IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2016-01-16

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j_vi've got a new port for lxc. it has a lot of extra stuff for creating Crux containers, especially unprivileged ones. There's a howto and README in the port source dir that describes howto to go about setting it all up.01:37
j_vmy aim is to create another venue to easily setup a vm for port creating and testing.01:39
dgnhefWhen trying to build opt/alsa-utils I got a footprint mismatch missing "/usr/bin/alsatplg".  The wiki FAQ says make sure you have all dependencies installed, and built the package as root -- I did both of these.  Should I ignore/update the footprint as the wiki says?02:03
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WildefyriHey guys this isn't crux related, but how can I setup a USB ethernet in just using ip?02:18
WildefyriI've tried just doing ip addr, ip link set up, ip route add default via but I can't seem to be able to connect to anything02:19
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frinnstdoes "ip link" display the device?02:40
frinnstthen it should work, yes02:41
WildefyriProbably the fact it gets routed though my phone02:41
WildefyriI dunno02:42
WildefyriWanted me move my chromebook off crux as I was having those illegal hardware instructions02:42
WildefyriTried deb install very nice but trying to get Internet? Fuck you.02:43
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tilmanteK_: in the prt-get completion for zsh, _listupdates() only works for the first port; if you want to update multiple ports, only the first one can be completed. is this (easily) fixable?08:13
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onoderacan someone help me with my font (or encoding, idunno) problem please11:47
onodera~ xfontsel11:47
onoderaWarning: Cannot convert string "-windows-dina-medium-r-normal--10-80-96-96-c-70-microsoft-cp1252,-FreeType-JackeyFont-Medium-R-Normal--12-90-100-100-P-21-ISO10646-1" to type FontStruct11:47
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onoderawrong paste11:48
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onoderacan anyone please post their locale and locale -a output here12:08
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Ghost_r00twhat are my choice regarding lightwight (gtk) PDF reader. (besides Xpdf).14:30
john_cephalopodUsing epdfview.14:33
john_cephalopodNot sure if it is lightweight.14:33
john_cephalopodOr mupdf.14:34
tilmani used to use epdfview before i realized fancy guis are overrated. mupdf ftw ;p14:34
john_cephalopodBut I'm not sure if it's possible to print with mupdf.14:34
onoderaI use pqiv compiled with poppler support14:34
onoderait's really really basic though14:34
tilmani print using lp/lpr14:34
onoderayou can also use your browser14:35
Ghost_r00tthere was something in the jumanji family that used mupdf. it was a wrapper so do speak.????14:44
tilmanyou might be thinking of zathura14:45
tilmani thought it used poppler though, not mupdf. maybe i'm wrong ;)14:46
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geggam i need to move my work vm from slack to crux...15:27
john_cephalopodI bet that emacs got pdf support... :D15:38
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onoderageggam: installed crux yet?15:50
geggamnot yet.. still waking up15:50
geggamill make a vm on my dev box and then move that image to my work laptop15:51
geggamis there a decent howto fulldisk encryption for crux yet ?15:51
onoderaI've never done fulldisk encryption before, but I imagine the lfs/gentoo/arch guides will work as well15:54
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groovy2shoeshey geggam!  how is it we keep winding up in the same channels?16:08
geggamdo a /whois geggam groovy2shoes ... i think you are missing a few16:09
Wildefyrdon't give him ideas!!16:09
groovy2shoesgeggam, you are the most common nick in the channels I attend is all16:10
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geggami know groovy2shoes ... you are only in 316:10
geggamim down to 1316:10
groovy2shoes/whois tells me you're only in 316:10
