IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2014-04-19

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An_Ordinary_HackHello there. Would someone mind helping a fellow out with a somewhat odd question?00:52
joacimwhat's the question?00:52
An_Ordinary_HackIs it possible/feasible to setup CRUX within another distro?00:53
An_Ordinary_HackI did it with Gentoo before, but I'm tired of ricing.00:53
An_Ordinary_Hackdxtr: Sorry, maybe I'm not too clear.00:54
joacimI would say it is possible00:54
An_Ordinary_HackIs there a link to a base CRUX install like included on the boot CD? I want to set it up within a chroot from Debian.00:54
dxtrWhat's wrong with the boot cd?00:55
An_Ordinary_HackIf I am still unclear let me know.00:55
joacimnow I'm not sure what you're asking anymore =)00:55
dxtrjoacim: I'm guessing he wants to install crux in a chroot00:55
dxtrAnd he wants to start the boot cd install :p00:56
An_Ordinary_Hackdxtr: Yes pretty much.00:56
dxtrAn_Ordinary_Hack: <-00:56
An_Ordinary_Hackdxtr: Because the boot CD is finnicky on this computer. Its got a buggy implementation of EFI00:56
joacimoh. I was too late.00:56
An_Ordinary_HackSo it causes issues when I try to get a network going from the boot CD00:56
dxtrBuggy EFI fuck yeah00:57
dxtrI heard Samsungs EFI is really good00:57
joacimdon't need networking right away. can install and your base system and update after you've done the install00:57
An_Ordinary_Hackdxtr: Its an HP over here.00:58
An_Ordinary_HackAlso, apologies, but I'm slightly inebriated.00:58
An_Ordinary_HackSo if I don't make sense lemme know.00:58
An_Ordinary_HackI'll take a look at this link.00:58
joacimis it buggy if you boot from usb keys?00:59
dxtrAn_Ordinary_Hack: I was quite sarcastig. Samsungs EFI is possibly the worst implementation ever00:59
joacimyou can install from usb keys too00:59
dxtrTheir response: "Not our problem"00:59
joacimLast I heard about EFI complaints it was from Linus Torvalds about Apple's EFI. =)01:00
joacimhe didnt like it01:00
RomsterAn_Ordinary_Hack, edit to your needs
dxtrjoacim: at least it works as advertised01:00
An_Ordinary_Hackdxtr: Same with HP, they claim bios mode compatibility, but it refuses to work with most USB keys unless I format them in a specific way01:00
An_Ordinary_HackI have to use dd,01:00
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An_Ordinary_HackUnetbootin or something else won't work.01:00
An_Ordinary_HackIts the weirdest EFI implementation I have seen.01:01
dxtrAn_Ordinary_Hack: Well, at least you won't brick it :P01:01
An_Ordinary_Hackjoacim: I am a recovering Macfag01:01
joacimI'm just a macfag01:02
An_Ordinary_HackApple has probably the worst X11 implementation I have seen.01:02
joacimheh. I refuse to install that stuff. it is how I learned to hate multiplatform software01:02
An_Ordinary_HackAnd their compatibility libraries break almost any BSD application due to issues that not even hard/sym linking resolves01:02
joacimto me that just means it works poorly everywhere01:03
RomsterOS X makes me mad they removed all the good terminal commands.01:03
joacimwhich ones?01:03
An_Ordinary_Hackjoacim: Its not that crossplatform stuff is bad.01:04
An_Ordinary_HackIts that Windows, OS X and GNU do it all wrong01:04
Romstercan't remember i tried a bunch of linux commands on a mac command not found.01:04
An_Ordinary_Hackjoacim: I can build applications between the BSD clans easily.01:04
joacimRomster: you install most stuff with homebrew/macports/fink01:05
An_Ordinary_HackAs soon as I build it on OSX/Darwin, I get some sort of autoconf or make error.01:05
An_Ordinary_HackAnd on Windows, well we all know that rubbish.01:05
dxtrRomster: I've been on OSX for five or six years now. What commands are missing?01:05
joacimyou're supposed to adapt your entire life to the mac way, dude01:05
Romsterjoacim, these are clients computers not my own.01:05
dxtrAll POSIX commands are there01:05
joacimdid yo uget a black turtleneck?01:05
jaegerAn_Ordinary_Hack: I feel your "shitty HP EFI pain"01:05
Romsterdxtr, don't you start i can't remeber half the crap i do all i remember is it frustrated the hell out of me so damn much i let the other IT guy deal with macs.01:06
jaegerAn_Ordinary_Hack: all I have at work is HP, pretty much, they're SO bad at EFI01:06
joacimRomster: I see. It is annoying hwen I have to work on someone elses computer and they don't have pkill01:06
