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| brian|lfs | hey tired890 | 07:04 |
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| john_cephalopoda | The crux page is a bit confusing. I think "Documentation" and "Wiki" should link to the same page. | 12:13 |
| john_cephalopoda | So the handbook would be just part of the wiki, some kind of quick reference. | 12:14 |
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| john_cephalopoda | What is planned for the next releases of crux? Are there any todos? Anything that can be contributed to? | 12:53 |
| frinnst | We havent started looking at the next release yet | 12:58 |
| frinnst | and proobably wont until there are major new releases of gcc and glibc | 12:59 |
| john_cephalopoda | Is there anything else that can be contributed to? | 13:00 |
| frinnst | but if you are bored take a look at the bugtracker. dmcrypt and / encryption would be a prime candidate for a 3.3 feature | 13:01 |
| john_cephalopoda | ok. | 13:01 |
| frinnst | prt-get "depupgrade" is also a requested feature | 13:01 |
| frinnst | rather, "depupdate" | 13:02 |
| Wildefyr | frinnst, hey can you tell me what bash scripts could do with being converted into POSIX compatible syntax? | 13:02 |
| frinnst | grep for #!/bin/bash :-) | 13:02 |
| Wildefyr | haha but anywhere in particular? | 13:03 |
| frinnst | the rc-scripts, pkgmk | 13:03 |
| Wildefyr | gottcha | 13:03 |
| john_cephalopoda | A lot of those bugs are related to packages or other things that I can't change. | 13:04 |
| frinnst | yeah most are ports related | 13:04 |
| john_cephalopoda | Most of those could also be fixed in 1 minute or less. | 13:05 |
| frinnst | but in general, prt-get fixes, pkgutils fixes and documentation would be welcomed | 13:06 |
| john_cephalopoda | It's a bit weird, that there are a lot of tickets, that are only small changes but open since as long as 25 March 2013. | 13:13 |
| john_cephalopoda | And older. | 13:13 |
| jue | Wildefyr: most/all CRUX specific scripts are bash scripts and we don't see a real benefit to convert them into sh syntax | 13:22 |
| john_cephalopoda | (Still better than sourcemage with their 10 years old bugs, but it could be easily fixed) | 13:23 |
| Wildefyr | jue, but I could have a bash-free system!! | 13:26 |
| john_cephalopoda | Like this bug could be fixed instantly, it would be just one word to write: https://crux.nu/bugs/index.php?do=details&task_id=909&project=1&order=id&sort=desc&pagenum=2 | 13:27 |
| john_cephalopoda | Because you'll never really use dbus without xorg. | 13:28 |
| john_cephalopoda | Or add a script that checks if xorg is installed. | 13:30 |
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| john_cephalopoda | Also X could be disabled. | 13:39 |
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| groovy2shoes | the various ksh variants support most bash extensions | 14:17 |
| groovy2shoes | I'm a fan of openbsd's ksh myself, but mksh is available in contrib and is about a third the size of bash | 14:18 |
| Wildefyr | ^ | 14:19 |
| Wildefyr | honestly there's some work involved (which I'm happy to do at some point) | 14:20 |
| Wildefyr | but the benefit is we can run a relatively bash-free system | 14:20 |
| Wildefyr | also there'd surely be *some* performance benefit from making the CRUX specific scripts run on dash | 14:21 |
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| tired890 | why is bash hated? | 14:22 |
| tired890 | I mean go through all that to what end? | 14:22 |
| groovy2shoes | good question | 14:22 |
| tired890 | is it due to the shellshock thing ? | 14:23 |
| john_cephalopoda | I think it is due to bash loading a lot of stuff by default. | 14:23 |
| groovy2shoes | dash is really bare bones and not at all fun to use as an interactive shell | 14:24 |
| john_cephalopoda | Like autocompletition - even when you are executing a script. | 14:24 |
| Wildefyr | tired890: GNU | 14:24 |
| john_cephalopoda | GNU is good. | 14:24 |
| john_cephalopoda | gcc is the best compiler around. | 14:24 |
| Wildefyr | some people don't like it | 14:24 |
| tired890 | for a desktop oriented distro thats fine.. if we were talking about openwrt or something then yes that'd be a concern | 14:24 |
