IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2015-03-04

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hltjaeger: is there a huge difference installing from the -updated iso? it's taking too long to download :|00:13
jawbohlt: not particularly, just longer to build all the ports that need updating00:14
jawbothe updated iso would have a lot less that need updating00:15
jaegerhlt: what jawbo says; it's just updated packages00:15
jawboupdated needs less updating :)00:15
hltright, guess i'll wait, almost 60% now00:15
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cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: elementary-xfce-icon-theme: cleanup the Pkfgile01:58
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: exo: Cleanup the Pkgfile01:58
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: thunar: cleanup the Pkgfile01:58
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: ristretto: Cleanup the Pkgfile01:58
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: xfwm4-themes: Cleanup the Pkgfile01:58
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: xfwm4: Cleanup the Pkgfile01:58
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: xfburn: Cleanup the Pkgfile01:58
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: xfce4-appfinder: Cleanup the Pkgfile01:58
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: xfce4-appfinder: adding --disable-nls01:58
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: tumbler: Cleaning the Pkgfile01:58
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: thunar-volman: Cleanup the Pkgfile01:58
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: thunar-vcs-plugin: Cleanup the Pkgfile01:58
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: xfce4-terminal: Cleanup the Pkgfile02:07
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cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: xfce4-taskmanager: Update to 1.1.0 and use GTK302:17
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pidsleygood thing i don't use xfce02:24
pidsleyor gtk302:24
greduanlol ikr02:26
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pidsleysave me from DEs in active development02:58
Romsterpidsley, long time no see02:58
pidsleyhey Romster02:58
pidsleydidn't think anyone remembered me :)02:59
pidsleyi thank you for ccache and distcc03:00
pidsleyi moved crux from my atom to a core2quad03:02
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pidsleymade a large difference :)03:02
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Romsterah i seen your nick here before.03:04
Romsteri bet it would03:04
pidsleyccache makes a huge difference in my buildroot rebuilds03:05
Romsteri also use ccache in docker from my host.03:06
pidsleyhave not played with docker yet -- i see you guys loving on it03:06
Romsterit depends on /var/cache/ccache of my host. but you can change it to where ever.03:07
pidsleyi will have to try that03:07
Romsteri also added -v for bind mounting ports and packages03:08
Romsterand pkgbuild logs03:08
pidsleyi have more disk space than memory, so ccache works well03:08
Romster14.2GB in my ccache03:08
Romsterso far03:08
Romsterand that's fairly heavy use minus any DEs03:08
pidsleyonly 6G mwemory on the quad03:09
Romster8GB here but with 64GB swap03:09
Romsterwell 72GB total03:09
Romster16GB off 4 disks prio=003:09
pidsleyyou guys all have more powerful machines than mine03:09
Romsterand another small one elsewhere.03:10
Romsteronly a phenom II 965 3.4GHz probably get beaten by an I703:10
Romsterbut what makes up for it is the -j24 distcc03:10
Romsteri should be near 32 cores when i'm done with these other machines.03:11
Romsterthere not that flash but they all count.03:11
Romsterand why not when they are just given away03:12
Romstercrux on atom would be too painful without a host to build packages on03:13
pidsleyi could bring all mine online, but it doesn't really make that much difference, in my tests03:13
Romsterwhat have you got?03:13
Romsterall mine have at least 3GB ram03:13
Romster2GB wasn't quite enough03:13
pidsleyon the atom i can build almost everything except firefox, and i can buiild that if i let it run overnight :)03:14
rmullI've got an atom now03:14
rmullBut it's an octocore monster03:14
rmullwith 16G RAM03:15
