IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2015-10-12

onoderaWildefyr: none of the curx package tools are "smart"00:13
onoderathey don't look at the actual version number, they don;t see if it goed up or down00:14
onoderajust if it changes00:14
Wildefyrwell the problem was I managed to get mpc make saying libmpdclient was below version 2.300:14
Wildefyreven though the version installed was 2.10 and the uptodate copy00:15
Wildefyrbut I can't replicate it now00:15
Wildefyrso I'm trying to build mosh, I've installed it's dependencies and installed them all, but when building, ./configure says it can't find openssl00:33
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Wildefyrreinstalled openssl and it picks it up00:48
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nwegood morning05:58
john_cephalopodaenchant (from contrib) can't be installed - The source at seems to be down.06:02
nwejohn_cephalopoda: the site is working for me I can download the file06:03
john_cephalopodaHmm, weird06:04
nweif you want the file06:05
nwedownload it and build the package :)06:05
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john_cephalopodaThanks. Well, it would also work without it, but I wanted to report it anyway.06:05
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nwehey guys would be nice if we fix so start-stop-daemon exists on installation cd.. because you cant start sshd via /etc/rc.d/sshd on the installtion cd... command not found: start-stop-daemon..10:40
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juenwe: you are talking about CRUX 3.2?10:54
nwejue: oh sorry :) yupp :)10:56
nwe1 more thing... why dont we add fakeroot to core?10:58
jueso, s-s-d is on the ISO10:59
juewhat's wrong with opt for fakeroot?10:59
nwejue: when you building ports you are using fakeroot, and for me I seeing it as "core" because if you make your own ports you will need fakeroot..11:02
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jueah, I see, s-s-d is on the ISO as a package, but not part of the initramfs11:11
juenwe: thx, we will fix that11:12
nwenp =)11:14
john_cephalopodaI found a few dead links in the link section of the site.
john_cephalopodaAlso it's kind of weird, that "Logos", "CD covers" and "art" point to the exact same directory.11:30
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john_cephalopodaAhrg, outdated packages...12:31
jaegercrux has a rather small team, things like this will happen. :)12:32
john_cephalopodagtksourceview is too old for gedit.12:34
john_cephalopodaHmm, gtg.12:36
jaegeryou can always email the maintainer of the package to request an update12:36
john_cephalopodaIt's in opt, btw.12:37
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rmullI have a third-party precompiled binary that is complaining about not being able to find after a recent boost update, which now provides I'm not so knowledgable in the shared library department. What would the typical course of action be to resolve this? Must I recompile the original sources? What about having multiple versions of boost? Tips welcome!14:25
rmullI assume a symlink is not good enough14:27
frinnstmight be but probably not14:27
frinnstyou cant rebuild the binary?14:27
rmullI could, but I was wondering if there was another way14:27
rmullBecause sometimes it's not an option14:28
frinnstif not, i'd look at either run an older version of boost or find a way to run both14:28
frinnstyou could try with a symlink, abi might not be broken14:29
rmullWould I know immediately if the abi is broken, or would it not complain until I eventually try to call something that's broken some time in the future while the prgoram is running?14:29
rmullI guess they list a set of "breaking changes" in the boost release notes14:30
rmullfor the 58->59 change there is only one14:31
rmullI'll try the symlinks14:31
Wildefyrso guys, I have fuse loaded as a module, but still mount reports that ntfs is an unknown filesystem14:36
Wildefyrso confused, it even tab completes to it when I do mount -t ntfs14:36
rmullFor fuse, don't you use fusermount instead of mount?14:37
rmullThere is a separate non-FUSE NTFS kernel option, which is why it might be complaining14:38
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Wildefyrhuh, what's it listed under?14:39
rmullThe filesystem section14:39
rmullBut it's not what you want - it's limited to read-only I think14:39
jaegerWildefyr: the type should be "ntfs-3g" if you're using the fuse+ntfs-3g combo14:39
jaeger"ntfs" is the limited kernel version14:40
Wildefyrah okay14:40
Wildefyrdoesn't list ntfs-3g though14:40
Wildefyrah it needs to syslinked14:48
onodera Wildefyr eh fuse doesn't handle ntfs I think14:50
onoderathe kernel has a ntfs option under filestyems somewhere14:51
jaegerthe kernel option is NOT a good option :)14:51
onoderaeh, explain please?14:52
tired890one is a better implementation14:52
tired890still uses a lot of CPU tho14:52
jaegeronodera: the kernel ntfs implementation is rather lacking, feature-wise. ntfs-3g is the better option14:52
