IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2014-09-10

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Workster_http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/09/10/08/56/qld-truck-blast-driver-made-headache-joke holly hell.01:29
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nwegood morning.06:48
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: [notify] flash-player-plugin: updated to 11.2.202.40607:51
cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: python-xlib: fixed deps07:51
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: setuptools: 5.6 -> 5.709:43
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_root_hello11:53
BitPuffinhey11:54
diversesup11:54
_root_can I get the full virtualbox in crux? (installing VBox in crux)?11:54
_root_? I search ports and I didn't find additional guest port or package!!!!11:56
BitPuffineasy now11:57
BitPuffinof course you can install it11:57
diversehttp://crux.nu/portdb/index.php?q=virtualbox&a=search11:57
_root_what?11:57
diverseit's part of the contrib repo, you need to activate it11:57
BitPuffinmv /etc/ports/contrib.rsync.inactive /etc/ports/contrib.rsync11:58
_root_diverse: and if I install vbox and run win XP in that. could I access USB ports in XP inside the VBox?11:58
BitPuffinand then edit /etc/prt-get.conf11:58
BitPuffinand uncomment the line that looks like this11:58
Romsterusb passthough works11:58
BitPuffin#prtdir /usr/ports/contrib11:58
_root_Romster: explain?11:58
BitPuffin(change it to prtdir /usr/ports/contrib)11:58
BitPuffin_root_: understand?11:59
BitPuffinthen in order to be able to search for virtualbox11:59
BitPuffinyou need to do ports -u11:59
BitPuffinthen you should be able to prt-get depinst virtualbox11:59
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_root_BitPuffin: Yes; but abit confused. you mean I should uncomment the contrib ports and then fetch the vbox, YES? I search the ports "CRUX port browser" online. thereis two Vbox there on bin?12:02
_root_rehabdoll12:02
BitPuffin_root_: the virtualbox-bin one is from some other repository, ignore it12:03
Romstervirtualbox can use a usb port directy but then it's not available to the host system when it's assigned to the VM12:03
Romster_root_, should probably read the handbook12:03
Romsteron the crux.nu site regarding ports.12:03
_root_Romster: doesn't matter;just It would be available in side VBOX.YES?12:04
BitPuffin_root_: just do the steps I said, rename the rsync file and uncomment the prtdir line for contrib, refresh your port collection with ports -u and then install with prt-get12:04
Romsterinside yes.12:04
BitPuffinI don't know of a program called vbox.yes12:04
_root_BitPuffin: ok12:04
_root_BitPuffin: Virtualbox. YES? ( a question) :)12:04
BitPuffin:P12:05
diversehahaha12:05
_root_I am coming from archlinux12:05
diversewelcome12:05
BitPuffinwhen you ask yes with caps it makes it sound like you are yelling12:05
BitPuffin_root_: good move12:05
_root_it is new somehow to me. but I am liking what I see so far. very much12:05
BitPuffinyeah12:05
BitPuffinso12:05
BitPuffinports -u12:05
BitPuffinis like pacman -Sy12:05
_root_BitPuffin: oh' sorry no yelling12:06
BitPuffinand prt-get depinst is like pacman -S12:06
_root_yes; like -Sy12:06
BitPuffinprt-get sysup is like pacman -Syu12:06
BitPuffinand prt-get remove is like pacman -R12:06
BitPuffinnow you have the basics12:07
Romsteralso ports -u is?12:07
Romsteroh pacman -Sy12:07
Romsteryou covered it all.12:07
diversewell technically ports -u is like calling `abs` on arch, but I don't want to confuse you12:08
BitPuffinabs?12:08
BitPuffindiverse: Well I'm just giving him the general basic workflow12:08
BitPuffin_root_: oh also, prt-get search is like pacman -Ss12:08
diverseyeah of course, no worries12:08
BitPuffinhttp://unauthorised.org/dhog/9wm.html interesting12:09
BitPuffinah you mean the arch build system12:09
BitPuffinwell sure12:09
_root_and it seems CRUX has a nice and warm community. that is a win.!!!! :)12:09
diverseyeah it pulls down the pkgbuilds, where as ports -u pulls the pkgfiles ;)12:09
diverse_root_: yeah, you'll like it here12:09
BitPuffinprt-get depinst is not actually semantically like pacman -S since it also compiles the software etc12:10
BitPuffinpkg-get would probably be more like pacman -S but you know :P nobody really uses that at the moment12:10
BitPuffin_root_: yeah we are a small family here hehe12:10
BitPuffin_root_: how did you find out about crux?12:12
_root_we have Fish (shell) and VBox. I will install fluxbox or windowlab (if available) and run WinXp inside virtualbox for my android project.12:12
diversefluxbox is already in contrib12:13
_root_BitPuffin: I start viewing all of available distros in distrowatch about an hour ago and I finaly settled on CRUX.12:13
BitPuffinwoa all of them? :o12:13
Romsterseriously windows xp is depreciated12:13
BitPuffindeprecated*12:13
_root_BitPuffin: Yes all; even the solaris ones. (they openidiana is the active one)12:14
