IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2014-04-21

nogagplzwhy the down face frank00:10
Romsterthat's not a down face.00:11
Romsterbut yours are frustrating <<00:26
Romsterand wrong windows.00:26
Romster-s00:26
Romstercoffee time i'm clearly not awake yet00:27
BitPuffinRomster: clearly indeed lol00:28
Romster<<00:34
diversehahahaha!00:47
diverseRomster: sorry for the over-the-top dialog earlier ;)00:50
diverse*dialogue00:51
Romstereh i expect it to happen. it's nothing i've seen more in furry channels. and in commodore 64 irc during live stream casts.00:54
diverseI had to do something to bring down my boredom earlier and that's why it went into a clash00:55
Romsterhehe00:56
Romsteryou need to get into a social channel00:56
diversethis channel is fine enough ;)00:57
Romsteryou sure <<00:58
diverseWell, if I get really bored enough, I could stop by #rust on irc.mozilla.org and have them fill me in hours of computer science based knowledge01:00
Romsterhehe true01:01
diverseand figuring out what are the latest changes and try to keep up which goes on forever01:01
Romsterquite suprised that D is active again and by merged into gcc later.01:05
nogagplzyou should get your version sort merged with systemd01:06
RomsterROFL01:06
diverseRomster: hmm, D is only great as a compiled natively Java alternative... in otherwords: GC, GC everywhere!01:07
Romsterthat would make no sense unless systemd also was a package manager01:07
Romsterdiverse, eww01:07
diversesystemd is an OS, the only thing it lacks is a decent init systemd01:07
diverse*init system01:08
Romsterhaha a new take on emacs01:08
diverseRomster: yep, GC there, GC here, it's everywhere, that's what makes D all super sugar coated.01:09
Romstera project i know that heavily relies on java is slowly rewriting it in C++01:09
diverseif the project relys on real-time execution, which the GC sucks at, than yeah, better to port to C++01:13
Romsteryeah01:14
diverseand since java is already so popular and filled with lots of libraries, I don't see how D will be successful other than being a niche language.01:20
diverseand run by a one-man company01:21
BitPuffinD has a bad GC01:23
BitPuffinother than that it's ok01:23
Romsteri think java is gonna go downhill the way it's heading01:23
diversewell other people are developing languages for the JVM, so while the language might phase out, I don't think the JVM will, because other people are making JVM-based languages like Scala and Clojure01:27
diversein otherword, jre is still going to be your nightmare01:29
diverse*otherwords01:29
diverseRomster: makes you want to hurl huh?01:36
Romstergreat01:38
Romsteri'll just keep away from those.01:44
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nogagplzhey Romster I need your help for a minute02:04
Romsteron what nogagplz ?02:05
nogagplzgetting a drink of water02:05
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Romstergawd your an arse at times nogagplz02:06
nogagplzhey help a brother out02:06
Romsteri have a box that seems to have sshd ignore hosts.deny and sshd is configured with --with-tcp-wrappers02:26
Romsteram i missing something here.02:26
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Romsterhmm having sshd: ALL isn't such a good idea i thought hosts.deny over rode hosts.allow02:38
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jaegernope, other way03:21
Romsterany way to reverse that?03:22
jaegeruse iptables instead, perhaps03:23
Romsteri could but that defeats using tcp_wrappers03:24
Romsterfor a simple job03:24
BitPuffi1surprising that emacs is not in contrib03:43
BitPuffi1or even opt lol03:43
nogagplztruth be told, it's too big to fit04:05
Romsterthats what she said04:05
BitPuffi1ahahahaaaa04:06
nogagplzthanks for the compliment04:08
Romsteryour welcome it was a good time for a joke.04:14
nogagplznow ifyou'll excuse me, I need to find underwear with industrial strength elastic04:29
nogagplzthe hip pain is killing me04:29
Romsterhehe04:36
BitPuffi1aw04:42
BitPuffi1that sucks04:42
BitPuffi1wow did't know emacs was 30 freaking mb04:42
BitPuffi1and that's with xz compression04:42
Romsterthat's small04:48
Romsterthought it be bigger04:48
BitPuffi1how can it be so big though lol04:48
