IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2014-05-07

abyxcosSo... they started using bsd names?00:09
abyxcosExcept they made it all crazy-like.00:10
abyxcos(For anyone who doesn't use bsd, bsd assigns driver_name:slot_id, so you get ral0 or ath1, etc.)00:11
diverseI have no problem with eth* and wlan*, but if they are going to do that change, at least follow the way OpenBSD does it... Of course Lennart is not a bsd guy, figures...00:12
diverseabyxcos: I read about it00:12
diverseabyxcos: does that also apply to FreeBSD also?00:13
abyxcosdiverse: I believe all BSD's do it (at least netbsd does the same.)00:14
abyxcos(I think OSX does it also.)00:14
abyxcosIt's the same system harddrives use roughly.00:14
abyxcoshda, sda, xhda, etc.00:14
diversewhat's xhda?00:15
diverseoh is it USB?00:15
abyxcosDunno, have one on my VPS.00:16
abyxcosProbably scsi or some net-mounted virtual device.00:16
diversescsi would be sda. I don't know why Linus decided to merge the hda devices (ATA) into the sda device, but it is what it is.00:19
abyxcosProbably to make tutorials easier.00:20
abyxcosI do find it nice when everything is sd*, but it can be confusing on mixed device systems, and doesn't outweigh the gains of laziness.00:20
prologicit's already here guys00:25
prologicCRUX 3.1 ships with a version of udev that does this00:26
prologiccaught me by surprise a bit00:26
diverseoh okay, so eudev managed to keep up with systemd-udev changes00:26
abyxcosUgh, so I should install 3.0?00:26
diverseabyxcos: you could if you want, but I have a feeling 3.1 is going to come in a few days00:27
abyxcosMeh, probably just kill off udev. Won't be using it.00:28
diverseabyxcos: you can look at mdev00:28
abyxcosMeh, linux-utils provides /bin/ln still.00:29
diverseheh, however you want to go about it :)00:29
diverseI'm thinking of trying out finit to replace sysvinit00:30
abyxcosAs opposed to rc.conf?00:31
diversecompared to the alternative inits00:31
abyxcosIf you haven't used it, gentoo's openrc is a nice init.00:32
abyxcosIs that a picture from
diverseprologic: btw, what are your device files called now?00:34
abyxcosI actually know one of the gentoo devs on the eudev project, maybe I can convince him to re-do that network device logic to follow bsd.00:38
diverseyou mean the network device naming?00:41
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diverseargh, using number 4, in which case the MAC address, as a way to name a network device is insane00:51
diverseHere is my slogan00:56
diverseRedhat: the company that complicates while it obliterates00:57
diverseadmin1: "What device file is causing this network problem?" admin2: "Oh, I think it's the device file en790Afdas90fbd9sd890f7c8a1548dafa1890!"01:06
diversehow pragmatic /facetious01:06
abyxcosJust look in /dev/net-adapter-by/by-uuid/`echo "piss off" | md5sum`01:08
diverseabyxcos: plus these are just names? It doesn't matter how we follow their approach anyway, right? So the eudev devs can do it their own way01:12
abyxcosI hope so. I suspect software will just start enumerating /dev/net-adapter-by/by-id/* or something.01:14
abyxcosI don't follow systemd closely; I only tune in when Poettering makes a dumb comment about BSD and regret that opensolaris doesn't have pci passthrough yet.01:15
diverseabyxcos: did you get to flame him really good? :)01:16
abyxcosNo, I don't use that mailing list, and all of my friends at Redhat refuse to piss in his coffee.01:17
diversedamn :(01:17
diverseabyxcos: what do your friends at Redhat do there in the meantime?01:19
abyxcosKernel maintenence and openstack work.01:20
abyxcosNot his department/division.01:20
abyxcosHowever, none of his work effects me, so I don't really care.01:21
diverseLiving the BSD life? :)01:21
abyxcosUnforteantely, no.01:22
abyxcosI need a few linux drivers.01:22
abyxcosAnd kvm.01:22
abyxcosI just don't use gnome.01:23
diverseI don't think many of us use gnome, expect one or two here use MATE01:25
abyxcosMy setup is more like a server enviornment with a graphical terminal attached.01:27
abyxcosNo hotplugging strange devices all the time.01:27
abyxcosAnyway, I'm off /01:27
nwehas someone got this problem afre upgrade chromium and trying to start it? [0507/] Check failed: base::i18n::InitializeICU().01:33
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timcowchipdon't use chromium and it would take me to long to build then test02:01
timcowchipPrologic said he made a google-chrome port that works with downgraded libgcrypt02:02