Romsterwhere still trying to get customers off of xp due to lack of support.12:14
diverseRomster: I would like to say the same with 32bit Linux, but people still use it :P12:14
Romsterit's not that big a security issue as windows xp is now.12:14
Romstersame code recompiled for 32 and 64 bit.12:15
BitPuffinnobody is causing xp to have a lower price or value  or deducting from taxable income over the original cost of xp12:16
diverseperhap xp is becoming a collectors OS? :P12:16
BitPuffinprobably indeed12:16
BitPuffinor will be12:16
_root_Romster: support of what? I use XP for android Chinese device projects ( only for the use of something called LiveSuit). windows & is better but it is about 2GB in ISO so not so good.12:16
BitPuffinso it's not depreciated at all :P12:16
BitPuffin_root_: support as in security updates and bugfixes12:16
BitPuffinit's not just deprecated12:17
BitPuffinit's plain EOL12:17
Romster_root_, i'm saying windows xp has no security fix patches anymore.12:17
BitPuffinRomster: if he's just running xp in a vm then it's ok12:17
Romsterend of life12:17
_root_BitPuffin: Firmware and ROM. currently FaaastJB for A13 Allwinner device12:17
diverseyeah I think microsoft has ended the support for xp12:17
BitPuffindiverse: they have12:18
BitPuffinit's only supported for like12:18
diverseso you might be a security risk12:18
Romsterbut that was just a comment. using it in your way is probably not so bad.12:18
BitPuffinpoint of sale devices12:18
BitPuffinor whatever12:18
Romsteronly supported for ATM machines and such large corporations now.12:18
diverse*at a security risk12:18
BitPuffinyeah12:18
BitPuffinand people who are willing to pay through their ass12:18
_root_Romster: I don't need security fix. I just need to run MS programs. and BAT scripts12:18
Romsteruntil the support price tag goes yoo high then companies will ditch xp.12:18
Romster_root_, yeah not a big concern for your use.12:19
_root_Romster: I heard a very sad news recently from the berlin city cons. they want to go back to windows12:19
Romsteri read that too12:20
_root_they might be on drugs or something.12:20
Romstersad12:20
diverseor maybe microsoft is bribing them12:20
Romsterwho knows.12:20
_root_the problem is their way of thinking. instead of going with the distro with entrprise packground. they should hire some young programers to build something secure and GUI friendly for them. (or maybe diverse is right!) :p12:23
diversewell one thing I do know is that ms likes to buy out exclusives for VN games from Japan for the 360 or xbone, as weird as that is. So I wouldn't be surprised if ms threw money at them and all of sudden they are pro-windows.12:29
_root_I need to start building some source code on my own. what is the ritual for that :)12:31
_root_what base packages I need12:31
_root_do you use gcc or clang?12:31
_root_what sort of make CURX uses?12:31
diverseCrux currently uses gcc/g++ for package building12:32
_root_good love gcc12:32
diversehowever if you want to use clang, nothing is stopping you12:32
_root_diverse: No clang12:32
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IronhetchWhats happening??13:27
BitPuffin 13:29
BitPuffin_root_: what's wrong with clang?13:30
BitPuffingcc is shit :P13:31
RotwangI beg to differ13:31
BitPuffinreally? llvm has a very well organized codebase13:32
BitPuffingcc?13:32
BitPuffinnot13:32
Rotwangsoooo?13:32
BitPuffinif the codebase is good and easier to follow it makes it easier to audit the code for bugs etc13:32
BitPuffineven Linus says gcc is a joke13:33
RotwangBitPuffin: so you're fixing bug in llvm?13:33
Rotwangbugs*13:33
BitPuffinno but I would be much more likely to be able to if I encountered a compiler bug13:34
BitPuffinsame reason I left a programming language, I ran in to a lot of compiler bugs and the codebase was shitty so I noped13:34
BitPuffincode quality matter13:34
RotwangI'm not sure if that particular thing makes gcc "shit"13:34
BitPuffinif the code is good then the software is likely good as well, sure, gcc has some more features at the moment but some of them are also unnecessary13:35
RotwangI've seen some trully shitty toolchains13:36
Rotwangand gcc isn't one of them13:36
Rotwange.g. in one of them, you couldn't have file name with a hyphen13:36
diverseIronhetch: it's your friendly neighborhood channel ;)13:36
Rotwangbecause compiler interpreted it as command line switch13:37
BitPuffinhere is the recent linus gcc critique http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/kernel/1407.3/00650.html13:37
BitPuffinbut I thought it was shit before that13:37
BitPuffinthe codebases is just ugh13:37
BitPuffinbut sure it kinda works13:37
BitPuffinin a shallow way13:37
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BitPuffindiverse: lol13:39
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BitPuffinI am friendly, just not to gcc13:43