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diversefunny how talking about sizes works with a "she said" joke08:09
prologicUse vim08:33
prologicit's only 21MB08:33
diverseI think most of us here use vim...08:36
diverseprologic: binary or source code?08:41
diverseoh you messed up on the size for gvim, it's 2.1M not 21M08:42
diverseUse firefox08:48
diverseit's only 129KB08:48
diverseI thought firefox would take up more space08:50
diverseI guess that's why emacs deserves "30 megabytes and constantly swapping" phrase08:51
tilmanyou must be new here08:53
tilmanthe E in emacs is for "Eight", not 30 ;)08:54
tilmanand it's not the size of the tarball, but the system's memory...08:54
tilman...08:54
diverseI need to stop with the facetious remarks...08:55
diversetilman: I assume you are an emacs user?08:55
diversejust out of respect08:58
prologicbinary08:59
prologicpkgsize vim08:59
diverselet me check08:59
diverseall I did is ls the binary09:00
tilmandiverse: nope, i use vim09:00
prologic$ pkgsize vim09:00
prologicTotal kilobytes for vim : 2182409:00
diverseyeah the total size in the pkg, not just the binary09:01
prologic23.1MB09:01
prologic21.3MB09:01
prologicyeah that's what I was counting09:01
prologicthe entire package size :)09:01
prologicI don't have emacs installed09:02
prologicso I can't compare :)09:02
prologic$ pkgsize firefox09:02
prologicTotal kilobytes for firefox : 12884409:02
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Romsterhttps://github.com/guillaumezin/nvidiabl is that really required for nivida driverson laptops to set the brightness?10:06
Romsteralready added Option “RegistryDwords” “EnableBrightnessControl=1″ to xorg.conf10:06
Romsterecho 5 > /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0/brightness works10:20
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: denyhosts: security fix cve-2013-689015:16
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BitPuffi1prologic, diverse: I do use vim, but I'm expanding my horizons16:10
BitPuffi1there is something appealing about an editor that has a scripting language that is actually good16:11
BitPuffi1plus there is something called evil mode16:15
BitPuffi1which gives me probably all the features I use in vim16:15
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BitPuffi1diverse: I might try 2bwm18:43
BitPuffi1diverse: since I'm gonna attempt living in emacs for most things coding/irc/etc I just want something with as little overhead as possible that isn't just plain x1118:47
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diverseBitPuffin: go for it. Honestly I have nothing against emacs. If it works for you, then that's great! I remember you telling me how much you like dabbling with Haskell and other Functional programming languages, so tinkering or making stuff in elisp is probably right for you. Emacs serves it's own niche as does Vim, even though they are both (mega) text editors.20:58
BitPuffindiverse: well I don't use emacs, I'm just gonna try it out :)21:00
BitPuffinI'll probably use both21:00
BitPuffinfor different things21:00
BitPuffinWe'll see, maybe I won't even like emacs :P21:00
diverseor maybe you will and end up using it more than vim21:00
BitPuffinyup21:00
BitPuffinI think it is a good idea to try both though21:01
BitPuffinand I've used vim happily for years21:01
BitPuffinpeople seem to like org-mode which should be interesting to try21:01
BitPuffindiverse: how is 2bwm with fullscreen stuff?21:02
diverseI haven't tried 2bwm, as I was thinking of trying it. Ask z3bra, he is the expert21:02
BitPuffinwell he's been highlighted now so consider him asked lol :)21:03
diverseyeah I pinged him, so hopefully he will read the messages21:04
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diverseI realized I am getting tired of window decorations and found it easier just to hold tab and press the left or right mouse buttons for moving or resizing respectivetly21:11
diverseand the color borders idea looks awesome21:12
joacimemacs has this neat email client that i'd like to use21:15
joacimbut i dont want to install and learn how to use emacs just for some email21:16
joacimrather just write my own =)21:16
diverseor you could write your own in emacs ;)21:16
joacimdont see a point in that when i can just use this emacs email client21:17