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nwetimcowchip: why I need libgcrypt is spotify needs it.. :/02:05
timcowchipyou probably shouldn't downgrade it then02:12
nweso I will downgrade chromium then02:12
nwetimcowchip: I mean libgcrypt version 1.5.302:13
timcowchipthen prolgics google-chrome port should work02:13
timcowchipon yesterdays irc log frinnst mentions that chromium won't work for him on 3.102:16
nwetimcowchip: I just downgrade chrome instead.. but now time to try to sleep again..02:21
timcowchipok, gn nwe02:24
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prologic3.1 comes with eudev03:10
prologicwe got that in at least03:10
prologicbut yeah it does have the latest udev stuff from 197+03:10
diverseprologic: could you give a sample of what your device names look like?03:11
diverseI hope it doesn't resort to MAC address names -_-03:12
prologicone sec03:14
prologicbtw finit looks rather interesting03:15
diverse"enp3s0"? Yeah that's a predictable name /facetious again03:17
diverseprologic: yeah, finit looks nice and the config is pretty KISS too03:17
diversehmm, they didn't change the storage drive names, they kept the sd* scheme. tty* also stays the same03:22
diverseprologic: I guess the focus is just on network device files, huh?03:24
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jaegerdiverse: yes, it's predictable because it matches the physical location and won't change03:56
jaegeras always, though, if you don't like the new scheme you can disable it03:57
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prologicjaeger, what does "enp3s0" actually represent thougH?06:03
prologicthis is the bit I couldn't find and justify06:03
prologicthat article I linked to was a bit rubbish too ihmo06:03
prologicI've not really ever had a situation where a machine rebooted06:03
prologicand the network devices changed on me06:03
prologicso not sure where that's come from06:03
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openfbtdYou can disable the crazy net interfaces naming in eudev06:33
openfbtdAh. It has been said.06:34
prologicI don't actually have a big problem with it06:35
prologicit just took me by surprise is all06:35
prologicjaeger, perhaps we need to include this in the Release Notes? :)06:35
prologic(if not already)06:35
prologiceverything else was just as smooth with crux as it's always been06:35
openfbtdI have eth* in my system because the eudev aur pkgbuild comes with that06:36
openfbtdBut yeah, I don't understand the outrage concerning enp*06:36
openfbtdThere are much worse problems in systemd/udev06:37
openfbtdLike the core concept06:37
prologicas it so happens apparently I maintain lzop (requried by the make install target of the kernel)06:38
prologicseems like I've done this before maybe :)06:38
prologicit wasn't outrage :)06:38
prologicI was just merely pointing to a document I found on the subject06:38
openfbtdThere was an outrage at the point when the change was introduces06:39
openfbtdPeople were flipping their shit06:39
prologicyou mean elsewhere on the net06:39
prologicI just want to understand why it's better06:40
prologicI'm not seeing that06:40
openfbtdWell the fact that they are predictable might have something to do with it06:40
openfbtdI don't see why eth* couldn't be made predictable06:41
openfbtdBut hey06:41
openfbtdI'm not Kay.06:41
openfbtd(Thank Chaos for that)06:41
prologicyeah no that was my point06:41
nwegood morning06:41
prologica) I've never seen a situation where a reboot changes the order of eth*06:41
openfbtdI have.06:41
prologicb) I don't understand how the new scheme is more predictable06:41
prologicc) what it actually means06:41
prologicre a06:42
prologicI can certainly see how it *might* happen06:42
openfbtdMy new PC has a marvell device on the mb and a separate net card because THE MARVEL ONE DOESN'T FUCKING WORK06:42
prologicif you probe a bunch of network cards06:42
prologicand one of them responds before the other06:42
prologicasynchronously perhaps06:42
openfbtdBut they were changing places on almost every reboot06:42
openfbtdUntil I tied their names to their macs06:42
prologickind of my ponit b then :)06:43
prologicyou can fix the unpredicable nature anyway06:43
prologicbrb have to reboot06:43
openfbtdAnd I don't really understand why can't you just create those rules automatically06:43
openfbtdOH WAIT06:43
openfbtdYOU CAN06:43
openfbtdBoth udev and eudev have that functionality in them06:43
