IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2014-10-15

dxlr8rI've read about it. you only need to pay up :P00:03
dxlr8rI'll chip in some cash :P00:04
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dxlr8rbut, done with work for tonight. now to get some food and goto bed00:05
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Digitcan we bring scotland along too?  i feel sorry for them being stuck to england like that.00:06
Digit i feel sorry for the folk in england too, being stuck to the city of london like that.  poor wales too.00:06
Digitn dont even mention irland.  (in real life, and = irland... a typo i thought i'd leave in).00:07
Digitactually, this is all just for dry satirical effect.  i actually live on the internet.  no idea what's going on outside these wires.00:08
dxlr8rhehe :P00:08
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dxlr8rDigit: the only thing emacs lacks is a good text editor :P00:11
dxlr8rheard that joke before? :)00:12
Digitho ho ho hee hee hee.  that's new.00:12
Digit;]00:12
Digithehe ;)00:12
dxlr8r:)00:12
Digiti've only been using it for a couple years or so.  was a gedit noob mostly before it changed my life.00:13
dxlr8rused emacs for a summer in a work I had. they went bankrupt00:13
_root_I need a bit of help on http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/162144/perl-plugins-dont-work-on-my-rxvt-unicode00:13
dxlr8rout of my league _root_00:14
Digiti dont mind it creeping in n taking over everything in my life... soon i'll use emacs for gaming, video editing, audio editing, image editing, psychiatry, electronics system design, vector graphics, 3d modeling, etc etc etc...  systemd on the other hand...  has anyone noticed it's an anagram of STD m'yes00:14
dxlr8rnope :O00:15
dxlr8r:P00:15
Digitnot a welcome creep.  crux is safe from systemd though right?   never never never?   right?00:15
dxlr8reven Linus hates emacs, hehe00:15
Digitlol00:15
dxlr8rwouldn't be so sure. asked the same question the other day. the answer I got was "for now"00:16
Digit:E00:16
dxlr8rnothing in the close future00:16
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joacim_root_: are urls underlined at least?00:18
Digitif one day i find myself a hermit compiling my own imagemagick and sox from old sources on a headless nmninmnnnnpneumonianimniiuagraph tape machine that i've converted to be able to use fine tapestries i've woven from my hair as tape to use as a screen read out, just to avoid systemd, then it will still have been worth it.00:18
dxlr8rtrue. but systemd doesn't work on bsd, so you can change to that00:19
Digitthere's uselessd, but it doubt it's a deep enough line in the sand to stop the tide.00:19
dxlr8rgentoo isn't in on systemd. neither is slackware00:20
Digityep.  or dragora.  exherbo is still possible to do sansd too00:20
joacim_root_: http://dpaste.com/1NCM45K <- here is my .Xdefaults. I'm not doing much, but the url stuff works for me00:21
Digiti havnt checked in with the puppy or slitaz peeps, and other micro distros... i doubt they'd "d up"00:21
dxlr8ryeah, there are many small distroes not using systemd. dunno if it's because they are so seldom updated or out of hatred00:21
Digitor because they'd quadrouple the entire size of the distro00:22
dxlr8r:P00:22
dxlr8rfor now crux is my sanctuary00:23
dxlr8rDigit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UllNDRXR1vM should be made with systemd00:23
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Digithttp://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Talk:Comparison_of_init_systems#Size_and_complexity nice lil graph, needs airing and expanding methinks00:24
_root_joacim: No; nothing00:26
dxlr8ryeah, alot of errors there to Digit00:26
dxlr8rlike systemd won't run on non x8600:26
dxlr8rit will00:26
dxlr8rpeople must do what they want with their distros. but the non systemd distros should gather around OpenRC so there would be an alternative with some size00:28
Digithttp://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html was the last straw for me with trying to like systemd, and lennart.  kinda looks to me like something different, a parasite even, is gestating, growing, in the belly of GNU|Linux, n it needs to get extracted sooner preferable to later, imo.00:29
dxlr8rtrue. linux is about choice00:30
DigitAMEN00:30
dxlr8rand small changeable parts00:30
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Digityup, the platformless platform of freedom, built on the unix philosophy imbued with the gnu philosophy, ... not another playa in the prison platform game of dependence generation00:33
dxlr8rtrue. linux has become bloat. dbus, systemd, pulse audio, etc.00:34