pidsleyi have the quad, and a core2duo, and an athlon x2, and a dual-core pentium, and some other single-core machines03:15
Romster4x core2 (3x 2GHz 1x 2.7GHz), 1x 2GHz xeon quadcore, 1 Q6600 quadcore, 2x phemon II (1x 3.4GHZ 1x 2.4GHz).03:15
pidsleysee that makes distcc worthwile03:16
Romsterok i'm ahead here them03:16
Romsterand i got 4 more core2s i think i have enough parts for.03:16
pidsleyit really doesn't make much difference here03:17
Romsterit's only as fast as the slowest machine holding it back03:17
pidsleyi noticed that03:17
RomsterDISTCC_HOSTS="--randomize arkanoid.local/4 space.local/4 fire_new.local/4 xeon.local/4 cluster1.local/2 cluster2.local/2 cluster3.local/2 cluster4.local/2"03:17
Romsteralso --randomize03:17
Romsteri was using pump mode too but, found that to be too unreliable.03:18
Romsteralso ccache CCACHE_COMPILERCHECK="%compiler% -dumpversion; crux"03:18
pidsleythe core2quad does an adequate job by itself03:18
Romstersaved me the issue of multiple crux versions and gcc versions caching wrong results.03:18
pidsleybut i did notice a large help with ccache and buildroot03:19
Romsterjob done03:19
pidsleyrebuilding minor changes03:19
Romsteryeah you'll find the althon probably holes it back more than the core2 will03:19
Romsternote that i recently started usng A records in unbound dns cache03:20
pidsleythe core2 is much better than the athlon, to be sure03:20
Romstergot sick of keeping /etc/hosts in sync on all the boxes03:20
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Romsteri used to have a k7 until it died03:20
pidsleyi had a phenom x4, but it is crap03:21
Romsterand the cpu never did the motherboard went funny on the PCI interface.03:21
Romstersome were03:21
pidsleyslower than the core2duo03:21
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Romsterbut then the later offerings from AMD are crappy too.03:21
pidsleynvdia graohics, so the worst of both worlds ;)03:21
Romsteri'd say I7 at this stage unless amd pulls there head of of there behinds03:22
pidsleythe phenom is in the closet03:22
Romsteri use nvidia03:22
pidsleyi want an i703:22
pidsleyone of these days ...03:22
pidsleyintel rules03:22
Romsterand binary blob driver i've tried an ATi card it was too new for linux drivers.03:22
Romsterhate ATi until they have reliable linux drivers03:23
Romsterfor /new/ cards03:23
pidsleyi don't use the proprietary on my amd machines03:23
Romsterintel for video is ok for low end.03:23
Romstertry steam on linux with that.03:23
pidsleyi don't game, or care otherwise03:24
Romsteri'm on a GTX750 Ti black edition 2GB GDDR5 ram03:24
pidsleyonly have old 4x3 monitors03:24
Romsterand then others are on the GTX9xx series.03:24
Romstercan't see the point of that much GPU power for what i do.03:24
pidsleyi have an hd5450, sitting on the shelf :)03:25
Romsterwhy not use it?03:25
pidsleydon't need it03:25
Romsterfair enough03:25
Romstersell it on ebay then?03:25
pidsleyi should03:25
pidsleyone day i might want it :)03:26
Romsterbefore it depreciates more03:26
Romstereh then you just get a newer model03:26
pidsleybought it to try to build an xbmc machine03:26
Romsterand fight with drivers03:26
pidsleythis is why i stick with intel03:27
pidsleydoes what i need03:27
pidsleyalways works03:27
Romsteri would if i didn't steam03:27
pidsleyi am too old for steam :)03:27
Romsteri'm 3603:28
pidsleyold fart03:28
Romsteryou probably have dosbox there <<03:28
pidsleyi used cp/m in the day03:28
Romsteri have dos games too03:28
Romsteri used it later and ms-dos and basic03:28
Romsterdatatapes i missed the punch card era and bbs03:29
pidsleyi do a lot of things in the console03:29
Romsteri'm gonna go enjoy some sun outside, been at the pc for awhile except for a quick trip to get some food03:30
pidsleygo outside03:30
Romsteryeah i plan to now03:31
Romsterneeda break am on holidays after all03:31
pidsleyit is dark here, but was a nice sunny day today03:31
pidsleyand will be again tomorrow03:31
Romsteryesterday was perfect today sunny windy was overcast03:31
pidsleyyour ports will wait :)03:32
Romsteryeah no rush on this one03:32
Romsterfreash mind is always better03:33
greduanso isn't pidsley the oldest one here now?03:35
pidsleyoh crap03:35
pidsleywhat do i win?03:35
pidsleyall you millennilals03:36
pidsleygreduan stays silent ...03:39