Wildefyrhuh onodera, fuse is listed as dependency of ntfs-3g14:52
jaegerWildefyr: yes, ntfs-3g needs fuse. the kernel ntfs doesn't14:53
WildefyrI didn't even know there was a kernel option before today14:53
onoderaI didn't know fuse handled ntfs before today :p14:53
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pedjaso, systemd wants binutils built in specific way.15:02
pedjaif I open a bug, how long would it take frinnst to nuke me (not the bug report, me personally)?15:04
john_cephalopodahi again15:04
pedjawe are talking nanoseconds here15:04
onoderay-you use systemd on crux?15:05
john_cephalopodaLet's use binary packages and systemd on crux!15:06
pedjaonodera: no, I just build it from time to time, to see how big it got :)15:06
viai think the kernel ntfs is considered deprecated... it doesn't have proper write support afaik15:07
pedjajohn_cephalopoda: I use ff binary, can't build it on my ancient machine15:07
john_cephalopodaI use nvidia binary because it's faster than nouveau :)15:08
Wildefyrbut mah freedoms ?15:08
pedjafreedom to choose15:08
john_cephalopodanouveau was really nice when I tested it. Fist it was buggy but then the devs fixed it pretty fast.15:08
Wildefyrsrsly though nouveau has worked great for me except 3d performance, which I don't use anyway15:09
john_cephalopodaI play KSP every once in a while and it is unplayable below 60 fps.15:09
pedjai don't have it because I can't spell it15:09
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pedjanouveue thingie15:09
john_cephalopodanouveau. It's french. And means "new", iirc.15:10
darthlukanWell, this is going to sound silly, I've never had this issue before when sending a message to a mailing list with mutt: But I got the "Helo command rejected: need fully-qualified hostname" error, whereby apparently my username@hostname was sent. Anybody know what settings I need locally so that the crux mailing list doesn't reject my messages?15:11
pedjaand 'prt-get install that-novo-open-source-nvidia-freedom-crap' does not work.imagine my surprise.15:12
john_cephalopodaSearch for "nvidia" on archwiki. :P15:13
onoderaI might try nouveau sometime again, nvidia is pretty much the only nonfree package I've installed15:14
onoderalast time I tried it my mpv lagged15:14
john_cephalopoda"For information about the open-source drivers, see Nouveau."15:14
john_cephalopodaoooh, mpv? Lol, it is in contrib15:14
pedjaI should really learn to setup dkms, this rebuilding after kernel update 'fun' is getting old.15:15
pedjanvidia, vmware, zfs, virtualbox I said, fun.15:16
john_cephalopodaI should write a small curses program, that allows you to switch kernels easily.15:16
john_cephalopodaHmm, why doesn't ptr-get install/depinst/...etc place a lock when starting? It is a bit annoying when the install fails because some other build runs somewhere else.15:18
pedjajohn_cephalopoda: if we had systemd, you could reboot to new kernel really, really, really fast :)15:18
john_cephalopodapedja: Isn't there hotswap support in the new kernels?15:18
pedjaksplice or smth?15:18
Wildefyrit's not fully featured15:19
Wildefyrgood for patches without shutting down but I think eventually you still have to reboot15:20
pedjajohn_cephalopoda: what Wildefyr said15:20
frinnstpedja: get amd/ati15:21
john_cephalopodaActually crux boots faster for me than arch.15:21
pedjafrinnst: no, thanks :)15:21
john_cephalopodaEven more, when I don't start dhcpcd at boot.15:21
pedjaintel/nvidia for life!15:21
pedjaI am an old and conservative man15:22
viaintel/amd for life, nvidia is theo nly company that refuses to provide open specs or open drivers15:22
john_cephalopodaThe old intel gpus are horrible.15:22
john_cephalopodaThe new haswell mobile ones are so good, that I don't have to use the nvidia accelerator.15:22
pedjavia: as long as they provide drivers that work, I don't care15:23
frinnstI use the ivy bridge onboard at work, its horrible15:23
frinnstvideo playback tears15:24
WildefyrI hear their newer chips are better now15:24
Wildefyrcan't iris pro or whatever15:24
pedjafrinnst: why is your video playback crying?were you watching Titanic?15:24
john_cephalopodaudisks should be in contrib. Without it, auto-mounting devices in spacefm (also in contrib) doesn't work.15:25
pedjafrinnst: hae you tried using compton?it fixed tearing for me.15:26
pedjaxfce,nvidia binary, though15:26
pedjajohn_cephalopoda: this is awesome :)15:27
onoderadoes anyone have the egl-select script deus_ex talked about a while ago?15:27
pedjaonodera: it requires nvidia packaged in certain way15:28
pedja(egl libs in /usr/lib/.nvidia)15:29
pedjamy script-fu is weak15:29
pedjabut it works (for certain values of 'works')15:30
pedjait is an experiment (mad scientist style)15:31
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pedjaonodera: i can send it to you, along with nvidia port that I use, if you want to play with it.sane rewrite welcome :)15:33
joacimfrinnst: the anti tearing options don't work for that?15:33
joacimi think i fixed that on my laptop, but i dont have an ivy bridge chip15:34
