IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2015-08-31

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Romsterkori, http://pastebin.com/AFPtiPP0 icecat wont build02:33
Romsterhttps://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=icecat ugh look at all the CVEs02:35
Romsterfreetype26.patch ah02:36
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prologicAlso kori have a read of: http://www.ru.j-npcs.org/usoft/WWW/LJ/Articles/unixtenets.html04:07
prologicActually; all of you should :)04:07
prologicAfterall; CRUX is the most UNIX compliant Linux-based OS (really) :)04:08
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dlcusaprologic, kori, I think esr explained it nicely: http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/html/ch01s06.html but either LP hasn't read it or doesn't suibscribe to it.04:28
prologicprobably both04:30
prologicit's the same 'ol problem though04:30
prologicyoungsters never learn until they become older04:30
prologicthen realize how stupid they were when they were younger04:30
prologicbeen there don ethere04:30
prologicand still do it!04:30
dlcusaDuring which time their mistakes find them out and learning happens.04:31
prologicindeed04:31
prologicthe thing (as I said) that troubles me the msot04:31
prologicis that the major distros are taking and eating this up like dog's breakfast04:31
prologicI do not understand why wise experiecned folk that should know better are allowing this to happen04:31
dlcusaI smell back-room shenanigans, myself.04:32
prologicunless the major distros are all full of youngsters (now) maintaining them04:32
prologicwhich would make a lot of sense04:32
prologicyeah04:32
prologicwho knows really04:32
prologichumans ar every complex things04:32
prologicand we don't do as our elders say04:32
prologicor learn form the past04:32
prologicwe often fail to sit on the shoulders of giants04:32
prologicwe just go "fuck that; too hard"04:32
prologicand do it all over again04:32
prologicwhat a waste!04:32
dlcusaLike every generation believing it invented sex--very hard to avoid.04:33
prologichah04:33
prologicyeah04:33
prologicI'm going to fight hard to help keep CRUX as UNIX-ish as possible04:34
prologicI believe CRUX and Gentoo are likely the only "sensible" Linux-based OSes out there atm04:34
kori[✔] Same04:34
koriCRUX is not my ideal distro04:34
prologicand we'll see (in time) what happens to the others when they FAIL04:34
koribut somebody needs to do it04:34
prologicthat's actually a UNIX tenet04:34
prologicWorse is better.04:34
prologicthat's CRUX for me04:35
dlcusaIn their (our) defense, the hormones make us stupid until they start abating in our mid-twenties or so.04:35
prologicheh04:36
prologiccan't keep blaming ignorange on hormones :P04:36
prologicbut I guess they (we) can try04:36
prologic:P04:36
koriI hate worse is better04:37
koribut CRUX is probably the only representative of UNIX in the linux ecosystem04:38
koriCRUX needs to stay alive04:38
dlcusaLP is causing CRUX to gain mindshare.  I'm here because I'm a systemd refugee.  I wish Debian hadn't been so good so I could have found CRUX sooner.04:39
prologichate is such a strong work04:42
dlcusaG'night, all.04:43
koriprologic: it is04:43
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prologickori, I strongly believe you have either not read the UNIX Philosophy or do not understand it (based on your responses)04:43
koriprologic: I do understand it04:43
prologicDo either one of those please at some point :)04:43
koriit has its flaws04:43
koriit works for now04:43
korifor what04:43
koriI'm doing right now04:43
prologicdlcusa: welcome then :)04:43
prologicand enjoy!04:43
prologickori: okay :)04:44
prologicg'night :)04:44
prologicto you :P04:44
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jaegerregarding systemd stuff, I think many of the key people really believe it's the way to go. regardless of how that differs from your/my opinion, they do truly believe it05:01
prologicwhich is ofc nuts :)05:01
prologicas far as I'm concerned systemd in any LInux distro violates many of the UNIX tenets - but ofc we (as individuals) are free to choose/decide for ourselves what to use where and how05:02
prologicso it's a "fine line" so to speak but an abomination nonetheless :)05:03
korilinux violates many of the unix tenets05:03
korijust saying05:03
prologicname one05:03
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prologicand you're meant to be in bed!05:03
korioKAY05:03
jaegerlinux and unix, like anything, will evolve05:04
koriprologic: sockets05:04
korifor one05:04
korihonestly, to me05:04
koriif it's not plan 9 levels of unix05:04
korimight as well not be named unix at all05:04
prologicsocket?05:05
prologicI said name one tenet it violates :P05:05
prologicand jaeger is right05:05
prologicLInux/UNIX will evolve05:05
prologicLinux itself is considered the 2nd system05:05
prologicso there *will* be a 3rd soon probably05:05
koriI don't think anything *nix is the way to go05:05
prologicthat will make Linux obsolete05:05
koribut that's just me05:05
prologicwhat would you have us do?05:05
kori*nix anything IS the present, though05:06