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openfbtdIf you enable the thing, you get your interfaces neatly named eth* with their names being tied to their macs06:44
openfbtdAnd that makes the change even more weird06:44
prologicRomster, figurred out why slim wasn't working07:07
prologicas it turns out enabling a boot logo in the kernel07:08
prologicand therefore framebuffer at startup07:08
prologiccasues slim to well just not work07:08
prologicreally weird :)07:08
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Romsteroh how weird08:02
Romsterguess it's a frame buffer conflict prologic08:03
frinnstindeed since its just another X session08:03
frinnstprologic: still have your amd/ati card? you should give it a try with 3.108:03
frinnstworks great :)08:03
Romsterlast time i tried ati i was not impressed08:04
Romsterand that was like a year ago with a brand new card08:04
Romsterthat i borrowed from the shop08:04
frinnstyeah southern island support took a while to get right08:04
Romsterwas to new and not supported08:05
frinnstthey are just two guys or something from amd08:05
frinnstit was also a pretty big shift in how they handle 2d08:05
Romsterwonder how many guys at nvidia does linux08:07
Romsterthough they use the same binary blob as in windows no?08:07
frinnstyeah pretty much08:07
Romsterjust a different wrapper around it08:07
frinnstand you get shitty integration with X08:09
frinnstit still doesnt do xinerama, right?08:09
Romsternever tried08:09
Romsternever crashes on X on single head at least08:10
Romsterif only ATi picked up08:10
frinnstit works flawless for me now. though i dont really use any 3d stuff, except for 2d/glamor08:10
frinnst2d and video acceleration is all i need :)08:11
Romsteri guess anything the driver/card can't do is done by the CPU no?08:11
frinnstand i dont use it on a laptop so i dont know how the power management stuff works08:11
timcowchipif I dbus-launch spacefm, I can use the mountshare plugin to mount cifs shares08:24
timcowchipsame with dbus-launch gigolo08:24
timcowchipcouldn't do that on 3.008:25
timcowchipif so, then I'm lovin' the eudev08:26
timcowchipheard about this on today's kernel panic podcast08:31
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diversetimcowchip: dbus-launch is part of the dbus package, has nothing to do with eudev.08:40
prologicfrinnst, ahh no :) waste of my time and energy :)08:45
prologicI'm not pulling this desktop apart just to try a failed card :)08:45
prologicalready did that last night to replace it's dead SSD :)08:45
prologicperhaps sone of you wanna buy the card off me :)08:46
diversejaeger: yes, it's more predictible for the machine, not for the user. I know I can disable it, doesn't mean I'm not allowed to state my opinion about it. Also my machine has 2 of same NICs onboard, will it be predictable even then? Or will it have to resort to MAC address naming? /me shivers08:46
prologicit's still sitting here08:46
prologicsome $200 card08:46
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diverseanyway, I'll just have to see what it does for me08:47
prologicwhat re the network interfaces?08:54
prologicprobably similar08:54
prologicit's not that big of a deal for me08:54
prologicbut I still don't get it :)08:54
diverseprologic: the idea is to prevent data races from labeling nic cards differently each time you boot. Both of mine are the same intel model.08:57
diversebut just because it's machine friendly, doesn't always necessary mean human friendly, so pick your poison. Which is more important?08:58
prologicyeah yeah no I get the why08:58
prologicjust not the naming schema08:58
prologicfind me some details on that :)08:58
prologicas a counter example08:58
prologicI regularly use MikroTik RouterOS devices08:58
prologicthey're basically commercial linux boxes08:59
diversethis is what abyxcos pasted earlier, based on what it does08:59
prologicwith custom hardware the company builds themselves08:59
prologicthey're great little networking devices, routers, firewalls, gateways, etc08:59
prologice.g: cisco equivilent in functionality witout the price tag08:59
prologicand their network devices?08:59
prologicthey are tied (I presume) to the hardware itself08:59
prologicso their order _never_ changes08:59
prologicand they're normally named after the type with a numbner09:00
prologicether0, ether1, etc09:00
prologicwlan0, wlan1, etc09:00
prologicyeah no09:01
prologicthat's the article I linked to09:01
prologicit doesn't explain the naming schema :)09:01
prologic    Names incorporating Firmware/BIOS provided index numbers for on-board devices (example: eno1)09:01