groovy2shoesI'm actually in 9, though16:11
geggamprivacy rules.. ncie16:11
groovy2shoesI guess it's only telling us the common channels16:11
groovy2shoesanyway, I have a feeling you might like CRUX16:12
geggamwelp... i was gonna stay with slackware for my linux but since they pushed pulseaudio into the system ill be leaving that16:12
groovy2shoesI still plan to run both for the foreseeable future... what is it about pulseaudio?16:12
tired_laptopsay one is using full disk encryption on a server, then power went down on said server and then back up.. the disk would require a password to unlock and hence system won't boot no?16:13
geggamlennart ware... i refuse to run anything that douchebag touches16:13
geggamnot for a server tired_laptop ... i use BSD for that16:13
groovy2shoesI haven't really used pulseaudio, but I try to keep my opinions about things a little more objective :p  not to say I'm perfect at doing so...16:13
tired_laptopI mean if I wanted to do a setup like that.. can I use FDE on a server and have the services available upon power cycle ?16:14
geggamlast time i used it... the sound crashed and hardlocked the system16:14
geggamyou cant tired_laptop16:14
tired_laptopI see16:14
groovy2shoeswell that's no good16:14
geggamFDE requires entering the password / key16:14
geggamconsole services help with that .. if you have drac/ilo16:15
groovy2shoesI'm running Slackware-current, but I haven't updated yet since the pulseaudio push...  I intend to give it a chance like I gave systemd a chance, but we'll see how that goes16:15
onoderaI really didn't like pulse when I used it16:16
onoderaalso my audio works perfect with just alsa, I really don't see the need16:16
tired_laptopme too.. I dont know why they come up with all these stuff when things work just fine man16:16
onoderaI've tried OSS4 as well for a while (OSS was default before my time) and I really really like it, the only thing that keeps me from using it is the fact that it doesn't support hubernate/suspend16:16
groovy2shoesonodera, my audio works perfect with alsa as well16:17
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groovy2shoeslots of "innovation" going on in Linux-land these days... lots of reinventing the wheel, really16:18
tired_laptoptinfoils call it a not so subtle takeover..16:19
tired_laptoptime will tell16:19
groovy2shoesI hear OpenBSD's got a GSoC project to create shims for systemd compat16:19
groovy2shoesI think it's a shame they even need them16:19
groovy2shoespersonally, I'd just as soon avoid any software that has a hard dependency on systemd, but we'll see how long I can hold out16:20
tired_laptopbusybox dropped it not long ago.. at least you won't find it in embedded, for now.16:20
groovy2shoesdropped what?16:20
tired_laptopsysd support16:20
groovy2shoeswell, that's encouraging16:21
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geggamgroovy2shoes, the openbsd devs like gnome.. gnome is having deps top systemd16:22
tired_laptopI'm worried the landscape will not be the same in a decade, now it seems like a bunch of old timers are holding out due to familiarity with sysv-like inits, but in the long run.. oh man16:22
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groovy2shoesI really love CRUX's approach to init... it's actually super fast to boot for me, and so simple to configure16:23
geggamwell... that is why im looking for a distribution i can build and maintain tired_laptop16:23
groovy2shoesgeggam, so I've heard16:23
groovy2shoesabout gnome and OBSD, I mean16:23
tired_laptopwe have to keep passing the torch gents, teach crux to our children and whatnot16:23
geggamfor personal use... in the event i get time i have gathered most of the centos build stuff pre systemd and am working on a systemd free centos16:23
geggamvery very slowly rigth now... buried at work16:24
groovy2shoesI honestly can't believe there isn't already a project to do something like that16:24
geggamthe idea is to create jenkins jobs for every step so it can be reproduced16:24
groovy2shoesI know there's one for Debian (Devuan)16:24
geggamsrc rpms all the way16:24
tired_laptopdevuan kinda stalled16:26
