IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2015-02-24

greduan1installing Atom is such a pain00:01
greduan1anyone here installed it?00:01
prologichappy with vim :)00:07
prologicbut plan to try nvim out (neo-vim)00:07
korineovim is nice00:08
greduan1I wish the .deb package was statically linked00:16
greduan1I'm so sad00:16
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cezarnwe: there?00:26
rmulljaeger: Yeah... could be, but xcb isn't configurable, whereas alsa is - I was messing with asoundrc and managed to play a video without sound, once, but then it started crashing again00:29
rmullOther than building xcb, what could I do if this was an xcb issue?00:30
jaegerno idea, honestly, haven't seen that one myself00:34
greduan1what was the thing to check the battery?00:34
IgneousI've always used acpi -V00:37
IgneousI think you can get a plaintext version that you need to do a bit of math with from /proc as well00:38
Igneous/proc/acpi/bat or something along those lines00:38
prologicaww yeah00:46
prologicour nas is shipping tomorrow00:46
prologicand comes with the newer ES-1231 chip00:47
prologicwoot :)00:47
greduan1cool :)00:54
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greduan1Romster: wazzat?02:08
Romstergit stastics02:08
greduan1for what?02:09
greduan1I see02:10
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prologiccrux is basically maintained by jue and tilman :)02:13
prologicthey work really hard we should be grateful02:13
greduan1is Juergen a German name?02:24
greduan1I've a friend by the same name02:24
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jaegerlovely, another project with the same name as something else :P04:28
prologicsame name as?04:47
jaegerthe xorg 2d acceleration stuff04:48
prologicahh of course04:49
diversewell, I thought it was cool04:54
jaegerThe idea is fine04:54
jaegerAnyone used 2bwm and bspwm both? Curious which one you (whoever) preferred05:01
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diverse(It would be much faster for you to try them out yourself)05:09
jaegerI'm too tired to fuck with them tonight, that's why I asked. I do intend to look at both05:09
jaegerI recall z3bra likes or liked 2bwm but I don't know about bspwm05:10
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tilmanprologic: i'm not even doing anything06:21
prologictilman, I was commenting about the gitstats Romster psoted :)07:22
prologicand looknig at the author precentages of various collections :)07:22
Romsterwell that was then, tilman still masks xorg fro long time xorg maintainer.07:26
Romsterin lines of code and commits07:27
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: mpg123: update to 1.22.011:33
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retardhas there been a sufficiently large shitstorm regarding the addition of start-stop-daemon to the core ports yet13:08
retardi and several others are feeling doubleplusungood about this13:08
frinnstand only whiny complaints, nothing that any of us pay any attention to13:09
retardi love crux and depend on it, and this is a step in a very bad direction13:09
retardwhat do i need to do to be heard and taken seriously13:09
frinnstconcrete complaints and not something like "bohoo, i dont like X make it go away"13:09
frinnstor suggest a better solution13:10
frinnstand its not a "step" in any direction13:10
frinnstits a tool that does a job that needs doing13:10
retarddpkg is a tool that does a job that needs doing13:10
retarddoes this mean crux will switch to apt?13:10
retardbut fine13:11
frinnstthe thread on the mailinglist made me lose interest quite quickly13:11
retardi see what you're saying13:11
frinnstdont be so paranoid :)13:11
Romsteri've already expressed my opinions on that matter in #crux-devel and so have others.13:11
retardmy systems requiring console access to be fixed after a reboot tends to leave me pretty damn gumpy13:12
frinnstswitching ssh and perhaps some other ports to ssd was a mistake13:12
frinnstintroducing ssd was not13:12
retardmaking ssd a core port was13:12
Romsteri'm more anoied that sshd will break as user may not have installed start-stop-daemon13:12
frinnstyes, that was the mistake13:12
frinnstthat should have been changed during a release13:13
Romsteryes but since it's too late for that can we revery sshd or bump pkgadd.conf to not blindly replace /etc/rc.d/ scripts?13:13
jueretard: have you any concret bugs/issues with ssd?13:14
jueRomster: why is it too late to revert the change?13:14
Romsteror will the /etc/pkgadd.cofn itself get stuck in rejmerge too.13:14
