IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2015-10-08

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tired890hey gents07:11
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tired890who here used both qemu and esxi? does esxi offer any advantages over plain qemu under crux (with KVM enabled). all those "bare metal" threads I find seem to imply esxi gets the best performance out of VMs, but I reckon with KVM and device passthru it doesn't get more "close to metal" than this, does it ?07:13
tired890I was thinking of implementing a crux box with 3 VMs (Qemu/KVM) for work.. given my experience with it so far (quite stable)07:14
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Romsterso if i got a GIGABYTE Radeon R9 380 G1 GAMING, 4GB, graphics crd i could get 3D acceleration with just mesa 11.0.x and kernel 4.2.x ?07:19
Romsteri'm tempted to test but i keep finding the cards i can get are too new for the drivers.07:20
tired890Romster, you have that new amdgpu driver in mind ?07:20
Romsteryes if it'll work on a R9 38007:21
Romsterneeds to be able to run steam stuff07:21
tired890if I were spurring that kind of cash I'd go for a fury.. newer tech and has all that fancy new api that the new driver is implementing07:21
tired890but I reckon its too new Romster07:23
Romsterfury is too new for this store.07:23
Romstermaybe i'll hold off longer and see what happens07:24
tired890probably wiser07:24
Romsterand go for a fury when they are cheaper and better supported07:24
Romsterit seems i'm always waiting for tech to catch up07:24
Romsterwhat do i nee to look out for to do qemu vga passthough as some bords can't do it... like mine.07:25
Romsterneed*07:25
Romsterunless amd soon come out with a better cpu than a shitty FM2 socket one i'll go with a I707:27
tired890Romster, some feedback from current users: https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/3h4req/using_amdgpu_right_now/07:27
Romsterand use the on board for my second monitor07:27
tired890kinda promising07:27
RomsterFiji chip on the Fury, later.07:28
tired890Romster, this might come as a surprise but if you want to do qemu/kvm/passthru get an 8350 + gigabyte board (something like 990fxa ud5 or ud3)07:28
tired890outdated but works superbly for that task07:28
Romsteri'm ona  gigabyte board now07:29
tired890check online you'll see a lot of rage with people realizing their shiny intels have virtualization disabled or such07:29
tired890gigabytes coz they have working IOMMU support07:29
tired890AMD-Vi or Intel-virtualization by itself isnt enough for passthru07:30
RomsterGA-MA790X-UD4P07:31
Romsterfpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt pdpe1gb rdtscp lm 3dnowext 3dnow constant_tsc rep_good nopl nonstop_tsc extd_apicid pni monitor cx16 popcnt lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy abm sse4a misalignsse 3dnowprefetch osvw ibs skinit wdt hw_pstate npt lbrv svm_lock nrip_save vmmcall07:31
tired890svm is the word we're looking for07:32
tired890what cpu ?07:32
Romsteryes i have svm07:32
Romsterphenom 2 965 black edition 3.4GHz quad core socket am2+ iirc07:33
Romsterhrmm i might be able to do this then.07:33
Romstercurrently got a gtx750 Ti black edition 2GB GDDR507:34
tired890heh that cpu has almost the same single core performance as an 835007:34
Romsteronly got one of those and some older cards i could put in for a secondary.07:34
tired890dmesg | grep IOMMU07:34
Romsternothing... hmm07:35
tired890reboot and check your bios07:35
tired890usually disabled by default07:35
Romsteris there a BIOS option for it... i'm sure i enabled virtulsiation for docker... bvox07:35
Romstervbox*07:35
tired890no IOMMU and virtualization are not the same thing07:35
tired890IOMMU is whats needed for device passthru07:35
Romsterah07:36
tired890also, you might find it in the most odd place07:36
tired890like power management or something07:36
tired890so go through all menus07:36
tired890before that I'd check if I have the latest bios07:36
Romsteris this like a newer DMA standard?07:36
tired890http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3038#bios07:36
Romsteri flashed this awhile ago to support this CPU.07:37
Romsteri probably have F10C but i'll check that.07:37
Romsterhmm nvidia though does that work on kernel 4.2.x07:38
Romsterdoes even the nvidia binary blob support this.07:38
Romsterthis is why i was thinking of a AMD GPU07:38
