IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2014-04-24

BitPuffingonna sleep eventually00:02
diverseit's your body00:02
BitPuffincould also be that I am kinda hungry00:06
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timcowchipI love crux :)01:35
timcowchipbeen fooling around with gentoo and its amazing, but I still like crux better01:36
timcowchipdid crux get revdep from gentoo, or the other way around?01:37
BitPuffingentoo.... more like gentno01:43
jaegerSame idea but I don't think they were related otherwise01:44
diversemore like genfoo (if you flip the 't' inversely vertically)01:45
diversetimcowchip: you like fooling around with different distros, right?01:47
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diversetimcowchip: if you want a challenge, try LFS :P02:24
timcowchipLFS, is that Linux For Suckers?02:25
diversegoogle it02:25
timcowchiplinux from scratch02:25
timcowchipI know, I was jk02:25
timcowchipiis the one where ./configure make make install is the package manager02:27
diverseuh... there is no package manager!! :P02:27
diversewell you could include your own02:27
timcowchipI know, there's no OS either its a book02:28
timcowchipgentoo gave me a couple of ideas for crux ports02:28
diverseand they are?02:29
diversebe specific02:29
timcowchipthey'll be in my repo soon02:30
BitPuffinby the way I checked the dmesg output to see if the firmware for my wireless got loaded and it did load successfully however it said that the API was old, could that cause it? I will grab the new one either way but do you guys think that could be why I'm not able to scan for access points?02:45
BitPuffinOne thing you can do to get a pkg manager with LFS is utilize pkgsrc02:45
diverseBitPuffin: he is not interested02:47
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prologicso who wants to help me build a package building service? :)02:49
diverseprologic: Romster would be a good candidate02:50
diversewow I had my system on for over 32 days since I last reboot. For me that is cool, but for servers, yeah yeah, I know...02:55
prologic$ ssh root@bart uptime02:58
prologic 02:58:01 up 315 days, 14:41,  0 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.0002:58
BitPuffinah realized I just rebooted lol02:58
diverseprologic: shame on you, you should have it over for 2 years at least! :P02:59
BitPuffinprologic: hmm that means you haven't don you job with upgrading the kernel;)02:59
diverseServers generally don't need kernel updates unless mandatory03:00
BitPuffinwell there is generally something security related in each dot release isn't there?03:00
diversewell yeah, but for real world servers that need to run 24/7, having zero-downtime == pleased users03:02
diverseI guess that's the point of have clusters of servers or mainframes03:03
BitPuffinscheduled downtime :P03:03
BitPuffinit's only a few seconds anyway03:03
BitPuffinunless something goes wrong03:03
BitPuffinsecurity > uptime03:03
prologicit's a container/vm03:04
prologicso I don't really care that much :)03:04
prologicand the only reason it doesn't have an uptime of 3+ years is ebcause it was once housed in a Quad-core Atom 1RU box at Hurriacne Electric a few years back before I migrated it from a physical to a openvz container to a new host at codero03:05
diverseprologic: I was just playing around. Note the ":P" emoticon03:05
prologicyeah I'm not scheduling downtime for bart just for a kernel upgrade03:05
prologicI probably plan to move yet again03:06 has a better server deal for less mmoney03:06
prologicand more resources03:06
BitPuffinthat's one grey website03:07
BitPuffinserverbörse lol03:07
diverseif you run a series of servers in parallel, I'm thinking you would be able to shut one of them down without impacting the uptime for updating and once finished, put it back up, as if nothing happened and work on the next one?03:11
prologicbut in this case bart does not have a partner in the services it provides03:12
prologicwhich is (again) why I'm a big fan of Docker and Dockerizing most of the stuff (if not all) I do and support03:13
prologicso in effect I would just shunt the services somewhere else, upgrade the host and shunt them back03:13
prologicas it stands right now, I could clone the openvz container that bart is03:13
prologicupgrade it03:13