Romsteri deal with the photo copiers and windows issues01:06
An_Ordinary_Hackjaeger: Yep.01:06
jaegerAn_Ordinary_Hack: if your question wasn't already answered it's pretty trivial to install crux into a chroot as long as you're on the appropriate arch01:06
An_Ordinary_HackI actually, believe it or not, really respected Steve Jobs01:06
An_Ordinary_HackBut once he died I noticed OS X became something that I didn't want.01:07
dxtrRomster: My point being: Maybe the command you're missing isn't part of POSIX?01:07
jaegerjoacim: apple still uses a weird EFI that's halfway between 1.1 and 2.0, hard to support well01:07
dxtrHell, OSX even has libbsd in base01:07
dxtrThat's pretty nifty01:07
dxtrBut don't get me wrong now, I dislike OSX as much as the next guy01:07
jaegerAn_Ordinary_Hack: using the setup script from the CD to install into a chroot might work with some effort but my suggestion would be to install a temporary pkgutils (or use the static one from the CD) and use pkgadd to install packages into your chroot01:08
dxtrBut all the commands are there (And because they're POSIX they're the same on all non-GNU systems I use)01:08
dxtrAnd all the APIs are there01:08
Romsterdxtr, i dunno i gave up caring about it and i can never get used to the maximise minimise exit buttons on the left.01:08
joacimAn_Ordinary_Hack: I think 10.6 was my favourite. the newer ones just feels worse somehow01:08
An_Ordinary_Hackjaeger: I got it thank you.01:08
jaegerAn_Ordinary_Hack: ok01:08
dxtrRomster: I don't even use 'em :P01:09
An_Ordinary_HackI appreciate you guys helping me - I'm really pissed off with the systemd distros, so I guess I'm a refuge?01:09
dxtr"I'm a refuge" sounds kinda dirty01:09
RomsterAn_Ordinary_Hack, well we are nearing release of crux 3.1and that's moved to eudev01:09
jaegerThe thing I absolutely hate MOST about HP's BIOS/UEFI is that on soft reboots it likes to ignore your keypresses01:09
jaegernot every time but a lot of the time01:10
dxtrjaeger: really? :D01:10
jaegeryes, it's aggravating as hell if you're using the boot menu a lot (which I do)01:10
jaegeronce the OS boots it's fine, I just mean it ignores the BIOS/UEFI control keys sometimes01:10
dxtrjoacim: Btw, just a note: OSX has pkill01:10
dxtrIt's in base01:11
dxtrAND killall01:11
joacimdxtr: I know. It is new with one of the recent versions of OS X01:11
dxtrand pgpep01:11
dxtrI was quite amazed when I realized there's a built-in sshd01:12
BitPuffinpgrep is the best01:12
An_Ordinary_HackRomster: Sounds great. I know another CRUX user, he told me CRUX wouldn't move to systemd so I was like, I'm coming over!01:13
Romsterthat is my usable guide i use so far but i'm gonna move over to using docker at some point01:13
An_Ordinary_HackI absolutely despise Poettering and Kay, some of the worst devs ever.01:14
Romsterso do all of us01:14
RomsterAn_Ordinary_Hack, there is that too but i do a few more steps01:14
dxtrIf systemd becomes more or less obligatory (Everything depends on it) then I'm bailing, really01:15
joacimI feel everything sucks these days. Don't know what to do. Maybe I'm just growing up.01:15
An_Ordinary_HackAlso, side note here, but am I the only one who dislikes ALSA?01:16
dxtrjoacim: BSD \o01:16
joacimbeen thinking about doing some painting and drawing again01:16
dxtrI see no problem with alsa, really01:16
dxtrHas served me well for the past 12 years or so01:16
RomsterOSS was meant to die but all closed source stuff uses OSS still?01:17
joacimI'm wondering what those SteamOS uses01:17
joacimSteamOS games*01:17
joacimI used OSSv4 for a while. Thought it was pretty nice. Worked a little better than ALSA did for me, but I don't think it is that usable on laptops and such01:18
dxtrRomster: OSS isn't all bad01:18
dxtrWhich is why I guess it is still there01:18
Romsteri guess so01:19
An_Ordinary_Hackdxtr: I prefer OSS because ALSA is utterly broken it see,s01:19
Romsterno one can seem to settle on one sound engine though01:19
dxtrAn_Ordinary_Hack: Well, I must say you're doing something wrong then01:19
dxtrHaven't had a single problem with alsa for 10 years01:19
joacim10 years ago I couldn't play audio from two applications at the same time (using alsa)01:20
joacimgot solved a few years later tho01:20
An_Ordinary_HackI can run emulators like xnp2 on FreeBSD via OSS with no lag in sound, but same computer, but Arch/ALSA I was getting sound stuttering.01:20
