IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2015-02-11

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rmullGetting this failure when building webkitgtk, any ideas?
rmullI'll try rebuilding enchant to see if it does anything03:00
rmullHuh, that failed too, with the same issue...03:01
rmullwill try revdep03:01
greduanoh god03:01
greduan99% and boom it fails03:01
greduanthat must suck03:01
rmullI use ccache, so it's not the end of the world03:02
rmullBut yeah, could have been really annoying :P03:02
greduangod I need ccache. lol03:03
rmullIt's super easy to set up. If you have a spare chunk of HDD space there's no reason not to use it.03:04
greduanwill look into it then03:21
greduansleepy time03:43
greduangood night03:43
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rmullugh, wtf is going on with my system03:46
rmullnothing unusual in revdep, adding -fPIC to CFLAGS doesn't fix it03:50
rmullI remove enchant and reinstalled it (rather than simply upgrading) and that fixed the build for enchant...03:55
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.1]: docker: 1.4.0 -> 1.5.004:34
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.1]: docker: Added UPGRADE (Upgrade Notes)04:51
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tilmanrmull: does it install libs? maybe it tried to link the old installed copy rather than the new one in the source/build tree06:19
Worksterlibenchant.a not compiled with -fPIC06:23
Worksternever had that issue tilman06:23
Worksteror i guess enchant was06:24
Worksterrmull, i do have packages of webkit06:25
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.1]: docker: Updated UPGRADE notes08:40
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rmulltilman: That's my only guess, seeing as when I removed it it was able to link properly11:44
Romsteroops i never cottoned onto mode setting as being a package of it's own.11:56
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: ccache: 3.2 -> 3.2.113:03
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greduanGood morning :)14:02
frinnstyou are all cheaters! pay me money!14:06
greduanJust finished reading that14:15
greduanI get what they're saying but they don't have to be so pushy about it, IMO14:16
greduanThey're using the GPL for crying out loud. GPL ~= no money for simply using the software.14:16
jaegerI'm kinda of the opinion that if they offer the $0 option they can't complain when people take it14:17
greduanThat too14:18
jaegerI understand feeling like your work is worth something, sure... but they did it to themselves14:19
greduanBefore that, I was gonna say, for some reason I feel like in the end all that'll be left will be *BSD.14:21
Romster"or developers will have to resort to backdoor deals and advertising"14:21
Romsterthat right there makes me not wanna even touch there compiled stuff.14:21
Romsterwhos to say they don't patch before compiling14:22
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greduanAnyone here have experience with the *BSDs?14:56
diversegreduan: actually, the GPL allows people to sell the open sourced software, but what they aren't allowed to do, is never distribute the app in question freely as well. However what's morally wrong (in the GPL sense), is the idea of making users feel "that they’re pretty much cheating the system when they choose not to pay for software" which is total bullshit. This is just to mislead the user emotionally into14:56
diversebuying what's legally free as an option. But just because it's GPL, doesn't mean it has to be only free, nor doesn't it prevent people from using propaganda.14:56
EmoSpice_greduan: some. Why?14:57
greduandiverse: Right. What they are doing is essentially violating RS' wishes. I wonder if he'll have something to say about it...14:57
greduanEmoSpice: Just curious. Before I switched to CRUX I tried FreeBSD but had trouble getting X to work so I gave up14:58
diversenothing he can do about it, unless he makes a GPLv414:58
diverseand people would have to switch to that14:58
diverseso, it's pointless already14:58
greduanexcept Linux which'll stay v2 forever14:58
diversethe kernel will, yeah, because it's the author's choice14:59
diversesame goes with any developer, they can choose what license they want14:59
EmoSpiceThough the RedHat system, whereby you're buying the support not the "system" is interesting. I wish they'd give away their OS too though15:00
EmoSpice(and by that I mean "access to their updates", which you currently need a license for)15:01
diversegreduan: as I said, it's propaganda, it's how they get around things.15:01
greduanEmoSpice: Oh you need a license for the updates? that's something I didn't know15:02
frinnstits "nobodys choice" to keep linux at gplv2. its impossible to change it pretty much because it was licenced gplv2 from the start15:02
frinnstv2 and only v215:02
greduanwell with the whole gplv3 Linus opposed to it greatly and he made sure Linux is v2 and only v2 forever.15:03
diversefrinnst: really, you would've thought rms would make gplv2 upgradeable to gplv3?15:03
greduanwell you can say gplv2 or higher15:04
diverseand besides Linus has mentioned about explicitly staying in gpl2 for the kernel15:04