groovy2shoesI think the fact that applications can even have dependencies on an init system in the first place is my biggest grip with systemd, followed by the fact that it's a memory hog (PID 1 should not be using over a hundred MB of memory) and the documentation leaves me very wanting16:27
geggamlack of choice is my issue.. linux was about choice... removing choice is removing the reason i used linux16:27
onoderasame, the nice thing about linux is the fact that you can replace "modules"16:28
geggamif i have to host my own linux distro to maintain that ... then so be it16:28
groovy2shoesyeah, that's the side-effect of my biggest issue, so I just kinda skipped it, but that is a big issue16:28
tired_laptopproblem is the objectives are not defined, its started as an init, but that definition no longer applies, it handles power, mounts,..etc and its expanding16:28
onoderaexample are the wm, the browser, and of coure the init/rc16:28
onoderasystemd replaces a big amount of these modules, I mean it even has ntetworking, a qr code generator (for real) and a su equivalent16:29
groovy2shoesI have an old Pentium II with 192 MB of RAM that I used to run Linux on (I run OpenBSD on it now), but when the distro I ran on it (Arch) switched to systemd, it was using almost all the RAM at boot... I couldn't do anything with it16:29
Wildefyrah another arch refugee16:30
groovy2shoeslol thanks16:30
tired_laptopif you argue this does not confirm to unix philosophy, they will tell you systemd is not a single exec but an umbrella and therefore its more unix confirming than the other things, like the kernel !16:30
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groovy2shoesI went Red Hat -> Fedora -> Ubuntu -> KateOS (now defunct) -> Slackware -> Arch -> Frugalware -> Mac OS X -> Slackware -> and finally CRUX (though I still run Slackware, too)16:31
tired_laptopquite a transition16:31
tired_laptopWindows > debian > crux :)16:32
onoderawindows -> manjaro -> arch -> gentoo -> crux16:32
WildefyrWindows -> Arch -> Crux/Debian16:32
onoderagradually building up the experience required, though I will proibably stay with crux16:33
geggamwindows -> mandrake -> FreeBSD -> OpenBSD -> ( #allthethings )16:33
groovy2shoesI was looking at both Gentoo and CRUX, but I tried CRUX first and liked it enough that I never bothered to try Gentoo, which I suspect I'd probably also like tbh16:33
geggami remember when gentoo came out... it was great... but took 3-4 days to install :)16:34
groovy2shoesI do keep a Windows partition around, but it's just there so I can test my software on Windows16:34
geggami dont.. i use mac for that .. if it doesnt run i dont use it :)16:34
groovy2shoesI'll be getting a Mac Mini this weekend for testing there, too16:35
tired_laptopgroovy2shoes, qemu/gpu-passthrough is absolutely fantastic, when my friends pop up and ask for a red alert game, I just fire it up and play at full quality16:35
geggamnew mac minis are disposable.. ram soldered in16:35
geggamget the biggest you can .... you can only upgrade the disk16:35
groovy2shoessetting up a Jenkins instance that will automatically run a build and tests on a bunch of OS's after every commit16:35
tired_laptopwhen done I don't even do a proper shutdown, I just Ctrl+C from the crux terminal haha16:36
groovy2shoesgeggam, this is actually a used Mac Mini from a friend... a couple years old, with the RAM already upgraded to 16G16:36
geggamthat should work16:36
groovy2shoesgetting it cheap... I don't need it to be a powerhouse, tbh, I just need it to build and test16:36
groovy2shoesI mean, I'm using an old Pentium II with 192MB of RAM for the same purpose ;)16:37
groovy2shoesand a raspberry pi16:37
geggamim getting rid of all my 1u servers and moving to embedded for personal hosting16:37
groovy2shoesI have a bunch of old commodity hardware lying around, and so does my accomplice, so I think we're covered for build servers at the moment16:38
geggami have 2 dell 1850s a dl145 and an sc1435 ... 2 48 port GB switches and an F5... all going away16:38
groovy2shoesmy accomplice has a rather beefy box that we built a couple years ago, we're going to throw ESXi on there and run a few VMs16:39