frinnsti was under the impression the default was *not* to overwrite stuff in rc.d, but maybe im alone in having changed this years and years ago on my systems13:14
retardjue: my biggest issue is that it ruins the transparency of init scripts, it turns it into a black box - and to figure out what goes on i need to comb through a huge source tree13:15
Romsternothing regardingthe rest of ^etc/rc\.d/.*13:16
jueretard: would it be better to have 100 lines of sh code?13:16
retardjue: unequivocably yes13:16
frinnsti really disagree with that, retard13:16
Romsteri disagree with that... keep a small script/service to do it.13:16
frinnsti much prefer ssd over a fucking horrible rhel6 init-script13:17
Romsteri'm only mad at the breakage of sshd and new core port that not everyone will notice.13:17
retardkeep a small script/service to do it, sure13:17
Romsterto install.13:17
Romsteranyways... back to what i was doing.13:17
retarddon't make the dpkg source tree a part of the core crux package set13:18
jueretard: who said that we ever use anything else than start-stop-daemon from it?13:19
retardthose 100 lines of sh code do not need to be inline in every single rc script13:19
Romstercrux != debian13:19
frinnstthis is just silly..13:20
frinnstso much bitching about a 33kb binary13:21
Romsterretard, we wont be using any dpkg13:21
juesorry, I'm really bugged about the whole ssh init script drama13:21
frinnstyeah me too13:21
cruxbot[core.git/3.1]: Revert "openssh: improved rc script, drop rsa1 key creation"13:21
frinnstIf you dont like crux, dont use it13:21
retardi understand the need for something that can replicate the functionality you want.13:21
frinnstThats pretty much my answer to this hole crap13:21
retardi love crux.13:21
Romsteror do as others do maintain your own package of openssh13:22
retardRomster: i already do, i have a openssh-hpn package in my repo13:22
frinnstyes i know romster. you know that thing aboud not throwing stones in glass houses?13:22
Romsternope never got that memo13:23
frinnstyou dont want me to start correcting your spelling :-)13:23
Romsteranyways think everyone needs a chill pill.13:23
frinnstnah. just need to improve my opinion-filter'13:24
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retardbreaking my systems is great way of getting my attention13:35
retardwhat are the new dependencies introduced in core lately?13:35
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Romsteronly that one.13:36
greduan1morning :)13:38
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retardwas something like say considered?13:43
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retardwas the reason for choosing ssd just wanting to be able to grab debian init scripts?13:44
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mechaniputerretard, I doubt it. That does not seem like a sustainable thing to do in light of recent events.13:51
retardthat's what strikes me too, which leaves me wondering "why ssd"13:51
Romsterretard, no the reason was because
retarda c port of a perl script, a part of a major competing distro, hugely complex13:52
retardfor what it does13:52
rmullWhile we're on the topic of init scripts, can we get a postgresql init script that works? :P14:04
rmullI still haven't figured mine out14:04
rmullI have to run it twice14:04
rmullsomething permissions related14:05
mechaniputerLooking at the ssd source, it does seem somewhat excessively complex for what we need it to do.14:14
mechaniputerIt has all sorts of stuff for Hurd and BSD kernels.14:14
retardi've been reading through it the last while14:14
mechaniputerI don't see it as fundamentally bad, but it certainly could be smaller.14:15
retardif what is needed is simply maintaing a pid file and allowing an attempt at graceful shutdown followed by a less merciful kill when stopping a service i think this could be achieved by a fairly trivial sh script14:16
jaegerTo me the benefit is a bit more consistency in our init scripts and some quality of life changes that it handles like waiting for pids to die, etc.14:16
jaegernothing huge but helpful14:16
jaeger$0 stop; sleep 2; $0 start <-- this sort of thing has always bugged me a bit14:18
mechaniputerAgreed, this is a good thing to have and I won't argue that we should choose something else. But ssd is pretty big for what we use want to do, and there's the question of how well maintained it will be in the future.14:18
rmulljaeger: Can't we just change the init script to do that better?14:18
jaegerundoubtedly. start-stop-daemon was already there, though14:19