frinnstyeah most projects are licensed as "gplv2 or newer" pretty much15:04
greduan"Also note that the only valid version of the GPL as far as the kernel15:04
greduanis concerned is _this_ particular version of the license (ie v2, not15:04
greduanv2.2 or v3.x or whatever), unless explicitly otherwise stated."15:04
greduanfrom the COPYING file15:04
frinnstalso many gnu projects require you to hand over copyright to fsf/gnu15:04
frinnstlinux is copyrighted by what, 10,000 people?15:05
greduanRS is too... what's the word?15:05
frinnstquite impossible to find everyone and make them agree to change the license15:06
diverseright and there are people who are anti-GPL to begin with15:06
frinnst <- pretty entertaining trolls15:06
greduanalthough that's what lets linux still be free15:07
greduanwere it another license there would undoubtedly be windows just mering the whole tree and making windows a tad bit more stable15:07
greduanif they accomodate for linux that is15:07
joacimfrinnst: do you hate freedom?!15:17
greduanthat's why I like bsd though15:18
greduanno gpl :D15:18
joacimi dont really care. people make too much noise about nothing.15:18
diversejoacim: I agree15:18
joacimthe only reason why I prefer the bsd licenses is because they tend to be shorter15:18
frinnsti'd never use bsd for a personal project15:22
frinnstmaybe if you want to make something standard15:23
rmullgpl is still good for true "community" projects but to attract attention from paid developers bsd is probably the way to go15:32
diversermull: you nailed it15:32
frinnstyeah because linux really lacks that15:32
rmullfrinnst: But at this point, I think people understand the free licences a little better15:33
rmullAnd it did start as a true community project15:33
rmullAnd it's too late to change it15:33
rmullfree software was still a new concept when linux was born15:34
frinnstIm not sure how many companies contribute to the bsd's15:34
diversenot many15:34
rmulllikely not as many as linux15:34
frinnstbut many of them use bsd to power their software and sell it for a fuckload15:34
frinnstnetapp for example15:34
thetornainbowor apple :)15:35
diversehey Sony, where's the ati driver for freebsd, huh?15:35
rmullbsds are really solid if you can have some expectations about the platform it will be running on15:35
joacimi think my fapple airport extreme identify itself as netbsd15:35
rmullGeneral purpose computing is often too diverse15:35
rmullAnd I would say that they are both more reliable and more secure than linux is, but at the expense of performance15:36
frinnstare there *any* numbers to support that bsds are more secure?15:37
rmullwell, openbsd at least.15:37
rmulland probably netbsd.15:37
frinnstyeah but they disable *15:37
rmullI don't know very much about freebsd, because I've never used it15:37
frinnstits not hard to lock down something with 3 features15:37
rmullYes, but a secure but spartan default is better than a leaky kitchen sink, IMHO15:38
joacimfrinnst: 85.8 more secure15:38
frinnstsure unless you need those features for something15:38
rmullBut it's like crux. You're required to know what you want, and you accept the liability by turning things on.15:39
rmullI don't think the license is necessarily why one should choose bsd over linux or vice versa though15:41
rmullWhich was the original discussion15:41
rmullUnless it's for business15:41
diversermull: thank you15:41
rmullI guess there are some gpl haters out there (like #suckless) that try to avoid it because of its inherent hypocrisy15:41
rmullAnd kudos to them for having principles15:42
rmullBut I don't agree that the hypocrisy is unacceptable.15:42
greduanwhat does this mean?
rmullIt means whatever you just plugged in isn't going to be working15:43
greduanguessed as much15:43
rmullwhat was it?15:43
greduanis it physically borked?15:43
greduanjust a USB stick15:43
greduanreal real old one15:43
rmullDo other USB sticks work?15:43
rmullwell, yes, it could be borked, but maybe try a different port on the machine too15:43
rmullAnd before scrapping it, try it on a windows machine15:44
greduanI was told to test it because a friend couldn't get it to work on Windows15:44
rmulloh, heh15:44
rmullYou could physically inspect it for defects - maybe there is corrosion on the 4 USB contacts or something15:45
greduanyep it don't work15:45
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rmullcorrosion can be scraped or sanded off15:47
greduanthere's probably corrosion, I'll check it out15:48
rmullgood luck15:50
rmullusually simply circuits don't have too many age-related issues, but corrosion and debris can happen15:50
joacimI had a usb sstick die because the plastic on the back of the contacts got bent15:51
thetornainbowor pocket lint15:51
joacimnow i only buy thumb drives that have a proper metal shield15:52
rmullI have the kind that is the width of a USB connector tab and takes a microSD card for the actual storage15:53
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greduanthere's contrib/console-font-terminus, contrib/xorg-font-terminus, prologic/xorg-font-terminus, bdfy/terminus-font and cruxab/terminus-font17:40
greduanwhy so many versions?17:40