darthlukanoh sheesh! Figured out why my email was rejected... Somebody (me) forgot to set the correct SMTP settings... Sorry for bugging you guys with what's obviously PEBKAC15:41
john_cephalopodaThere should be repos focussed on specific tasks, like drawing/photo editing, music or games15:49
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onodera pedja please do :)15:53
onoderajohn_cephalopoda: I (kinda) like how the bsd's and gentoo do it15:54
onoderathey have this giant repo with directories like www, x11, media, gfx, etc etc15:54
john_cephalopodaThe thing is, that it is a bit annoying when I want to install one thing and I have to add several port directories for that15:55
john_cephalopodaAnd those repos got names that don't tell much15:55
Wildefyrbest way to package a python program that doesn't have a
Wildefyrit just has the program in one file along with the man page16:07
john_cephalopodaYou know what would be a real addition to the package system? Optional dependencies. Maybe using something like "#Optdepends:  udisks for user-mounting" - it would be completely backwards-compatible. The package manager could be configured then (but doesn't have to - that's the great thing!) to ask the user, if and which optional deps are wanted.16:12
onoderaWildefyr: install -Dm775 executable $PKG/usr/bin/executable16:14
onoderain the pkgfile16:14
onoderajohn_cephalopoda: there are optional dependencies, some packages ahve them under "Nice to have:"16:15
onoderaI don't think the added complexity would be nice, it's very easyt to install the packages yourself and recompile the program16:15
john_cephalopodaonodera: It might be nice to have them in a unified format, so people can write package manager support for that.16:16
Wildefyras long as you can get the info by reading the pkgfile I think it's fine16:16
onoderayeah I agree that deps/optional deps in defined as variables would be better than the current comments16:17
john_cephalopodaIt could be a few lines like "#Optdepends:  udisks for user-mounting", or a slightly other format - important is, that the user can see, what the optional dependency will change when installed.16:17
john_cephalopodaI'm pretty sure that mpv can do much more, when all the deps are installed16:17
john_cephalopodaLike youtube-dl16:18
john_cephalopodaonodera: It doesn't matter if they are encoded in the comments or not, the important thing is, that there is a unified format for it.16:19
onoderathere is though16:20
onodera# Nice to have:16:21
Wildefyrtbh prt-get could be made to check a line like '# Optional : youtube-dl' and then ask if doing prt-get depinst for the user to hit y at the start of the build process for each optional package they want16:21
john_cephalopodaThe "# Nice to have" one doesn't offer the possibility to add a description though.16:21
Wildefyrwho needs a description, go check their pkgfile for that16:22
Wildefyrthat's where it is16:22
john_cephalopodaWildefyr: I mean, a description, how the optional package does affect the behaviour of the program that is currently installed.16:23
Wildefyrgo read the programs documentation for that16:23
john_cephalopodaLike youtube-dl compiled into mpv will make it possible to play a lot of sources of online videos directly.16:23
onodera^, lists it 99% of the time16:23
onoderajohn_cephalopoda: that's pretty self explanatory16:24
john_cephalopodaonodera: Yeah, that was just an example.16:24
john_cephalopodaiirc you can compile all kinds of things into gstreamer to add support for anything.16:24
john_cephalopodaAnd I'm sure that firefox also has some optional dependencies that change its behaviour.16:25
Wildefyrso go and read gstreamers documentation!!16:25
Wildefyrthere's no need to list it twice16:25
Wildefyrany crux specific things should be mentioned in the pkgfile however, but that is so rare I don't see it happening16:26
john_cephalopodaWildefyr: I don't really want to read through tons of docs, then look if those things are aviable in the packages somewhere and then install.16:27
Wildefyrif it's listed in the package file as an optional dependency then it's not needed for the core functionality in the first place16:28
Wildefyra quick google search should bring up what's relevant16:28
Wildefyrthere's no need to put the info in the pkgfile16:29
john_cephalopodaAlso when I install program appX, and libY is a dependency, I won't check libY optional dependencies - those might affect how libY works though and that might affect some things in appX.16:29
Wildefyrwell, you should16:30
john_cephalopodaChecking all dependencies by hand would be a lot of work.16:31
john_cephalopodaIt's difficult. If the package manager would stop and ask for every optdep, it would become interactive. And that would be bad for automated builds.16:33
john_cephalopodaSo it must be an option.16:33
john_cephalopodaI think archlinux got some post-install message, that tells you which optional (binary) deps are aviable.16:38
onoderapedja: stuill here?16:39
onoderacan you share the nvidia port/egl thingy please?16:39