prologic    Names incorporating Firmware/BIOS provided PCI Express hotplug slot index numbers (example: ens1)09:01
prologic    Names incorporating physical/geographical location of the connector of the hardware (example: enp2s0)09:01
prologic    Names incorporating the interfaces's MAC address (example: enx78e7d1ea46da)09:01
prologic    Classic, unpredictable kernel-native ethX naming (example: eth0)09:01
prologice.g ^^^09:01
diverseyour right, it just explains to the role09:01
prologicthis doesn't quite explain it at all really09:01
prologicvery vague09:01
diverseheh, eno for onboard, ens for hotplug slots, and enp2s for geographical. So it's not about what the devices are called by drivers, it's about their location :P09:05
prologicthat was really odd09:08
prologicX just crapped out on me09:08
prologicand forced me to reboot09:08
prologicand then now slim doesn't work again09:08
diverseso I guess for me, I will have eno0 and eno1, but what differences does that for me compared to eth0 and eth1?09:08
prologicwtf is going on09:08
prologicI've had to login to a tty and startx again09:08
diverseYou had an X crash?09:11
diverseThose are the worst...09:13
diverseprologic: so how did that impact slim?09:14
prologicgod only knows09:18
prologicit doesn't work again now09:18
Romsterow do i setup asound.conf to send audio to 2 different cards? one is stereo the other is 5.1 is this possible.09:20
prologicI think so09:20
prologicbut you may want to use jack?09:20
Romster kinda but not exactly what i require.09:20
prologicno experience myself though sorry09:20
prologicmy PC(s) normally only come with one sound card :)09:20
Romsteri've used mutliple cards but to make sound go out both... preferably without jack for my girlfreinds pc09:21
Romsterit's got a on board card but she has a 5.1 headset that is usb.09:21
Romsteri tried making the headset as default slot 0 but that fails. i thin usb stuff loads later on that the hda_snd_intel09:22
nogagplzoh nice romster, playing the ladies09:23
nogagplzis this one local?09:23
Romstershe wanted to be able to switch between each to use and not all programs have a option to choose.09:23
Romsterover the net sadly, would like her local :D09:23
diversenogagplz: Romster has been a player way longer than you think :P09:23
nogagplzbe carful, I think longer than you realise09:24
diverseheh :)09:24
Romsternogagplz, sits in his room with the magazines09:24
nogagplzRomster: is this the same one as before or a new challenger09:24
Romstersame one as before depends on who your thinking of.09:24
nogagplzand while it's a strange way of going about it, yes I do call my left hand magazine sometimes09:24
nogagplznever knew her name, but circa 200709:25
diversenogagplz: those magazines are for looking at WM porn?09:41
nogagplzWM porn?09:42
Romsterwindow manager porn?09:43
diverseRomster: yes09:43
Romstershow us your screen shots :D09:44
diverseyou know, nogagplz's secret stash of pics from Arch WM screenshots thread? ;)09:44
nogagplzactually I don't know, what stash09:44
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Romsterhis sister probably found nogagplz's stash09:45
diverseand threw them away, what a shame09:45
nogagplzhey hold on a minute, why am I the one being grilled here09:46
nogagplzwhen you, diverse, beat off furiously to building chromium09:46
nogagplzand Romster prides himself on looking like a 70s porn star09:47
diverseI don't use chromium :P09:47
Romstertoo bad drijen wasn't here to join in09:47
Romsterchromium never beat off to that09:47
nogagplzwho are you kidding, drijen probably broke his hip after falling off the toilet again09:48
Romsternow that prologic said about some google API key needed for chromium bugger that.09:48
nogagplzyeah what are browsers coming to09:48
Romsterrape my ass API keys09:49
diversenogagplz: becoming more and more like operating systems in which one day, they will take over your systems09:49
Romstermust get codes to unlock features.09:49
Romsterwhat a joke09:49
nogagplzwell I notice the about of web content I care about keeps receding09:49
nogagplzso hopefully by the time that happens I won't care enough to keep one around09:49
Romsterit all went underground09:49
diverseactually wtf is the point of Firefox OS anyway? ...oh, for smartphone/tablet GUIs. Good, more android competition.09:51
diverse"Written in HTML5, CSS, JavaScript..." eww09:52
Romsterwhy cna't andrid be more linuxish so more linux apps can be ported.09:55
Romsteroh that's why vender lock in09:55
