IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2015-10-10

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SparkySquirrelfrinnst: did you look at my ports for Wayland support?02:18
SparkySquirreljaeger: you either?02:18
SparkySquirrelall i need to do now is flip GTK+3 to enable Wayland support and Qt 5 as well02:19
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jaegerSparkySquirrel: I've no particular interest in wayland right now, myself04:02
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SparkySquirreljaeger: but can we work on Wayland support? It's the next windowing system in all of Linux04:45
SparkySquirrelI need Wayland because it can also be more efficient compositing than Xorg, using custom 2D graphics hardware to accelerate front buffer rendering and all that jazz04:46
SparkySquirreljust take Wayland on the Raspberry Pi for example04:46
Wildefyr1, it's still not finished, 2, driver support is meh04:46
SparkySquirrel1GB of RAM and a 900MHz CPU? Dang!04:47
Wildefyrmeh you can achieve the same results with x with lightweight wm's04:48
Wildefyrwmutils is probably the best at this though04:48
jaegerIt's going to be quite some time before wayland replaces x, if it even does. Still very much unfinished04:50
jaegerwith that said, you are of course welcome to use it all you want :)04:50
Wildefyrlets say I have two packages called mpd, one is built by a pkgfile in a offical repo and the other in a custom added one, how can I get prt-get to use the pkgfile in the custom repo consistently over the offical one?05:21
koriWildefyr: edit the prt-get config and put the custom repo above the official one05:27
jaegerWildefyr: list the repo first in prt-get.conf05:27
Wildefyrah okay05:27
Wildefyralways something simple :)05:28
jaeger:)05:28
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WildefyrI know this is kind of a dumb question, but how do people set their locales correctly?06:18
tilman_tilman@brimstone [~] > grep LC .zshenv06:58
tilman_export LC_CTYPE=de_DE.utf806:58
tilman_tilman@brimstone [~] >06:58
tilman_(LC_CTYPE is all i care about, so i can see german umlauts in all their glory)06:58
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asieopt/subversion doesn't download right, needs update to 1.9.207:05
newbie__Wildefyr: can put exports in /etc/profile07:14
newbie__# /etc/profile: system-wide defaults for bash(1) login shells07:15
Wildefyrwhere should I be calling /etc/profile07:21
Wildefyrcalling it as soon as I log into sh, and then zsh, it sets it in the terminal, but not the parent07:21
newbie__well, where you put it depends on which shell do you want to use or have in /etc/passwd07:24
Wildefyrwell using zsh07:25
Wildefyrand that's what is set in /etc/passwd07:26
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newbie__ok, so then try I would try .zshenv as tilman suggested, other options is specified in the zsh manual.07:28
newbie__or here http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Guide/zshguide.html07:29
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tilmanWildefyr: "not in the arent"07:41
tilmanparent*07:41
tilmanWildefyr: of course it doesn't07:41
tilmanenvironment is a process thing -- how would you manipulate your *parent* 's environment? :p07:42
WildefyrI guess07:42
Wildefyrbut something weird is going on here07:42
tilmanie working as intended07:42
tilmanwhat are you trying to do exactly?07:42
WildefyrI am setting my generated locale in /etc/profile, and regardless of the shell, I get locale issues07:43
Wildefyris there no way to set the locale outside of the shell on crux08:05
Wildefyr?08:05
tilmanyou're mixing stuff up08:09
asiealso, youtube-dl would like an update as soundclound doesn't work on the 03.09 ver08:10
tilmanif it's not working in the shell where you set it, there's no point in trying "outside of the shell"08:10
tilmanfix one thing first08:10
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Wildefyrtilman, https://ptpb.pw/XxoC08:15
tilmanWildefyr: you can make sure that the shell that executes your ~/.xsession or ~/.xinitrc has the LC_foo variables btw08:15
WildefyrI'm not even in X08:15
tilmanok08:16
Wildefyrthis is just on the framebuffer08:16
tilmandid you set LANG?08:16
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Wildefyryeah I set it in /etc/profile08:17
tilmanrun locale08:17
tilmanand verify08:17
WildefyrLANG=en_US.utf-808:17
Wildefyrthe LC_ 's equal the same08:17
