IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2016-01-31

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john_cephalopodaThe crux page is a bit confusing. I think "Documentation" and "Wiki" should link to the same page.12:13
john_cephalopodaSo the handbook would be just part of the wiki, some kind of quick reference.12:14
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john_cephalopodaWhat is planned for the next releases of crux? Are there any todos? Anything that can be contributed to?12:53
frinnstWe havent started looking at the next release yet12:58
frinnstand proobably wont until there are major new releases of gcc and glibc12:59
john_cephalopodaIs there anything else that can be contributed to?13:00
frinnstbut if you are bored take a look at the bugtracker. dmcrypt and / encryption would be a prime candidate for a 3.3 feature13:01
frinnstprt-get "depupgrade" is also a requested feature13:01
frinnstrather, "depupdate"13:02
Wildefyrfrinnst, hey can you tell me what bash scripts could do with being converted into POSIX compatible syntax?13:02
frinnstgrep for #!/bin/bash :-)13:02
Wildefyrhaha but anywhere in particular?13:03
frinnstthe rc-scripts, pkgmk13:03
john_cephalopodaA lot of those bugs are related to packages or other things that I can't change.13:04
frinnstyeah most are ports related13:04
john_cephalopodaMost of those could also be fixed in 1 minute or less.13:05
frinnstbut in general, prt-get fixes, pkgutils fixes and documentation would be welcomed13:06
john_cephalopodaIt's a bit weird, that there are a lot of tickets, that are only small changes but open since as long as 25 March 2013.13:13
john_cephalopodaAnd older.13:13
jueWildefyr: most/all CRUX specific scripts are bash scripts and we don't see a real benefit to convert them into sh syntax13:22
john_cephalopoda(Still better than sourcemage with their 10 years old bugs, but it could be easily fixed)13:23
Wildefyrjue, but I could have a bash-free system!!13:26
john_cephalopodaLike this bug could be fixed instantly, it would be just one word to write:
john_cephalopodaBecause you'll never really use dbus without xorg.13:28
john_cephalopodaOr add a script that checks if xorg is installed.13:30
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john_cephalopodaAlso X could be disabled.13:39
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groovy2shoesthe various ksh variants support most bash extensions14:17
groovy2shoesI'm a fan of openbsd's ksh myself, but mksh is available in contrib and is about a third the size of bash14:18
Wildefyrhonestly there's some work involved (which I'm happy to do at some point)14:20
Wildefyrbut the benefit is we can run a relatively bash-free system14:20
Wildefyralso there'd surely be *some* performance benefit from making the CRUX specific scripts run on dash14:21
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tired890why is bash hated?14:22
tired890I mean go through all that to what end?14:22
groovy2shoesgood question14:22
tired890is it due to the shellshock thing ?14:23
john_cephalopodaI think it is due to bash loading a lot of stuff by default.14:23
groovy2shoesdash is really bare bones and not at all fun to use as an interactive shell14:24
john_cephalopodaLike autocompletition - even when you are executing a script.14:24
Wildefyrtired890: GNU14:24
john_cephalopodaGNU is good.14:24
john_cephalopodagcc is the best compiler around.14:24
Wildefyrsome people don't like it14:24
tired890for a desktop oriented distro thats fine.. if we were talking about openwrt or something then yes that'd be a concern14:24
frinnstthen they should run bsd or osx14:24
groovy2shoesI've sort of come to associate GNU with unnecessary bloat, tbh14:24
Wildefyrbash is just fat and slow14:25
jueif we are talking about benefit: we are using dash as sh since 3.2, because sh is called many, many times during the configure/build stage of most ports14:25
Wildefyrgcc is a good compiler though no doubts14:25
WildefyrI'm just of the opinion where we've already cut out most of bash already, why not get rid of it completely?14:26