diversewell they could, they just need to be able to port them to work with Java's and Android's JNI, which is pretty complicated09:56
Romsteryeah why so complicated.09:57
diversebecause Java happened09:57
Romstershits me09:57
nogagplzyou have an iphone don't you Romster10:04
diverseI thought he had a Samsung Galaxy S3?10:05
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frinnstfirefox os is kinda cool. if you just use firefox on android you can install firefox-os apps10:25
diversefrinnst: how easy is it to port apps to it?10:26
RomsterSamsung Galaxy S3, i'm no mac fag10:28
frinnstno clue10:28
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diverseRomster: looks like I guess right?10:53
diverseteK__: -4?10:59
teK__= /4 = swtich to window 411:00
teK__oh boy :)11:00
teK__[0507/] Check failed: base::i18n::InitializeICU().11:00
teK__+ chromium wont start11:00
diverseteK__: someone had that same error message earlier... was it nwe?11:01
diverseyep, it was nwe11:01
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prologicre Google API Keys11:37
prologicI guess the point is Chromium is the open source version of Google Chrome11:37
prologicat least afaik11:37
prologicbut you can't use any google services (i.e: Sigin In with Google...) for sycning bookmarks, tabs, etc11:37
prologicwithout it either a) being Google Chrome11:38
prologicor b) getting api keys and registered your chromium based product11:38
prologicwhich kinda means to use Chromium the way you'd have used Google Chrome11:38
prologicyou'd (we'd all) have to get separate google api keys11:38
prologicmaybe crux gets some and ships with the port?11:38
nogagplzbetter yet crux disavows chromium and rides off into the sunset11:39
Romstera game even prologic would like11:43
z3brahow much does it cost ?11:44
z3bra(hello btw)11:44
Romster$19.99 USD early access11:45
z3bradid you try it ?11:45
Romsterand works in linux too.. but not relaly my mind of game thought or prologic when i saw it.11:45
Romsterlo z3bra11:46
z3braseems expensive though11:48
Romsterit does11:54
jaegerdiverse: it's predictable for the user, too.12:44
jaegerdiverse: if you have 2 of the same NIC they will still be in different physical slots, maybe even on a different chipset depending on the motherboard12:44
jaegerso one of them might be enp0s1 and the other enp0s2 but they will always be that way12:44
jaegerprologic: an example of where the device names can change is a cloned VM - the clone will have the same type of NIC but with a new MAC address12:45
jaegerthere are other situations but that's the one that I run into frequently12:45
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frinnstteK__: i had that error too12:56
frinnston two 3.1 machines12:56
frinnst<3 firefox-esr :)12:56
teK__well I prefer fixing 1 compilation/config glitch over a shitty guy and stuff so I'll stick with chromium12:58
jaegerprologic: regarding what the name actually represents you'd have to look at the source to find out for sure, I guess. It's probably something simple like: en == ethernet, p0 == pci/pci-e bus 0, s1 == slot 112:59
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jaegerso theoretically you should be able to look at the output of lspci or dmidecode or similar and always be able to guess what the device name will be13:00
jaegerfor example: 0b:00.0 Ethernet controller: VMware VMXNET3 Ethernet Controller (rev 01)13:11
jaegerso bus number "0b" and device number "00"13:11
jaegerthe device name ends up being enp11s013:12
jaegerob (hex) == 11 (dec)13:12
jaegerer, 0b (hex)13:12
jaegeranother example: pci 00:19.0 -> enp0s25 ... 19 (hex) == 25 (dec)13:14
jaegerthese are both from actual 3.1 installs for what that's worth13:14
z3braGuys, I'm planning to replace SysV by an init script I'm gonna write by myself13:16
z3braHow will the distro react if I delete rc.conf, rc.multi, and such ?13:17
teK__things will break.13:17
z3brawhich one ?13:20
teK__no services would be started, to start with teh obvious issues13:20
jaegerrc, rc.single, rc.multi, and rc.shutdown are called by init as defined in inittab... which is a sysvinit thing... so if you replace sysvinit and handle booting with your own scripts I imagine it would work fine13:21
z3braOh, the init system I plan to replace sysV with will do that13:21
z3brajaeger, that's my question...13:21
jaegerI have not tried it myself but it seems doable13:21
z3braBut maybe some obscures scripts that do obscure things may use rc.conf and such13:22