retardor write a simple wrapper script14:19
rmullI think the wrapper script idea might be nice... it doesn't take much, as far as I know14:19
rmullThat's got my vote.14:20
rmullCrux leads through its simplicity, and if it takes NIH and work to maintain simplicity, it's our responsibility to our community to do it14:21
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mechaniputerrmull, I would be happier with that. That's why I switched to CRUX full time in the first place.14:22
jaegerI think the benefits of start-stop-daemon outweigh the stigma but obviously not everyone agrees14:22
mechaniputerjaeger, I think overall that something like it is needed but I prefer something more trimmed down to our needs. I think it is a good idea.14:23
jaegerI have no objection to that, certainly. It's not there yet, though.14:23
retardi'll gladly knock something out14:24
Romstermechaniputer, btw i got jue to bump up rsync to 3.0 branch for kde... waiting on you to make a 3.1 branch to get it upto speed.14:24
rmullretard: Maybe establish a list of features, get some feedback here and on the mailing list, and then go from there?14:28
mechaniputerRomster, I don't know why you are talking to me about that. I don't know what you are talking about.14:28
rmullmechaniputer: DONT PLAY DUMB14:29
mechaniputerAre you trying to use sarcasm say that since I'm only a user that I should stay out of this debate?14:31
rmullNo, I was making jokes about romsters misdirected message14:32
rmullcarry on14:32
jaegeryou can't joke in here! This is serious business (TM)!14:32
mechaniputerRomster, what's up?14:32
Romstermechaniputer, alan14:33
mechaniputerYou might be looking for the other person named Alan.14:33
Romsteror are you not the same alan as the ident i see14:33
mechaniputerNot the same.14:34
Romsteroh sorry.14:34
Romsterthought it was alancio with an alternative nickname14:34
Romstersome people do, do that.14:34
mechaniputerNope. I'm only mechaniputer in here.14:35
Romstermy bad.14:35
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greduanarduo uses Emacs, interesting15:37
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retardrsync on seems down16:27
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jaegerthe host DC seems to be having some trouble16:29
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nwegood evening18:52
greduanhey new19:15
nwegreduan: how are you?19:16
greduanand you?19:16
nweIm fine thanks.. sitting here and take a glas wine and sketch how my new network and firewall will be19:17
greduanI'm just watching a CSGO livestream19:19
nweCSGO ?19:22
retard.. any particular reason chpasswd is deleted from the shadow core port?19:25
nweretard: dunno..19:28
retardoh well, imma hack a chpasswd port19:35
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greduannwe: sorry for not answering didn't notice you asked something. CSGO = Counter Strike: Global Offensive, a competitive FPS21:22
greduanFPS = First Person Shooter21:23
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nweoh okey :)21:26
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jaegerIt's amazing that CS is still around21:48
greduanWell Valve is leading in PC gaming so yeah21:49
greduannot because they make a lot of games21:49
greduanbut because they are the biggest platform for games21:49
greduanwith Steam21:49
jaegerI remember playing it in 199921:49
greduanI haven't played the original21:50
greduanI did play Portal (not 2)21:50
greduanI also need to play Half Life21:50
nwejaeger: I played cs 1.3 I quit when cs 1.6 came out =)21:53
greduanI said I didn't play Portal 2, I did, I was just saying that I played the original Portal21:54
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rmullRomster: youtube-dl could use a bump, new version string is 2015.02.24.2, footprint will change23:31
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JSchilli1considering the whole start-stop-daemon fiasco, what does the dev team think about runit? i'll admit i don't know very much about it but it seems like it's intended to be a more modern replacement for sysv, which is why i'm a little curious about it23:55
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jaegerwe've talked a bit about it and finit but nothing more than that so far23:56
koriI have a spec for a service manager23:58
korithat I'd like to actually develop and present it you guys as a viable choice23:58
koriit would require go to be moved to core, though23:59
koriso that would be a thing23:59

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