greduansorry I was fullscreen somewhere else03:39
greduanyou win boasting rights03:39
greduanboasting works too I guess03:39
pidsleycan still crux at my age :)03:39
greduanYou are more tech savvy than my mom03:40
greduanwho is also in her fifties, btw03:41
pidsleyi have a long history with computers03:41
greduanwhere you from?03:42
greduanI would speak to you in a much more respectful manner if English had other words for "you".03:42
pidsleyonly been using Linux since 201203:42
greduanIn Spanish we have "tu" for you and "usted" for a you that's towards an older person or a higher-up03:43
greduanoh damn!03:43
pidsleychinese has that concept as well03:43
pidsleyelders :)03:43
greduanso you're Chinese?03:43
pidsleyno, american, but i have chinese friends03:43
greduanah cool03:44
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pidsleygreduan: you are spanish?03:47
greduanI am Mexican03:47
greduanAnd now Italian as well03:47
greduanGot citizenship in those countries03:47
pidsleyi saw you arguing about chicken footprints :)03:48
greduanI was talking about the old German alphabet03:48
greduanLike before the 50s or something03:48
pidsleyi have an online friend who is italian03:48
greduanoh cool!03:48
pidsleywrites better english than most americans i know03:49
greduanI only have the citizenship because of my grandpa though. I don't know any Italian.03:49
greduanpidsley: Yes. I hate that that's something that happens. lol03:49
greduanNot to be an asshole, but I do feel like I have a better grasp on the English language than most other teens my age03:50
pidsleypeople who write english as a second language take more care with it03:50
greduanyeah that's also the case03:50
greduanmost other teens my age that are native English speaking03:50
pidsleymost native english speakers don't care how they butcher the language03:51
greduanwhat are your thoughts on figuratively literal?03:52
pidsleyi was a technical editor for many years, so you can imagine03:52
greduanhow much swearing are you OK with? just so I know how emotive I can be. lol03:53
pidsleyi *hate* the abuse of "literally"03:53
greduanI hate it too03:53
greduanso so bad03:53
pidsleyand all the your you're their they're there03:54
greduangrammar is the difference between knowing your shit, and knowing you're shit03:54
pidsley^ ha !03:54
pidsleywell said03:54
greduanmy favorite quote on the matter03:55
greduantime for me to sleep, but I'll see you again tomorrow?03:55
greduanwe can continue to bash on teens these days :P03:55
pidsleyi may be here -- i only come on rarely03:56
greduanah I see03:56
pidsleyi read the logs though03:56
pidsleyhave a good sleep03:56
greduanI'll just speak to you then, while you're away03:56
greduangood night :)03:56
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pidsleyall these lurkers03:58
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leo-unglaubhey :)12:11
retardhey leo-unglaub12:12
retardfrign over in #2f30 has written a pure c bootloader for encrypted systems like you were talking about the other day12:12
retardjust fyi12:12
leo-unglaubreally? that sounds awesome12:13
diverse2f30? A unicode code-point?12:14
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: chromium: updated to 40.0.2214.115, cleaned up and also added .desktop file (FS#1141)12:35
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: gtk-xfce-engine: Update to 2.10.112:39
cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: chromium: fixed deps12:49
cruxbot[xfce.git/3.1]: gtk-xfce-engine: Cleanup the Pkgfile12:51
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diverseryuo: surprised to see you here14:09
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greduanmorning :)14:17
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rmullI have an interesting problem related to music playback glitching occasionally when a USB HDD containing FLAC files is used as the source of music, and a USB async DAC is used for playback, and both are plugged into the same USB3 hub14:33
rmullMy motherboard has USB2 and USB3 ports - if I keep the HDD on the USB3 hub attached to the USB3 port and plug my DAC into USB2 port, it works without glitching14:34
rmullGoogling around has informed me that linux might have issues with isochronous transfer over USB314:34