dxlr8rone mistake after another00:34
Digitfirm hand on the bsd tiller kept it anchored in a cleaner more coherent designed-directioned system whole.  magpies of linux realm though... who knows... it's a big eccosphere... maybe things will balance out...00:36
Digitoh, there's LSD Linux too of course.  ground up designed to not have systemd.  heh.00:36
dxlr8rhopefully crux will turn out nice in the future to :)00:37
dxlr8rVoid Linux used systemd but ditched it. the first I think00:37
Digitsurely a strong sign for it to have stayed true to original intent00:37
Digitcrux, kiss-aliscious.00:37
Digitdxlr8r, oh yeah, i remember reporting on that.  ^_^  heh00:37
dxlr8ryeah, not to fond of the distro otherwise. they have their community on google+ and such00:38
Digit*boik*00:39
dxlr8rthere is this french rolling release to that's systemd free00:40
dxlr8rlooks nice00:40
dxlr8rhttp://nutyx.org/en/00:40
dxlr8rhehe00:40
Digitfrench...  ooh, there's half a dozen superb distros from france.  got decent confidence in em just by nationality alone.  ^_^00:41
dxlr8ryeah, but they are really small00:42
dxlr8reven smaller than crux :P00:42
Digiti forgot about nutyx, of course.  they're from scratch (or from lfs) iirc.  glad they're sane too.  o well, there's quite a few it seems.  just seems like more with a high proportion of the big popular distros switching over.00:42
dxlr8rlike not even on distrowatch small00:42
Digitsourceror based distros i imagine will stay more kiss for init as much as they can too.00:42
dxlr8rgentoo and slackware are big, and the third biggest is crux I guess00:42
Digiti started a distro or two not on distrowatch myself.  ;D00:43
dxlr8rnice :)00:43
dxlr8rhow divided is the community? will there be a war? or is it just a small bunch of wierdos?00:44
Digitidk how closely kwort is to crux, or if it's completely forked off now, but i imagine it would be more stringently evasive of systemd too.00:44
Digitmy distro is decidedly small bunch of weirdos.  ^_^  so weird we generally dont bother doing much collaboration, and so are more just a ragtag assortment of folks releasing their own respins whenever, usually with no fanfare, just a link to an iso.  ^_^00:45
dxlr8rkwort is your distro?00:46
Digitnah, witch is mine.00:46
dxlr8rurl?00:46
dxlr8rahhh, you should have a homepage :)00:46
dxlr8ryou scots aren't know for giving up against an unbeatable opponenent!00:47
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Digitwitch is by definition without hierarchy or boss, all kinda "wicca"-esq organisation... so, anyone can make a site... or whatever for it.  ^_^  we've had some come n go.00:48
dxlr8rjust remember william wallace00:48
dxlr8ryou can be the new william wallace, standing up against systemd!00:48
dxlr8rand yelling FREEEEEDOM while they are torturing you00:49
dxlr8ryou will never yeld to systemd and lennart00:49
Digiti think i'll go with robert burns more... or john logie baird...  or...  idk, anyone involved with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_inventions_and_discoveries00:49
dxlr8rnah, william wallace kicks ass! and you must grow long hear! like mel gibson00:50
dxlr8ryeah!00:50
Digitmethinks my hair is already much longer than mel gibson's hair.  even longer than william wallace's hair in the film when played by mel gibson.  ... but hair as long as mel gibson, i wont manage.00:51
Digitbeard too.00:52
dxlr8rnice!00:52
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Digitdid someone call it linux earlier... damn, i shoulda got my beard fired up... http://ks392457.kimsufi.com/stuff/beardsoffire-2013-iii.png00:52
dxlr8rhehe :P00:53
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dxlr8rrichard stallman used to call it the gnu/linux operativ system. lately he just calls it the gnu operativ system00:53
dxlr8rmaybe he has changed to hurd00:54
dxlr8rhurd is free of systemd btw00:54
dxlr8r"Pioneering the use of surgical anaesthesia with Chloroform: Sir James Young Simpson " nice! scotland, every rapists favorite country00:55
Digitone of soffmi muhod's tracks is basically little more than the hurd source code piped through /dev/audio00:57
dxlr8rlol00:57
Digitshsh.  secret trivia.  idk if i am supposed to say that.00:58
dxlr8rrichard stallman is one grose guy00:58
dxlr8rhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ00:58
dxlr8rstill have nightmares about that00:58
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Digitoh come on.  who hasnt ever eaten something from their foot.   stallman just does it in public, because he's ALWAYS giving lectures, so he has no private time for it.  ok, so it's a little weird.   give the guy a break, he's working for everyone's freedom.   ;)   (is my press statement i give on that topic any time it comes up)00:59