prologicthen migrate the live/running bart to that03:13
prologicbut who could be bothered :)03:13
BitPuffinwell what do you do when you upgrade the load balancing server?03:20
BitPuffinthere ain't nuthin you can do03:20
prologicsure there is :)03:34
prologiconce I'm done designing my new infrastructure the load balnacing server will just be another container03:34
prologicit already is locally here with my local test setup03:34
BitPuffinyeah well I mean03:35
BitPuffinyou still need to update the kernel on the load balancer host at some point03:35
prologicyou mean the actual host serving up the containers/vms, etc03:40
prologicbut if you have a 2nd one of these03:40
prologicyou just shift the containers over :)03:41
BitPuffindon't you have to update the dns then though?03:44
BitPuffinwhich is like even worse than downtime03:45
prologicat least not necessarily03:58
BitPuffinwell how would you do et04:00
prologicso there's typically two ways to do this04:04
prologicDNS failover04:04
prologicand IP failover04:04
prologicI forget the exact terminology but in entworking04:04
prologictwo devices can be bound to the same ip address04:04
BitPuffinwell dayum04:06
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BitPuffinwat :P04:20
jaegeror something like a virtual ip with carp04:21
prologicthanks jeager :)04:22
prologicyeah IP bonding04:22
prologicvirtual ip, bonding04:22
prologicthat's the stuff :)04:22
BitPuffin haha04:24
BitPuffinthought you meant like friendship or father and son bonding04:24
jaegerthey're slightly different but part of the same concepts... ethernet bonding is a layer 2 thing, virtual IP is a layer 304:25
BitPuffinI don't know much about the layer stuff04:27
BitPuffinI'm merely a wonky developer04:27
BitPuffinSo uh04:27
prologiceven if you are a developer04:28
prologicyou should be familiar with the OSI model04:28
BitPuffinI am gonna run Jack as my audio server04:28
prologicit underpins everything you do as a web developer04:28
prologicI recommend you learn it :)04:28
BitPuffinyeah I should04:28
BitPuffinabout jack04:28
BitPuffinI obviously wanna start it on boot04:29
BitPuffinbut it should probably not run as root04:29
BitPuffinso what do you guys think04:29
prologicso don't run it as root? :)04:30
prologicdoesn't it support dropping priveleges?04:30
BitPuffinmaybe it does04:30
prologicI don't use jack btw04:30
BitPuffinI dunno04:30
prologiccheck :)04:30
BitPuffinI should04:30
prologicotherwise you can04:30
prologicsu -c "blah" - <user>04:30
prologicI do this in my /etc/rc.local04:31
BitPuffinbut you know, I can't put it in say .zshrc because it will run every time I log in04:31
prologicto spawn screen as my user running bfgminer04:31
prologicbut you can put it in ~/.xinitrc04:31
BitPuffinthat's true04:31
prologicand you can "check if it's running already"04:31
BitPuffinbut then it also doesn't shut down04:31
prologicI thought you said you were a developer? :)04:31
BitPuffinbut uh04:31
prologicyou can also do this little trick which I quite like04:31
BitPuffinwhat's rc.local for04:32
prologicinstall supervisord04:32
prologicpip install supervisor04:32
BitPuffinWell I write software, not shell scripts :P04:32
prologicconfigure it such that you (as your normal user) can write to say /etc/supervisor/conf.d04:32
prologicand run stuff under supervisor04:32
prologicwhich you can user options in supervisor like04:32
prologicuser=prologic in your app's config04:32
prologicsoftware, shells cripts04:32
prologicsame diff :)04:32
prologicit's still software :)04:32
prologicrc.local is just there as  a sort of extra04:33
prologicmost folks have it empty04:33
prologicbut you can shove whatever you want in there to start/perform at startup04:33
prologice.g: loading some kernel module or some daemon or whtaever04:33
BitPuffinI dunno linux scripts and game engines, apps and websites are different beasts04:34
BitPuffinah so it's kind of like /usr/local04:35
BitPuffinman the jack docs kinda suck04:38
jaegerwhat's the dirrerence between jack and jack-audio-connection-kit in ports? Obviously the version but is there a need for both?04:39
jaegeranyway, you could install it and see how it runs and if it can drop privs04:39
BitPuffinjaeger: one of them is jack 1 and one of them is jack 2, pretty sure both are alive projects just that they are different implementations04:40