tilmanthen why does that program say you dno't have it?08:18
Wildefyrbecause apparently the parent doesn't have it08:18
tilmansince i know nothing about this "session" or "window manager", i'll just give up08:22
Wildefyrthanks for trying anyway08:22
tilmanif i were you, i'd hack either the session or the wm to setenv("LANG") and see if that helps08:23
Wildefyr:/08:23
tilmansee if there's a script that is executed by the session after login maybe08:23
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frinnstWildefyr: you have *generated* the locales, right?10:58
Wildefyrfrinnst, yep11:00
Wildefyrlocale -a shows en_US.utf811:00
frinnstah, zsh11:01
frinnstno clue about that11:02
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Wildefyrfunny, the guys in $zsh said that about crux11:02
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Wildefyrwhat are people's solutions to developing software along side the package management?11:16
Wildefyrplaying around with a git mpc build and a custom Pkgfile, really not amazing though11:16
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tilmanWildefyr: i use /usr/local for that. no package management11:30
Wildefyrit's still nice to be able to use the pkgfile though11:38
Wildefyrand I know there's no left over files if/when I decided to remove it11:38
tilmanare just building random shit from git or are you developing it yourself?11:40
tilmantwo different scenarios imo, and for the 2nd, pkgmk isnt well suited imo11:41
WildefyrI'd say building random stuff of gits11:42
Wildefyrbut that I want to mess around with the source11:42
Wildefyrbut not neccesarily care about commits etc11:42
tilmani'd say install to /usr/local11:44
tilmanbut feel free to experiment; this is just my preferred way =)11:44
darthlukanI use /opt11:44
darthlukanbut most everything that starts in /opt ends up becoming its own package and goes where the rest of my managed packages go11:45
darthlukanso /opt is always in a semi-state-of-flux11:45
Wildefyrinteresting11:47
darthlukanWildefyr: keep in mind, I do that for things that are experimental, that I may compile multiple times before it's "ready for production", then I make a legit Pkgfile so that I can maintain it locally and have it installed to whichever place it _should_ go (like /usr/lib and /usr/bin)11:49
Wildefyryeah I think I will do that when working purely on my own stuff11:50
darthlukanI'm assuming you're operating under a similar premise (with your random git things and personal projects)11:50
Wildefyryeah git forks mostly11:50
frinnstI usually create a port for everything I install12:03
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tilmanspeaking of development packages12:47
tilmanmy build of wireshark randomly exits when i open certain windows12:47
tilmantraps: wireshark[27213] trap int3 ip:7f80eb640aba sp:7ffe716d5550 error:012:47
tilmani'm not sure if i added this shit months ago12:48
tilman:D12:48
tilman(int3 is a software breakpoint on x86)12:48
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newbie__how is it possible to not use systemd? will not some applications depend on it?13:19
newbie__just curious13:19
tired890dont use those applications ?13:19
jmcapplications shouldn't depend on it13:20
jmcif some do, they sign their own fate13:20
Wildefyrnewbie__, by not building applications on top of it13:21
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tilmannewbie__: i think gnome (or just gdm) want libsystem-logind. but i might be misinformed :)13:27
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newbie__yes13:29
newbie__does anyone run latest gnome with crux?13:30
newbie__"GDM 3.8 assumes that an init system will also clean up any processes it started. This is what systemd does, but OpenRC didn’t support that. Which means that GDM under OpenRC would leave lingering processes around, making it impossible to restart/shutdown GDM properly. "13:30
WildefyrI think you'd be hardpressed to find anyone here that does13:31
tilmannewbie__: it expects *what* ?13:31
Wildefyrpeople who run source based distros won't build massive stuff like gnome because 99% of it is just waste13:32
jmcThat statement about GDM sounds like the description of an irresponsible teenager...13:34
jmcmakes a big mess, doesn't clean up13:34
tilmani don't even know what they are after13:34
newbie__well, I am at ease now, knowing that not that many applications depend on systemd13:35
Wildefyrnewbie__, don't be surprised when more do start to depend on it13:36
