IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2014-07-20

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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.1]: jasper: update dependency libjpeg -> libjpeg-turbo04:11
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Romsterhttp://crux.ster.zone/gitstats/04:30
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.1]: dependency rename libjpeg -> libjpeg-turbo09:26
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: dependency rename libjpeg -> libjpeg-turbo09:29
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.1]: harfbuzz-icu: 0.9.30 -> 0.9.3210:05
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.1]: harfbuzz-32: 0.9.30 -> 0.9.3210:06
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cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.1]: xorg-libxi-32: 1.7.3 -> 1.7.410:18
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.1]: gtk-32: 2.24.23 -> 2.24.2410:18
cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: wine: 1.7.21 -> 1.7.2210:36
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: update missed dependency rename to libjpeg-turbo10:54
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.1]: update missed dependency rename to libjpeg-turbo10:58
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.1]: thunderbird: use system libjpeg-turbo12:04
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Romstermongodb compiling takes 23GB beat that firefox P13:18
frinnstwow13:18
frinnsthm i did build mongodb once. dont remember it being that big13:18
Romsteryeah it's insane.13:18
frinnstor maybe i just blocked it out for my own sanity's sake13:19
Romsterthink its got some debug stuff enabled still.13:20
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frinnstheh i remember when i enabled nostrip in pkgmk.conf and forgot about it13:23
frinnstlibxul.so was 1.5gb or something13:24
Romsteroops13:24
Romsterprotoo.13:24
Romsterprobably took ages too load aswell13:24
Romsterman i'm swaping that badly i'm losing text.13:25
Romsterwhere is this locking bug13:25
frinnstwhat?13:25
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Romsteri'm swapping to swap space due to this compile in tmpfs.13:25
Romsterand when it gets to heavy linking with more threads it locks up my desktop.13:26
frinnstah13:26
Romster642 processes atm13:26
Romster 23:26:48 up 18 days,  8:59,  1 user,  load average: 18.89, 23.71, 23.9613:26
Romsterand this is only a 4 core.13:27
Romsterto top it off i got multiple swap partitons on different disks with same prio= so it acts like raid013:29
Romsterbut this is the first time i've nearly ate all my swap up ever.13:29
Romster8gb of ram just arn't cutting it anymore.13:30
frinnstnope. I have 8gb in box box at work. its barely enough13:31
Romsterwhen i say 23GB i mean sources compiled objects linked libs binaries and then the archived file of the package all residing in the one area.13:31
Romster8gb used to go far13:31
Romsteri may as well head for 32GB the next time i upgrade. not worth it for this machine only has ddr213:33
Romsterwonder how much longer for ddr4 mobos13:34
Romsterthere making the ram already13:35
q5sysi would be happy if 32gb DDR3 dimms didnt cost as much as a kidney13:37
teK__340EUR is not extortionate13:40
teK__imho :)13:40
q5syshttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682023942513:40
q5sysfor 100$ more I can have 64gb (4x16)13:40
q5sysGranted Ive got 16 dimm slots on my board... but most people dont.13:41
Romsterxeon board?13:41
q5sysyup13:41
q5sysrunning dual E5s13:41
Romsteri was thinknext mobo for this desktop13:41
Romsterthose things fly13:42
q5syshttps://www.asus.com/Commercial_Servers_Workstations/Z9PED16/13:42
q5sysI got the model with just 2 nics... i didnt need 413:43
_odieman, what you guys doing on your workstation13:44
_odierecompile world? :D13:44
q5sys_odie: im a puppy linux dev... so I do a lot of compiling and then VM testing.13:45
_odiesure, VM's forgot about that13:45
q5systhats why I got a board that'll max at 512gb ram13:45
q5sysbut only if I use 32gb dimms13:45
_odiebtw. what VM base do you use? qemu kvm?13:46
q5sysi dont need that much... for what I do vbox or vmware are sufficient.13:46
q5syssince Im starting them up and shutting them down so quickly13:46
_odieah ok13:48
