IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2014-10-30

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_root_@/04:48
fengshaunwhat is crux's stance on systemd?05:07
Digitfuck systemd05:07
Digitahem, sry05:07
Digiti cant speak for crux.   ... but i think that's the same ballpark.  :)05:07
fengshaunalright, sounds good05:08
fengshaunI've been reading the docs and I think crux is just beautiful05:08
fengshaunwith its ports system05:08
fengshaunand plaintext configs05:08
Digiti sometimes like to think of it like having some of the best qualities of the BSDs, arch, slackware, and then without the crap.  so clean n right.  :)    (i rly should use it more)05:15
Digiti'm sure someone who lives and breathes crux will be able to come and give an answer to crux's position on systemd.05:16
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RomsterFeigrim, avoid it at all costs07:04
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FeigrimRomster: :O07:38
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Romster:)07:48
RomsterFeigrim, blueness is actualyl one of the devs that made eudev07:48
Romsterafaik07:48
Romsterhttp://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/ find that interesting07:50
FeigrimRomster: I am getting the impression that you are meaning to talk to someone other than me :)07:52
Romsteroh um that was for fengshaun07:53
Romstersorry similar nicks07:53
Feigrimnp!07:53
Romsterbut your invited too lol07:53
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Romsterkernel updated08:29
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diverseRomster: to which version?09:00
Romster3.16.609:03
Romsteri was on 3.16.409:03
nweRomster: do you have an synaptic touchpad and running kernel 3.16.X  or above09:05
nwe?09:05
Romsternah this is a desktop09:06
diversenwe: 3.16.x kernels have frinnst's stable stamp of approval. It's a sure bet you will be fine updating to those if stability is a concern09:09
frinnstno it doesnt. only after a specific patch did it become useable09:10
frinnst:)09:10
frinnst3.18-rc1 is actually stable for me!09:10
frinnstdo have the same kvm issue i've had with all versions after 3.14 still09:10
nwefrinnst: do you have the patch for synaptic? If I trying with newer kernel than 3.14.8 my touchpad stop working.. and I hve the new driver in the kernel hdrmi4 or what the name is..  :P09:12
nweso Im stuck on kernel 3.14 :(09:12
frinnstno I dont use any synaptics hardware09:12
nweoh :(09:12
frinnstlaptops are the devils spawn!09:12
nwelol09:12
frinnstif you have some time over you could bisect it with git and open a bug for it09:13
frinnstopening a bug is probably a good idea even if you dont bisect the issue09:13
nweI tried with latest exont live-cd with kernel 3.16 (ubuntu) and there my touchpad working.. but I think they have patch the driver or something..09:14
diversefrinnst: which is worse, a laptop or a tablet?09:16
frinnstdont use either09:16
nwefrinnst: why do you hate laptops?09:16
frinnsti dont hate them, i just dont have the need for one09:17
nweoh okey :)09:17
diversenwe: look at the patches Ubuntu uses for the kernel09:17
frinnstI do carry one for work, but that even has windows 8.1 on it09:17
Romstertrator :P09:30
diverseSigh, nvidia is taking to long to release a new driver update09:33
diverseOnly the "shortest lived branch" version supports the gtx 900 series09:35
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diversewtf? systemd is coming with a tty replacement now? It literally is becoming an OS... ffs12:14
Feigrimdiverse: emacs 2.012:14
leo-unglaubdiverse: it replaces tty, and the network config as well12:15
leo-unglaubit's a monster ..12:15
diverseIt makes me want to vomit blood12:20
leo-unglaubwhy do you think i switched to crux? because debian got systemd infected12:24
diverseWhy do you think I switched from arch 2 years ago?12:25
Feigrimarch was the first distro I ever used, and I stopped using it when they got systemd12:25