pedjaonodera: yup :) but be warned, egl-select is a hack which kinda works, based on gl-select (which works fine, because it was written by people that actually know what are they doing).16:42
pedjawith that said, im me your email adress16:43
john_cephalopodaOh, so many outdated packages in contrib. I'll have to make a giant list and send it to the maintainer mail.16:44
pedjajohn_cephalopoda: along with the patches :) ?16:51
pedjacontrib is best-effort repo16:51
john_cephalopodapedja: Well, all of the changes are just incrementing the version number16:52
pedjajohn_cephalopoda: and .md5sum and .footprint changes16:53
pedjahence the patch16:53
pedjaclone contrib.git, update ports, git-format-patch away!16:57
pedjaor smth16:57
onoderapedja: should I reboot on nvidia update?16:57
onoderapedja: @ line 10 in egl-select there is a space between the var name and directory, you should remove it16:59
john_cephalopodaOkay, I'll look at contributing later.16:59
pedjaonodera: you could 'modprobe -r nvidia' 'modprobe nvidia', but I reboot16:59
onoderaok rebooting, gimme a sec17:00
pedjaonodera: yeah, I know :) I told you it was a hackish script17:00
onoderawish me luck :p17:00
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pedjagood'll need it :)17:01
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onoderaseem to work just fin pedja :)17:03
pedjacheck the symlinks at /usr/lib17:04
onoderafor what should I look?17:04
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pedjaonodera: broken ones, if you used egl-select to switch to nvidia17:05
onoderahm wait17:08
onoderanothats not part of nvidia/egl I think, read that wrong :p17:09
onoderaeverything works fine17:09
pedjagood :)17:10
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pedjaI could be wrong, though, I really need to remove mesa3d and nvidia, and test this properly17:19
pedjasorry about that17:20
pedjalike I said, patches welcome :)17:20
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pedjaonodera: if you want to test it, clone mesa-demos from git and build them.there are egl/es2 gears and info tools you could use to check.17:22
pedjaafk (tobacco break)17:24
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onoderapedja: tbh I barely know anything about nvida/gle/etc., but I'll learn17:29
onoderawhat I do know is that with nvidia's egl my mpv started being usable again :)17:29
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Wildefyrnow, pulseaudio may have ruined me18:39
Wildefyrbut how to get playback of lets say mpd18:39
Wildefyrand teamspeak at the same time?18:40
onoderashould work ootb with asla I think18:43
Wildefyrwell they won't share the same device for some reason18:44
Wildefyrfirefox works fine at the same time18:44
pedjaWildefyr: put this in .asoundrc and try.
Wildefyrthat fixed it pedja !18:50
Wildefyrsuper quiet though18:51
pedjaWildefyr: incomplete paste, sorry.try this
Wildefyrhm using ncmpcpp volume directly affects the volume of the audio device18:52
Wildefyrokay yeah that works fantastically18:53
onoderaalsa is so hard to configure18:58
onoderaonce OSS works with suspend i'll switch back immediately18:58
Wildefyronodera, once you work it all out I might make the switch19:06
Wildefyranything is better than just alsa19:07
onoderaI already have an oss port19:11
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john_cephalopodaHi again19:54
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rmullfrinnst: Btw, don't know if you were interested in the followup or not, but I popped in the symlinks for boost and the binary I had seems to work fine.20:48
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john_cephalopodaHey again btw21:31
john_cephalopodaCan I force a recompile and reinstall with "prt-get depinst"?21:40
john_cephalopoda-fi and -fr options don't seem to change anything21:40
jaegerprt-get update -fr whatever21:41
john_cephalopodaI should make a list for inclusion in the wiki, where common commands are listed and explained.21:44
frinnst-fr is explained in the man-page iirc21:54
john_cephalopodafrinnst: Yeah, but it isn't said, that it only works with update and not with depinst.21:59
john_cephalopodaWho is responsible for the website stuff content btw?22:01
john_cephalopoda(Except for wiki and manual)22:02
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john_cephalopodavlc build fails.22:37
Worksterjohn_cephalopoda, pedja onodera romster/pkg-not tool that you can do pkg-not /usr/lib and it'll list what files are not part of the database.22:39
onoderaWorkster: that's such a cool tool, you should consider adding it to prt-utils22:41
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Worksteronodera> pedja: should I reboot on nvidia update? <- rmmod nvidia ; depmod -a ; startx22:56
pedjaWorkster: wrt nvidia: I do, just to be safe. wrt pkg-not: prtorphan -d $DIR does something similar23:02
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john_cephalopodaIs there some way to let normal users do "poweroff"?23:18
john_cephalopodaBecause "sudo su" > "poweroff" is a bit ugly - brb23:19
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