IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2014-05-22

BitPuffinI see00:00
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prologicBitPuffin: yes that’s right. Although I’m more in favor of normal development + Dockerfile for deployment, testing and production releases00:12
prologicBitPuffin: sounds like you’re missing something to do with the tty/pty (console) in your kernel config00:13
prologicsome pty module thingy00:13
prologicdouble check the config with the provided tool00:13
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BitPuffinI did double check :(00:21
BitPuffinping also returns -100:22
prologicpaste me the output?00:31
prologic# egrep PTS .config00:32
prologicI seem to recall requiring this config00:32
prologic# /usr/share/docker/ | grep PTS00:32
prologic# /usr/share/docker/ | grep missing00:33
prologic    - CONFIG_AUFS_FS: missing00:33
prologic$ docker run -i -t crux crux00:33
prologicCRUX version 3.000:33
prologic$ uname -a00:33
prologicLinux daisy 3.12.17 #7 SMP PREEMPT Fri May 9 18:04:48 EST 2014 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K CPU @ 3.50GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux00:33
prologicworks as expected here :)00:33
prologicis this on your dekstop or server?00:33
prologicdo you even use a crux desktop?00:33
jaegerbro, do you even crux?00:43
prologicwtf :P00:44
prologicare you okay jaeger ? :)00:44
prologicQ: What do you call someone that uses CRUX?00:44
prologicA: A Cruxer :)00:45
prologicQ: What do you call a person who’s CRUX system has broken?00:45
prologicA: Cruxified :)00:45
prologicDo some work!00:45
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jaegeroh look, another subjective argument on the mL01:05
jaegerML, even01:05
jaegerdo people understand what the fucking word 'subjective' means anymore?01:05
jaegerglad that a couple people didn't take it so seriously01:06
BitPuffinwell check_kernel blabla tells me I'm ready to rock and roll01:12
BitPuffinso it needs patching?01:12
BitPuffinI do have crux on my desktop and laptop as well01:14
BitPuffinbut this is on server01:14
BitPuffinhowever I'm also using a mac01:14
BitPuffinwhich I use most of the time01:14
BitPuffinjaeger: what's the thread?01:15
BitPuffinprologic: rebuilding kernel to have that shit01:15
jaegerNEW user / thank you / XFCE01:15
BitPuffinoh they are still going?01:15
jaegerwell, I hadn't checked my email until now. it ended a few hours back, looks like01:16
openfbtd>I didn't even know Arch was CRUX-based01:16
openfbtdExcept it wasn't01:16
jaegerWasn't it originally? It certainly isn't anymore, it's changed a lot.01:16
openfbtdMaybe spiritually.01:16
BitPuffinthe unicorn thing?01:16
BitPuffinWell it basically stole a bunch of stuff01:17
BitPuffinbut it never used crux tools01:17
openfbtdIdeas are not things you can steal.01:17
BitPuffinwell such as the package format01:17
openfbtdIdeas are worthless.01:17
BitPuffinwell excuuuuuuuuse me princess01:17
openfbtdThey made a distro based on a lot of the same ideas.01:17
openfbtdThat's not a reason to used a charged word like “stealing”01:17
jaegermay be more fair/correct to say "inspired by" but does anyone honestly care?01:18
jaegerarch and crux both have their niches01:18
openfbtdAnd they even credit CRUX in their wiki.01:18
BitPuffinagain with the subjective stuff01:18
BitPuffinI used the word steal as "took the idea from crux"01:18
openfbtdIn modern English, stealing has a very definitive negative meaning.01:18
BitPuffinmeh not necessarily01:18
BitPuffinI've heard people say many times like "oh nice, I'm gonna steal that!"01:19
BitPuffinabout ideas and designs etc01:19
jaegercontext is important, of course01:19
BitPuffinyeah lal01:19
openfbtd>Well it basically stole a bunch of stuff01:20
openfbtdCame across pretty negative.01:20
BitPuffinwell relax arch lover, I wasn't being negative01:20
openfbtdI'm far from being an arch lover01:20
BitPuffinI don't even know why you are bothering to argue01:20
openfbtdMy systems are arch-based and use arch's tools, but calling them Arch Linux would be... weird.01:20
BitPuffinprologic: still the same result :/01:21