Romstergeez12:26
Romsteri have noticed more new nicks in here lately. all because we don't use systemd?12:27
Romstereven though our ports collection is a lot smaller.12:27
leo-unglaubRomster: the site http://boycottsystemd.org/ listet crux as an alternative12:28
leo-unglaubthats why i am here12:28
Romsteroh yeah that site12:29
Romsteri don't think crux is that well known.12:29
Romstereveryone hears of arch but never crux.12:29
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xeirrrI am wondering when crux 4 arrives. No idea about release cycle.12:41
frinnst3.2 will be the next version12:42
frinnstand we release when upstream introduces incompabilities or if we need to do any major changes12:42
xeirrrlike gcc 4.9.1 issue?12:43
frinnstyeah gcc 4.8 -> 4.9 (or whatever) would be introduced in a new crux release12:44
dxlr8ralso a systemd refuge. used to use arch and debian12:44
frinnst4.8.2 -> 4.8.3 was updated in the same crux version12:44
leo-unglaubfrinnst: or cryptsetup support *g* would hopefully also be a reason12:45
frinnstyeah that would obviously need a new release since its done during install :)12:45
Romsterit could be in 3.2 though12:46
Romsteri should look at lvm2 being done as a udev rule than in the rc... if i get time to look at that.12:46
dxlr8rso I hope Crux will stay systemd free forever :)12:46
Romsteras long as there is a option to do so.12:47
dxlr8rthere always is12:47
dxlr8r*BSD doesn't have it, and uses much of the same software12:47
dxlr8rso developers still need to support non systemd12:47
xeirrrplease no systemd.12:48
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Romsterthink the issue will be we need some wrapper API to support programs that insist on using systemd.12:48
Romstersome sort of skeleton API12:48
Romsterif it gets that bad.12:48
dxlr8ror make a choice and don't support hem12:48
Romsterthat isn't systemd but allows programs to think it is to work.12:48
dxlr8rthem12:48
leo-unglaubthe only thing that really needs systemd is all the gnome stuff12:48
leo-unglaubbut thats bad software anyways ... so ...12:49
Romsteryeah i tried to use gnome at frist i gave up and went to kde and xfce and others fvwm icewm and then i settled on pekwm for years now.12:49
Romsteroh did try out e18 though12:49
Romsterbut i like my pekwm12:49
leo-unglaubgnome2 was nice ... but this gnome shell effect thing just sucks ..12:50
Romsterthere is mate12:50
leo-unglaubyes, but xfce is cooler ;)12:50
dxlr8ryou can't please everyone. if you implement systemd some people will leave, if you don't implement you might loose gnome users. I dunno how many crux users prefer gnome though12:50
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leo-unglaublets stop talking about systemd ... i just startet to love crux ... and the awesome package manager ...12:52
leo-unglaubi dont want to get in a bad mood because of systemd12:52
Romsterhehe12:52
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dxlr8rmy love will grow into hate if I find the bloated beast upon crux. but yeah :) I'll embrace it to that day12:53
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diverseleo-unglaub: so what's new?12:53
Romstercrux is easy to replace stuff anyways12:53
Romsterheck i was using runit at one stage in crux.12:53
leo-unglaubi need some food ... systemd depresses me12:53
leo-unglaubif pid1 becomes larger than the kernel i am running ... something is seriously wrong12:54
Romsteryeah12:54
Romsteri'd hate to think what systemd will include next.12:54
dxlr8ra text editor?12:55
dxlr8rkernel?12:55
leo-unglaubthey have a http daemon, a network config tool, tty replacement, own binary log format12:55
leo-unglaubi think it's time to go multimedia12:55
dxlr8ryeah, audio12:55
leo-unglauband bring there own x replacement12:55
dxlr8rpulseaudio12:55
leo-unglaubalso a database would be nice12:56
Romsterprobably include there own pulseaudio12:56
leo-unglauba mysql replacement *g*12:56
dxlr8rand wayland fork12:56