An_Ordinary_HackSo yeah gonna build a kernel with OSS support.01:21
dxtrAn_Ordinary_Hack: Settings..01:22
An_Ordinary_Hackdxtr: Nope I even had my configuration verified by an ALSA proponent.01:23
An_Ordinary_HackWho pointed to my HW01:23
dxtr"proponent" sounds trustworthy01:23
An_Ordinary_HackSo I told him, quite brutally to go jack off.01:23
RomsterAn_Ordinary_Hack, we have a emulator repo01:24
Romstermostly done by nogagplz01:24
dxtrIf only there was a way to contact the developers in some kind of public forum so many people can take part in the discussion01:25
dxtrBecause maybe, just maybe, it's an actual software issue that needs to be resolved :p01:26
An_Ordinary_HackRomster: Cool, does it have xnp2 (PC-9821 emulator in it?)01:26
An_Ordinary_Hackdxtr: When I say proponent he tried to call out my audio engineer friend that uses JACK.01:26
Romsterif it don't poke nogagplz about it01:27
An_Ordinary_Hackdxtr: And he does have a decent amount of knowledge about it as he fixed my messed up asound.conf.01:27
dxtrMeh.. I barely know what JACK is01:27
An_Ordinary_Hackdxtr: Its not a config issue, only seems to happen under ALSA's OSS compatibility library01:30
An_Ordinary_Hackdxtr: Plus I do work with both linux and BSD01:30
An_Ordinary_HackI like to have things that are portable and not locked to a certain kernel.01:30
dxtrExcept for OSX I've mainly been using BSD for the past five year :p Started using CRUX on my ARM stuff01:33
dxtrAnd an ARM prototype we have at work01:34
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Romsteroh he left01:43
Romster handles oss to alsa01:44
joacimI've used that in the past with OSSv401:45
joacimworked pretty well01:45
jaegerworks decently for pulse integration as well01:46
Romsteri should move that to opt really.01:46
Romsterbeen pretty lazy lately on ports01:46
Romsteri'm hacking away at a steam port.01:47
Romsteri already made one but i'm improving it01:47
jaegerI just deleted mine today, heh01:47
jaegerinstalled a steamos box01:47
Romsterguess it was sub-optimal?01:47
jaegerI was having sound issues. worked in big picture mode and native games but not while streaming01:48
jaegerThat's the problem I've had every time I've tried to use it on crux01:48
jaegerthat isn't the fix01:48
Romsterwhat hacks did you do again?01:49
jaegertwo things: I exported SDL_AUDIODRIVER=alsa (instead of the patch) and I replaced the bundled openal with my own openal-3201:49
Romsteryour own it's in compat-3201:50
Romsteroh it's not -_-01:50
jaegeryou sure about that? heh01:50
Romsterit will be01:50
Romsteryou got the openal-32 port still add it to compat-32 or throw it on pastebin01:50
jaegerI deleted them all, sorry01:51
jaegerit wasn't anything unusual, though01:51
Romsternevermind i can remake it01:51
jaegeryou might not need to... tilman said the bundled openal worked for him, I think01:51
Romsterdid you jsut rm the lib files in steam for openal-32 or use the LD_PRELOAD thing01:51
jaegerI removed them01:52
Romsteri'll try with the bundled one first.01:52
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diversesteam is a real challenge?04:07
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diverseRomster: I think I already have your alsa-plugins port installed, it's pretty much essential for an all around good experience, so I vote for move to opt04:22
Romsteryeah me too04:43
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: alsa-plugins: romster -> opt04:57
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: youtube-dl: 2014.04.07 -> 2014.04.1305:03
diversethanks Romster05:47
Romsterspider progress test
Romsteri've found a few problems with prologic's spider but it'll get fixed so its useable for my needs.06:02
Romsterthats before me even sorting anything too.06:02
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Romster not optimized yet but this is a head of version sort to grab the most recent file06:17
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Romsterwhos hungry xD12:29
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diversea pizza cake? What a novel concept13:37
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joacimNest had such a nice product, not it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth14:08
frinnsttilman: you still involved with xorg?14:33
frinnstmake them push a release of libxfont :)14:33