frinnstoh my god. I started reading an old cdrkit/cdrtools thread written by schilling13:48
frinnsti think it just gave me a stroke13:48
frinnsthttps://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-legal-list/2009-June/msg00012.html13:48
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Romsterid go a xeon not that fussed about ECC ram though14:00
Romsteri wasn't aware your a puppy dev q5sys14:02
Romsterso we have puppy gentoo and frugalware devs in here.14:02
q5sysRomster: learn something new every day. :)14:02
teK__frinnst: oh you are a fan of Joerg 'coredump' Schilling, too?14:02
Romstercrux must be more popular than i expected14:02
q5sysright now ive got 2 16gb ECC and 8 4gb ECC dimms loaded14:03
Romsteris ecc really worth it?14:03
q5sysfrom what I understood Its required with the Xeons I went with14:03
Romsterthe board i was looking at didn't require it but it could be used.14:03
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RomsterJoerg Schilling with his own make system because he reckons gnu make is buggy14:04
Romster_odie, you haven't seen i got over 300 ports i crux.14:05
q5sysI started out with a set of 2620 Xeons... eventually ill upgrade to some of the 2687s... once they arent 2 grand a piece14:06
Romsterfrinnst, was that when cdrkit came about?14:07
Romsteri've jsut been using amd quad cores and a distcc cluster but i'd like a serious desktop and still can't weigh up if ecc is worth it.14:08
q5sysfor desktop/workstation use... its probably not a big deal14:09
q5sysproduction server... then id say yes14:09
q5sysI make pretty heavy use of ramdrives... so I figured It'd probably be a benefit14:09
teK__http://cr.yp.to/hardware/ecc.html fyi, Romster14:10
RomsterMissing features are a typical result from decoupling from the main stream development.14:11
Romster*coughs*14:11
Romsterwhat a load of crap14:12
q5sysmissing features... gnome developers getting involved? :P14:12
Romsterthanks teK__14:12
q5syssorry... bad joke at their expense. haha14:12
Romsterhehe14:12
q5systheir latest icon thing really irks me.14:12
Romster1 bit of ECC is just not enough nowadays why don't they smarten up and use software ECC or some other checksums14:19
RomsterFEC ram?14:19
q5syscause we need another ram standard? :P14:20
Romsterthat is still a very old post teK__14:21
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Romsterperhaps programs should be smarter on detecting inconsistent data14:22
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Romsterq5sys, what brings you here you run crux or just keen on the comunity or like to keep up on the gossip of what we might find in the programs?14:23
q5sysRomster: several things.  One I've known about crux for a while... but ive never used it.  So I'm curious.  Two. I'm one of hte producers of the Linux Action Show and I've been working to get the developers on for a Distro Review and Interview.  Crux isnt well known and Id really like to help promote it through our shows.  Three. well... you all seem nice. :P14:24
Romsterah that show.14:25
Romsteryes we try to be nice.14:26
Romsterand i wish crux had a bit more show time not many know about it.14:26
q5syswell we're going to be doing a review on August 3rd... and then a follow up Developer Q&A on the 5th.14:27
Romstermeanwhile i don't wanna make it like ubuntu how do i do this or that like. we target experienced users or those that are willing to learn.14:28
q5sysright14:28
Romsterwhile we are nice to everyone. it does get old trying ot teach soemone the same things over and over.14:28
q5syswell at some point an individual has to want to learn themselves.14:28
q5sysi dont think every distro should try to spoon feed people.14:28
q5systhats what ubuntu is for.14:28
q5syswhen they want to step up... then they can move on to something better.14:29
Romsterhelping sure but we prefer them to look man pages read google etc then ask if they are still stuck14:29
Romsterthat is exactly how i think too. even the i wouldn't recomend ubuntu to a new user. nor crux for that matter.14:29
Romsters/the i/thro i/14:30
q5syswhat do you recommend for new users?  LFS? ;)14:30
Romsterno way too hard but ubuntu so has moved on, was good but they have changed so much. i've seen way too much hurt in #winehq from ubuntu14:31
Romsterfedora debian suse i dunno anything but ubuntu14:31
Romsterpersonal point though.14:32