leo-unglaubwell, they forked DBUS *g*12:56
Romsterthey have that now some bianry log file format that isn't fixable and ABI changes on new versions to break it.12:56
diverseMore like stoled dbus12:56
diverseAnd udev12:59
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dxlr8rLinux with systemd is more like: Linux Windows ME Edition13:01
FeigrimI had a PC with Windows ME on it, and then I upgraded to one with Vista. I didn't have much luck with Windows versions13:02
Romsterwindows millennium was the worst fo the lot note ven driver sites have windows me for drivers while xp is still listed13:02
Romsteri was smart i stayed with xp then went to linux when i heard about vista13:03
Romsteri do have 7 here and xp though now. but don't use that much13:03
Romsterwindows 9 wont exist :D13:03
dxlr8rmac user for desktop, linux for server and windows for gaming :)13:04
dxlr8rtried to switch to linux for desktop many times13:04
Romsteryeah windows for gaming... but steam on linux does work quite well for some games that are linux useable.13:05
dxlr8rsteam works great, but to few of the games that I am playing are supported13:06
dxlr8rjust hope steam stays clear of systemd and pulseaudio13:08
dxlr8ras a requirement13:08
xeirrrLet's stop systemd topic.13:09
dxlr8r:P13:09
diverseSo, anything new or interesting happening recently?13:12
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dxlr8rdiverse ting :P13:13
Romsterme too13:14
diverseting?13:14
dxlr8rdiverse is a word in norwegian :P so is ting13:14
diverseAh13:14
Romsterto me its a sound that a triangle makes when hit.13:15
dxlr8rvarious kinds of stuff, is the best translation I guess13:15
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diverseHmm, clang is enabling C11 as default C, for 3.6 and gcc5 will make the same switch13:18
Romsterthat could break a few things?13:18
diversePossibly13:19
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diverseI guess this will be an important heads up for maintaining ports13:20
leo-unglaubLinux for Everything!!!13:21
leo-unglaub;)13:21
leo-unglaubexcept when i play battlefield 3 or World of Warcraft13:21
leo-unglaub*g*13:21
Romstermay mean adding default standards C90 or something.to some ports until upstream fix there stuff.13:21
cruxbot[core.git/3.1]: libpipeline: update to 1.4.013:22
cruxbot[core.git/3.1]: [notify] man-db: update to 2.7.0.213:22
cruxbot[core.git/3.1]: dhcpcd: update to 6.6.013:22
cruxbot[core.git/3.1]: eudev: update to 2.1.113:22
cruxbot[core.git/3.1]: libtool: update to 2.4.313:22
cruxbot[core.git/3.1]: iproute2: update to 3.1713:22
dxlr8rleo-unglaub: wine? :P13:23
leo-unglaubwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa13:24
Romsteri thought of qemu and vga passthough to a second graphics card13:24
Romstersecond monitor but windows in VM with 3d accelerated graphics.13:25
nrxtxRomster: that is interesting, but requires chipset and cpu to support it13:25
Romsterwell i have the chipset and 2 gpu cards13:25
diverseSLI?13:25
Romsteri just haven't had time13:25
nrxtxRomster: which chipset do you have?13:26
Romsternah 2 single gpu cards in pcie x16 slots no SLI13:26
Romsterdo i relaly have to pull up the chipset? i have the cpu flags required.13:26
nrxtxyes13:26
nrxtxmy cpu also has the flag but i cannot use it since the chipset doesn't have it13:27
leo-unglaubRomster: are you Brotatoe?13:27
Romsteri think thisis the one i'm using now GA-MA790X-UD4P13:28
Romsterleo-unglaub, to whom?13:29
Romsterthis is irc...13:29
leo-unglaubtwitch?13:29
Romsteroh i've seen that dude on twitchtv not frieds with him but i've watched13:30
leo-unglaubah, i see13:30
leo-unglaubthought that was you13:30
Romsterwhy?13:30
Romsternope13:30
nrxtxRomster: have a look for the ones with IOMMU http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_chipsets which is required afaik for pci passthrough on amd13:33
jaegerI think the 790 chipsets don't support it13:35