jaegerYou can tell I'm not a jack user :)04:40
BitPuffinwell it's mostly people who do audio stuff who use it04:40
BitPuffinthe rest of the world has been polluted by Lennart Pottering or just use dmix04:40
darfoIs anyone getting "gzip: stdout: Broken pipe" errors from makewhatis -w since the upgrade of gawk to 4.1.1?05:06
BitPuffinwe should really change the default config for man for 3.1, I don't know which flags I am supposed to pass but the manpages are completely un readable05:11
jaegerwe actually just diagnosed and changed some of that stuff today05:12
jaegerfor 3.105:13
jaeger'unset LESSCHARSET' is a start05:13
BitPuffinjaeger: in make.conf?05:14
BitPuffinI remember last time I was using crux someone told me to alter the flags for pager05:14
BitPuffinso that it was less -somethingotherthanwhatit'snow05:14
jaegerit's set in /etc/profile05:14
jaegerbut you can test if it works by running 'unset LESSCHARSET' in your current shell05:15
BitPuffinyeah I will05:16
BitPuffinjust don't have crux running atm05:16
diverseone time I did thought about using vim as a pager (of course in read-only mode)05:55
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frinnsteven more epic stuff:
joacimI have only two people in my life that put me through that kind of shit.11:40
joacimI hope nobody else figures out that I know my way around a computer11:40
frinnstwe have a client and the chick that does their economy stuff is completely useless with computers11:41
frinnstthe old IT folks set her computers hostname to "barbie"11:42
frinnstshes real nice though so im always helpful :)11:42
prologiccourse you are :)11:46
prologiche he :)11:46
diverseyou mean "he he ;)"11:46
prologicyes yes I do ;)11:46
prologic*wink wink nudge nudge* :)11:47
joacimno english subs12:01
Amnesiafrinnst: check out "General Knas"12:03
Amnesiayou'll be able to understand him^.^12:03
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joacim"Le sigh"12:18
joacimfucking reddit12:18
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Romsterthe OpenSSL library will be the initiative's first project.13:16
prologicgood for them13:22
prologicI vote we all start using the OpenBSD SSL library :)13:22
prologicI'm all for gutting and culling useless piles of code that grew too complex for anyone to understand :)13:23
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joacimprologic: I'm feeling more like just finding a new hobby ;)14:30
joacimPainting maybe14:30
joacimor some physical activity that doesnt involve risking my life or competition14:31
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BitPuffinWhat is the command for rebuilding everything in xorg?16:27
BitPuffinjaeger: unset LESSCHARSET didn't help :/16:32
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jaegerso what's the problem you're actually having?16:40
BitPuffinjaeger: well when I look at man pages it's filled with ESC[<numbersandstuf>]16:41
BitPuffinor something like that16:41
BitPuffinit's unreadable16:41
BitPuffinit's hard to do things without man pages ;_;16:41
BitPuffinI can't even read the man pages so that I can fix the man pages xD16:41
jaegerdoes it happen both in console and in x terminals? does setting or unsetting LANG make a difference?16:41
BitPuffinoh I can't check xorg right now16:42
BitPuffinsince I'm updating it to 3.116:42
BitPuffinI guess first I need to tackle, how can I rebuild everything I have installed from the xorg collection16:42
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frinnstpreparing a firefox esr port. Anybody interested?18:23
frinnsti should probably ask after firefox 29 (or whatever it is) gets released and introduces that horrible ui18:23
joacimeric s. raymond18:26
jaegerI was guessing otherwise in this context but what do I know? :P18:26
frinnstextended asdf18:31
frinnst= lts18:32
joacimwill they stop using this versioning scheme before they reach 100?18:32
frinnstjust wait a few more months and you'll see18:36
BitPuffinah I'm gonna use bleeding edge I think18:39
BitPuffinalthough the LTS is nice when you compile ff from source xD18:39
frinnstyou should try the beta........19:06
frinnstfirefox has looked the same for me for about 10 years19:06
frinnstand now its all broken. i must change how i use it19:07