q5sysi actually put new *nix users on Mint.14:32
Romstercentos is pretty old versions but stable. gentoo has tons of documentation if they are a bit more adventious14:32
q5sysClem does a good job with it14:32
Romstermint would be better14:32
Romsternot seen clem14:32
Romsteri really havent' looked into puppy linux but i know it exists14:33
q5sysclem is the core dev of Mint.14:33
Romsterah14:33
q5sysPuppy is kinda an oddball.  We do everything sideways.14:34
q5sysI gave a talk about it at South East Linux Fest... looking forward to when it gets uploaded so I can share it with people.14:34
_odiei think with the new release the most critical point got sorted out which was failure in building the right kernel modules14:34
Romsterthis is the thing i see with everyone, whats good for a server, a firewall, a desktop and my answer is crux. i mold it for every job i need. only install what is required.14:34
Romsteryeah we got alot of kernel panics from those that could not figure out the right modules for there disk controller.14:35
_odieor they build it as a module (like me :)))14:35
Romsteri'm keen on all this sideways stuff.14:36
Romsterhehe14:36
_odiebut with the predefined config file14:36
_odieits monkey-like easy14:36
q5sysRomster: here's a quick rundown.  Run entirely from RAM.  utilize a layered file system so every change the user makes gets saved into a single file (for easy backup and restore).  Ability to run off a USB and be used on multiple computers.14:37
Romstersee we used the kernel as a filter. if they can't get past that they aren't good enough to run crux *runs*14:37
Romsteri'm kidding. but it did deter a few.14:37
Romsteri got stuck on the kernel too, when i was new.14:37
Romsteri had help.14:38
Romsteri forgot the boot flag on the root partition too.14:38
Romsterq5sys, ah that's not that unique, cow image?14:39
Romsterdoes it specialize in anything?14:39
Romsteror everything?14:39
q5sysRomster: well compared with your mainstream distros it is.  There are other versions of linux that use the same techniques... but ours and their communites are smaller.14:39
Romsteri had an idea once to only install stuff when you try to run a command you wanted to use and that port was not installed yet.14:40
Romsterusing the kernel's inotify14:40
q5sysour main focus is on reviving older hardware.  I have a Coppermine P3 laptop that I still use today with puppy.  I can do every 'normal' day to day task most people would do without any problems.  Movies, Music, Youtube, Email, etc.14:41
Romsterlets see it work on a i586 i haven't thrown that one out yet.14:41
Romsteralthough i should 450Mhz14:41
q5syswe have a version that will.14:41
Romster384MB sdram14:41
q5sysentire kit and caboodle is 31mb. and requires 4mb ram to run14:42
q5sysand thats with a gui14:42
Romstera entire DE?14:42
q5syslet me get you the link14:42
Romsteri just use pekwm here as a WM14:42
Romsteri was keen to get into packet radio at one point but never bothered to get the gear and the HAM lisence and now i'd rather try for mesh networking, but no other geeks around here i know of14:43
Romsterto mesh network too.14:44
q5sysRomster: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=5147814:48
q5systhe guys main site is timing out right now. :(14:49
q5syshttp://www.goingnuts.dk/linux.asp  <--- is where he keeps all his info14:49
Romsterok my browser is havign a fit -_-15:02
pidsleypuppy was the first distro i used15:03
Romsterthere fixed15:03
Romsteri jumped around a few before settling on crux15:06
pidsleyme too. and you are right about the kernel -- the first thing i ask people when they say they want to try crux is "have you ever built a kernel?"15:07
Romsteryeah15:08
Romstersettled in that much i slowly creeped into port maintainer pretty much everywhere here.15:08
pidsleywell done15:09
Romsterthe sad part is i've been picking up far too many ports, as others have left.15:09
Romsterand now that i'm i full time work. it's a lot harder.15:09
Romstersince given a /few/ away to others. dropped a few as well.15:10
_odiei tried slackware before crux but its a huuuuuuge default install15:10
Romsterits the way of small distros.15:10
Romsteri like the fact we have core just to run it and then if you want X or this or that you depinst on top of that.15:11
pidsleywhat is involved with maintaining ports?15:11