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Romsterdont have IGP but it has crossfire.13:35
Romsterbut i got two pcie x16 sockts and 2 gpus....will suck if it don't13:36
Romsteryeah bugger it don't list IOMMU on wikipedia for a 790X13:37
Romster:(13:37
jaegerMy CPU and chipset both support it but because of a design choice by the motherboard manufacturer I still can't use it :P13:38
Romsteri'll have to try it when i get a new rig13:38
leo-unglaubi am happy that my setup does not support it13:38
leo-unglaubbecause if i would not have to reboot to play a game ..13:38
leo-unglaubi would not get any work done at all13:38
leo-unglaub*g*13:38
Romsterhaha13:39
jaegerheh13:39
Romsterso while my cpu does and i got VT in my bios it hasn't got VGA pass though capability.13:39
Romsterdespite two pcie x16 slots.13:40
Romsterdamn chipsets13:40
leo-unglaubopen hardware FTW ;) https://www.crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop13:40
jaegerVT-x and VT-d are different, keep that in mind13:40
jaegerAMD-V and AMD-Vi are the names on the AMD side, I think13:41
jaegerwith VT-x/AMD-V you can still do hardware virtualization but NOT passthrough13:41
jaegeryou need both for passthrough13:41
Romsteryeah i can do hardware but i wanted to try VGA pass though.13:42
cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: sqlite3: update to 3.8.7.113:43
Romstermakes a note of this though13:44
Romsterjust so many things and then chipset choice on the mobo. did they forget to lay a track for that jaeger ?13:46
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fengshaunRomster: you said something that was for me! I missed it, sorry!17:42
fengshaunwhat did you say?17:42
fengshaunmy backlog doesn't go that far :(17:43
mhegcc 4.9.2 is out17:43
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cruxbot[core.git/3.1]: sudo: updated to 1.8.11p218:09
frinnstthats probably the most useless core commit i've ever done :)18:10
frinnstFixed a bug where dynamic shared objects loaded from a plugin could use the hooked version of getenv() but not the hooked versions of putenv(), setenv() or unsetenv(). This can cause problems for PAM modules that use those functions.18:10
frinnst--without-pam18:10
frinnst:D18:10
frinnstfengshaun: we log the channel, url is in the topic18:11
fengshaunfrinnst: thanks18:13
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dedmanwlkhi guys, if i want to compile just 1 module, i sit in src/3.1.24, then run make fs/<whatever> ?18:40
frinnstnah, just add it to the config and run make && make modules_install18:41
dedmanwlkfrinnst: i have no idea what i am doing, full disclosure18:41
frinnstso select it either by editing .config or run make menuconfig/config18:41
dedmanwlkbut i need to program some cifs stuff and the sysadmin for this machine is not around. id rather not sit here and do nothing, but i cant F up his system18:42
frinnstdo you even have root?18:42
frinnstyou need root to load a module18:42
dedmanwlkyes18:42
frinnstwell if you 1) dont know what you are doing and 2) cant fuck up the machine18:43
frinnsti'd suggest you wait :)18:43
tilmanfuck that18:43
tilmango for it18:43
frinnstlol18:43
dedmanwlki mean18:43
dedmanwlkwhats worse18:43
tilman#yolo kernel update18:43
dedmanwlkboss i sat here and did nothin cuz i was scared18:43
dedmanwlkor i f'd your system up trying to make progress18:43
frinnstare you in the source of the running kernel?18:44
dedmanwlki tgz'd the dir just to be safe - lol18:44
dedmanwlkyup18:44
jaegerRomster: in my case it wasn't a missing trace but a weird implementation. a pci-to-pci-e bridge device that doesn't report itself as a pci-e root port but has devices hanging from it. Something like that, I don't remember the technical details18:44
frinnstthen run "make menuconfig" - select the module you need -> run # make && make modules_install && depmod -a && modprobe cifs18:45
frinnsti think that should work18:45
frinnst* frinnst is not responsible for dedmanwlk's unemployment18:46
frinnst:) afk18:46