BitPuffinwhatever :)01:22
BitPuffinprologic: maybe I should try building the kernel so that everything outputted by lxc-checkconfig is enabled01:23
openfbtdI really need to fix fonts in dwb01:23
BitPuffincould possibly help I dunno01:23
BitPuffinError running container: cgroup mountpoint not found for cpu :/01:23
BitPuffinanyways heading to werk01:24
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prologicYeah Arch _was_ based on the idea of CRUX a long time ago01:43
prologicBut sure it’s nothing alike _now_ :)01:44
prologicBut at least their PKGBUILD files are mostly compatible with our Pkgfile(s) :)01:44
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xvee_Hey guys I installed elilo but the command isn't there. I created the elilo.conf file, but not sure what to do02:12
xvee_Is the command something other than elilo?02:13
jaegerelilo doesn't install an ELF executable02:13
xvee_Oh crap.02:13
jaegerit installs elilo.efi which goes into your ESP02:13
xvee_So I have to edit that?02:13
prologicwtf is ellio?02:13
prologicefi stuff? :)02:13
prologicriiight :)02:14
jaegerlook at the wiki, there's a UEFI page02:14
prologicI will :)02:14
prologicI’m sure I’m going to run into this one day02:14
jaegerI meant that for xvee_ really but couldn't hurt02:14
xvee_Hm. Gentoo says run elilo, so I assumed it would be the same02:18
xvee_Google time02:18
openfbtdHas anyone encountered an issue where some fonts in lightweight browsers like dwm look awful?02:21
openfbtdi.e. github looks horrible02:21
jaegerperhaps it wants a font family you don't have installed?02:24
openfbtdI've installed a shitload of fonts just to be sure02:25
openfbtdgithub wants monaco, then liberation etc02:25
jaegerhrmm, not sure then.02:25
openfbtdBoth are installed02:25
jaegerI'm not any kind of expert on web stuff or fonts02:26
thetornainbowopenfbtd: arch wiki says you need to modify your fonts.conf for dwb. my github looks great on dwb after doing it02:26
openfbtdthetornainbow, and that doesn't work for me02:27
thetornainbowtoward the bottom "Fuzzy font in Github"02:27
thetornainbowopenfbtd: really?02:27
thetornainbowworked for me just fine02:27
thetornainbowwhat about your gtk theme?02:27
openfbtdShow me your ~/.config/fontconfig/fonts.conf02:27
openfbtdUm. I currently have Numix02:28
openfbtdBut changing it doesn't do anything02:29
thetornainbowthat's mine02:29
thetornainbowi only ask about your gtkrc-2/3 because i know my fonts looked a bit odd with dwb until i got the font size settled in wherever you keep your gtkrc's, $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/gtk-3.0/settings.ini or .gtkrc-3.002:31
openfbtdYeah, seems like I did everything right02:31
thetornainbowbut that's just my two cents. :) Sorry i can't be of more help02:32
thetornainbowalthough my only beef with dwb at the moment is i can't seem to get certain html5 videos to play, like on Linux Action Show's website. i've installed every gstreamer plugin, flash, blahblahblah, but nothing happens when i click the play button02:33
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openfbtdUgh. gtk configuration is weeeeird02:38
thetornainbowopenfbtd: amen to that02:39
openfbtdNah, still shit fonts02:39
openfbtd#archlinux is, as always, no help02:39
thetornainbowhaha, this could be like #archlinux if you'd like02:40
thetornainbowdid you RTFM openfbtd n00b?02:40
thetornainbowthere. much more archey now02:40
openfbtdNah. #archlinux just ignores complex questions02:43
thetornainbowoh just noticed you posted on there not too many minutes ago02:44
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dodobirdshi everyone03:32
dodobirdsi have a problem with port forwarding, im using kernel Crux 2.8 x86 with iptables version 1.4.1503:33
dodobirdsI'm having two WAN ppp0 and ppp103:34
dodobirdsip_forward is "1"03:34
dodobirdsbut whenever i trid to port forward 80 from WAN into my NAT (LAN machine) it doesnt work03:35
dodobirdsit's working fine when im using only one ppp03:35
dodobirdsthis is my iptables rules03:36