pidsley_odie -- I agree about Slack -- they need a netinstall15:11
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Romsterbeing able to write them. keep the versions updated. testing. check bug tracker for any bugs. check upstream for bugs and any other security vulnerability15:12
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flufflefluHi15:12
flufflefluWhy should I install crux over archlinux?15:12
Romsterand making sure ports work with other ports when you do need to change something. and consider the impact of the change.15:12
Romsterfluffleflu, more control? smaller?15:12
pidsleyah. so much more than just updating the port files themselves15:12
Romsterless hand holding in crux. and easier to mold it to your intended use.15:13
Romsterplus you actually learn how it all works.15:13
flufflefluromster, have you ever used arch?15:13
Romsterpretty much forced to learn or sink15:13
Romsterno15:13
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Romsteri know a few that do.15:13
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pidsleyi have, and i liekd it for a while15:14
pidsley^liked15:14
Romsterwe are one of the few that arn't on systemd15:14
flufflefluwhat did make you change your mind?15:14
Romsterpretty much everything about systemd15:14
pidsleyi wanted more control, and I wanted to learn more, and I like the simple philosophy here15:15
Romsterbloat not needed for such a system we run15:15
pidsleyexactly. i like the init script approach15:15
flufflefluI'll try crux on vb, then15:16
_odietry this: boot standard crux install vs boot standard arch install15:16
_odieand see if "initscripts are slow"15:16
Romsterq5sys, hmm i could possibly have a use for puppy off a usb stick atwork ifit's got testdisk parted and ddrescue available.15:16
_odiebut boot time shouldn't be considered as a go/no-go for either system15:17
Romsterinstead of the system rescue disc. i use currently. i just enver get time to install crux and set it up at work.15:17
q5sysRomster: the latest official release is binary compatibile with Slackware... so any slackware package will work on it.15:17
flufflefluI'm quite a arch fan boy, discovering crux destroyed all my believes15:17
q5sysI know its got parted/gparted.  dont think it ships with ddrescue and testdisk... but thats easy enough to install15:17
Romsterbeliefs?15:17
openfbtd_odie, yeah, my systems now don't use eudev, and they boot really fucking fast15:18
openfbtdDespite the whole boot process being done with bash15:18
openfbtdScripts are only slow if you write them to be15:18
Romsterq5sys, sweet15:18
flufflefluWell, I thought arch was the perfect distro for me15:18
openfbtdWe don't do anything in the bootup process that requires actual speed.15:18
openfbtdYou end up forking a lot anyway15:19
openfbtdSo who cares15:19
openfbtdI do have parallel service starting though15:19
openfbtdIt helps a lot15:19
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Romsterfluffleflu, if you like to tinker crux is it15:22
Romsterah he left15:22
Romsterso your tool chain is the same as slackware q5sys15:23
q5sysyes15:23
Romsterinteresting.15:23
q5sysi think the latest official is 14.0... the latest beta is 14.115:23
q5sysnot really. Puppy fundamentally is a set of shell scripts15:23
Romsteri was expecting libc or musl and clang for the compiler :D15:23
q5syswe can build a puppy out of any distro binaries we want.15:23
Romsteruclib*15:23
q5syswhich allows us to utilize that entire distro's repos without the need for us to recompile everything on our own.15:24
Romsterso you have different flavours depending on what pup a person adopts15:24
q5sysyup15:24
q5syswe have our main official release which all the devs help with.15:25
q5sysbut we each have our own side projects as well15:25
Romsterso basically hijack there ports save all the effort.15:25
Romsteri guess it makes sense for being so small.15:26
q5sysyea there's maybe 15 people who do any work. and by any work... i mean 'ANY' work.15:26
q5syslike... hey I made this package for X program because I needed it.  Here it is if you want it.15:26
Romsterthat's pretty much us with our personal repos15:27
Romstermake stuff because we can.15:27
openfbtdRomster, to be fair, Arch allows as much tinkering15:27
openfbtdIt boils down to ideology and balance between ease of use and (ease of) control with CRUX vs Arch.15:28