diversermull: just curious, what is the model of your motherboard?14:35
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rmulldiverse: Supermicro MBD-A1SRi-2758F14:39
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cruxbot[contrib.git/3.1]: docbook-xml: fix errors and no more post-install15:27
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.1]: glade romster -> contrib, updated to version 3.18.315:27
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.1]: gtksourceview: romster -> contrib, updated to version 3.14.315:27
cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: gobject-introspection: 1.40.0 -> 1.42.015:46
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korihey, we just merged a change to the git driver which makes it look more like the other drivers when updating17:41
onodera^ example17:46
diverseyou should ping the developers to get their attention17:49
diversejaeger: do you have any plans on integrating the git driver?17:51
diversethey have been putting in dedicated effort to making it work and because most port operations are using git anyway, it would make sense to make priority for its inclusion.18:08
teK_is it tested and stable?18:10
teK_as in really tested and really stable?18:10
rmullWhere's the link to the current version?18:11
rmullI'm using an old version that just merges with upstream to update18:11
onoderateK_: I've been using for a few months now (aka it work on my machine (TM))18:14
onodera@ rmull18:14
rmullonodera: Thanks18:14
diversekori: you got to put in your voice too18:15
rmullIs the sed stuff really necessary? Is the idea that scripts are parsing the output of ports -u and you don't want them to break?18:15
koridiverse: I already did18:15
koridiverse: see:
korirmull: the sed part is not really necessary but it was added to make updating *look* the same as httpup18:17
diversekori: add a comment to it, giving it an updated status18:17
koriteK_: by the way, it's tested, but in regards to stable, there's one question left18:18
korigit fetch and reset or git pull18:18
rmullI think I'm gonna stick with my git pull version18:19
koriwe could do git fetch and merge, as well?18:20
diversekori: also, in case if you didn't know, jaeger a while ago gave the okay-flag to use git pull, but I'll let him tell you that.18:20
tilmanjust use pull; it defaults to do a rebase rather than merge anyway these days i think18:20
koridiverse: I remember that, that's why I'm still wondering18:20
koriwhat about fetch and merge?18:23
koriapparently you can do local changes if you commit them and merge upstream later18:23
koriso that can be a thing too18:23
onodera <- didn't chromium get a desktop enty earlier today?18:29
cruxbot[opt.git/3.1]: gtk: updated to 2.24.2718:56
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rmullermm, I seem to have trouble with that new git driver19:10
rmullfatal: ambiguous argument 'master': unknown revision or path not in the working tree.19:10
rmullFirst, I removed the /usr/ports/contrib dir, then I let ports -u contrib clone the repo, then I did ports -u contrib to sync it, and I get this.19:10
rmullI don't think crux uses the master branch19:11
rmullThere, I tested it19:11
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leo-unglaubis it possible that the xorg ati driver is broken?19:12
leo-unglaubbecause i am getting EE no screens found with it19:12
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korirmull: wait a sec then19:14
onoderaI added a branch var19:16
onoderagimme a sec I'll create a pull request19:16
koriadding a BRANCH= var was one of the first things I thought about but then there was some discussion here and it was decided there was no point19:17
rmullI think that it makes more sense than hardcoding master branch, but I still think that pull is super simple and intuitive19:17
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onoderayou could easily create "stable" and "testing" branches too with this19:23
rmullonodera: Have you tried this with crux ports?19:28
rmullI don't think it's working19:29
rmullI'm going back to the git pull version, good luck19:29
onoderanope just with the 6c37 repo19:29
onoderaGive me a sec I'll try it19:29
rmullActually, hold on19:30
rmullSo I had a vim backup file called "git~" in the drivers dir19:31