tired890gpu doesn't matter, if you have iommu we passthru the whole PCIe slot to the guest OS, it would appear to guest as if it was a device plugged directly into system07:39
tired890nasty nvidia tho they have a trick to check for it and disable driver installation on guest OSes, but there is a way around that07:39
tired890for now just check if you have it07:39
Romstermain card is pcie x16 and second card is pcie x8 socket. but it's version 2 not version 3.07:39
Romsteri'm debating if i wanna save up and go with a workstation xeon board. not sure how they would go for gaming07:40
Romsteras i do compile tons so i'd use the cpu for that07:40
tired890I can't recommend intel for moral reasons like I mentioned before.. but anyways.. if you will do passthru you'd get at least 95% native performance07:41
Romsteri need to close stuff if i'm gonna go reboot.07:41
tired890cool07:42
Romsteryeah i read that 95%07:42
Romsterwell if i had other options like AMD pulling there finger out and giving there promised 12 core processor they never relased... instead of the shitty APUs07:42
Romsterthis phenom was really the last decent CPU they made.07:43
Romsterbut isn't on par with a I707:43
Romsteri keep hearing rumors they gonna do something again but it never seems to happen :/07:44
tired890you mean zen ?07:44
Romsterplaned for 201707:45
tired890last I heard 3Q 201607:45
Romsterit was revealed that K12 was delayed in favour of the Zen design for market entry in the 2016 timeframe07:45
tired890supposedly designed by Jim keller (who left amd - again - a few weeks back)07:45
Romsteryeah07:46
RomsterAMD FX cpus area  joke07:47
Romsterare a*07:47
tired890heh. I've seen benches that show them on par with i7 4xxx, its just games take intel as the standard (writing for SMT etc) and then blame amd for failure07:48
tired890let me show you something07:48
Romsterblah could be waiting until 2020 for something good from AMD07:48
tired890http://www.technologyx.com/featured/amd-vs-intel-our-8-core-cpu-gaming-performance-showdown/07:49
tired890look at that, a 170 part keeping up with a 1k part07:49
tired890now with consoles all powered by amd chips (ie moaar cores, slower speed), PC titles will also naturally become optimized for many cores07:50
tired890and suddenly people who had "slow" FX cpus will see the 4/5 years old part pulling ahead of intels latest "hyperthreaded" quad-cores07:50
tired890on windows it sucks. but linux? its great really07:51
Romsterhmm07:53
tired890remember those fx cpus are a byproduct of the opteron lines, a server part. check the spec sheets you'll see the exact same extensions supported by both, thats why you have acceleration for stuff normal users would never use.. and ... IOMMU! from the lowest end (fx 4100) to highest, all have it07:53
Romsteri never liekd the HT in intel it's fake... why not just have better real cores07:53
tired890hence my recommendation, if you are in the market and want to get huge value, the 8350/8370 is still viable today07:53
Romsterhmm i'd stick with this 965 phenom II07:54
Romsteruntil zen is out07:55
tired890good call07:55
Romsteryet another wait07:55
Romsterheres another annoying thing i wanna repalce my 120GB ssd with at lest a 240GB one.... i'd really prefer a M.2 drive but this mobo doens't have that socket...07:56
Romsteri could get a PCIe card to M.2 adapter though07:57
Romsterthen i was thinking why eff around with that and just get a new mobo and SSD at the same time...07:57
Romsternow i have to wait years -_-07:58
tired890but that brings u to the new cpu.. :P07:58
Romsteryeah08:02
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Romstergoing for a ride n my bike, i need the exercise08:14
tired890take care08:16
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jaegertired890: I use both, though qemu less frequently. These days all the major virtualization products (with the possible exception of oVirt) are pretty well on par with each other from a performance standpoint. When properly configured12:29
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tired890jaeger, I see.12:54
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tired890jaeger, did you configure your qemu setup to run under an unprivileged user? or do you run it as root ?13:07
frinnstcheck the privs of /dev/kvm13:07
frinnstyou can set up a udev rule to relax it13:08
tired890frinnst, I'm already in kvm group13:09