juebut for all of our scripts like pkgmk a performance gain is more or less nothing14:26
juebecause we use bash as a programming language and here bash is better14:27
groovy2shoesmuch better, but like I said, most of those features come from ksh14:27
john_cephalopodaIt would be not a big problem to write an own set of tools. An own, good init system, for example.14:27
Wildefyrwell I'm only talking about from it a system-reliant point of view jue14:28
groovy2shoesI think it's a lost cause, Wildefyr :p14:29
Wildefyrprobably :p14:29
frinnstnothing is a lost cause, but you would have to be convincing that something is "a lot better"14:30
tilmanWildefyr: which script do you think could benefit from a speed-up?14:30
frinnstchange for changes sake is just stupid14:30
frinnstand not just "0.000% faster" - better readability, stability etc14:30
WildefyrI'll get back to you on that one14:31
Wildefyrgot dinner14:31
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cruxbot[core.git/3.2]: libcap: update to 2.2514:58
groovy2shoesthanks, cruxbot!14:59
cruxbot[opt.git/3.2]: stunnel: update to 5.3015:00
cruxbot[opt.git/3.2]: mpg123: update to 1.23.015:00
juempg123 version 1.23 :)15:01
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john_cephalopodaSomebody should take a look at what's wrong with qt5. The cmake scripts are kinda weird.15:31
john_cephalopoda(The cmake scripts delivered with it). See bugtracker.15:31
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juejohn_cephalopoda: have you tried what pedja said to you some days ago?
john_cephalopodaYes, I tried 'export QT_SELECT=qt5' and 'export CMAKE_PREFIX_PATH=/usr/share/qt5'.15:55
groovy2shoesdid you install qtchooser?15:55
john_cephalopodaNo, I didn't.15:56
john_cephalopodaIt would actually be nice to have that in some repo15:56
groovy2shoesI agree15:56
groovy2shoesI'm willing to add it to mine (baguette), but not immediately... I'm about to head out for a bit, so I can add it later if you want15:57
john_cephalopodaTo close the issue, it would be good to have it in an official repo.15:58
groovy2shoeswell, fine, snub my repo then :p15:59
john_cephalopodaPreferably opt/ since it contains qt5 already.15:59
groovy2shoesI can assure you all of my ports are of the highest quality ;)16:00
groovy2shoesall of them pass prtverify except for haskell-platform-bin, and that's haskell platform's fault16:00
john_cephalopodaIs the community repo on github or something?16:01
groovy2shoesmine is, but it doesn't have to be16:02
john_cephalopodaI meant "contrib"16:02
groovy2shoesno, I think that's kept in a "private" git repo16:02
john_cephalopodaI think it would be better to have contrib on github and make it possible for anybody to contribute than having it somewhere in a private repo.16:04
groovy2shoesI tend to agree, tbh16:04
groovy2shoesanyone can send a pull request, someone reviews it and merges if it's good, or else gives some constructive criticism and waits for a fix16:04
john_cephalopodaI kind of dislike that there are so many repos, many with nearly identical packages.16:06
john_cephalopodaTime would be better spent putting it all into a repo directly.16:07
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john_cephalopodaThat's where the AUR approach beats the crux packagedb.16:16
Wildefyrwhat? no!16:20
WildefyrAUR is anyone can upload a package16:21
Wildefyrto semi-offical repos16:21
groovy2shoesfucking sourceforge16:26
tilmanit doesn't have to be on gitweb in order for people to send their patches16:48
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groovy2shoestilman, that's true, but afaict there isn't any established protocol for doing so16:50
groovy2shoesand github's pull requests make that kind of code review pretty nice16:50
tilmanjust send in your patches16:50
tilmannobody wants to deal with github pull requests16:50
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arceteracontrib/mpv is out of date, should be 0.15.016:51
groovy2shoestilman, who do I send patches to?16:52
arceterajohn_cephalopoda: "many with nearly identical packages, the aur is better"16:52
tilmanthe guy called the Maintainer of the port16:52