Wildefyrit is a cancer growing through the linux ecosystem13:36
jmcotoh, the bsd's won't switch to systemd, I guess13:36
jmcso there will always be a unix ecosystem independent of systemd13:36
jmcI am really thinking about ditching linux13:37
newbie__I saw a google summer of code fork though, systembsd. :/13:37
jmcbut I don't have the time to invest in a switch atm13:37
tilmanit's not a fork, but a port13:37
tilmanafaiu13:37
jmcnewbie__: Oo.13:37
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Wildefyrhmm it appears I missed a critical setup when I installed crux13:47
Wildefyri didn't put /dev/pts in /etc/fstab13:47
Wildefyrbut I have no idea what it's mount should be13:47
newbie__devpts/dev/ptsdevptsnoexec,nosuid,gid=tty,mode=06200013:48
Wildefyrnot sucha newbie__ after all!13:49
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tilmanare those options really useful though?13:50
newbie__or maybe mode=0600, depending if you want write access or not for the group tty13:50
newbie__tilman: good question, probably not useful with noexec,nosuid13:56
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Wildefyrbuilding up a repo of software already?14:36
Wildefyrjust crux things.14:36
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tilmanteK__: can you fix git-diff zsh completion so it will complete paths even if they aren't under git version control? i'm often using it stand-alone, but not having tab support sucks ;p16:29
pedjateK__: speaking of git, latest stable is 2.6.1.17:11
nwetime to try out crux 3.2-rc1 =)17:12
pedjaand since git port does not install bash/zsh completion, and there is no git-completion port, I guess you are using the one from zsh?17:13
pedjaspeaking of zsh completions, is there one for openssl?17:15
tilmani guess i am, yes :)17:16
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pedjaI have been using the one from git source (manually installed)17:29
pedjanot that I git much17:29
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john_cephalopodaHey19:11
korihello19:11
john_cephalopodaJust found crux. I have no clue why I haven't found it before :)19:11
john_cephalopodaLooks really nice.19:12
jaegerwelcome, glad you like it. The next version is coming soon, we just announced a release candidate on the mailing list today19:18
john_cephalopodaCool. I've just downloaded the iso, so I'll play around with it a bit in virtualbox.19:20
crash_jaeger: I'm looking forward to 3.2 :)19:23
john_cephalopodaAh, wish I had a backup HDD.19:23
jaegervirtualbox is great for when you don't :)19:23
jaegercrash_: should be pretty soon if no big issues aries19:24
jaegerarise19:24
darthlukanif I'm not mistaken, the only "upgrade procedure" needed is to update the ports tree, right?19:24
koridarthlukan: and recompilation of the system yeah19:24
darthlukanright19:24
jaegerdarthlukan: that method is very much unsupported, you can run into bad linking and ABI breakage, etc.19:24
jaegerit can be a lot of work to fix, sometimes19:24
john_cephalopodaHmm, I got a nice new mobile phone (not smart) with an 8gb memory card. I could use that as a backup hdd :D19:24
crash_jaeger: mesa3d and elilo is the only hickups?19:24
crash_in the rc119:24
jaegercrash_: the only ones we've noticed so far. There might be others that other users see that we missed19:25
darthlukanjaeger: So the recommended way is to hose the system and start over?19:25
john_cephalopodaDoes crux use systemd or some other init?19:25
frinnstdarthlukan: no, use the install iso to upgrade19:25
frinnstjohn_cephalopoda: sysvinit19:25
crash_jaeger: ok but that isn't that bad actually for a rc :)19:25
darthlukanoh, excellent19:25
jaegerdarthlukan: as frinnst says :)19:26
darthlukanthat's not bad at all19:26
jaegerIf you WANT to go the manual route it's technically doable, just be prepared to spend some time on it19:26
darthlukanright19:26
darthlukanwith the reboot -> ISO -> upgrade method, you still have to recompile your custom packages though, since I'm assuming the upgrade procedure just replaces core system components?19:27
john_cephalopodaIs crux rolling-release or version-based? Or something of both?19:27
jaegerIt's version-based with package updates in between versions19:28
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joacimdarthlukan: revdep can detect breakage19:35
darthlukanjoacim: right, cool, thanks :)19:35
darthlukanthis will be my first time upgrading to a new version of CRUX19:35