jaegersomeone in here was talking about running a minimal init replacement recently13:22
z3braSomebody actually use this13:22
z3braBut it uses the default CRUX init script13:22
z3braAnd I plan to refactor them13:22
z3brajaeger, sinit maybe ?13:23
jaegerJackLFrost I think13:23
openfbtdI run sinit these days13:24
openfbtdBut spark is perfectly fine too13:24
z3braalong with default crux scripts ?13:24
openfbtdI've done that before, yes13:24
z3bra(well, modified version)13:24
openfbtdYou don't need to modify the initscripts.13:24
z3braI know13:24
z3braBut I plan to use something like minirc13:25
openfbtdYou only need to do that if your service manager is also different13:25
z3brawell, I though service manager was just scripts in /etc/rc.d13:25
openfbtdTrue, CRUX doesn't have a service manager13:26
z3braSo I just wanted to know if all those /etc/rc.* where a dependency for something else than sysV13:26
openfbtdYou could look at my rc btw: :313:27
z3braBecause my targeted system will have: /sbin/init, /etc/rc, /etc/rc.conf13:27
z3branothing more13:27
z3brathanks for the link13:28
z3brakinda like yours in fact :P13:28
openfbtdbeware that it currently has a hardcoded killall5 binary path currently :D13:29
openfbtdI should probably just use the one from PATH.13:29
z3braI see ^^13:29
z3braAnyway, I'll just rewrite it from scratch as a learning exercise13:30
openfbtdThat's easy enough to do, yeah13:30
openfbtdThe boot sequence of a linux system is really rather simple if you don't try to do stupidly fancy things with it13:31
openfbtdFixed the killall5 thing13:31
openfbtdIt was a mistake commit due to the fact that I don't have a killall5 in my PATH13:31
openfbtdBecause Arch is dumb13:31
z3braYeah that's simple, but I still want to learn the whole process (spawning ttys, and such)13:32
openfbtdsystemd forced me to learn it and implement my own tools. And it was a great learning experience13:33
openfbtdSo go for it :313:33
z3brathat's exactly what's happening13:34
z3brasince systemd I see so many init systems pop everywhere :p13:34
jaeger <-- I like this, very simple13:42
z3brajaeger, that's what I plan to use :P14:07
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openfbtd this is cool14:44
openfbtd +
openfbtd...inside a screen14:45
openfbtdBut that's just because I was testing14:45
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frinnstlokks interesting14:49
z3brahow is abduco better than dtach ?14:59
openfbtd>abduco is in many ways very similar to dtach but is actively maintained, contains no legacy code, provides a few additional features, has a cleaner, more robust implementation and is licensed under a BSD style license.15:00
openfbtdFrom the site15:00
z3brayeah I read this15:00
z3braBut I see no list of the `additionnal features'15:01
openfbtdI've never used dtach, so can't tell15:01
openfbtdI've been using creen for ages now15:01
z3brathere is -c to create a session, and -a to attach15:01
z3bradtach haz it too15:01
z3brasame for detach key / redraw15:01
z3braI used screen too15:02
z3braand then, tmux15:02
z3branow, I'm more of a dtach guy ^^15:02
z3braah, thanks15:02
openfbtdWell, having an actual multiplexer is also nice15:03
z3braI have tmux installed, don't get me wrong15:03
openfbtdI'm sticking with screen for the time being because I have an irssi instance in it15:03
z3braBut I only use it when connected remotely15:03
openfbtdAnd am too lazy to restart it15:03
z3bramy irssi session is running in dtach :P15:03
z3bra(there is a single app, no need for multiplexing :P)15:04
openfbtdAnd will probably only switch to anything else only when it's time to reboot my main host15:04
openfbtdBut yeah, I'm thinking it would be cool to reverse the whole thing15:04
z3brauptime ?15:04
openfbtdMultiplex and attach apps inside the frames15:04
thetornainbowi have a persistent irssi in screen as well :)15:04
openfbtdNot the whole multiplexer15:05
z3braI should start diggin' dvtm15:05
z3brabut yeah, dtach is nice15:06
z3braNo need to remember a lot of binds15:07
z3brajust ^\15:07
thetornainbowhmmmm perhaps i should look into dtach. i never use screen or tmux enough to remember all the various binds, so i end up only remembering Ctrl-a/b ? for the help15:09
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joacimi've used dtach in the past, but now that i use weechat, i need a window for links pasted on irc15:21
joacimweechat breaks long urls15:21
z3brabye all !15:23
thetornainbowsee ya15:25
thetornainbowi hadn't heard that about weechat15:26