frinnstso yeah.. rather use 24-esr19:07
nogagplzwould be better still is midori could supplant it entirely19:08
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BitPuffinGot DCd19:42
BitPuffindid anything I type get through?19:42
BitPuffinI guess install doesn't care about -fr19:45
BitPuffinif it's already installed19:45
BitPuffinhow do I rebuild everything in xorg then19:45
BitPuffinI've tried errthin xD19:45
BitPuffindon't really wanna do it one by one19:45
jaegermaybe: cd /usr/ports/xorg; prt-get update -fr *19:50
BitPuffinjaeger: will that skip the stuff in xorg that isn't installed?19:53
jaegerit should, yes. prt-get's 'update' command will say that port X isn't installed19:54
BitPuffinso it will "fail" on those19:54
jaegerit's a brute force method19:55
jaegeryou could always script some kind of "if this is installed, update it" logic if you want19:55
jaegerusing 'pkginfo -i | grep -q ^port' or 'prt-get isinst port'19:56
BitPuffinyeah true19:57
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jaegerthink they're a little late, seems like systemd is accepted now20:40
kremlin-i cannot escape people talking about systemd on freenode20:41
BitPuffinit's default in suse, debian, ubuntu, the next RHEL etc20:44
BitPuffina bit late20:44
teK__sorrz kremlin-. Just found that url funnz20:44
BitPuffinwell better late than never I guess20:45
teK__oh wow, CRUX is mentioned on that site :>20:46
BitPuffinoh it is20:46
BitPuffin"more like shit stemd20:46
kremlin-i want to get into crux but i'm waiting for what seems like a due release :)20:56
teK__you will be rewarded pretty soonish20:56
kremlin-i'm excited. CRUX has everything i like without the crazy unmaintainability of arch20:57
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BitPuffingot graphics and shit running now21:40
BitPuffinkremlin-: just install and upgrade21:40
BitPuffinno prob21:40
nogagplzjust curious what's the "crazt unmaintainability of arch"?21:42
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BitPuffinokay so I'm working on a port22:23
BitPuffinand I've made a patch for its makefile22:23
BitPuffinit's a git version btw22:23
BitPuffinif that matters22:23
BitPuffinanyways when I run pkgmk22:24
BitPuffinIt gets the error cannot create regular file /home/isak/src/ports/mcwm-git/work/pkg/usr/bin no such file blabla22:24
BitPuffinso what I added in the patch was DESTDIR22:25
BitPuffinand I just did it so that it is $(DESTDIR)$(PREFIX)22:25
joacimcould you show us the Pkgfile?22:33
kremlin-BitPuffin: arch's rolling-release schedule tends to break my system at inopertune times22:35
BitPuffinkremlin-: well crux upgrades are generally not a prob22:38
BitPuffinjoacim: yeah sec22:38
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BitPuffinkremlin-: there is people here who have done successful upgrades for several years22:46
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joacimseems legit enough.22:56
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BitPuffinother than failing at making packages I am loving CRUX. It's the first distro where I feel like I don't have a bunch of shit that I don't need :D23:53
BitPuffinwell I've used crux before23:54
BitPuffinbut I was too unwise back then23:54
prologichow are you failing to build packages? :)23:54
BitPuffinprologic: not building, I'm trying to write Pkgfiles for mcwm and emacs :D23:55
BitPuffinI managed to upgrade to xorg to crux 3.1 and I now have OpenGL 3.3 core profile support. And 3.3 is as high as my GPU can go. So feeling pretty good about that23:56
BitPuffinprobably missing some extensions though but meh23:56
prologicYes :023:57
prologicWell that's all about getting to know your software :)23:57
prologicWhilst many of us are experienced in such matters with various software23:57
prologicGoogle is your friend :)23:57
prologicconfiguring and building and getting your port right is fun :)23:58
prologicor painful23:58
prologicwhichever way you look at it :)23:58
BitPuffinI like it23:58
BitPuffinIn fact I even get a little kick from stripping down the kernel as much as possible :D23:58
BitPuffinprologic: however with emacs it depended on giflib, so I installed the port for that but then it said it couldn't find libungif or something23:59

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