Romsterarch probably does but knock up a Pkgfile in 5 minutes in a PKGBUILD file. then again, they have pretty much everything so there is no need too.15:28
openfbtdArch is easier to set up but requires some specific knowledge if you want to do invasive tinkering15:28
openfbtdAnd CRUX doesn't give a fuck15:28
Romsterthat's what i really liek about crux, it never gets in the way.15:29
openfbtdIn Arch the only thing that gets in the way is pacman :)15:29
Romsterso you wanna do this huh, it could wreck something but ok your the boss.15:29
openfbtdYou need to know how to deal with it to do stuff it doesn't like15:29
openfbtdAnd know that, say, removing systemd is a very destructive procedure15:29
Romsteri could imagine. nope i don't wanan remove x because foo uses it.15:30
openfbtdThere's always -Rdd15:30
openfbtdBut you're on your own after that15:30
Romsterbreakage15:30
openfbtdIt's usually better to make an empty package that provides the dependency you've just removed15:30
Romsteri dunno there is probably ways to work around all that.15:30
openfbtdSo that new packages don't try to pull it in again15:31
Romsteri tend to package everything even for a test15:31
openfbtdFor me the biggest problem is the STUPID dependency on systemd for many packages15:31
Romsternothing i hate more than untracked files.15:31
openfbtdBut there are two AUR packages that fix that15:31
Romsterah15:31
openfbtdMy very own libsystemd-standalone and artoo's libsystemd-eudevcompat both provide libsystemd and systemd15:32
openfbtdeudev used to provide systemd, but that was hacky15:32
openfbtdI've convinced artoo that's not a good idea :)15:32
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Romsterah15:33
openfbtdah15:33
openfbtdIt's eudev-systemdcompat now15:33
openfbtdForgot about that15:33
openfbtdaur/libsystemd-eudevcompat is deprecated15:33
Romsterthe name ugh15:33
openfbtdIt's weird, yeah, but it makes sense because it's a package specifically made to be eudev <-> systemd compat in an arch system15:34
openfbtdWhile my package is more of “here, this fixes your deps if you kick out systemd”15:34
Romsterq5sys, i don't supose furries use puppy as well being a puppy mascot.15:34
Romsteropenfbtd, makes sense.15:35
openfbtdAnother difference is that I build systemd from upstream to get the libs15:36
openfbtdAnd he guts the mainline arch package15:36
openfbtdHis approach is faster15:37
openfbtdMine is better :D15:37
Romsterwhat the the dev of puppy forked his own project and is working on quirky15:37
openfbtdIn any case, it's very easy to set up a systemd-less system right now15:37
Romsterright now but for how long before that turns into a pain.15:38
openfbtdYou need some kind of an init, but otherwise: pacman -Rdd systemd; pacman -S eudev libsystemd-standalone15:38
openfbtdOr you can not remove systemd and just not use it15:38
openfbtdWhich is easier15:39
openfbtdThing is, unless mainstream devs start writing their software to hard depend on systemd, everything will be fine15:39
openfbtdAnd if they start doing that, CRUX will also be forced to switch to systemd15:39
openfbtdAs will Gentoo and others15:39
openfbtdLike. If Steam suddently depends on systemd, I'll switch.15:40
openfbtdI want my games >_>15:40
openfbtdsuddenly*15:40
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openfbtdI don't see why would steam ever depend on systemd15:40
openfbtdWhat would be the reason15:40
_odiewell, email? :P15:40
openfbtdYou mean mail gaben and ask him not to do that ever? :D15:41
_odieno, i mean the quote that every program extends its functionality until it can do email15:41
openfbtdah15:41
Romsterugh no not steam15:41
_odiei'm not comfortable gaming on linux anyways15:41
openfbtdDepends on what you mean by “do email”15:41
Romsteri game on linux with steam.15:42
openfbtdIf my script calls /usr/bin/mail, can it do email?15:42
Romstergranted less programs run in linux but the ones that are linux run fine.15:42
openfbtdI game on both native and Windows Steam.15:42
openfbtdWINE is decent these days15:42
openfbtdI remember pre-1.0 WINE15:43
_odiei always have performance issues when on linux15:43
openfbtdShit was bad15:43
_odiewith games15:43
openfbtdYeah, not all devs are comfortable with SDL and OpenGL yet15:43
openfbtdWe are bound to be in a state of flux for a few years till they figure it out15:43