rmullAnd ports was preferring it over "git"19:31
rmulland calling it19:31
rmullI think the driver is fine, sorry onodera19:33
onoderawhat branch should I use?19:34
rmullI opened a bug for the bad driver script match by ports19:38
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onoderaI moved all my my repos to the git driver19:54
onoderaI'll test it for a few days19:54
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teK_kori: git clone --depth=1, imho20:05
teK_i.e. screw the history. Dislaimer: I did not catch up what was written erlaier on that topic20:05
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rmullI like having the history in case I want to try a historic version, but I agree that they may not need to be synced automatically20:07
rmullWhen I need it, I can get it using git directly on the repo20:08
teK_let's not confuse tasks for ports(8)20:08
teK_it's task is to checkot out the (most) current version of a repository.20:09
teK_but that's just my pov20:09
rmullin other words, rsync-but-better20:09
teK_rsync but with a different protocol20:10
rmullWhat if repo committers GPG-sign their commits?20:15
rmullIf commits were signed and md5sums were replaced by a more secure hash, we'd have a good deal of confidence that our repos and the code we download aren't tampered with by an outsider20:18
greduana network of trust setup?20:18
teK_the current attacks on md5 do not apply to our situation, look them up20:22
rmullIsn't the idea that given an input that hashes to a known md5, a second input can than be generated that gives the same hash?20:27
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greduanalso aren't md5 hashes not the most secure?20:28
rmullThey aren't, and that's widely acknowledged, but see[0]=&sev[0]=&pri[0]=&due[0]=&reported[0]=&cat[0]=&status[0]=open&percent[0]=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=20:30
pidsleywow, long url20:31
rmullyeah, sorry about that20:32
rmullMy position on this debate is that the transition is not a difficult one and there is no reason to not strive to be technically superior20:33
pidsleythat is an old bug20:35
teK_rmull: the point is that the atacker cannot choose the input and create an arbitrary hash. The hash is pre-defined by us.20:35
rmullI see the point, it's just uncomfortable to be comfortable with something that is merely good enough20:38
rmullEspecially if the transition would be so easy20:40
greduanI do agree on a switch to 256 or at least start adding support20:40
pidsleybig argument in the crux channel over md5 vs shasum20:44
pidsleypidsley's basement smells like a black jellybean explosion :)20:45
rmullIt's been a debate for a long time20:45
greduanI don't quite get why it's a debate though20:45
greduanOne of these is clearly superior to the other20:46
rmullgreduan: I think if you can demonstrate an exploit, that will be enough to convince the naysayers20:46
pidsleybut sometimes the work to change might not be seen as worth it20:46
rmullThe patches are already done20:46
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greduanand they're backwards compatible right?20:47
rmullallows the use of either algo20:47
pidsleyrmull -- you are right about demonstrating an exploit20:47
rmullupgrading entire repos from md5 to sha256 would be a pretty straightforard script20:47
koriI feel a discussion that should happen that isn't really happening is openssl -> libressl20:47
greduanVoid Linux already made that change20:48
greduanprops to them20:48
rmulldoes it "just work?"20:48
onoderaaks z3bra he uses void20:48
rmullman, void's looking pretty good20:49
pidsleyrmull, why?20:49
rmullI hadn't checked it out before20:50
rmullJust glancing through their website now20:50
rmullseems like their package manager has a USE-flag-alike20:51
pidsleytneir package manager works well20:51
pidsleybut they don't have some thing i find useful in their packages20:52
pidsleyi can build from source, orf course20:52
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rmullwhat would you say is missing?20:53
pidsleyxbindkeys, for one20:53
rmulloh, you mean their repositories don't have enough software in them?20:54
rmullnot that their package manager is lacking features20:54
pidsleybut it has been a while since i used void20:54
pidsleyit is just not as extensible as crux20:55