korisame19:35
joacimso you can just recompile what's needed19:35
joacim=)19:35
frinnst"prt-get -fr update $(revdep)" :-)19:38
crash_did i read the announcment and the todo wrong or does it mean that firefox will have html5 ready from the start? :)19:42
john_cephalopodaIt's shocking, how little of the stuff on my computer is actually saveworthy...19:42
joacimtake backups anyways19:42
joacimin 10 years, you might want to look at all those pictures you saved19:43
john_cephalopodajoacim: I'll format the whole HDD and put crux on it.19:43
joacimi'm sure I miss all those pictures I hoarded 10 years ago19:43
john_cephalopoda:D19:43
john_cephalopodaOh, yeah. And all those important textfiles with important informations in them. I think there is an xkcd for it.19:44
john_cephalopodahttp://xkcd.com/1360/19:45
john_cephalopoda:D19:45
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DaViruzwow, that's pretty close to home :)19:50
joacimsome of my text documents are pretty handy19:51
joacimlike the ones that document jumper settings for old hardware19:51
joacimand differences between various soundblaster models19:51
DaViruzi can't shake the feeling that i will need stuff like that sometime in the future19:52
john_cephalopodaI got an image of two cute dogs chilling on the street somewhere in ecuador.19:52
joacim/Users/joacim/Documents/DOAX\ Gift\ Guide.txt19:53
joacimnever deleting that one19:53
joacimit's a lifesaver when playing dead or alive extreme beach volley ball19:53
john_cephalopodaDaViruz:    Boss: "Okay, we will raise your income to 1 million euros and you get 200 days per year holidays and the rest are easy work - IF you can give us a picture of two cute dogs chilling on a street in ecuador now."19:54
john_cephalopodaThere are two files I regret deleting.19:55
joacimthat'd be easy if my pictures had searchable names. but they dont19:55
tilmanholy shit, i had that exact conversation yesterday19:55
joacimthey'rej ust the plain series of digits filenames picture sites usually use19:55
john_cephalopodaOne file I regret deleting was my perfect xmonad config. After I lost it, I stopped using xmonad. The second one was my conky config. Also lost that one, stopped using conky.19:56
DaViruzi lost my perfect zsh config :/19:56
DaViruznow i just run with a generic one which i hate19:56
frinnstzsh is annoying no matter what config you use19:57
john_cephalopodaWith the right config, every program works like a charm.19:58
frinnstthe autocompletion drives me crazy19:58
joacimi like my zsh config19:59
joacimcould probably get a nice bash config going too, but i just cant be bothered19:59
joacimsame with weechat and irssi19:59
viai remember the first time i was trying to tab complete a tar -xvzf blah command, and could not for the life of me figure out why it wouldn't work19:59
frinnsti have tried to use zsh and fish. both drive me crazy with their "intelligent" autocomplete19:59
john_cephalopodaThe only thing, that annoys me in my bash config is, that it won't suggest program names after "sudo" is typed in.19:59
joacimI've already configured one of them, no need to switch19:59
viaand then i realized it was trying to be too damn smart because the file didn't end in .gz19:59
viaand i hated that shit19:59
joacimfixed with configs20:01
frinnstjohn_cephalopoda: thats a feature. If I cant remember the command I shouldn't be running it as root to begin with :D20:01
viaits a default on many distros20:01
frinnstwell -z is gzip so...20:02
viawhy configure a more complex shell to do what the simpler shell does without configuring20:02
john_cephalopodafrinnst: Well, I have to type "sudo pacman -Syu" or something. So I enter "sudo pacm <tab>" and it breaks my flow, that it doesn't autocomplete.20:02
viayeah, but i don't want it filtering my files down by extensions20:02
joacimi'm a sloppy typer. i like that the shell can complete transmission-remasdte-cli for me20:02
frinnstjohn_cephalopoda: sudo !!20:02
john_cephalopodasudo make me a sandwich20:02
john_cephalopodafrinnst: Why not sudo?20:02
viai'm not hating on tab completion in general, just overly intelligent completion20:03
john_cephalopodaAnd why are there fireworks outside?20:03
frinnstno, "sudo !!" will run the previous command as root20:03
DaViruzfrinnst: i like the autocompletion, the default settings now a days are horrible though20:03
joacimvia: pretty sure that shit must be enabled by the user. it is just included in a lot of premade zsh configs out there20:03