dodobirdsiptables -t nat     -i ppp0 -A PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 80   -j DNAT --to iptables -A FORWARD -i ppp0 -p tcp --dport 80 -j ACCEPT03:36
jaegerwhen you bring up ppp1 does it become the default route?03:37
dodobirdsi've made script if two ppp up it will loadbalance03:37
dodobirdsip route replace default nexthop dev ppp0 weight 1 nexthop dev ppp1 weight 303:38
jaegerhrmm, not sure there. I'd guess a routing issue (return) since it works when you use just one WAN link03:39
dodobirdsthis is my complete routing with iptables
dodobirdssome value using variable but i think you'll get the point03:43
dodobirds$DEV1 = ppp0 and $DEV2 = ppp103:43
jaegerit looks ok to me but my iptables skills are basic03:43
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dodobirdsthat's ok thx for the respon tho03:45
jaegerif you wait around for a while perhaps someone else will know03:45
dodobirdsi hope so :)03:45
jaeger <-- perhaps of some use, it has a section on multiple internet connections03:47
BitPuffinprologic: so, I think we should build in something where you can quickly fork a port03:48
BitPuffinand do pull requests03:48
BitPuffinif a port is out of date and/or broken etc03:48
BitPuffinand then someone can look and see that there is forks of this port since someone marked it as out of date etc03:48
prologicand wb03:53
prologicis your docker paltform working now? :)03:53
BitPuffinno :(04:07
openfbtdWell. I fixed _some_ of my font problems04:10
openfbtdGithub and some other dites are still ugly04:10
openfbtdFonts are confusing :(04:10
prologicBitPuffin: want me to take a l ook?04:17
BitPuffinprologic: sure, but how?04:18
prologicI’ll mail you my ssh key04:19
BitPuffinwell that's alright04:19
BitPuffinI'll just change my password temporarily04:19
BitPuffinI'll just create a user for you04:20
prologicnothing to gain :)04:21
BitPuffinwell you probably don't need root :)04:21
BitPuffinif you are only reading04:21
BitPuffinwell you are gonna have to run the bash command manually04:23
BitPuffinforgot the -s flag04:23
BitPuffinI'll pm you04:23
BitPuffindoing the key stuff would be unnecessary since I haven't set it to key only logins yet04:25
BitPuffinI will do soon04:25
BitPuffinI just need to get my sync going04:25
prologicBitPuffin: ta04:39
prologicyou’re missing a bunch of stuff04:39
prologicI just realized as well04:39
prologicI seem to have upgraded my own Docker to 0.11.104:39
prologicbut didn’t update the ports04:39
prologicI thought I did but I must have forgotten to commit and push04:39
prologicso going to have to redo that tonight04:39
prologicso you’re on 0.11.1 too04:39
prologicbut I’ve copied the latest/greater check-config-config into /tmp04:39
prologicfix your missing stuff04:40
prologicand at least 0.10.0 will work for you04:40
prologicI’ll update the contrib ports tonight proper04:40
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BitPuffinI'll have a looksie06:06
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prologicgod damnit06:09
prologicI have a couple of vms here at work that I’m trying to get upgraded to Docker 0.11.106:09
prologicand some stupid firewall is being a PITA06:09
prologicd’oh :)06:14
prologichostnaems are wrong06:14
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BitPuffinprologic: weird, AUFS_FS doesn't even show up when I search for it07:15
prologicthat’s because it’s no part of upstream kernel07:16
prologicit has not been accpeted as a file system for mainline kernel07:16
openfbtdprologic, thanks for reminding me!07:16
BitPuffinand it's optional?07:16
prologicwhy do you think I don’t use it :)07:16
prologicyes it’s absolutely optional07:16
prologicsince Docker 0.7.x07:16
prologicactually I think it’s always been optional07:16
prologicbecause they started out with aufs or devmapper storage backends07:17
prologicbtrfs came later 0.8.x something07:17
BitPuffinyeah that's how I remember it as well07:17
prologicopenfbtd: what locally?07:17
openfbtdI run docker containers on my main dedi07:17
openfbtdIt was still running 0.907:18
prologicso not a crux docker platform :)07:18
BitPuffinif it works now I will shit myself07:19