Digit;D00:59
dxlr8rhaha :P I actuallt has never eaten something from my foot01:00
dxlr8rI try to like him, but that video has ruined alot for me01:01
Digiti think i did after stallman did, just to say i had.  lol.01:01
dxlr8rI didn't think I could eat anything from my foot. not old enough01:01
dxlr8rthe skin is still soft01:01
Digitbasically, eating stuff from feet = not important01:02
dxlr8rwell, not really. his programming skills aren't affected or what he has accomplished01:02
dxlr8rbut I must admit I felt less of him after that video01:03
Digitdispelling the newspeak doublethink conflated terminological deceptions like "intellectual property" = important.   ;)01:03
dxlr8rand I fell disgusted when I see him :/01:03
Digitit is a pity01:03
dxlr8ryeah :/01:03
dxlr8rI could overlook small doses of nose picking01:04
joacimhttps://rms.sexy01:04
dxlr8reven pealing stuff of your foot. but not EATING it :P01:04
Digitbut on the plus side, it's gotta be at least a little endearing, right, so see that level of total lack of P.R. bullshitting and "keeping up appearances" and "perception management" etc01:04
dxlr8rhehe01:04
dxlr8rseen it before joacim . looks like a regular programming hippie :)01:05
Digitwait, that's not his yulong leemote or whatever it's ca~  oh there it is.  nm01:05
dxlr8rmy wife won't let me have long ungroomed/trimed hear or beard :/01:06
dxlr8rliving a horrible life :P01:06
Digitnot even for november?01:06
Digitcould tag along for the november facial hair for charity thing, and tell her "think about the children!"01:07
dxlr8rwell, not to long :)01:07
dxlr8rhehe :P01:07
dxlr8rman, it's 3AM :( think I must ge to bed01:08
dxlr8rsee you guys later :) Digit joacim , good night01:08
joacimnight01:08
Digitgn. :)01:10
Digitgood, hopefully i wont get caught up in engaging conversation and get on with, hrmm, keeping the logs here pristine, on topic, and low traffic.  ;)01:11
dxlr8r:P01:12
Digit(twas a complement, albeit cryptically)01:13
rmullI am making apple pie01:14
rmull\m/01:14
rmullHow's that for on-topic.01:14
dxlr8rnp Digit :)01:14
Digitapple pie.  as american as crux.01:15
Digitjust gets used a lot there.  ;)01:15
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Romsterholly hell long log01:33
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chumadHeyo guys. Does CRUX feature anything similiar to USE flags (like Gentoo)?03:03
FaymDoesn't need to?03:03
chumadErr... I take that as a "no".03:04
jaegerno, nothing like that03:15
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rmull_teK__: opt/lsof download is broken04:24
rmull_Also 4.88 is out04:24
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: atk: updated to 2.14.005:44
cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: [notify] firefox: updated to 33.005:44
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diverseRomster: that can happen ;)06:26
Romsterrebuilding firefox07:12
cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: [notify] chromium: updated to 38.0.2125.10107:14
nwegood morning07:14
Romsterand then that...07:15
teK__rmull_: will fix tonight, thx07:18
frinnstwhat, chromium depends on clang?07:21
frinnstyuck07:21
Romsterdidn't ya know chromium is a compiler now.07:23
cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: u-boot-tools: updated to 2014.1007:23
Romsterfinally got firefox downloaded after a sysup in my chroot.07:29
Romsterhmm i don't think firefox is respecting MAKEFLAGS07:32
frinnstseems chromium either requires clang or gcc 4.807:33
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.1]: [notify] thunderbird: updated to 31.2.0.08:57
_root_anyone http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/162144/perl-plugins-dont-work-on-my-rxvt-unicode09:09
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EsLifehi09:29
frinnsthola!09:30
nwehey09:34
_root_nwe: :)]09:49
nwehow are you _root_10:07
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_root_how could I build my repo on bitbucket like timcow?10:32
_root_and any help on my perl problem folks?10:32
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frinnstSo last week i sent out an email to all users at company X, tellning them to send requests to our support ticketing system.11:46
frinnstdont you think i just got a fucking email from a fucking idiot replying to that email telling me i cant scan?11:47
frinnstffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu11:47
nwe hahhaa11:47
z3braoi oi oi11:48
z3brafrinnst, typical "Pleaser user, press 'A'"11:48
z3bra"I KEEP PRESSING 'B' BUT THIS SHIT DOESN'T WERK !!!"11:49
frinnsti have no words11:57