joacimdon't remember the name of it right now21:17
diversejust pointing out the possibility :P21:17
joacimi actually like mousing around on my computer. is good for one-handed operation21:17
joacimnever liked typing with just one hand21:17
joacimso i tend to prefer window managers that functions well with a mouse21:18
diverse2bwm is also a mouse controlled floating WM, it's just a bit more minimalistic21:20
joacimmost can be controlled with a mouse, they're just not very good at it21:21
joacim2bwm seems nice tho21:21
BitPuffinjoacim: yeah that's kinda also what I wanna try, irc and email etc in emacs :P21:29
z3braoi21:46
BitPuffinoi21:46
diversehey21:47
z3braJust noticed your question about 2bwm :)21:47
z3brawhat d'you want to know ?21:47
diverseBitPuffin: I guess you have to be more specific :P21:48
diversez3bra: I guess he wants to know how it handles stuff in fullscreen, like with flashplayer or something21:50
z3brawell, as you want it to behave21:50
z3brathe application goes fullscreen ^^21:50
diversedoes 2bwm have the alt+click for moving/resizing?21:52
z3braobviously21:52
diversejust to make sure ;)21:52
z3bralike every single floating WM21:52
z3brabut you can bind in to something else21:52
diverseactually some of them don't implement that, as annoying that is21:52
z3braanyway, if you just want to move/resize windows with ALT+mouse, you don't need 2bwm21:53
z3bratinywm will go just fine21:53
diversebut 2bwm has the border highlights for notifying window focus21:54
z3brayeah sure21:57
z3brabut the point of 2bwm is that you can use it WITHOUT your mouse21:57
diverseyeah21:58
z3brawhile being as efficient as with a tilling WM21:58
z3bra(or even more)21:58
BitPuffinz3bra, diverse: well I was more thinking of games and stuff but flash as well21:59
BitPuffinz3bra: oh so it's keyboard centric? nice22:00
z3braI play games without problems :)22:00
diverseBitPuffin: like I said, floating wm on steroids22:00
z3brahttp://raw.z3bra.org/img/2bwm.gif22:01
z3bracheck this out ^22:01
z3braalso, there is *REAL* fullscreen, and false fullscreen22:01
z3brain real fullscreen, the application takes the focus and fill the whole screen22:01
BitPuffinmeaning? lol22:01
z3braAnd there is no way to unfocus that app22:02
z3bra(typically, games)22:02
z3bra(real games, not steam games)22:02
z3braand then, there is the WM fullscreen22:02
BitPuffinsteam games won't work? or wat22:03
BitPuffinlol22:03
z3braI personnally don"t use my whole screen, I have a 20 pixel around the screen that my apps can't reach22:03
z3brafor docks, status bar and such22:03
BitPuffinhm22:03
BitPuffinI see22:03
BitPuffinwhat terminal software do you recommend btw22:03
BitPuffinI've been using urxvt22:03
BitPuffinbut it's not that nice imo22:03
z3braIf I ask 2bwm to put a terminal window in `fullscreen', it will not fill the whole screen22:03
joacimst seems nice, but no scrollback (the devs recommend screen or tmux for that)22:04
z3brabut the screen minus those offsets22:04
BitPuffinah wait I might try using emacs for that22:04
z3braAnd steam apps works :)22:04
z3brabtw22:04
BitPuffincool!22:04
diversejoacim: people have made forks of st for adding scrollback. Also another annoying thing about st is that the del doesn't work for backwards backspacing22:04
z3braI find st awfull to configure22:05
z3braconfig.h is just too big22:05
BitPuffinsame with urxvt22:05
z3branah22:05
z3braurxvt is easy to configure22:05
BitPuffinwell it's no config.h22:05
BitPuffinbut it's sill22:05
z3brachange .Xresource, and source changes22:05
BitPuffinthere is like a million ways to do things22:05
joacimz3bra: it requires you to recompile to reconfigure?22:05
z3brast does22:05
BitPuffinrxvt. URxvt. urxvt. and a bunch of shit22:05
joacimthat's annoying22:05
z3braurxvt is the best terminal I've ever used22:06
joacimhard to have per user configurations with a terminal like that22:06
z3brabecause fast, efficient, powerful22:06
BitPuffinnot saying it's bad22:06
BitPuffinjust that it's kind of a pain in the ass sometimes22:06
z3braI don't see how22:06
joacimheh. i don't really like any of the current terminals out there22:06
BitPuffinwell like I said22:06
joacimfind issues with most of them22:06
z3brait just use the standard X.org customization stuffs22:06