| frinnst | then they should run bsd or osx | 14:24 |
| groovy2shoes | I've sort of come to associate GNU with unnecessary bloat, tbh | 14:24 |
| Wildefyr | bash is just fat and slow | 14:25 |
| jue | if we are talking about benefit: we are using dash as sh since 3.2, because sh is called many, many times during the configure/build stage of most ports | 14:25 |
| Wildefyr | gcc is a good compiler though no doubts | 14:25 |
| Wildefyr | I'm just of the opinion where we've already cut out most of bash already, why not get rid of it completely? | 14:26 |
| jue | but for all of our scripts like pkgmk a performance gain is more or less nothing | 14:26 |
| jue | because we use bash as a programming language and here bash is better | 14:27 |
| groovy2shoes | much better, but like I said, most of those features come from ksh | 14:27 |
| john_cephalopoda | It would be not a big problem to write an own set of tools. An own, good init system, for example. | 14:27 |
| Wildefyr | well I'm only talking about from it a system-reliant point of view jue | 14:28 |
| groovy2shoes | I think it's a lost cause, Wildefyr :p | 14:29 |
| Wildefyr | probably :p | 14:29 |
| frinnst | nothing is a lost cause, but you would have to be convincing that something is "a lot better" | 14:30 |
| tilman | Wildefyr: which script do you think could benefit from a speed-up? | 14:30 |
| frinnst | change for changes sake is just stupid | 14:30 |
| frinnst | and not just "0.000% faster" - better readability, stability etc | 14:30 |
| Wildefyr | I'll get back to you on that one | 14:31 |
| Wildefyr | got dinner | 14:31 |
| Wildefyr | nomnom | 14:31 |
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| cruxbot | [core.git/3.2]: libcap: update to 2.25 | 14:58 |
| groovy2shoes | thanks, cruxbot! | 14:59 |
| cruxbot | [opt.git/3.2]: stunnel: update to 5.30 | 15:00 |
| cruxbot | [opt.git/3.2]: mpg123: update to 1.23.0 | 15:00 |
| jue | mpg123 version 1.23 :) | 15:01 |
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| john_cephalopoda | Somebody should take a look at what's wrong with qt5. The cmake scripts are kinda weird. | 15:31 |
| john_cephalopoda | (The cmake scripts delivered with it). See bugtracker. | 15:31 |
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| jue | john_cephalopoda: have you tried what pedja said to you some days ago? http://irclogs.shortcircuit.net.au/%23crux/2016-01-28.log.html#t20:07:46 | 15:48 |
| john_cephalopoda | Yes, I tried 'export QT_SELECT=qt5' and 'export CMAKE_PREFIX_PATH=/usr/share/qt5'. | 15:55 |
| groovy2shoes | did you install qtchooser? | 15:55 |
| john_cephalopoda | No, I didn't. | 15:56 |
| john_cephalopoda | It would actually be nice to have that in some repo | 15:56 |
| groovy2shoes | I agree | 15:56 |
| groovy2shoes | I'm willing to add it to mine (baguette), but not immediately... I'm about to head out for a bit, so I can add it later if you want | 15:57 |
| john_cephalopoda | To close the issue, it would be good to have it in an official repo. | 15:58 |
| groovy2shoes | well, fine, snub my repo then :p | 15:59 |
| john_cephalopoda | Preferably opt/ since it contains qt5 already. | 15:59 |
| groovy2shoes | I can assure you all of my ports are of the highest quality ;) | 16:00 |
| groovy2shoes | all of them pass prtverify except for haskell-platform-bin, and that's haskell platform's fault | 16:00 |
| john_cephalopoda | Is the community repo on github or something? | 16:01 |
| groovy2shoes | mine is, but it doesn't have to be | 16:02 |
| john_cephalopoda | I meant "contrib" | 16:02 |
| groovy2shoes | oh | 16:02 |
| groovy2shoes | no, I think that's kept in a "private" git repo | 16:02 |
| groovy2shoes | https://crux.nu/gitweb/?p=ports/contrib.git;a=summary | 16:03 |
| john_cephalopoda | I think it would be better to have contrib on github and make it possible for anybody to contribute than having it somewhere in a private repo. | 16:04 |
| groovy2shoes | I tend to agree, tbh | 16:04 |
| groovy2shoes | anyone can send a pull request, someone reviews it and merges if it's good, or else gives some constructive criticism and waits for a fix | 16:04 |