koriand it's a relatively fine present05:06
prologicwrite a whole new kernel and whole new way of thinking and programming? :)05:06
prologiccome on Kori05:06
prologicbe realistic!05:06
prologic:)05:06
koriprologic: oh that's my goal05:06
koriI have time05:06
prologicoh dear05:06
prologicgood luck to you05:06
prologicreally I mean it05:06
koriI obviously won't do it alone05:07
koriit's just a matter of drumming up enough people05:07
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prologicLinux has had billions of years worth of man effort put behgind it05:07
prologicyou won't be able to drum up enough people any time soon05:07
prologicunless your ideas are very very unique and novel05:07
prologicin terms of a Kernel/OS05:08
prologicso like I said; good luck :)05:08
prologicLinux is here to stay for a *very* long time yet05:08
korimy ideas ARE very unique and novel05:08
koridrumming enough people includes getting myself to work too05:08
prologicthen like a good little Linux Torvald back in the '90s -- build a prototype as early as possible!05:09
prologicoh wait; that's like UNIX Tenet #205:09
prologiclol05:09
prologicyou see what I mean Kori?05:09
prologicanyway good luck :)05:09
tilmanhis name is linus btw05:09
prologicyes :)05:09
tilmantorvalds too05:09
prologicthat was deliberate :)05:10
tilmanfuck05:10
tilmani fell to your stupid troll05:10
prologicI missed the s though :)05:10
tilmantrololol05:10
prologiclol05:10
prologicit's okay tilman :)05:10
tilmani didnt have coffee yet05:10
prologicbetter get some into ya then quick!05:10
prologicbut yeah kori ideas are worthless if not shared (also a UNIX Tenet!)05:11
koridon't worry :)05:11
prologicif you don't build *that* prototype quickly; your ideas will be lost into oblivion05:11
koriand I'm not anti-UNIX05:11
koriI just think it's the past and the present but not the futur05:11
korie05:11
prologicUNIX is the past, present and future haha05:13
prologicthat's the thing about a philosophy; it doesn't really die :)05:13
prologicin fact if you developer software this way; you actually prepare yourself for the future and whatever it may throw at you (but not making silly arrogance assumptions)05:13
prologicbut hey; if you *know* and *understand* the UNIX Philosophy you'd know this :P05:14
koriI don't like your tone of voice MISTER05:14
prologicit's okay :)05:16
prologicI"m just trolling05:16
prologicbut seriously; you can't just dismiss a whole philosophy as being "oudated" because you believe it so :)05:16
koriit's less a problem of being outdated but rather a problem of being badly executed05:18
prologicwell; that's humans for you :)05:18
prologicdespite our "best intentions" we still don't listen to reason, wisdom or those before us (*cough* LP *cough*)05:19
prologicalso; Welcome to I.T :)05:19
prologicNB: UNIX Philosophy *is* actually in fact a kind of religion. Note that no-one else is really entering into this debate besides us two fools? :)05:20
tilmanpointless05:21
prologic:)05:21
tilmanstarting a new OS because sockets aren't really files? mmh. :]05:22
korimore like starting a new OS because I'm a control freak and I enjoy tinkering05:22
prologicthat doesn't really have anything to do with UNIX per se anyway05:22
prologicso kind of a moot point05:22
prologickori, then build one so we can see! osdev.org :)05:23
koriand no operating system implements all the features I want in an OS05:23
prologicat *least* build a toy kernel to show me you're serious :P05:23
prologice.g: https://github.com/prologic/hello-kernel05:23
prologic:)05:23
jaegertechnically he CAN dismiss the philosphy as being outdated if he wants to because that's an opinion :)05:23
koriprologic: I'm not a programmer yet05:23
prologicjaeger, indeed :)05:24
prologickori, then you'd better learn quick :)05:24
korithe amount of smiley faces is making me uncomfortable05:24
jaegerheh05:24
prologiclol05:24
prologic:) :) :005:24
jaegerhow about sad faces, then? :(05:24
prologichaha05:24
tilmanor weird ones o_O05:24
prologic:( systemd :(05:24
koriI'm going to play dota05:24
korisee y'all tomorrow05:24
prologicanyway good debate05:25
jaeger__\o/____/|----05:25
prologic:)05:25
prologicg'night05:25
tilmanbye05:25
jaegeryay, shark!05:25
jaegernight05:25
prologicnot me him :P05:25
prologicI'm at work lol05:25
jaegerbeen playing diablo 3, myself05:25
tilmanguys guys05:25
prologicchess here05:25
prologicas usual05:25
prologictilman, wut?!05:25
prologic:P05:25
tilmanthere's this spiritual successor to syndicate05:25
tilmanreleased saturday05:25
tilmansatellite reign05:25
prologiceh?05:25
prologic:)05:26
tilmantime to relive your youths! ;)05:26
jaegerhrmm, funky. I'll check it out05:26
prologicmy youth was misspent in a crappy country05:26
prologicno TV05:26
tilmanaustralia?05:26
prologichaha05:27
prologicno05:27
prologicbut nevermind :)05:27
tilmanjaeger: i can give you a link if you want to try before buy or something05:27
jaegerI'll look up some info about it first but I'll keep it in mind, thanks :)05:28
prologicjaeger, Romster I updated the Docker crux image today and submitted a PR05:29
prologicSo thanks jaeger  for the updatede ISO :)05:29