BitPuffinand I'm at work so it will be really bad07:19
BitPuffinprologic: it dun werk ;_;07:22
BitPuffinand now the script is gone because I rebooted XD07:22
prologicI’ll login in when I get home and help you fix it :)07:23
prologicopenfbtd: got any nice tools or things ou use to help manage things? e.g: shipyard something home brewed?07:23
prologicI’ve played a bit with shipyard but still not happy with it - just tried the least stuff and well it just fails mierably07:23
prologicI’ve had more success with e home-grown skydock+skydns+hipache setup with some custom bash scripting to help amange it07:24
BitPuffinprologic: do you need special configuration to use devmapper?07:24
prologiclvm stuff07:24
prologicbut otherwise no07:24
prologicjust hang :)07:25
prologicI’ll leave work and head home07:25
BitPuffinI meant with docker :P07:25
prologicand check out your system again07:25
BitPuffinthanks! :)07:25
prologichelps me improve the port anyway07:25
prologicif there’s anything obvious missing in the ports07:25
prologicI don’t think there is07:25
prologicI’ll also update the ports to 0.11.107:25
BitPuffinwould be lxc in that case, which I have installed07:25
BitPuffinlooks like things are more green there07:26
BitPuffinvlan missing07:26
BitPuffincgroup cpuset missing07:26
BitPuffincgroup sched missing07:26
BitPuffinand User namespace missing07:26
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frinnstthere has been loads of security issues with that in linux07:45
BitPuffinwell that's to be expected in the early days I guess07:46
BitPuffinplus, they are not supposed to get in anyway, so at least it is one more layer that they have to break in to to access other stuff07:47
BitPuffinI wonder when they were introduced07:48
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: wine: 1.7.17 -> 1.7.1909:23
cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: cmus: 2.5.0 -> 2.5.109:37
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frinnstHalt and catch fire looks like an interesting show10:23
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: p0f: 3.06b -> 3.07b10:40
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: rdesktop: 1.8.1 -> 1.8.210:40
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: openvswitch: 2.0.0 -> 2.1.210:40
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: dokuwiki: new tarball10:40
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: ack: port taken10:40
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: filezilla: 3.7.3 -> 3.8.010:40
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: libev: port taken10:40
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: iw: 3.14 -> 3.1510:40
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.0]: tinyxml: port taken10:40
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nwehas someone get nm-applet to work?12:52
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rexichpeople, systemd is getting bigger and bigger, it's just sad:
prologicoh wow13:28
prologic1/2 million loc?13:28
prologicgood  bloody lord13:28
prologicall this for device management and process magnement13:29
rexichyes, 1/2 million and counting, wtf13:29
prologicI'm blown away13:29
prologicthat's truly remarkable13:30
rexichit's becoming its own OS of sorts, haha13:30
prologicit's actually more complex and much much larger than a full minimal esktop environment13:31
prologicthat's just insane13:31
rexichI don't understand WHY on earth device management and service management needs so much code13:33
prologicI'm not entirely sure myself either13:33
rexichbtw, CRUX 3.1 will switch to eudev, right?13:33
prologicI mean the kernel actually does most if not all device management anyway13:34
prologicudev and such just do a little more13:34
prologicmappings, permissions13:34
prologicdoes udev do anything else really?13:34
prologicyes CRUX 3.1 already has13:34
prologiceudev is a Gentoo fork of udev13:34
prologicbefore the systemd+udev abomination afaik13:34
rexich(e)udev reacts upon device insertion/removal and calls scripts, me thinks?13:34
prologicI think for us it was either going to be eudev13:34