BitPuffinthere is a million different prefixes in the XResources thing22:07
joacimi've settled on urxvt22:07
z3braBitPuffin, and there is a million of variables in st's config.h22:07
z3braBut I find urxvt's manpage easier to understand than comments in config.h22:07
z3brait's also easier to sync your changes between your computers22:08
z3braalso, urxvt does not need a mouse to select text22:08
diversesame with tmux in any terminal :P22:09
z3braand that's the ONLY real thing that hold me back22:09
BitPuffinz3bra: I wasn't arguing for config.h22:09
BitPuffinlol22:09
BitPuffinsounds terrible22:09
z3bradiverse, ALT+U to select urls in terminal22:09
z3brabeat that ;)22:09
diverseyou got me there, st sucks at that22:10
z3brathat is just a feature I can't live without anymore22:10
joacimseems like everyone is making their own wm these days22:10
joacimit is the new music player?22:10
z3brawat9$?22:10
z3bra*what?22:10
joacimpeople used to joke about the huge number of music players available22:10
z3braah, yeah22:11
joacimand now there are a million new window managers.22:11
z3braThere have been million WM since the beginning of unix :p22:11
joacimseems to me that the number kinda exploded when tiling window managers got popular22:12
z3bratwm, ctwm, fvwm, wmii, ion3, blackbox and such22:12
z3brammmh, maybe22:12
z3braWell, the number exploded when the first dwm release occured22:12
joacimi dont mind tho. if something doesnt work for you, why not modify it or make your own22:12
z3braevery new WM is a fork of it22:12
joacimis a good base for a wm maybe22:13
z3brait is22:13
joacimi wouldn't mind making my own.22:13
diverseanyone can fork tinywm and make their own unique WM22:14
z3brabut people just fork and change the name instead of contributing/submitiing patched22:14
diversealthough probably better to use XCB instead of Xlib for new WM projects22:14
z3bradiverse, the problem with tinywm is that it's based off of Xlib22:14
joacimi get the impression that suckless don't really want that many changes. to keep it simple.22:14
z3brayeah, in their last conference, they said that dwm is close to be finished22:15
z3braanyway, 2bwm is just awesome :)22:15
diversez3bra: https://github.com/rtyler/tinywm-ada/blob/master/tinywm-xcb.c22:15
diversexcb fork22:15
z3braI saw that once22:15
z3braAnd started my own wm22:15
z3braBut I quikly realised it'd be better to contribute to 2bwm :p22:16
diversedo what works for you ;)22:16
BitPuffinjoacim: cmus22:16
z3brabecause it has every floating WM features22:16
z3brawith less crap in the code22:16
z3braand faster execution22:17
z3bra(plus, XCB based ^^)22:17
diversez3bra: contributing to one project is better, because you help improve the quality, instead of just making quantity of crappy WMs ;)22:17
z3braexactly22:17
z3brathat is FOSS22:17
BitPuffinz3bra: 2bwm is not awesome. awesome is it's own window manager22:17
z3braawesome is crap22:18
z3brait's huge22:18
BitPuffins/it's/its/22:18
z3brait's bloated22:18
diverseI think it's better if we call it "awesome wm"22:18
joacimi dont think it is a problem that there are many new window managers. what sucks is that many of them aren't supported for very long22:18
joacimor they just grow into some kind of monstrosity very different from what it was in the beginning22:18
z3brajoacim, Is think that if support stops, it's because it's not efficient enough22:18
BitPuffinz3bra: how does one configure 2bwm?22:19
diverseBitPuffin: config.h22:19
z3braediting config.h, then recompiling :p22:19
BitPuffinaw22:19
diverseala suckless-way22:19
z3brathere is a branch that will add a configuration file22:19
z3brabut I'm not sure that it will be merged upstream one day22:19
joacimi kinda like awesome. using lua is cool22:20
BitPuffinz3bra: ever tried clfswm?22:20
z3bralua is nice22:20
diverseI would actually prefer a parser config rather than compile-in config22:20
z3braBitPuffin, nope22:20
z3branever heard of it22:20
BitPuffinhttp://common-lisp.net/project/clfswm/22:20
z3braAh, I read about that in fact22:20
z3braweird organisation :p22:21
diverseheh22:21
z3brait reminds me of good ol' ratpoison22:21
z3brabut weirder ^^22:25
z3braanyway, I need some sleep22:25
z3braGood night fellows !22:25
diversehave a good one22:25
BitPuffinsee you!22:26
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