frinnsti replied and told him that i dont work today11:57
nwehaha :)11:58
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diversetalk about Darwin award for most incompetent user12:05
frinnstnah, far from it12:05
frinnstyou would get scared if you only knew..12:06
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cruxbot[core.git/3.1]: [notify] openssl: updated to 1.0.1j.13:56
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dxlr8ragain? a lot of openssl updates lately14:01
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teK__a lot of crypto screwups in general14:03
xeirrrhi, gtk-chtheme's upstream seems no longer there.14:07
xeirrrHow you guys manage your gtk theme?14:08
frinnstlxappearance14:08
xeirrrfrinnst: Are u using WM or DE?14:11
frinnstjust a windows manager14:11
frinnsti've yet to try a de that doesnt drive me crazy14:11
xeirrrMe too. I14:12
xeirrrOk, less dependency, like it14:13
cruxbot[core.git/3.1]: procps: use --disable-modern-top for now14:17
teK__heh14:24
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rmull_dxlr8r: Don't know if it's the reason for the latest openssl bump, but http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/new-poodle-bug-takes-bite-out-ssl-3-0-web-n22591114:40
rmullWhy --disable-modern-top on procps? I thought it was pretty cool to use the modern top14:42
frinnstbecause its buggy14:42
rmullI suppose that's a good reason14:42
frinnst:)14:42
rmullI'll go back to htop for the time being then14:42
rmullGotta say though, seeing the modern top for the first time blew my mind when I wasn't expecting it14:43
frinnstit kept saying i was using ~16kb ram out of 16gig14:43
frinnstreproduced on a bunch of machines14:43
frinnstwith clean confs14:43
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frinnstthere are a bunch of open bugs for it so hopefully things will be sorted in the next release14:44
rmullIs that the two columns next to the GiB Mem line?14:44
rmullI wasn't exactly sure how to interpret that myself14:44
joacimtop needs 90s 3d graphics14:44
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frinnstGiB Mem : 16.1/3.83114:44
frinnstoO14:44
rmull17.7/15.639 here14:45
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frinnsthehe14:45
rmullI just assumed it wasn't used/available14:45
jaeger7.8/31.31114:45
joacimGiB Mem :  1.3/7.75114:45
joacimbut no graph14:45
joacimhtop says 197/793614:45
jaegerwhich is double what htop/free report used... total is nearly correct14:45
rmullThe first number is "percentage available"14:45
rmullSorry, "percentage used"14:46
rmullsecond number is total available14:46
rmullso... they're not in the same units14:46
rmullIs it possible it's actually correct then?14:46
jaegerah, interesting14:46
rmullLooking at the man page, section 2c14:46
joacimwouldn't hurt to throw in a % then =)14:46
jaegerit's not correct in my case but it's closer14:46
joacimmakes it easier to read14:46
rmulljoacim: Agreed :D14:46
jaegerah, it actually uses 1024 instead of 1000 in its math so the second number is correct14:48
jaegerwhat an odd way to do it14:48
frinnstits very confusing14:49
frinnstnot what I want when using top :)14:49
jaegerand still differs from htop14:49
rmulljaeger: But it says that clearly by indicating GiB14:49
jaegerI never trust that shit these days, heh14:49
jaegersometimes you see people use GB/GiB interchangably, which is annoying as hell14:50
rmulltrue enough14:50
joacimi don't know what to do about 1024 vs. 1000 anymore. Watching people convert from MHz to GHz or kbps to Mbps using 1024 makes my head hurt14:50
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jaegerit seems like top uses it correctly, it's just a strange way to show the data in my opinion14:53
rmullAre you guys using btrfs?14:56
rmullIs there any difference between giving btrfs a whole disk (/dev/sdb) version a partition that spans the whole disk (/dev/sdb1) ?14:56
rmullI made two drives in btrfs raid1 mode and gave btrfs the whole disk because of some example I saw online - never saw that before though14:57
leo-unglaubrmull: i am using btrfs for years, had only once a problem with it14:58
jaegerI don't use it myself.15:00
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rmullI'm now using it for a root partition and for a pair of 2T btrfs raid1 drives15:01
rmullso far so good.15:01
frinnsti've run it for a few years now I think15:03
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leo-unglaubrmull: my issue was that the copy on write part did not free the old versons after running a btrfs cleanup tool on the partition. as a result every time you edited a file, the used disc space doubled15:24
leo-unglaubbut the guys in the btrfs irc helped me to debug it very fast and patched it up in the kernel15:24