jaegerpresumably the ones outside contrib are there because their authors wanted to do something different with the port17:45
greduanwhy so many inside contrib though?17:46
greduani.e. 2. lol17:48
greduan and they both look to be practically the same, only one or two lines actually differ17:49
diversesigh, greduan, re-read the port names and take another guess which each are for.17:50
greduanone is for xorg and the other is for the terminal, which from what I can tell it would be the virtual console?17:52
greduanI see17:53
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diversehey z3bra, could you take a chance to update tox?20:41
z3braoh, yeah!20:46
z3braDo you use it a lot ?20:46
z3brathanks for the reminder20:47
diversewell I have been trying to get my friend to use again, but I thought having it updated after a while is a good idea.20:53
diverseno problem on the reminder20:56
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diversez3bra: sometimes I have an itch to want to update stuff :)20:59
z3brahaha that's a good habit I guess21:01
diversez3bra: hmm, utox is failing to build for me21:05
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z3braI must say I did not try to build em21:08
z3brawhat's that "filteraudio"21:11
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diverseI really don't know21:11
diversez3bra: the question is, does utox build for you?21:13
diverseso they must of added a new dependency21:15
z3brathat's annoying21:17
diversehopefully it is worth it21:18
z3braI personally use ratox :P21:19
z3braleads to more fun21:19
z3bradbus filter_audio freetype libvpx openal v4l xext xrender21:19
z3brap  dependencies21:19
z3brano idea what "filter_audio" is21:19
z3brait's made by the tox guys21:20
z3braI'll port it21:21
diversemight as well :)21:21
z3braon your marks...21:21
diverseit's a tox product after all21:21
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z3braand it builds :)21:23
diversetime to ports -u21:23
z3brahold on21:23
z3brait's not up already21:23
diverseI will wait for your push21:23
z3braI'll just try to build utox21:24
z3brammmh.. doesn't build either21:24
diversewhat else is missing?21:25
z3brait's not because of a missing dep21:25
z3braports updated21:25
z3brabut utox doesn't build because of an error in the code21:25
diverseah, so it's the devs fault21:26
z3braI guess :)21:26
diverseat least he should have checked to see if it compiles before pushing it to master21:27
diversez3bra: huh utox built successfully?21:28
diversez3bra: are you using ccache?21:28
z3brai tried cloning the repo again21:29
diversetry remove utox and rebuilding it?21:30
z3brai did yeah21:30
diversetry rebuilding toxcore?21:31
z3brait's an error in the code21:32
z3brathey use an undefined variable21:32
diverse...but it just builds for me(TM)21:33
z3braI'll try21:34
z3braah, I forgot to pkgadd -u toxcore ><21:34
z3brait builds now21:34
diverseah hah21:34
diverselooks like they marked utox as alpha now, when you run it21:35
z3brathat's nice21:36
diversez3bra: thanks for taking care of filter_audio21:39
z3brano problem21:40
z3bracrux made it really easy;)21:40
z3bradamn I love this distro21:40
z3brait's so easy to package things21:40
z3braparticularly if there is a git repo21:40
z3braI'm pretty surprised that there is no ditro with a git-based package manager21:41
z3brathis would make things pretty simple21:41
z3brausing tags to get versions21:42
z3braand such21:42
tilmanz3bra: would be even better if github supported git-archive =)21:42
tilman(or rather, if you could run git-archive against github repos)21:42
z3brait does not ?21:43
tilmandon't think so21:43
z3branever heard of git archive before21:43
tilmanit's been a long while since i tried it though21:43
z3bradoes it creates a tarball or something?21:43
z3bra(that's what I though you were talking about)21:43
tilmanit can create tarballs and zip files i think21:44
tilmanit's the bestest way to package up the contents of any git tree21:44
tilmaneg if you want to create source packages for distribution21:44
z3braoh yeah21:45
z3brawell, cgit handle it for me21:45
diversesounds very convenient21:45
z3brabut I must say I didn't know there was a git command to do that21:45
z3bratilman, does it only works with tagged commits?21:45
jaegeryeah, it works with github21:45
jaegershould work with any git repo21:45
tilmanoh cool21:46
tilmanjaeger: nit pick: should work against git-daemon i think21:46
jaegerI bet it does if you use --remote21:46
tilmanor maybe it even does with git-over-http21:46
jaegerI only tested with my local checkout, though21:46
tilmani'm mostly talking about its *remote* usage here21:47
jaegerah :)21:47
tilmanie, i'd like to ask github to package up repo foo at tag bar for me21:47
tilmanso i don't have to clone it myself21:47
tilmansorry, i should have clarified earlier ;D21:47
diversethat would be nice and you can md5 it as well21:47
teK_doing this they could fix archive names, too21:47
teK_they affirmed my request to do that. Have not heard back ever since21:48
jaegertilman: I see, yes, that would be nice21:48
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prologicgreduan, no idea :)22:26
greduangreduan: no idea to what?22:26
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