tired890but it wont work with pci passthru13:09
frinnstah13:09
frinnsti forgot what you were trying to do13:10
tired890frinnst, qemu complains about failing to initialize my passthru devices, as such:13:11
tired890qemu-system-x86_64: -device vfio-pci,host=01:00.0,addr=07.0,multifunction=on,x-vga=on: Device 'vfio-pci' could not be initialized13:11
tired890now I have /dev/vfio/xx, I guess these represent my passed thru devices..13:12
tired890currently owned by root, group root as well13:12
tired890after changing group of all these devices from root to kvm, I get different kind of errors: cannot allocate memory13:16
jaegertired890: for the passthrough VM I ran it with sudo. It's probably possible to set the right perms on devs to make that unnecessary but I didn't research it much13:17
tired890jaeger, I see.13:18
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tired890I need to change the ulimit13:31
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tired890jaeger, I need to set ulimit -l <amount of ram required by VM>13:53
tired890however ulimit affects only the current shell13:53
tired890when I try to do ulimit -S -l I get error that the amount specified exceeds the hard limit13:54
tired890so I sudo that but ulimit is not found (since its built into shell)13:54
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jaegertry to set it via /sys or with sysctl, if that's an option13:55
tired890when I login as root and do any changes, these changes affect that particular shell instance..13:55
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tired890where via /sys ? sysctl doesnt seem to have it (or is using different naming)14:02
jaegerNo idea :)14:03
jaegerIt's just that usually options like that seem to have a /sys equivalent14:03
tired890I adjusted all perm's on all related devices, I only need to allow the user to lock ram as required by the qemu/kvm14:03
tired890ahh14:03
tired890thanks for tips jaeger14:23
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jaegernp, hope it's helpful14:24
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jaegerok, figured out something I really DO like about pulseaudio - the ability to switch the output device without restarting the app that's playing sound16:04
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sonusI know there won't be a switch to systemd, and I am glad, but is the plan to stick to the rc-style init and service manager, or would there ever be a switch to runit or openrc?19:28
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onoderajaeger: have you tried the openbsd soundserver sndio?21:01
onoderait's much lighter and I think it can also do this21:01
jaegerFirst I've heard of it, will give it a look21:02
onoderahttps://github.com/6c37/crux-ports/tree/master/sndio I made a port if you are insterested in installing it.21:03
jaegerok21:03
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rmullonodera: Huh, that's interesting to me as well, I might play with it21:48
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onoderaRomster: Can you please update contrib/libass to 0.13.0, just changing the $version is enough.22:08
sonusFirefox is really angry that I don't have gstreamer and gstreamer-plugins-base installed.22:27
Worksterso install them?22:32
sonusI am, but I wonder why they are not considered dependencies22:36
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Guest79623read the Pkgfile?23:05
onoderasonus: they are though23:05
onoderafireffox depends on gst-plugins-base which in turn depends on gstreamer23:06
sonuswhat i mean is prt-get didn't install them as dependencies23:06
sonusit's fine, i installed them manually, but just wondered why prt-get didn't do it23:06
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onoderasonus: hm that's weird, prt-get depends lists it23:07
onoderahm I'm getting this error suddenly with mpv: libEGL warning: DRI2: failed to authenticate23:08
onoderacan anyone give me some pointers which package may cause this, nvidia?23:08
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onoderawell recompiling mpv, nvidia and rebooting didn't help...23:13
onoderaI remember someone talking about an "egl-select" script they were making in this channel a while ago, did something big change or something?23:16
onoderadeus_ex: hi are you here?23:19
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