything20:46
jaegerpretty generic20:46
teK__I should have come up with this YEARS ago20:46
jaegerIf you really want to go with the 2 NICs route you'll probably need to do some policy-based routing20:46
jaegerBut since both IPs are on the same subnet I'd suggest the lighttpd route with 1 IP20:47
teK__yes but ip(1) whines about additional tables and stuff and I'd prefer the 1+0.5 daemons option ;)20:47
teK__it's ip(8).20:47
jaegerI can also provide examples for policy-based routing seeing as how I do that on a bunch of servers here... but I think the other way is easier/clenaer20:48
teK__192.168.1.33 is my desktop's ip address here at home. BTW :P20:49
teK__yeah I'll go with lighty if it will cooperate *g*20:49
jaegerI made that IP up, redacted my actual info :)20:50
teK__seems to be working just fine21:01
teK__fun fact: it will eat the proxy.server directive happily even if the proxy module is not loaded :P21:02
teK__thanks a lot21:02
jaegernp :)21:18
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timcowchipbefore I update it, what will libpng srew up?21:54
teK__worked without hickups for me[tm]21:55
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teK__how I love umask being set to 022..22:00
teK__rwx-r--r-- /root/  with mysql root pw..22:01
timcowchipthanks teK_ I'll try it :)22:05
teK__ymmv :)22:06
xveei have a competition today. i should put the crux logo on my shorts22:28
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: [notify] postfix: 2.7.15 -> 2.8.1722:56
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BitPuffindo it23:22

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