openfbtdSteamBox would force that to be faster though15:43
openfbtdProbably15:44
Romsterwish more of it was native.15:44
_odiecould be the radeon card though :)15:44
openfbtdCould be, yeah15:44
Romsterheck wine even has libwine to help ease writing for linux15:44
openfbtdBut GTC560Ti user here15:44
RomsterGTX15:44
openfbtdAnd I do have lower FPS than reported on similar systems running Win15:44
openfbtdRomster, yes, typo.15:44
_odieso performance is nearly the same on win15:44
openfbtdIn some games15:44
openfbtdIn some games the performance is the same15:45
openfbtdSource games are actually faster sometimes15:45
Romsteri found some games run faster in wine than windows.15:45
openfbtdYeah, that also happens sometimes15:45
openfbtdRarely though15:45
Romsternto as often but i put it down to less stupid services than windows runs.15:45
openfbtdFor example, I had nice and steady 60 FPS in Spec Ops: The Line15:45
openfbtdAnd a guy I know with a 660Ti had 40-5015:46
openfbtdThen tried WINE just to humour me15:46
openfbtdNice and steady 60 FPS15:46
openfbtdThat was hilarious, but also a corner case.15:46
openfbtdThat doesn't happen often15:46
Romstersometimes havng the newest video card on the block isn't such a good thing in linux15:46
openfbtdNvidia is pretty good with updating their drivers for linux15:47
Romsterhaha he was like this is gonna suck and nope steady 60FPS15:47
openfbtdYep.15:47
openfbtdThe Unreal Engine 3 actually runs like a charm on WINE15:48
Romsteri really tried ot get a ATI card to work. but nope too new...15:48
openfbtdIt's a really good engine15:48
Romsterevery single time i borrowed a ATI card brand spanking new nope.15:48
openfbtdYeah, fglrx may take some time before a new card is supported15:48
Romsterstick to linux and there binary blob15:48
openfbtdSometimes it's up to a year15:48
Romsternew card every time nope.15:48
openfbtdEven the binary blob has troubles keeping up15:49
openfbtdAs I've said, sometimes it's a whole year before a card is added15:49
openfbtdAnd it's not even consistent15:49
Romsterseriously a pain. but nvidia's way a wrapper around a common firmware blob seems to be the way15:49
_odiewhich doesn't guarantee all features!15:49
openfbtdThey may skip a card and add a newer one first15:49
openfbtdThen add the one they skipped a year later15:49
openfbtdAnd I'm like15:50
Romsterso can't buy one keep it for a year hope ti works15:50
openfbtdWAT15:50
Romsterit*15:50
openfbtdSo I stick to high-mid nvidia cards15:50
Romstervideo drivers are still a sad state.15:50
openfbtdThe GTX560Ti is a champ15:50
openfbtdAnd only cost me like $15015:50
Romsteri'm still on a gts250 i should upgrade15:50
openfbtdbrb shower15:50
_odiethe openbsd hate on nvidia quite a lot15:51
_odies/openbsd/openbsd guys15:51
Romsteropenbsd hate anything closed soruce15:51
Romsteri'm not a fan of it either.15:51
Romsterbut it's the only decent option that works.15:51
Romsterif only noveaou would work yet15:52
pidsleyoh hey Romster -- you were around when we found out timcowchip is using an Atom 510, weren't you?15:54
Romsterdefinitely15:55
pidsleyjust for the hell of it, i put CRUX on my Atom 410 last night15:55
Romsterexpect a week to sysup15:56
pidsleyit took 35 minutes to build the kernel, and about a half hour to sysup15:56
Romsteri'd use my compile farm over distcc or a chroot to build for such a low powered cpu.15:57
Romsterwell that was on 3.1 right?15:57
pidsleyyes -- i don't intend to maintain it, i just wanted to see how painful it must be for him15:57
pidsleythe 510 is dual-core multithreaded, my 410 is only single core multithreaded15:58
Romsteri remember compiling a kernel on a pentium 2 667Mhz15:58
Romstertook nearly a day.15:58
pidsleywhen i ran Gentoo on my Celeron, I would start updates and go to bed. maybe they were done in the morning.15:58
Romsteryou'd hate to wake up and it errored out.15:59
pidsleyyep.15:59
Romsterman i see a celeron and the first thing i wanna do is smash the cpu with a hammer. there that slow.16:00
pidsleyi saw another core2 for cheap on ebay -- i should show it to timcowchip16:00
Romsterand they still sell celerons...16:00
pidsleynow they have quad-core celerons they use in media machines16:00
Romstercore 2s were pretty good in there day.16:01
Romsteri guess a quad core celeron be on in media but at transcoding forget that.16:01