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BitPuffinthetornainbow: well it is because it will move them to the next line so you can't copy them I guess15:38
thetornainbowoh, for some reason i thought he meant it broke urls as in, cannot use15:39
thetornainbownot sure why i thought that15:39
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: dokuwiki: 2013-12-08 -> 2014-05-0516:06
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: unrar: 5.1.4 -> 5.1.516:06
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: dokuwiki: fake commit for testing purposes16:10
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timcowchipdiverse: I know what dbus-launch is and does17:51
timcowchipwhat I was saying is that it now works with eudev, where it didn't work with udev17:52
timcowchipby works, I mean gigolo and spacefm can now connect to and mount cifs shares on the network when started with "dbus-launch"18:05
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horrorStrucki was reading the logs, workaround for the chromium icu issue, build it with -Dicu_use_data_file_flag=019:55
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prologicjaeger, thank you for that btw :)21:16
prologicI guess I was too ill and tired to figure this out :)21:16
prologicbe nice if someone documented this behavior somewhere :)21:17
prologicmaybe we should on our wiki (may as well)21:17
prologicbut it does sort of make sense now that I think about it after reading what you said :)21:17
prologicthe naming scheme that is21:17
jaegerI for one like the new scheme21:25
diverseso the idea is to be consistent not just with interface, but where the bus is on the board for said device, based on info from lspci?21:34
jaegerNot based on lspci but actually based on the bios/pci enumeration as far as I know21:34
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diversethe bios enumeration would be for the onboard stuff?21:36
jaegeranything on a pci bus, not specifically onboard21:38
diverseso mine will always be "en6s0" and "en9s0"?21:45
diverse "enp6s0" and "enp9s0" I mean21:46
jaegerenp6s0 and enp9s0 I think21:46
abyxcosStill sounds like a pain :P21:47
jaegerhow so?21:47
abyxcosHow do bridges and so forth get handled?21:48
abyxcosWe still gonna get br*, or are those being renamed too?21:48
jaegerI doubt that udev will mess with a bridge since it's created by the user (or script or whatever)21:49
jaegeryou'd just add enp6s0 and enp9s0 to br0 or whatever21:49
abyxcosI'm worried about when the fallback takes effect. That sounds like some rather stupid failure cases, rather than shorting early to the eth0 path.21:50
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jaegerWhat do you mean?21:51
jaegerAre you wondering what happens when one of the devices in the bridge fails?21:51
abyxcosAccording to the spec, if udev hates you, you can end up with eth[mac_address].21:51
abyxcosNow as to whether the code actually matches that doc...21:52
jaegerAs far as I understand the docs the MAC address scheme is the only one disabled by default21:52
diverseyay \o/21:52
abyxcosSo next question, what exactly is wrong with the eth* scheme, or even the bsd scheme with drv*? The document wasn't really clear how this benefits over calling things ral0 and athw2.21:54
jaegerOne example that has annoyed me in the past is a machine with multiple NICs with different manufacturers21:55
jaegerfor example, an intel NIC using e1000e and a realtek NIC using r816921:55
jaegerIf both are compiled into the kernel as builtin or modules, which gets loaded first and gets assigned eth0?21:55
jaegerYou can force the issue by making one builtin and one a module and loading the module after boot or some other similar ridiculous hackery21:56
jaegerwith the new scheme it doesn't matter which is loaded first, their physical location doesn't change without you changing it21:56
abyxcosOn bsd, you'd get a in0 and a rt0 (or rtk0? What does realtek call their driver these days.)21:56
abyxcosOf course, you'd still have a race for ath0 if you have a few ath cards.21:57
jaegerem0 and re021:57
abyxcosI'm not sure how they handle that without looking.21:57
diverseor in my case, two of the same intel nics21:57
diverseso the positioning is pretty sound21:57
jaegerIt depends on your needs. Some users undoubtedly won't care, some users will want the old scheme, and some users (like me) will want the new scheme21:58
abyxcosOr the group of us who like the bsd way :P21:59
jaegerwell, there's always bsd :)21:59