BitPuffinthough I've been having to work with cl lately and that is complete balls13:44
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frinnstclang has a shit license13:51
frinnstand because of that it will never be as good as it can be13:52
rmullIsn't it BSD licensed? I guess I could just look it up.14:02
BitPuffinbsd-like14:02
BitPuffinhttp://llvm.org/docs/DeveloperPolicy.html#license14:02
BitPuffinfrinnst: it can be better thanks to not being gpl14:02
frinnstgeez, thats such a load of bullshit its not even funny14:02
frinnstdo you *really* think companies behind it (apple etc) will push their performance stuff back upstream?14:03
BitPuffinyes, they even have14:03
BitPuffinlol14:03
BitPuffinsame thing with BSD itself14:03
BitPuffincompanies like netflix actively contribute tons of code to the project14:03
frinnstand i wonder why netapp hasnt pushed all their bsd stuff back upstream to freebsd14:03
BitPuffinthe gpl doesn't force people to push their code upstream btw so that's bullshit as well14:04
BitPuffinthe maintainers would have to go look for the changes and bring them back14:04
frinnstno, but it forces you to release your changes under the same license14:04
BitPuffinso?14:05
BitPuffinmany people won't even use software if it's gpl14:05
BitPuffinif it's permissive it's more likely to be used14:05
frinnstyeah, great if you want to create a standard14:05
BitPuffinso if one company doesn't push back upstream then big deal, they probably wouldn't even have used the gpl version at all14:06
frinnstnot really great if you want people to enjoy all the benefits from it14:06
BitPuffinso nothing lost compared to gpl14:06
frinnstexcept for the users relying on the "free" versions14:06
BitPuffinhowever with a permissive license some companies will use it and contribute as well which they wouldn't have done if it was gpl14:06
BitPuffinsay if they were linking to something and didn't want their software to also be GPL14:06
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frinnstyes, some companies will continiue to contribute. but most companies will snatch the code, make improvements and sell it14:07
frinnstand strip you of your rights14:07
frinnstafk14:07
BitPuffinfrinnst: and those companies would still not even touch the gpl version so nothing lost14:08
BitPuffinso how exactly is netapp competing with BSD? not at all. It's not like hmm, am I gonna choose netapp or bsd14:10
BitPuffinalso copyright or copyleft is no "right", it's just bullshit laws14:10
BitPuffinwell copyleft isn't a law, it's a joke, but copyright is14:11
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BitPuffinthe real way to let other people benefit from your creation is to disclaim your copyrights completely14:11
BitPuffinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IeTybKL1pM4 :P14:16
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pedjaBitPuffin: if netapp and bsd are not competitors, more reason for netapp to push eventual fixes/patches upstream.15:03
pedjaBitPuffin: freenas and pfsense do, iirc15:05
pedjaBitPuffin: OmniOs and SmartOS push patches to their upstream,Illumos, OpenSolaris fork/derivative/whatever15:08
pedjabottom line : sharing is A Good Thing[tm]15:11
_root_What if I want to make a suggestion about some ports to be created for crux. like rodent-applications? haskell or vimb.15:24
_root_an another note; does crux uses binary or source based kernel. could I or should I compile my kernel or it is modular?15:26
frinnstwe dont do the kernel, we just ship a precompiled on the iso and supply the source for the user to install with15:27
frinnstso you are expected to do the kernel bit on your own15:27
_root_frinnst: So like gentoo?15:28
frinnstI guess, i dont know how gentoo does it :)15:29
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_root_frinnst: for the kernel part; downloading the source of kernel (made by gentoo team from the linus kernel) and the menu config. then make && make_modules15:37
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IronhetchIronhetch15:41
rmull_root_: Yes, like gentoo, although I don't believe crux ships a patched kernel. I usually grab the vanilla sources.15:49
rmullIronhetch: Ironhetch15:51
IronhetchYo rmull could you know where i could find the crack for topocad by adtollo15:52
rmullWrong channel bro.15:55
tilmanit's #crux, not #crax15:59
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frinnstlol16:31
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BitPuffinpedja: yeah sure I'm not saying that they shouldn't, I'm just saying that they are not really harming BSD16:45
BitPuffinand yes16:45
BitPuffinixsystems do a great job of contributing to BSD16:46
BitPuffinthey even have a bunch of kernel hackers and stuff that they have hired to work on freebsd16:46
BitPuffinso yeah16:46
BitPuffinI agree16:46
BitPuffinsharing is a wonderful thing16:46
BitPuffinI just think sharing things the nazi stallman way is a bit unethical personally16:46