prologicor mdev13:34
prologicahh yes13:35
prologicevents on devices13:35
prologicthat's the only other thing it does13:35
prologicwhich btw largely I don't use :)13:35
prologicI've never (yet) even wanted to have automount13:35
prologicand such13:35
prologicI kinda find it a bit silly and useless anyway13:35
rexichI use it for activating my power saving service whenever my laptop gets off the power net13:35
prologicnot to mention it's a potential sercurity risk13:35
rexichI mount everything by hand, lol :D13:36
prologicsame I always have13:36
prologicif I wanted to mount it I would have13:36
prologicnot before13:36
prologicin any case13:36
nweprologic: so you recomend to remove udev and install eudev ?13:36
prologicthen systemd13:36
prologicall it really does is spawn proceses13:36
nweprologic: on my 3.1 system13:36
prologicwith a kernel syscall ffs13:36
prologicperhaps it also does some supervision13:36
prologicand has an api13:36
prologicnot really sure it does anything more than that either13:36
frinnstsooo hot13:36
prologicnwe, are you upgrading from 3.0 to 3.1?13:37
nweprologic: I have upgrade from 3.0 -> 3.113:37
nwevia ports13:37
prologicthen yes I would remove udev13:37
prologicas it looks like we can no longer ship or support it13:37
prologicsince it's not tightly integrated with systemd13:37
prologicthe udev that used to be is now eudev afaik13:38
rexichwhat is the difference between mdev and eudev?13:38
prologicat least Gentoo are trying to ensure that13:38
prologicI think mdev is from the Busybox/Buildroot guys?13:38
prologicit's different yet again?13:38
prologicstatic device management? no smarts?13:38
prologicnot 100% sure :)13:38
prologicgood for embedded systems iirc13:38
prologicI could be wrong13:39
prologicmaybe I'm thinking about some other dev mgmt13:39
frinnstmdev is not very nice on a modern desktop13:39
prologicI was right :)13:39
prologicit is from the busybox guys13:39
frinnstii ran it 2 years or so ago. it was like being back in -9813:39
prologicthere's the primer on mdev13:39
frinnstwith a static /Dev13:40
prologichow was it not so nice?13:40
prologicwhat didn't it do for you?13:40
frinnsthotplugging, and no module automagick loading. I guess i've become lazy :)13:40
prologicI'd actually be fine without that13:40
prologicI could live with mdev tbh13:40
frinnstsure you can get used to it13:41
rexichi need module autoloading for USB drives :(13:41
frinnstbut iirc it did feel like stepping back in time and not in a good way13:41
prologicwell how often do you plug a usb stick in?13:41
prologicreally :)13:41
rexichand my usb webcam13:41
rexichevery day, actually13:41
prologicyou can just compile it in13:41
frinnstprologic: quite often actually13:41
prologiceasy as :)13:41
rexichit is compiled in13:41
rexichin my kernel, that is13:41
frinnstbut no device nodes will be created when hotplugging13:41
prologicthe last time I used a usb drive was a few weeks ago13:41
prologicso not that often for me :)13:41
rexichno device nodes? that sucks13:42
prologicyou'd have to create them by hand13:42
frinnstit does, but you have to initiate it13:42
prologicor have them precreated13:42
frinnstit does during boot and if you run some command to force it13:42
frinnstbut this is just me talking from memory (and im senile)13:42
frinnsti can and probably are, quite wrong :)13:43
prologicit's probably not as bad as you remember13:43
prologicor busybox guys wouldn't still keep using it and maintaining it :)13:43
frinnstwell obviously it is very useful for some usercases13:43
prologicanyway long live eudev :)13:43
frinnstbut i'd rather not run it on a desktop13:43
rexichso, eudev it is13:44
rexichif I get tu upgrade 3.0 -> 3.1, should I remove udev before installing eudev, or will the setup script do all the stuff?13:44
prologicif you do an upgrade from the iso13:46
prologicyes it should13:46
prologicwe (well jaeger, frinnst and co) normally adapt the setup script to take care of removal of packages that are redundant13:46
prologicas my desktop was a brand new 3.1 install I avoided that step :)13:47
prologicmy ssd died :(13:47