dedmanwlkfrinnst: fair enough18:46
dedmanwlk:D18:46
dedmanwlkfrinnst: that route is better than just the specific module+modprobe, you think?18:47
mheeasy solution, use slackware huge config, everything will be in there18:49
dedmanwlkmhe: want to learn18:51
dedmanwlkalright so i added the shtuff, saved the config, and ran make all18:51
mheok, trimming your kernel config18:51
dedmanwlki dont want to install on this system, but another. so I should not run make modules_install, correct?18:51
mheI just use the huge-kernel-config because it will always work and I do not care about trimming down my kernel18:52
jaegerdedmanwlk: you could use INSTALL_MOD_PATH to install them somewhere else and copy that dir to the system you want18:53
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mhecompiling the kernel goes like: 1) untar the latest/whatever linux-3.X.Y.tar.*z in /usr/src 2) cd /usr/src/linux-3.x.y 3) make mrproper 4) make sure you have a .config in there 5) make oldconfig/menuconfig 6) make all && make modules_install 7) cp /arch/.../bzImage /boot/vmlinuz-3.x.y 8) cp System.map /boot/ 9) edit bootloaderconfig 10)reboot and test18:54
dedmanwlkjaeger: i think thats the route i was originally trying to go.18:55
dedmanwlkmhe: thank you, i will run the make modules_install and then scp the .map and vmlinuz over i think18:56
mhewell, on crux there is no package for kernel, you can indeed do the install to a specific directory and untar that on the system, perhaps there is someone here that does package the kernel18:56
mheyes, make modules_install puts the modules in the correct dir, the bzImage and System.map need to be copied to the /boot/ and then you can either update your lilo/grub/bootloader config or use the bootloaders upgrade function, if your bzImage is copied to vmlinuz* it will be found18:58
mhean initrd is not used by default, if you need it, you need a few extra steps18:59
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leo-unglaubis it possible to remove all packages that got installed by package X and remove package X and all additionally intalled packages?19:32
teK_onlu manually19:33
leo-unglaubhmm, then the question is how do i get all depencencies that are only needed for package X19:40
leo-unglaubis there an install log file?19:42
teK_prt-get deptree irssi19:42
teK_if you configured prt-get to write one: yes19:42
leo-unglaubthen i guess there is none by default19:42
leo-unglaubthe problem with deptree is, that you don't see if a package is used somewhere else as well19:43
teK_yep19:43
teK_one would need a flag [o] instead of [i], if the installed package is need by eg irssi19:44
teK_which is dangerous because maybe you wanted it to be installed by itself and not because  of irssi19:44
jaegerI have a very ghetto script to list leaf ports, maybe you could do something similar19:44
jaegerhttp://sprunge.us/IdQP19:45
jaegerfor each port in the dep list of the port you removed, check if it's required by something else that's still installed. if not, remove it too19:46
leo-unglaublooool19:49
leo-unglaubnow i understand what you mean by ghetto script ...19:50
leo-unglaubi was googeling that language ghetto is19:50
jaegerIt was just a quick thing I threw together to do a job, not polished :)19:50
leo-unglaubmy special case is that i wanted to install vlc ... it installed a few dependencies and then i saw that it would install 250 mb if QT19:51
jaegerIt doesn't do what you're asking about, I just linked it as an example of how you can script some prt-get functions together19:51
leo-unglaubwith is overkill for a media player19:51
mheyes qt is a bitch19:52
mheyou can use mplayer with/without gui and grab all the codecs19:52
leo-unglaubdamn, i thought /var/lib/pkg/db would be appended and i just could remove the last packages there ...19:54
leo-unglaubbut thats not an option *g*19:54
leo-unglaubmhe: mplayer sounds like a good idea19:55
leo-unglaubi only need a simple media player for some stargate and some porn *g*19:56