geggambtw... if anyone is in the bay area and wants any of the above ^ do tell me16:40
groovy2shoesSF bay, I'm assuming16:40
geggamthere is another ? :)16:40
groovy2shoesgreen bay, tampa bay, ... :p16:40
geggamthose names i havent heard of16:41
groovy2shoesnot an nfl fan, then, I gather16:41
geggamyes... im being silly16:41
groovy2shoesI know, so am I :p16:41
geggamaz cards fan .. have been for decades16:41
tired_laptopembedded as in SoCs (eg atom) ?16:42
groovy2shoestamba bay bucs for me16:42
groovy2shoesy'all have had a much better season than us16:42
geggamtired_laptop, these sorts..16:42
groovy2shoestbh I hope the cards do very well in the playoffs16:42
geggami do have beaglebone and arduino stuffs too16:43
geggambut i need more network / disk ports for the home servers16:43
groovy2shoeslarry fitzgerald also has the nicest ass in the nfl16:43
geggamyou just gender confuzzled me16:43
geggamidentify thyself !16:44
groovy2shoesI'm a dude, I'm just comfortable enough with my sexuality to publicly recognize a nice ass when I see one16:44
geggamno worries...16:44
geggammy boss is a tranny... so is the dev that works across the cube wall ...16:44
groovy2shoesthat happens a lot in the bay area, I hear16:44
groovy2shoesnot so much here in the south... lots of violence directed towards LGBT people here :/16:45
geggamat first it was difficult because i didnt know how to do it.. but after twitter stalking and seeing what they bitched about i realized people who are attempting to identify as something else want to be called that16:45
groovy2shoesthough it has been getting better, very slowly16:45
geggamso my boss is a dude i treat like a chic16:45
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groovy2shoesso maggeg runs Slackware, I assume?16:50
groovy2shoesI wish I could get my wife to run Linux lol16:50
geggamnow she is on mac.. she used to run debian...systemd happened .. moved her to slack.. got her a mac so i didnt have to manage it for her16:51
groovy2shoesback in college when we first started dating, I was running Frugalware and she was chatting with her friend on Pidgin, and I guess they were trying to Skype (I did have Skype installed) but she couldn't figure it out and said to her friend "stupid linux"16:51
groovy2shoesI felt almost heartbroken when she said that lol16:51
groovy2shoesobviously I got over it, since 8 years later we're happily married16:52
tired_laptophow did you know she said stupid linux to her friend?16:53
groovy2shoesbecause I was in the room16:53
groovy2shoesshe asked me for help eventually and I saw it on the screen16:53
groovy2shoesI didn't mean to snoop, I swear!  it was just right there in front of me, I couldn't help it!16:55
tired_laptopyou should've covered the screen with one hand or minimized the window!16:56
groovy2shoesBSD has the best man pages16:57
tired_laptopunfortunately you can't blame them though.. a brilliant mechanic who can identify whats wrong with my car by simply listening to the engine, when I speak about linux, flexibility, freedoms blah, they don't care.. they just want something that works16:57
groovy2shoesLinux docs just aren't up to par with BSD docs16:57
groovy2shoestired_laptop, yeah, I know what you mean16:58
geggamits easier to do that in linux now than it is in windows16:58
geggamboth my boys use ubuntu... so i dont have to work on their systems16:58
geggami monitor the network with netflow.. if i see too much porn happening i throttle them to shitty video speeds16:59
groovy2shoesI grew up with dialup, so I'm used to shitty porn speeds16:59
tired_laptopthe other day I was discussing how windows was "not bad", but now keeps getting dumped down.. before you'd see an actual error message, now its like "ops! something went wrong, let me check online for a solution".. its infuriating to a tech but to the average joe its more "friendly". I blame apple hahaha16:59
groovy2shoesblame apple!17:00
geggami need to do some reconfiguring on the network so devices cant get out17:00
geggamsmart tvs are chatty... satellite boxes are nosey17:00