rexichmy condolences about your ssd :(13:56
rexichi've downloaded the 3.1 ISO once the e-mail arrived but haven't tested it yet13:56
rexichwill do this weekend13:57
prologicthanks but no losses :)13:57
prologicbackups backups backups :)13:57
joacimNo backups here. I love the rush from living on the edge14:00
jaegerthe crux install ISO uses mdev14:03
rexichjoacim: i'm living on the edge as well. haha :D14:05
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prologiccrazy :)14:10
jaegerI don't like to live on the edge. I even borrowed a 2TB drive from work stock for this week while I wait for a replacement drive for my NAS :P14:14
jaegereven though I have backups as well14:14
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joacimdoes btrfs have features that can be used for backups?14:15
joacimthinking about getting a second 3TB drive so I can clone my main data drive14:15
jaegerperhaps snapshots could be used in that fashion14:27
prologicsure but as long as you keep them on that drive14:30
prologicand don't back then up14:30
prologicsnapshota != backups14:30
joacimrsync or something would probably be good enough14:31
jaegerand easier14:31
rexichrsync <314:38
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frinnstsnapshot is good for backup retention and versioning15:04
frinnsti run btrfs on my backup box. currently i just rsync data over and let a cronjob sort out the retention15:04
frinnstyou can also send subvolumes/snapshot (diffs) via network15:05
jaegerI do something similar with ZFS. Snapshot the filesystem, copy the new data from the remote host15:07
jaegerprune snapshots after 30 days or whatever15:07
rexichprologic, I like the scripts, thanks15:08
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thetornainbowi feel official now! first crux install on my desktop, kernel panic! so odd that HDDs need to be enabled to be read from :)15:37
thetornainbowyeah... turns out SATA drives can't read themselves. WHO KNEW?15:42
thetornainbowyeah i've been messing about with CRUX in a VM, decided to carve out honest to goodness HD space15:44
rexichhaha :D integrate the SATA/IDE drivers INSIDE the kernel, do not make them as modules16:03
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: scite: update to 3.4.218:37
cruxbot[core.git/3.0]: e2fsprogs: force make -j118:43
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retardis there any intended mechanism for distributing ready-built binary packages between computrons?20:11
jaegerpkg-get may be what you want20:12
retardit is indeed! thanks :D20:12
nwewhere in the kernel can i find asix driver?20:13
nweI cant find it I have try to search after it with /20:13
jaegerwhat kind of device is it?20:13
nweapple usb ethernet20:13
jaegermaybe try "asix usb ethernet linux" in google?20:14
jaegerthat'll probably tell you what chipset it has which might be how it's listed in the kernel20:17
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retardi am planning on submitting a repo to the ports collection tomorrow20:25
retardis there a preference for the syntax of the comment lines? keeping capitalization, format of maintainer etc?20:26
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nwejaeger: now I found It, I had remove it from the kernel :P20:27
hlaveryprologic: docker works fine with the kernel config bits you posted for BitPuffin earlier...thanks!20:29
jaegerhow odd20:31
nwejaeger: do you have any idea about this.. I have update udev to eudev.. and thats works fine, but now when I adding my apple-usb ethernet adapter udevd renamed network interface eth0 to enp0s20u220:47
nwewhy does it rename it too so odd name..20:47
nwecd jaeger I fixed it :) mv out 80-net-name-slot.rules from /lib/udev/rules.d/20:53
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teK_you are invited to read ;)21:07
jaegernwe: that is the new default upstream (udev) behavior, not a crux-specific thing21:08
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retardoh shit21:15
retard(it has hit the fan)21:15
retardi have been dreading this21:15
retard is the most ironically titled page i know of21:15