leo-unglaubjaeger: just an idea ... if you would store the information in the db file if a package was installed directly or "just" as a dependency20:00
leo-unglaubthis would be very easy solvable in the future20:00
jaegerI have talked about that in the past20:00
jaegerI called it implicit vs. explicit deps, though20:00
jaegerperhaps in a future version20:00
leo-unglaub:)20:02
leo-unglaubit would help to keep the system clean20:03
leo-unglaubbecuase removing a package + dependencies would be very easy20:03
teK_I thought about something like prt-get groupinstall irssi20:03
teK_that links the newly installed deps to irssi20:04
teK_but this requires a new pkgdb format.20:04
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leo-unglaubteK_: in my opinion just remembering if a package was requested directly or installed via dependency would be enought20:06
leo-unglauband it would be possible in the same pkgdb format20:07
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tilmanleo-unglaub: i think these days mpv is considered superior to mplayer20:43
mhe has been released last week20:53
mhe0.6.2 numlock :)20:53
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leo-unglaubtilman: mpv?21:03
leo-unglaubi am giving it a try :)21:04
u7knv9hit's a fork of mplayer and mplayer221:04
u7knv9hi use it mainly because supports more subtitles types21:05
leo-unglaubi installed it, but it seams there is no gui21:06
rmullmpv is great21:07
u7knv9hyea21:09
u7knv9hit has a gui but a really simple one21:10
leo-unglaubhow can i activate the gui?21:10
u7knv9hand it isn't even necessary, everything can be done through keybindings21:10
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u7knv9hpass the mouse over the window lol21:10
leo-unglaubu7knv9h: thats not working21:10
leo-unglaubthats why i ask21:11
u7knv9hah21:11
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u7knv9hmaybe you built it without gui21:17
u7knv9hi don't even know if there's a flag for that21:17
u7knv9hlet me check21:17
u7knv9hoh, no, the version in the ports doesn't have the gui21:18
leo-unglaubsee ;) told you21:18
leo-unglaubon the screen of the website there is a gui21:18
u7knv9hweird, meybe it's --disable-joystick?21:19
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u7knv9hleo-unglab: yes, it's --disable-joystick21:35
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leo-unglaubthanks!21:35
u7knv9hreplace --disable-joystick with --enable-joystick in the Pkgfile21:35
u7knv9hno problem ;)21:35
u7knv9hwhat the fu my mouse suddenly stopped working21:39
koriweird. I can't get any version of audacity to compile21:40
korithere's wyatt's port but it complains about not having waf...21:40
u7knv9hwhat error do you get?21:42
u7knv9hcool, restarted xorg and now my mouse works21:42
koriu7knv9h: it says its missing waf but I have all the dependencies that are listed installed21:43
u7knv9hwhich port are you using?21:45
koriu7knv9h: wyatt's21:47
korihold on21:47
koriu7knv9h:21:48
korihttp://crux.nu/portdb/index.php?q=audacity&a=search21:48
koriusername is 'df'21:49
u7knv9hmh i don't have wxgtk installed so right now i can't try to compile it21:54
u7knv9hanyway, i don't think waf is a dependency21:54
u7knv9husually it's a script for building the package21:54
u7knv9hlike in mpv21:54
u7knv9hbut there's no waf lol21:55
u7knv9hkori: can you paste the error at dpaste.com ?21:55
koriu7knv9h: sprunge?22:00
korihttp://sprunge.us/NPIa22:01
korianyway, I'm leaving now22:01
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u7knv9hi don't know try to mail the mantainer or the packager, or try another port22:09
u7knv9hsorry :/22:09
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BitPuffinprologic: I'm also making my own lang now :P23:39
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BitPuffinactually that's probably too offtopic, moving to pm instead23:40
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