BitPuffin_root_: yeah most of us just download the latest kernel from kernel.org and compile it ourselves16:48
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frinnstnazi?18:00
frinnstwtf dude18:00
BitPuffinfrinnst: don't take it so seriously18:15
BitPuffinbut really though the viral nature of the gpl makes me want to vomit18:17
BitPuffinlgpl with link exception makes it almost acceptable but not really, I can live with that though18:20
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tilmancasually calling people nazis woohoo18:28
frinnstignore is a wonderful irc feature18:29
frinnsthere, have a puppy: http://i.imgur.com/KVYLY.jpg18:29
tilmanfrinnst: ye, but then you wonder whether it was you that was just being called a nazi18:31
tilmanand then you have to check logs to be sure. lots of work18:31
frinnstnah, dont care18:31
BitPuffinlol, I didn't call anyone a nazi. I said sharing things the nazi stallman way. I didn't say you are a nazi or, stallman is a nazi, and you shouldn't even take it seriously that sharing things the stallman way is nazi behaviour anyway18:34
BitPuffingood job reading18:34
BitPuffineven #emacs can take my gpl criticism with a pinch of salt and they are all drinking the gpl kool-aid18:36
IronhetchIf i do this will it18:37
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cruxbot[core.git/3.1]: [notify] curl: updated to 7.38.0.21:06
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.1]: thunderbird: updated to 31.1.122:23
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renovaatioBitPuffin is a dumbass23:32
BitPuffinrenovaatio: fuck you23:32
renovaatioyeah23:32
renovaatioyou're a dumbass23:32
BitPuffinwhy are you being an asshole?23:32
renovaatioyou're a bad troll23:33
BitPuffinlol23:33
BitPuffinyou are trolling23:33
renovaatiodo you even use crux23:34
BitPuffinyeah23:34
BitPuffinIdo23:34
BitPuffinand actively promote it23:35
BitPuffinso you can go fuck yourself23:35
BitPuffinwhy are you trying to start a fight you moron23:35
renovaatiowhy are you using crux23:36
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BitPuffinmultiple reasons23:36
BitPuffinI've spoken about it before23:36
BitPuffingo find it if you really wanna know23:36
BitPuffinI'm not wasting any time on you since you are obviously trolling23:38
renovaatio112:46:49  BitPuffin | I just think sharing things the nazi stallman way is a bit unethical personally                                                                                                                                                    � prologic23:39
renovaatio114:17:33   BitPuffin | but really though the viral nature of the gpl makes me want to vomit                                                                                                                                                              � Stealth23:39
renovaatio1damn23:39
renovaatio1that's hardcore23:39
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BitPuffinrenovaatio: yeah and? you don't have to take any word literally23:40
BitPuffinI dislike the gpl23:40
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renovaatioxbps23:45
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renovaatiook23:49
renovaatioso weechat through screen through ssh23:49
renovaatio= bad idea23:49
renovaatiocrashes23:49
renovaatioand crashes screen23:49
renovaatiotmux is ok tho23:49
renovaatiobut23:50
renovaatiotime for irssi23:50
BitPuffinrenovaatio: you know sometimes when people talk about something they dislike they add extra salt to their sentences, it's normal. I guess you have to be around real people to learn that though23:50
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pidsleyBitPuffin: http://unauthorised.org/dhog/9wm.html interesting23:53
pidsleyhow so? you don't like 9wm?23:53
BitPuffinpidsley: hmm?23:53
BitPuffinWhy wouldn't I like it?23:53
pidsleywhy did you post that?23:54
BitPuffinah, because I'm thinking of giving it a try23:54
pidsley9wm is awesome23:54
pidsleybit of a learning curve, for people who don't wm hop much23:54
BitPuffinyeah I've been reading about plan9 lately every now and then, and being able to use tools like the ones on plan9 on a system that has some drivers is interesting to me23:55
BitPuffinso that's what I meant :)23:55
BitPuffinI don't mind a learning curve23:55
pidsleyah; plan9 from userspace23:55
pidsleyhttp://swtch.com/plan9port/23:56
BitPuffinyeah that's even more interesting since it's actual ports23:56
BitPuffinand not just a replica or whatever23:56
pidsleycool. i use a debian distro with a 9wm base23:56
BitPuffinyeah?23:57
BitPuffina premade one or did you set it up with a netinstall23:57
renovaatioBitPuffin: how old are you?23:58
pidsleypremade if you mean i built it myself, but installable for other users as well23:59
BitPuffinpidsley: ah cool23:59
pidsleyrenovaatio: why do you care? just let it go23:59
pidsleychill; breathe23:59

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