groovy2shoesI used to sit there and lie that I was 18 to get the pr0n, and then have nightmares about the FBI coming and telling my mom I was looking at porn17:00
geggammake them go thru a squid proxy to get out17:01
geggamwhen i grew up we had to get magazines ....17:03
geggamno such thing as internet17:04
groovy2shoesI found my grandpa's stash of playboys in the shed once17:04
geggami probably would have fapped myself to blisters  if i had internet porn17:04
tired_laptopoh man that'd be so awkward if you "used" them in any way17:04
groovy2shoesthat was a little disturbing, but as a horny 16 year old, the disturb didn't stop me!17:04
geggamfamily tradition17:04
geggampass em down !17:05
tired_laptopthis is getting awkward gents17:05
geggamyeah... a bit ?17:05
groovy2shoes"son, these are my playboys.  they were my father's before me, and his father's before him, and now they are yours"17:05
groovy2shoes"make sure you were these gloves when you handle them, though"17:06
groovy2shoeswear, even17:06
tired_laptopand don't put any black lights near em17:06
tired_laptopthats it, tired is out17:06
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onodera /join #ncmpcpp17:23
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tired890Workster, pls update pidgin to 2.10.1219:50
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.2]: spice-protocol: include pyparsing dependecy20:56
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mender27Hello CRUX people, how are things going? :)21:17
tired890hey mender27 :)21:18
mender27I am a current FreeBSD user and I'm pondering running CRUX on my second HDD.21:18
Wildefyrwhat is there to ponder? just do it ,)21:19
mender27Was wondering how is CRUX doing in the current systemd and what-not haze :)21:19
Wildefyrno systemd21:19
tired890no systemd21:19
mender27Oh, God bless CRUX then!21:19
Wildefyrwe use sysvinit and start-stop-daemon21:19
tired890welcome to the klan !21:19
mender27That sounds marvelous :)21:20
tired890it works marvelously too!21:20
mender27Any major apps I could be missing? I'm using the nVidia 340xx drivers and occassionally WINE21:20
john_cephalopodaHi mender2721:21
Wildefyryou miss it? port it yourself21:21
Wildefyrmost common linux software is packaged in the offical repos however21:21
mender27Sounds like the proper man's way, Wildefyr :D21:21
Wildefyrwe welcome women too :p21:21
john_cephalopodaIt's funny, systemd is quite fast but nothing is faster than a system with sysvinit and no initrd.21:21
mender27That was merely a metaphor :P21:21
john_cephalopodaAlso systemd is horrible to configure.21:21
mender27Well said, John.21:22
tired890today is systemd bash day haha21:22
tired890lol, we were on and on about it earlier today21:22
mender27I'm a simple kind of guy. I like LILO and syslinux. Also, the less GUI the better :P.21:22
john_cephalopodaI am actually using bash because some program I compiled was incompatible with dash.21:22
tilmanjohn_cephalopoda: that might depend on (the number of) daemons you start at boot time21:22
Wildefyrsystemd + bash, the stuff of nightmares ..21:22
john_cephalopodaFor most PCs you don't need much at startup.21:22
Wildefyractually I'm gonna remove bash21:23
tired890mender27, you just described my setup ;) lilo + openbox on crux.. life is simple and nice21:23
Wildefyrjust realised it was still installed21:23
mender27Well, my reason for running bash is possibly the silliest. I use it, because it tells in which dir I'm at right now :p21:23
tilmanWildefyr: bad idea21:23
tilmanterribad idea21:23
WildefyrI wanna see what breaks!21:23
frinnsteverything will break21:23
mender27I'm running Void Linux on my drive, but I feel CRUX might be more to my liking21:24
tilmanoh look, pkgmk is a bash script21:24
tilmanwho would have thunk21:24
john_cephalopodaUnfortunately I didn't write down the name of the thing that wasn't compiling with /bin/sh because it was a "bad substitution" (linked to dash)21:24
frinnst/etc/rc is #!/bin/bash21:24
tilmanoh look, rejmerge is bash too21:24
Wildefyroh no!21:24
Wildefyrwhat's stopping us from rewriting it for dash?21:24
frinnstmanpower + will21:25
Wildefyrsign me up21:25