abyxcosWho also don't want all harddrives named sda1.21:59
jaegeror udev renaming21:59
diverseso "p" is for position and "s" is for slot?22:01
jaegerpci and slot, I think22:04
jaegeras in the number of the pci bus22:04
abyxcosWhat do they call usb cards?22:05
jaegerno idea, haven't looked into that22:05
diversewhy would you need to access the usb card directly?22:13
diverseor other cards besides nics?22:13
abyxcosI was thinking about usb wireless cards, and what kind of idiocy one could expect in their naming.22:17
abyxcosI don't have much faith in the systemd developer(s.)22:18
jaegerwell, usb has bus and device numbers so a similar scheme could be used22:18
diverseabyxcos: I think it would get the same enp?s? treatment22:19
abyxcosdiverse: Unless it gave enu?s?.22:19
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diversejaeger: if you plug in a usb wireless adapter, does that get added to the lspci list?22:28
jaegerno but there's also lsusb22:29
diverseah right22:29
diversejaeger: so would this be considered a `hotpluggable` interface?22:31
diversewell it's not pci, so screw that anyway.22:32
diverseabyxcos: I don't know, I'm lost at this point.22:32
abyxcosI don't actually care, I just don't expect much out of it.22:33
diverseenu?s? sounds reasonable to me, don't know if it's true22:33
abyxcosMany reasonable sounding things haven't made their way into systemd, I don't hold my breath.22:34
abyxcos anyone wanna make a port?22:34
diverseabyxcos: talk to the old timcow man about that22:35
timcowchiplkqt? sure22:35
diverseyou might as convert to lxqt from razor-qt22:35
timcowchipabyxcos: have you tried razor-qt?22:36
abyxcosIt'll be my weekend project a few weekends out, but I just saw the release.22:36
abyxcosOn xfce now, but I'm not a fan of gtk3.22:36
abyxcosAs I understand, it's closer to lxde, but in qt.22:37
abyxcosRazor felt like a very stripped down KDE.22:38
diversegtk3 has already fallen to the waste side, so avoid gtk3 at all costs, imo22:38
timcowchipsame on github, bunch of individual sources22:44
timcowchiprazor-qt comes in a bundle22:44
timcowchipso it would a bunch of ports for lxqt, I suppose22:44
timcowchipit will take me awhile, but I'll do it22:45
abyxcosNo hurry, I won't be able to test it for a while.22:46
abyxcosAnd if you don't get to it, I'll probably give it a start.22:49
abyxcosYou'll probably see me in here complaining about strange QT-related dependencies.22:49
diverseabyxcos: I rant here all the time22:50
abyxcos(At least when I'm awake,) most of the chatter in here seems to be related to other projects.22:51
diverseyeah, true, a lot of times, interesting stuff gets brought up22:54
abyxcosLike how systemd is going to give me headaches the next time I need to do internet.22:56
diversewell that's the negative side23:00
abyxcosIt's positive to learn about it now, because the next time I hit that would have been a lot of cursing.23:00
diversewe usually flame and trash systemd often (but at the same time we will respect other Crux users' choices, even if it looks like jumping off a cliff)23:01
abyxcosI'm more likely to hit that on redhat or debian boxes.23:01
abyxcosThe only problem with bsd-inspired systems is I tend to get even more out of touch when crap like this rolls down.23:02
abyxcosWe use a lot of (corporate) linux at work, so I'll be hitting some of that eventually.23:03
diversesounds like living in a bsd system would solve all of your problems though23:04
abyxcosLikely be standing at a console trying to understand the systemd manpages.23:04
abyxcosWork won't let us switch, something about supporting customer software against our platform.23:04
diversepolicy sucks doesn't it?23:05
abyxcosAt least I'm not the poor guy stuck writing the windows drivers and tooling.23:05
diversethat guy probably doesn't care though23:07
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abyxcosNo clue, never met him. I don't touch windows at work.23:10
abyxcosFor all I know, he's locked in the basement ;)23:11
abyxcos  old openbsd post about compilers, still an interesting read.23:16
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prologicit’ll grow on me too jaeger23:32
prologicI’m not midning it much at all really23:33
prologiconce configured you do kinda forget about it23:33
prologicdiverse: bridges are unrelated23:33
prologicas they are normally virtual devices23:33
prologicusually an operator creates them23:33
prologicor some process (e.g: docker and it’s docker0 bridge)23:33
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