arceterathe aur has many many identical packages16:52
tilmanshould be obvious16:52
groovy2shoeswhat about for orphaned ports?16:52
groovy2shoeswhat about for new ports?16:52
tilmanre. orphaned ports i'd contact frinnst or romster16:53
groovy2shoesthe AUR's model of "free-for-all" is not attractive to me16:53
tilmananyway, having a github doesn't make this shit obvious either16:53
groovy2shoessure it does16:53
tilmani call bullshit16:53
groovy2shoesyou fork the contrib repo, do what you will, file a pull request16:53
tilmansend your pull request mail to the contrib mailing list16:53
arceteragroovy2shoes: agreed16:53
groovy2shoesthe appropriate person reviews your pull request, and either merges or tells you why it won't be merged16:53
arceteracrux's decentralization is something i like about the distro16:53
groovy2shoesat which point you either fix your shit, or you live without16:54
arceterawhere's the contrib mailing list?16:55
arceteraif a port in contrib is out-of-date, should i send it to the mailing list or maintainer?16:56
john_cephalopodaarcetera: Not so many identical packages.17:00
john_cephalopodaThere is packagename and packagename-git sometimes, but that's okay.17:00
arceterahold on17:05
arceterampv-bash-completion-git mpv-build-git mpv-git mpv-legacy-af-git mpv-light mpv-nowayland mpv-plugin-xrandr mpv-sndio mpv-vapoursynth mpvhq-git17:05
john_cephalopodaI think that can be prevented when not everybody has the permission to write and what comes in is checked.17:14
john_cephalopodaAnd mpvhq is a fork.17:15
arceterajohn_cephalopoda: exactly17:18
arceterasomething i like about crux is that it's decentralized and you only add repos which you feel have high-quality ports17:19
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groovy2shoesarcetera, I agree that's an advantage, but I also feel like it could be easier to contribute to contrib17:24
groovy2shoespreferably without the "free-for-all" quality of AUR17:25
arceterasomething like void linux's method would be nice17:25
groovy2shoeshow do they do it?17:25
arceteragithub repo that you can fork and send audited and ci-built pull requests to17:25
arceterato ensure high-quality proper ports17:25
john_cephalopodaarcetera: "only add repos which you feel have high-quality ports"17:42
john_cephalopodaThat's not entirely true.17:42
arceterathat's what i do17:42
arceteraif there's a port in a repo that i feel is fucked i sync the port, fix it, and put in my own repo or 6c3717:42
john_cephalopodaI often need a bunch of dependencies for something, so I add some repo.17:43
arceterai should just like17:44
arceterawrite a script to query the portdb17:44
john_cephalopodaAnd sometimes package X from repo Y requires package Z from repo Y but is not compatible with package Z from repo Q.17:44
groovy2shoesI've seen 6c37 mentioned a few times... what is it, exactly?17:45
groovy2shoesother than a port repo17:45
groovy2shoesdoes it have some special purpose?17:45
john_cephalopodagroovy2shoes: I think the point of 6c37 is, that anybody can contribute to it.17:45
groovy2shoesI make sure all my ports only depend on the official repos and contrib17:46
arceteragroovy2shoes: I'm a part of it17:46
arceterabasically, it's kori's repository, although it's quite large17:46
arceteraI (and most other members of the team) just treat it like an experimental contrib collection17:46
groovy2shoeswhy isn't 6c37 registered with portdb?17:46
arceterabecause it's git, not rsync/httpup17:46
john_cephalopodaarcetera: When I need 5 packages from some repo, I don't really care how shitty the other packages are, still I have all the packages in my ports directory in the end.17:46
groovy2shoesyou can do httpup with git17:46
arceteragroovy2shoes: we're lazy and ask kori17:47
groovy2shoesmy repo is hosted on github and still uses httpup17:47
arceteralet me file an issue so we can have further discussion17:47
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korigroovy2shoes: yeah but then you have to maintain the REPO file17:48
korionodera was going to add a mirror to the portsdb17:48
groovy2shoeswhich is easy17:48