jaegernp05:33
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Romsterprologic, jaeger thank you08:22
Romsterwait for the PR to go though then i can update my docker image08:22
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frinnstoh lordy, what a backlog08:30
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prologicsorry :)08:44
Romsterusually it's me creating the backlog09:07
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frinnsthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaaIDelgF7E12:54
frinnst5-year old me would have been sooooo into that12:55
jaegerheh, looks like fun even now12:57
prologicIs there some delay for git/ports/contrib ? I just pushed a new port up and rsync still isn't seeing it?13:13
jaegersame problem as the gitweb permissions issue, I think13:14
prologichmm13:14
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dlcusaKori, at 4:43, you said, "[UNIX] has its flaws"--were you referring to this? http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/ch01s04.html or the kernel proper (any kernel, really)?14:49
dlcusaKori, I think you were refering to the UNIX Philosophy after more rereading.  Am I right?14:58
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frinnstnice term font: http://sourcefoundry.org/hack/15:41
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joacimit's a little hard for me to break away from Monaco16:03
joacimeverything else looks a bit strange to me16:03
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frinnstsame for me with terminus16:47
frinnstnothing else looks proper in a terminal window with a black background16:47
onoderajoacim: same with the font I use16:55
onodera(gohufont)16:55
onoderaI don't think I'll ever be able to switch16:56
jawbo_i fell in love with dina a while ago, haven't been able to switch away17:14
jawbobut i really like hack, jaeger, thanks for the share17:15
jawboerrr, frinnst i mean17:15
jawbols17:16
jawbooops17:16
onoderajawbo: lol I also do that often17:40
koriDaViruz: the latter18:01
koriwhoops18:01
koridlcusa: the latter18:01
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timcowchip#18:14
rmullI use proggy for my font18:16
timcowchipproggy?18:30
timcowchipah proggy, http://www.proggyfonts.net/download/18:31
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timcowchipI'm using polari for my irc client18:35
timcowchipjust trying it out18:36
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dlcusaKori, do you have any issues with esr's thoughts in http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/futurechapter.html that might not address the architecture you're formulating?18:46
dlcusaI gather Plan 9 is inadequate or not sufficiently extensible, either, from what you were writing.  I'm genuinely curious.18:48
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koridlcusa: plan 9's problem is exactly the fact it's sufficiently extensible18:54
korialso, if you don't mind, we can have this discussion at #6c3718:55
korijust so #crux isn't flooded with this18:55
kori:)18:55
koriI'm kinda busy right now, also18:55
korianyways19:00
korithe problem with such extensibility and descentralization and such is that it's very easy to reinvent the wheel many times over19:00
koriit's fairly easy to see multiple versions of scripts that do the same thing19:01
koriand that differ in one aspect or the other in the implementation19:01
koria lot of time was wasted19:01
korireinventing wheels19:01
koriyou can argue variation is good, but that's not the point19:04
korivariation IS good19:04
korithe problem arises when it's not actual variation, but fake variation19:04
koriit's different... but it's the same19:04
korihours upon hours wasted solving a problem and then solving it again the same way19:08
koriof course, this is not an unix-only problem19:11
koribut the *nix philosophy and such facilitates that19:11
dlcusakori, okay, I'll head over there to #6c37 in a while (is anyone here NOT busy?).  I think the subject is important to all UNIX users even if they only use what others provide.19:13
koridlcusa: aye that's why I said all that here19:14
korias opposed to there19:14
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dlcusaWhere do I find this revolution's manifesto? (It cannot be you simply want to be revolting, certainly ;-) )  What does it have to do with manifestations of winter ("cold war" is too obvious, n'est pas?)?21:03
dlcusaDang, wrong channel.  Pardonez moi.21:05
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timcowchip'widgadidga' used in a sentence: "you didn't bring your truck widgadidga?"21:13
jaeger:P21:16
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prologicRomster, I believe the CRUX Docker Image got updated and the PR mere last night21:44
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rmullFYI, nvidia and linux 4.2 do not play well together, I am hitting this issue when trying to build nvidia: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/849487/geforce-drivers/linux-v4-2-uses-gpl-only-symbol-flush_workqueue-/23:00
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