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cruxbot[core.git/3.1]: btrfs-progs: updated to 3.16.215:44
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rmulllol cruxbot17:00
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thetornainbowwhat's up guys18:10
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rmullthetornainbow: hi.19:01
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thetornainbowyo19:04
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fooooobarhoi, i have a problem19:44
fooooobarsince a few days i cannot boot crux anymore19:45
fooooobarlilo no boot signature found19:45
fooooobarand i cannot update lilo anymore without the error message19:46
fooooobarFatal open /dev/ is a directory19:46
fooooobarany idea why19:46
jaegerthe dev issue is probably because you haven't configured lilo.conf yet19:46
jaegerthe boot sig message may go away once that's fixed19:46
fooooobari have the same lilo file for the last 2 years19:47
jaegerare you positive? you didn't overwrite it recently by reinstalling lilo or with rejmerge?19:47
jaegerbecause the default conf that ships with crux contains: root=/dev/#ROOT_DEVICE#19:47
fooooobari just checked it, the lilo conf is correct19:48
jaegercan you pastebin it? also, what lilo command are you running?19:48
fooooobari cannot pastebin it because i am just on a live iso on that machine ...19:49
fooooobari run lilo directly or lilo -M /dev/sdb19:49
jaegerdoes the live iso have curl?19:49
fooooobaryes, thats an idea to curl post it19:50
jaegertry "cat lilo.conf | curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us19:50
jaeger"19:50
fooooobari am trying a lilo backup fle now, if that does not work i am pasting it19:50
jaegerok19:51
fooooobari hope the lilo backups in /boot work19:51
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fooooobarjaeger: thank god, it works .... but the issue it self is still strange19:54
jaegerI am sure it was the wrong lilo.conf file (or a comment in the root= line)19:54
jaegerthat fatal error about /dev/ being a directory points to that19:54
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_root_I can't open 19.168.1.1 (my wireless roueter page) in firefox. but I have access to internet. why?20:28
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nwe /j openwrt20:40
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thetornainbowhaha i think _root_ just might have mistyped? 192.168.1.1?21:35
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_root_I can't open 19.168.1.1 (my wireless roueter page) in firefox. but I have access to internet. why?22:24
_root_192.168.1.122:24
jaegerThere's probably no way we could know the answer to that. You might want to check the manual for your router22:24
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_root_guys I asked about my router but I didn't get any answer.23:45
_root_can you help me. any idea is better than what I am facing right now23:45
rmull_root_: Don't ask to ask, just ask23:46
rmullAre you sure your router is at 192.168.1.1?23:47
rmullWhat's the output of "ip route"23:48
rmullDo you see a "default via x.x.x.x" ? That would probably be the IP address of your router23:48
_root_rmull: Yes; I was in livecd yesterday and It was working. I have this router for a year now23:48
rmullCan you ping 192.168.1.1?23:48
_root_rmull: yes It pings23:49
jaegerrequire https perhaps?23:49
rmullhttps://192.168.1.1 -- specify explicitly23:49
_root_jaeger: no sir; it is not that fancy. It is top shelf run of the mill TP-Link router23:50
jaegernmap it, see if it's actually listening23:50
rmull_root_: What do you actually get when you try http://192.168.1.1 and https://192.168.1.1?23:51
_root_rmull: just says Loading (firefox)23:51
_root_and on the tab connecting23:51
rmullAnd it never goes to "Unable to connect" ?23:52
_root_rmull: not after 20min doesn't23:52
rmullInteresting23:52
_root_more I didn't check23:52
rmullHave you tried another browser?23:52
rmullAlso the nmap suggestion is good23:52
_root_rmull: like?23:52
_root_I only installed firefox23:53
rmullopt/elinks23:53
_root_good Idea; let me check :)23:53
_root_today was problematic for me in IRC. I was behind several -!-NetSplits23:54
_root_I didn't chack anything others said23:54
rmullor you could try telnet 192.168.1.1 8023:54
rmulland see if it connects23:54
_root_like listening to broken radio23:54
_root_rmull: connected now what?23:55
jaegertry "GET /index.html HTTP/1.1" or similar, see if it responds23:57
rmullIf it responds then your browser has a problem - proxy configuration? tor? anything?23:58
rmullvpn?23:59

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