koridunno what happened to that17:48
korigroovy2shoes: it's also a pain in the ass17:48
arceterakori: howso17:49
koriI guess I could set up a git hook or something17:49
koribut ideally crux should move to git because it syncs faster :)17:49
arceterakori: literally all we need to do though is17:49
korithe devs said "more testing and stability is required"17:49
arceterai suppose that'd also mean we need it in core/17:49
koriyes, it would17:49
arceterathat seems like something for 3.317:49
korigroovy2shoes: for the purposes of the crux community 6c37 is an easy to contrib to repository17:50
korithere are advantages to joining 6c37 as opposed to just maintaining your own repo17:50
korisuch as, you have more eyes looking at your ports17:51
john_cephalopodarsync should be preferred over git.17:51
arceterait's basically just contrib-edgyports/17:51
koriand, to us, we have another pair17:51
koriwe have many "exclusive" ports that would be a pain in the ass to port otherwise17:51
koriblender and neovim are the two biggest I believe17:51
john_cephalopodaJoin our exclusive community today and come on the world's biggest cruiseship - all inclusive!17:51
arceterawell there are other neovim ports17:52
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arceterabut none of them work17:52
korijohn_cephalopoda: wouldn't that mean it's an inclusive community then?17:52
koriarcetera: I was the first to port it17:52
arceterayeah neovim is a pain17:52
koriit was a pain in the ass too17:52
john_cephalopodaDoes blender work now?17:52
koribut now that there's release tarballs17:52
koriits easier to maintain17:52
korijohn_cephalopoda: it SHOULD work17:52
groovy2shoesno neovim for me until there's neogvim17:52
arceterajohn_cephalopoda: yes.17:52
john_cephalopodakori: It didn't work for me last time.17:52
koriI'm mostly proud of my font ports17:52
kori┐('~'; )┌17:52
arceterafile an issue17:52
john_cephalopodaThere was an issue report but it was closed because it worked for somebody.17:53
korianother thing about 6c37: Wildefyr is currently working on a script that will update the git ports automatically17:54
arceterayes, and the issue was closed because it was fixed17:54
koribasically it'll make the repo self-maintainable17:54
arceteraaka footprints don't fuck themselves17:54
groovy2shoesso you're willing to run an update script periodically but not httpup-repgen? :p17:54
arceterai just use the git driver17:54
korigroovy2shoes: it's mostly a political position too17:55
groovy2shoesbut portdb doesn't know about the git driver17:55
korithe devs do, though17:55
groovy2shoeskori, care to elaborate?17:55
koriI'm still not sure what's missing17:55
arceteraconsidering the large majority of crux users (as it's a small community) know about 6c37, we probably don't need it in portdb17:55
groovy2shoesI didn't know about it until just now...17:55
john_cephalopoda-- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!17:55
korigroovy2shoes: the git driver is many times faster17:55
groovy2shoeskori, that seems technical rather than political17:56
koriand we want httpup to be replaced by git17:56
korion the core distro17:56
groovy2shoesand tbh I haven't noticed anything slow about httpup17:56
arceterakori: i suppose we could do httpup AND git17:56
korigroovy2shoes: have you used the git driver?17:56
arceterahttpup as a legacy option and git recommended17:56
groovy2shoesI think httpup is pretty sweet17:56
groovy2shoeskori, no I have not17:56
arceterait's included with the git package17:56
arceteraso you probably already have it17:56
john_cephalopodaGit sucks for packages.17:56
groovy2shoesI agree with john_cephalopoda17:57
john_cephalopodaRsync should be used, git's overhead is too large-17:57
arceterakori: should we file an issue about this and see what everyone else thinks?17:57
koriarcetera: onodera was going to add a httpup mirror @ his website17:57
koriand I gave him the OK17:57
arceteraor we could just do what groovy2shoes did17:57
arceteraand have it use raw.githubusercontent.com17:58
arceterathen add httpup-repgen to port adding/updating procedures17:58