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tilmanfrinnst: try #xorg-devel on monday at us office hours? :)15:19
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BitPuffinanyone here know how to create a new partition table?17:24
BitPuffinbecause for some reason I have 4 empty invisible partitions17:24
BitPuffinwell not really partitionsn17:24
BitPuffinbut they take up 1 2 3 and 417:24
BitPuffinso when I create a partition the first partition is sda517:25
BitPuffinwhich is dumb17:25
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BuskDoes anyone here (who are comfortable editing source code) have a couple of minutes?17:30
joacimBitPuffin: you can create a new partition table, you'll lose your old partitions tho17:44
joacimtestdisk can recover partitions, if thats what you're trying to do17:45
BitPuffinjoacim: I have already moved all my data17:45
BitPuffinso I'm doing a fresh partitioning anyway17:45
tilmanBusk: just ask your real question?17:45
BitPuffinjoacim: I'm just trying to partition my harddrive and am getting annoyed that the first partition I create is sda5 if I create a logical partition and sda2 if I create a primary17:46
BitPuffinwithout having other partitions17:46
BuskWhile taking a look at the source code of evilwm. Is it trivial to make it resize solid?17:46
joacimlook at the help screen for fdisk. it should have an option for creating a fresh partition table17:47
joacimdon't remember what it is called. don't have access to fdisk right now. parted has a similar option.17:48
BitPuffinit was o17:49
BitPuffinI did o17:49
BitPuffinand w17:49
BitPuffinand in cfdisk if I print the partition table it's still the same17:50
BitPuffinreally weird17:50
BitPuffinbut creating a new partition does what I want17:50
BitPuffinat least sda1 with primary17:50
joacimkinda sounds like you have an extended partition, since you say you can create a logical partition17:51
BitPuffinyeah but now I got what I wanted17:51
BitPuffindo I need e2fsprogs if I don't use ext2?17:57
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BitPuffinodd that there is no port for ecryptfs18:05
BitPuffinhmm, would be awesome to have a SERVICES= type of thing for a usre18:21
BitPuffinso you could set things to start on login :D18:21
BitPuffinbut hmm18:22
BitPuffinguess that's not really the job of the initsystem18:22
cruxbot[xorg.git/3.0]: xorg-libxfont: added temporary build fix for fontsproto update18:37
BitPuffincrux you dreamy bastard, 8 seconds from grub to login prompt on a shitty laptop :D18:39
joacimi'd just make stuff start with bashrc or something like that19:06
joacimor with cron19:06
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BitPuffinjoacim: Yeah that's what I do now19:44
BitPuffincron though? does that do stuff on login?19:44
joacimwhen crond starts19:49
joacimI use it to start my torrent client19:49
BitPuffinwell crond is started by SERVICES19:49
BitPuffinso that doesn't really help I guess19:49
BitPuffinthe initial updating process after installing 3.0 is ridiculous xD19:50
joacimusing bashrc could be annoying when you start multiple terminal sessions maybe19:50
BitPuffinalthough hmm19:51
BitPuffinusually you can do stuff with your WM I guess19:51
BitPuffinI should play with getting weston + xwayland working19:51
BitPuffinbecause if so I might be able to start working on my wm :D19:51
BitPuffinand since crux is a source based distro then the stuff that can build for wayland (ie gtk3 and qt apps) is easy to have them build as that :D19:52
BitPuffinthat's one big concern I had when using arch, but now there is no worry :)19:52
joacimRomster: <- footprint mismatch in alsa-plugins20:00
joacimnever mind. didn't notice prt-get installed the one from a different repo20:05
joacimyour port is fine =)20:05
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BitPuffinthe one disadvantage to using a source based distro is firefox23:56
joacimcan grab a binary package from there if you want23:57
BitPuffinwho's website is this?23:58
BitPuffinyeah I was kinda considering doing a similar thing for firefox lol23:58
BitPuffinand I still might23:58
BitPuffinsince I'm gonna add some optimizing flags etc to gcc23:59
BitPuffinso it doesn't optimize for everybody23:59
BitPuffinbut more like my CPU23:59
BitPuffinbut hrm23:59
BitPuffinthen it would have to be recompiled anyway23:59

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