jaegerWhy do you say that? It's accurate21:17
jaegerIf your NIC is enp0s11 once it will always be enp0s11 unless the physical location of it changes21:18
retardbecause the actual thing that will happen is that i will take one of the servers i admin, yank out the one-port card, plugin a new four-port card21:18
retardand be unable to just plug the cable into the first port and expect it to come up21:18
jaegerYou can, of course disable this new behavior if you like. With that said, if you are physically installing a new NIC, you are there at the machine anyway and KNOW that a change is being made. It's far from unexpected.21:19
retardi have an expectation that eth0 is the first ethernet port, and that i can rely on this even if i happen to replace a flaky realtek card with a more stable intel card21:20
retardor disable the terrible onboard card because i am inserting another card21:20
jaegerIf you *need* it to be 'eth0' then disable the new behavior. Just keep in mind you'll need to pay attention to which one actually is eth021:21
jaegerIt will always enumerate in the same direction on that 4-port NIC but if you don't know which direction that is the first time you plug it in...21:21
retardin all instances i have encountered, left to right with the circuit board down21:22
jaegerIf you already know that and what to expect then that's fine21:23
retardexcept now it's not true21:23
retardand i will in reality be completely unable to predict the device name21:24
retardwhen i am, say, ordering it21:24
jaegeryou should still be able to predict it21:25
frinnstwell you can call it whatever you want, just create a udev rule21:26
jaegeror just disable the behavior as the docs suggest21:26
frinnstwhat does other unices call their nics? i know bsd name them per driver21:27
retardprovided i am familiar with things like the confirguation of the firmware of the chip on whichever brand of nic i am purchasing, the topology of the motherboard, the way the bios enumerates the pci slots21:29
jaegerprologic: <-- this answers the question(s) you had about what the bits of the new name actually mean21:29
retardthis will be fun21:29
retarda number that may or may not have been incremented following a three letter string is to me far more predictable than a name that can be the result of a long list of different factors21:36
retardmost of which are at best difficult to anticipate21:38
retardrendering the "predictable" bit severely ironic21:38
retardifconfig -a isn't that hard, i will get over it and all, but21:39
retardthe weird strings this system seems to shit out are a very very long way from predictable to me21:40
jaegerThe list is neither very long nor hard to anticipate in my opinion, but I can understand that people don't like it21:40
jaegerif you poke around with lspci or in the /sys tree you can figure out your PCI bus' enumeration and know exactly which device goes where21:40
jaegeren == ethernet, p0 = pci bus 0, s20 = slot 20, u2 = usb port number21:41
retardand if i stick a network card in my computer without poking around lspci or /sys i can reasonably expect it to be ethX where X is a number between 0 and the number of ethernet ports in the machine minus one21:42
retardi see your point21:43
jaegerYou cannot guarantee which number it will be, though, without knowing some prior information21:43
retardbut in my reality this will be a humongous clusterfuck21:43
jaegerI guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel the difficulty of both methods is roughly equal21:43
jaegerthis is of course my opinion and you are free to not only disagree but to disable the new feature :)21:43
retardthe bsd way is far more reasonable to me21:43
retardthat will not be an option, sadly21:43
retardi will have to get used to this21:43
jaegeryou could even make udev rules to approximate the bsd way21:43
retardmuch like i will have to get used to systemd21:44
retardbecause of my chosen career path21:44
retardand because i don't sysadmin in a vacuum21:44