arceteraor, someone could periodically run httpup-repgen on a server or something17:58
groovy2shoesit really takes 2 seconds to run http-repgen on the repo, then you just commit REPO with your other files and you're done18:00
korigroovy2shoes: with the git driver you don't even need to do that18:00
koriit's petty, sure18:00
koribut it's 2 seconds I don't have to take now18:01
groovy2shoesthen update portdb to support the git driver :p18:01
korinevermind the fact it takes way longer to sync the ports with the git driver18:01
korihttpup driver18:01
korigroovy2shoes: that's the goal18:01
arceterakori: should we just add it as legacy18:01
groovy2shoesdoes it, though?18:01
koriarcetera: I had a commitment to non-legacy18:01
arceteraso we can have it in portdb until 3.3 or 3.418:01
korigroovy2shoes: I could run a time thing here18:01
arceterawhen git is adopted18:01
korior you could do it yourself18:01
groovy2shoeshttpup seems pretty fast to me18:01
arceterakori: hell if you want I'll do it18:02
koriarcetera: time it18:02
groovy2shoesmaybe when the repo gets huge there'll be noticeable slowdown, but I haven't experienced any slowdown18:02
arceterakori: listen honestly18:02
arceterai don't give a shit about time and i will use the git driver18:02
groovy2shoesand I'm sure the initial git clone takes a little while, fetching all the history and stuff18:02
arceterabut since people obviously want httpup compatibility18:02
arceterawe should add httpup compatibility18:02
arceteraalso because of the portdb18:02
groovy2shoesI don't really care about httpup compatibility, per se, it just would be much more discoverable on the portdb18:03
arceteraand since it might take a while or never happen that the git driver is part of the core system18:03
arceterahence no portdb18:03
arceterawe should make an httpup repo as well18:03
groovy2shoesanyway, I've gotta run, y'all have my two cents18:08
arceterakori: should i just file an issue about httpup and such so we can get what other team members think about this?18:09
arceteraor discuss it in #6c3718:09
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korigo on18:10
arceteraI'm making an issue18:20
arceteraissue made18:25
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fpibbwhen installing crux with grub and efibootmgr should i mount my boot partition to /boot/ or /boot/efi?20:10
jaegereither is fine. I use /boot/efi20:22
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fpibbjaeger: so now i can get the grub prompt, but when I select a boot option, I get the error "No suitable video device found. Booting in blind mode"21:16
fpibbany idea where to go from here?21:17
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jaegerfpibb: did you create grub.cfg manually or with grub-mkconfig?21:24
fpibbi created it manually21:25
jaegeryou probably need to load efi_gop and make sure you have EFIFB support in your kernel config21:25
fpibbok, for grub device names would (hd1,gpt1) be /dev/sdb2?21:27
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jaegerusually, yeah21:27
jaeger <-- an example that uses UUID (which you can ignore, just linking it for the UEFI part)21:29
john_cephalopodaI'd love to have gptfdisk in the next crux iso.21:31
john_cephalopodaI prefer an ncurses interface for partitioning over a commandline interface without any visual feedback.21:32
jaegerThe last time I used gdisk/gptfdisk it automatically converted msdos partition tables to gpt tables when you ran it, no prompt. A big no no, in my opinion. Has that been fixed?21:34
jaegerwas a few years ago21:34
john_cephalopodaI am sure I read that some command exists to convert tables, so it is likely not automatically.21:37
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fpibbfinally got it jaeger, thanks for the help21:46
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frinnstthe problem with gptfdisk is that it demends on icu22:39
frinnstand *everything* will link against icu22:39
frinnstso we would need to go all-in on icu22:40
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retardicu -_-23:00
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