rmullCan you use pkgutils with void?20:56
rmullI guess that would be pretty stupid20:56
pidsleynot really, i have installed ports on LFS :)20:57
pidsleyso yes, it would not be difficult20:57
greduanIf I could use lilo/syslinux with Void I'd be all for it. I hate GRUB.20:59
greduanalso if there was a guide for a manual install, i.e. no automatic installer thingy20:59
pidsleyi write my own grub configs21:00
pidsleyi hate os_prober21:00
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pidsley"manual creation"21:03
rmullI switched from grub to lilo when I switched to crux21:04
greduanlilo is more than I need21:04
pidsleyi have too many installs on my machines to use lilo happily21:05
pidsleyalthough i do like syslinux21:05
pidsleyi don't get the grub hate21:06
greduanI like syslinux cause it's simple but if I can get by with lilo, lilo is greaet21:06
greduangrub is hard to setup, configure and it breaks with every update for me. lol21:06
pidsleydifferent strokes21:07
pidsleyi have no problems with grub21:07
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pidsleybut i understand people who think it is too complicated21:07
koriI like lilo21:08
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koriI used to use syslinux on arch though21:08
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pidsleysyslinux works well on arch21:08
greduanyeah on arch syslinux is the best21:08
greduanat least for a single-boot Linux21:08
pidsleywhen i single-booted arch, i used syslinux21:08
koriI wanted to set up syslinux on CRUX but I got lazy so I just went with lilo instead21:09
onoderalilo looks nice21:09
koriI don't regret it even a tiny bit21:09
greduanlilo is nice21:09
onoderaand it is way easier/simpler than all the other bootloaders I've tried21:09
pidsleynice that we have so many choices21:09
teK_I am grateful that I did not have to switch to grub2 for my efi system (there's elilo)21:10
greduanI am glad to know that :D21:10
koriteK_: I am grateful my motherboard's legacy boot option is AWESOME21:10
pidsleyi don't go near uefi21:10
teK_so I "happened" to create a port for elilo :P21:10
onoderalilo even has a menu21:10
koriand I didn't have to set up any EFI shit at all21:10
pidsleyall old hardware here21:10
onoderawhich I found out because the menu is enabled by default on arch's lilo21:10
koriI was actually pretty pissed off when my motherboard died and I had to switch to an UEFI motherboard21:11
koribut this one is nice.21:11
teK_I have windows 7 on this particular machine so I took the EFI path21:11
greduanI have a BIOS setup but iirc this motherboard is UEFI capable...21:11
onoderasame here21:12
onoderais uefi better in any way?21:12
pidsleypidsley is also waiting for this answer ...21:16
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JSchilli1i'm using grubwith bios LOL21:18
JSchilli1i'd be using lilo but... btrfs21:18
pidsleythen you have many other problems :)21:19
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JSchilli1i want to use uefi stub but i'm scared of partitioning and all that again21:19
JSchilli1i think i'll wait for 3.2 when dosfstools is bundled and then i'll just do it on the initial install21:20
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lmarieHello folks.  Thanks for the xfce version upgrade!  Mousepad text editor won't compile with current xfce lib.  Error log:
lmarieLetting you know.  I was able to install geany and also have vim at my disposal.22:42
frinnstwhat does "prt-get fsearch" say?22:46
frinnstalso please paste the output from "prt-get fsearch" if the above command doesnt return any hits22:47
frinnstyou might also try to run a "revdep"22:47
lmarieHi frinnst, no output for the first command.  pkginfo -l libxfce4util  part : usr/lib/22:48
frinnstok, so i'd guess "revdep" will return one or many broken ports that needs to be rebuilt22:49
frinnstsomething thats needed for mousepad was built against an older libxfceutil and that breaks the linking22:50
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lmarieYep.  Is revdep called from prt-get or pkgmk, or?  Looking at the man pages22:51
frinnstits a command thats part of prtutils22:52
frinnstuseful for finding broken stuff22:52
frinnstprt-utils asdf22:52
lmarieInstalling it now.22:53
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