retardand because noone will ever remember to connect to the computer, enumerate the pci bus, somehow figure out how that maps to the physical slots and/or be familiar with the specific firmware (or even chip) of the nic they are plugging in21:51
retardalternately: connect to the computer and modify the udev rules so that they have a shot at predicting what the device name will be21:52
jaegerkeep in mind that's only necessary if you plan to change the hardware quite often21:52
jaegerotherwise you can log in *once* and check the device name21:52
retardbut if you don't change hardware very often, how is this beneficial?21:53
jaegerIt's beneficial if you change hardware at all but NOT very often, I think21:53
jaegeror to look at it from another perspective, most users won't really care once it's set up21:54
jaegerespecially using dhcp where you often don't even need to know the device name to start the dhcp client21:54
retardmost system administrators are in an entirely different boat21:55
retardparticularly those that actually handle hardware21:55
jaegerGuess you just have to decide for yourself if you need to do it a different way21:55
retardwhich is me21:55
retardamong others21:55
jaegerI do as well and it doesn't bother me, frankly. My use cases don't require changing said hardware often at all21:56
jaegerOnce I've installed the physical hardware it's rare that I have to change a NIC or whatever. More common is replacing a failed drive or DIMM21:56
retardsince freedesktop has made it so i will have to suffer the consequences anyway21:58
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jaegerWhy couldn't you just disable it?21:59
jaegerIf you're the sysadmin anyway21:59
retardbut escaping this particular brand of what in my eyes constitutes supreme bullshit is part of the reason why i migrated to crux21:59
retardi am not the only sysadmin21:59
retardand i do not have life eternal21:59
retardand on occasion i get drunk or sleep or go on vacation21:59
jaegerWell, feel free to take it up with the systemd/udev folks. It came from upstream22:00
retardcrux has been my escape from the systemd path22:00
retardi do not want to take anything up with those folks22:00
jaegerThen you're back to disabling it, living with it, or using something else22:01
retardi will have to live with it22:01
retardbut it will suck22:01
retardthe attitude of "you are able to reconfigure the behaviour" is very far from being any actual help though22:03
retardsystemds ability to replace everything under the moon sees the same defence22:04
retard"but you don't HAVE to"22:04
jaegereudev seems to be the best of the non-full-systemd options available, for what that's worth22:05
retard"you can keep running acpid/cron/sysklogd/inetd/insert foo here"22:05
retardyeah, my beef is not at all with crux, but upstream22:06
retardi am tilting at windmills22:06
jaegercarry on, then, don quixote22:06
retardit is just frustrating as hell, as while i get to escape some of the madness some of the time it will eventually necessarily catch up with me22:06
prologicretard, you're welcome22:07
jaegerI suppose all that prior stuff from me is to say I don't think it'll be as much of a pain as you say but perhaps I'm wrong22:07
retardprime example22:07
prologichlavery, great :) welcome to the dark side :)22:07
prologicjaeger, thanks :)22:07
prologicmorn'n all22:07
retardprologic: while i am undoubtedly supremely grateful for whatever deeds you have done i sadly have no idea what they are22:08
retardenlightenment would enhance my gratitude even further22:08
prologicretard, re the backup scripts I cobblged togtehre from my ~/bin/ ?22:10
prologicthe most important and interesting one is runbackup22:10
retardprologic: are you sure you're not mistaking me for someone else?22:10
retardi might be mistaking myself for someone else though22:10
prologicI was just respdonid to the backlog22:11
prologicall good22:11
prologicgotta get to work22:11
jaegerrexich, not retard22:11
retardokay, i have no idea about any backup scripts22:11
retardhave a nice day!22:12
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.0]: chromium-pdf: 33.0.1750.152 -> 34.0.1847.13222:59
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