pidsleyit is still my fastest machine; 7 minutes to build a kernel. this machine is an athlon x2, takes 1016:01
Romsterbe ok in a media center*16:01
pidsleyi should learn how to use distcc16:02
pidsleyi have enough machines16:02
Romsterpretty easy but all machines need to be on the same crux version16:02
pidsleyi can do tht16:02
Romsterthat is the only requirement.16:02
pidsleyhow much difference does it make?16:03
Romsterdepends on the hardware.16:04
Romstermost things big difference. some ports very little difference.16:04
Romsterbutt he majority take advantage of it.16:04
pidsleyi'll just try it with two test machines first16:04
pidsleyanother noob question -- i installed 3.1-rc3, and have updated it regularly. do i need to do anything now that 3.1 is officially out?16:05
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Romsternot really16:07
Romsteronly main difference is kernel on the iso has a patch for a vulnerability. so unless your on a newer kernel series than the iso. your not protected.16:08
pidsleyok; i have a 3.15 kernel16:08
Romsterok your fine there then16:09
Romsteryou'll want to install libepoxy for xorg-server as the iso wont do that.16:09
Romsterfor xorg-server 1.16.0 and then rebuildall the input and video drivers16:09
openfbtdOh btw. Remember watchman? It actually robustly works these days :316:09
pidsleyromster -- i had to do all that yesterday when xorg got upgraded16:10
openfbtdAnd you can ignore the respawn feature anyway (the only used-to-be wonky part)16:10
Romsteri remember it i never went to the effort to try it yet.16:10
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jsebhi, i've some questions about crux16:50
jsebis it only port based, or are there any pre-compilated packages ?16:50
jsebi saw in the documentation «pkg» commands, but couldn't find any list of binary packages on the website16:52
frinnstwe only distribute binary packages on the iso16:56
frinnstbut the result you get from building a port is a package16:56
frinnstso you can build a port on one computer and transfer & install on another16:56
jsebso when upgrading a wide-used lib, like libjpeg for example, you have to recompile everything ?16:59
jsebi ask this, because that's the think that made me leave gentoo17:00
frinnstonly if a library breaks abi compatability and that is rare17:00
frinnstwe usually wait to introduce abi breaking updates for a new release17:00
frinnstso for crux 3.1 we upgraded libpng17:01
jsebheh :)17:01
frinnstand that sucker breaks fucking everything ;)17:01
jsebok, so there's no problem staying on an «older» Crux, then ?17:01
frinnstthe "old" repos are not really supported or updated any more.17:02
frinnstso we dont recommend running old versions of crux17:02
jsebbut if i compile everything (the ports), the system would be kind up to date, wouldn't it ?17:04
frinnstso for 3.1 with the libpng update we provide a lot of packages that are built against the new library. but if you upgrade from 3.0 to 3.1 you will probably have quite a few ports/packages that are in need of being rebuilt17:04
frinnstsince we dont really provide that many packages on the ISO17:04
jsebok… i suppose upgrading crux is interesting for getting new libc, gcc…17:05
nrxtxhi17:05
frinnstregarding the toolchain, it stays pretty static between releases. So we will stay with gcc 4.8.x for crux 3.117:06
_odiethere should be cluster which builds every port for amd6417:08
_odie:D17:08
_odiewould just be a question of money right?17:09
jseband a question of flags :)17:10
_odieoh right17:10
jsebwith ou without sse4 ? sse3 maybe ? avx ?17:10
_odiea sane default17:10
jsebmmx ?17:10
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jsebno match Oo : http://crux.nu/portdb/index.php?q=blender&a=search17:14
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jsebok, see you soon (maybe :) )17:38
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pidsleyok, i got distcc working. i can cut my kernel build time in half if i use both the athlon x2 and the core2duo18:12
pidsleypretty cool18:13
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pidsley /join #linuxbbq19:47
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openfbtdpidsley, we've finished the systemd conversation a while ago btw :)20:27
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