DaViruzbut you (or at least i) had to tweak it a lot to my personal preference20:03
joacima plain one doesnt do fancy autocomplete at all20:03
joacimif i remember correctly20:03
viajoacim: bash has this functionality now20:04
joacimthe only annoying thing to me is that zsh by default uses vi-like keybinds20:04
john_cephalopodafrinnst: Ah. Never heard of that command.20:04
joacimvia: should i switch? does it matter?20:04
DaViruzbut simple searching in the command history is a must. lack of it drives me insane20:04
john_cephalopodavi? The only reason why people use it is, because they have started it once and can't find out how to exit.20:04
DaViruz:D20:05
DaViruzor :q rather20:05
viayou must do what you feel is right of course, but personally i think zsh is way way too smart in many respects20:05
john_cephalopodaYeah, but when you are writing, you have to press <esc> first.20:05
john_cephalopodaAnd you have to press some combination to start writing.20:05
DaViruzsmiley-commands are the best20:05
john_cephalopodac-x c-c20:05
joacimi dont think zsh is that smart. it is just easy to configure to be "smart"20:06
john_cephalopodaUsually I use gedit and nano20:06
DaViruzdarthlukan: with that attitude we'll never see another editor war :/20:06
joacimdarthlukan: always someone that'll butt in =)20:07
darthlukanDaViruz: Wait, we were trying to start another war?20:07
joacimi still remember the noise when i bought my macbook in 200620:07
DaViruzcan there be another reason to mention a text editor?20:07
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darthlukanDaViruz: sharing a cool config or new thing learned?20:07
john_cephalopodaAre there hexchat and i3wm aviable in crux? Too lazy to look it up :P20:07
joacimthey're pretty common now, but back then, everyone had to tell me what they thought about macs and apple20:07
frinnstjoacim: I still resent your use of a mac20:08
joacimthat's why i use one20:09
frinnstbut then again, you're norwegian so I guess it cant be helped20:09
joacimi dont like it20:09
joacimbut i know you hate it20:09
DaViruz:D20:09
joacimi dont know what i'd buy today20:09
joacimor use20:10
DaViruzlaptop-wise i have no idea either. i just hope my thinkpad never breaks (again)20:10
john_cephalopodaBuy a nicer dicer today and get a whole set of weird stuff you never need for free!20:10
joacimfeel like computing grew faster than i could keep up20:10
joacimnow i just want to fiddle with bioses and master boot records20:10
john_cephalopodaIt's hard to learn anything about the inner workings of a PC today.20:11
joacimand laptops where the cpu is in a socket and all ram could be replaced20:11
john_cephalopodaLenovo T-61 :D20:12
joacimIBM T6020:12
joacimmade by lenovo, but the brand matters :320:12
john_cephalopodaBought a used T-61, unfortunately the gpu broke.20:12
john_cephalopodaNow I'm using some Dell Latitude.20:12
joacimgot a w500 here20:12
joacimwant a T20 or similar tho =)20:13
joacimgot a soft spot for Pentium III20:13
john_cephalopodaI like how the batteries today last 7 hours and longer.20:13
joacimmy w500 lasts for 2.5 hours :/20:13
joacimpretty heavy too. not a very portable laptop20:13
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joacimcould buy a 9-cell battery i guess20:14
jaegerMy X220 is very portable but I use it less and less these days20:14
joacimhttp://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetails/40Y6797/460/2D575BF5CD7E44E58547BFB52CC4F8E920:15
joacimI could buy that20:15
joacimor food for a whole month20:15
joacimi could get 5 hours out of my macbook. back then everyone sat around the nearest power outlet20:18
joacimsome people brought power strips so they didn't have to argue about who should be allowed to charge their laptops first20:18
crash_i'm happy with my lenovo G50-80 :)20:19
john_cephalopodaI got a Dell Latitude E5540. Quite nice device.20:23
john_cephalopoda7 hours of battery with normal usage.20:24
john_cephalopodaNearly done cp-ing everything onto a backup device.20:25
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jaegerjohn_cephalopoda: see http://crux.nu/portdb/ - there's a search function too20:35
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john_cephalopodathx20:36
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john_cephalopodaPutting that thing on the flashdrive20:52
john_cephalopodaokay, I hope I'll be back in a bit on crux.20:53
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