mender27I guess it's not so important, but does CRUX normally use rather recent packages? Comparing for instance to Arch Linux :).21:25
frinnstwe follow upstream as close as possible21:25
frinnstbut we avoid betas and rc's21:26
jaegerunless the beta is considered the official version, like with grub2 :P Fortunately that doesn't seem to happen often21:26
john_cephalopodaManpower is a bit lacking sometimes so packages might be outdated. Writing to the maintainer solves the problems very fast every time.21:26
frinnstand we try to avoid abi breakage. We usually hold off major breaks for the lifetime of the current release21:26
mender27Haha, GRUB2 and its versioning xD.21:27
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.2]: synergy: 1.5.1 -> 1.7.521:27
john_cephalopodaNot using GRUB at all.21:27
mender27Neither do I, john :)21:27
mender27OK, sounds very fair21:27
mender27I guess I'll finish my write-up on FreeBSD and starting twidling with CRUX tomorrow :).21:27
Wildefyrjohn_cephalopoda : see where synergy just got updated? I sent an email to the maintainer :D21:28
john_cephalopodaOne thing I like about linux is, that a lot of stuff is aviable for it and if a package is difficult to compile, there's often some static binary for it aviable by the devs.21:29
john_cephalopodaI really got to push my packages to 6c37.21:30
onoderamender27: the CRUX ports are generally more up to date than the freebsd ones from what I've seen21:30
mender27onodera: FreeBSD ports are a pretty bad example :D. They're often not up to date at all :P.21:31
onoderaalthough the port selection is smaller. It's very easy to create your own ports though since, just a bash script with build instructions.21:31
mender27I like simple :D21:31
mender27Packaging for Debian was a nightmare21:31
onoderaI haven't found package templates more simple than the crux ones21:32
cruxbot[opt.git/3.2]: dbus-glib: updated to 0.106.21:32
cruxbot[opt.git/3.2]: libpng: updated to 1.6.2121:32
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jaegerIf you do install and you want to save some time on package updates, there's an updated ISO here:
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mender27Thanks, jaeger. I just found the nvidia port in the /opt repo, but it doesn't say which version of the driver it is :(.21:36
jaeger352.63 at present, I believe21:37
mender27Ah, my bad. Should've checked the script for it. Yes, it's the main line.21:37
jaegerthere's also nvidia-sl for the short-lived branch21:38
onoderathere is nvidia and nvida-sl21:38
jaegerI don't think anyone current maintains a legacy version21:38
jaegerI don't have any cards that old so I only maintain the current drives21:38
mender27I think it's all good. The script can be re-adjusted for the legacy versions, in case I need the driver :)21:39
onoderaI maintain my own nvidia-sl port (with some small movifications), and my x didn't boot without this line21:39
onoderait's a new nvidia module they introduced in a recent update21:40
mender27onodera: I only use legacy stuff. I have a GTS 8600, a GT 610 and a GTX 295 :)21:40
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mender27The most recent driver will not work on my cards, except for the weakest, 0dB media card I have. However, the legacy drivers will. Doesn't matter, since I can download the drivers from nVidia still :).21:45
mender27Well anyhow. Thanks everyone for the warm welcomes! I'm off to bed :). See you!21:47
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.2]: wireshark: 2.0.0 -> 2.0.122:10
groovy2shoesmender27, you can get most other Borne shell variants to tell you your directory if you set PS1 properly22:11
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groovy2shoesI know FreeBSD's sh and pretty much any variant of ksh support it, not sure about the Almquist shell, though, because I haven't used it22:11
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mender27Thanks, got it. See you tomorrow! :)22:17
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onoderacrux got mentioned on the bedrock changelog23:37

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