| john_cephalopoda | I kind of dislike that there are so many repos, many with nearly identical packages. | 16:06 |
| john_cephalopoda | Time would be better spent putting it all into a repo directly. | 16:07 |
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| Wildefyr | agreed | 16:14 |
| john_cephalopoda | That's where the AUR approach beats the crux packagedb. | 16:16 |
| Wildefyr | what? no! | 16:20 |
| Wildefyr | AUR is anyone can upload a package | 16:21 |
| Wildefyr | to semi-offical repos | 16:21 |
| groovy2shoes | fucking sourceforge | 16:26 |
| tilman | it doesn't have to be on gitweb in order for people to send their patches | 16:48 |
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| groovy2shoes | tilman, that's true, but afaict there isn't any established protocol for doing so | 16:50 |
| groovy2shoes | and github's pull requests make that kind of code review pretty nice | 16:50 |
| tilman | just send in your patches | 16:50 |
| tilman | nobody wants to deal with github pull requests | 16:50 |
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| arcetera | contrib/mpv is out of date, should be 0.15.0 | 16:51 |
| groovy2shoes | tilman, who do I send patches to? | 16:52 |
| arcetera | john_cephalopoda: "many with nearly identical packages, the aur is better" | 16:52 |
| tilman | the guy called the Maintainer of the port | 16:52 |
| arcetera | the aur has many many identical packages | 16:52 |
| tilman | should be obvious | 16:52 |
| groovy2shoes | what about for orphaned ports? | 16:52 |
| groovy2shoes | what about for new ports? | 16:52 |
| tilman | re. orphaned ports i'd contact frinnst or romster | 16:53 |
| groovy2shoes | the AUR's model of "free-for-all" is not attractive to me | 16:53 |
| tilman | anyway, having a github doesn't make this shit obvious either | 16:53 |
| groovy2shoes | sure it does | 16:53 |
| tilman | i call bullshit | 16:53 |
| groovy2shoes | you fork the contrib repo, do what you will, file a pull request | 16:53 |
| tilman | send your pull request mail to the contrib mailing list | 16:53 |
| arcetera | groovy2shoes: agreed | 16:53 |
| groovy2shoes | the appropriate person reviews your pull request, and either merges or tells you why it won't be merged | 16:53 |
| arcetera | crux's decentralization is something i like about the distro | 16:53 |
| groovy2shoes | at which point you either fix your shit, or you live without | 16:54 |
| arcetera | also | 16:55 |
| arcetera | where's the contrib mailing list? | 16:55 |
| tilman | https://lists.crux.nu/mailman/listinfo/crux-contrib | 16:56 |
| arcetera | if a port in contrib is out-of-date, should i send it to the mailing list or maintainer? | 16:56 |
| tilman | maintainer | 16:56 |
| arcetera | okay | 16:57 |
| john_cephalopoda | arcetera: Not so many identical packages. | 17:00 |
| john_cephalopoda | There is packagename and packagename-git sometimes, but that's okay. | 17:00 |
| arcetera | hold on | 17:05 |
| arcetera | mpv-bash-completion-git mpv-build-git mpv-git mpv-legacy-af-git mpv-light mpv-nowayland mpv-plugin-xrandr mpv-sndio mpv-vapoursynth mpvhq-git | 17:05 |
| john_cephalopoda | I think that can be prevented when not everybody has the permission to write and what comes in is checked. | 17:14 |
| john_cephalopoda | And mpvhq is a fork. | 17:15 |
| arcetera | john_cephalopoda: exactly | 17:18 |
| arcetera | something i like about crux is that it's decentralized and you only add repos which you feel have high-quality ports | 17:19 |
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| groovy2shoes | arcetera, I agree that's an advantage, but I also feel like it could be easier to contribute to contrib | 17:24 |
| groovy2shoes | preferably without the "free-for-all" quality of AUR | 17:25 |
| arcetera | something like void linux's method would be nice | 17:25 |
| groovy2shoes | how do they do it? | 17:25 |
| arcetera | github repo that you can fork and send audited and ci-built pull requests to | 17:25 |
| arcetera | to ensure high-quality proper ports | 17:25 |
| john_cephalopoda | arcetera: "only add repos which you feel have high-quality ports" | 17:42 |
| john_cephalopoda | That's not entirely true. | 17:42 |
| arcetera | that's what i do | 17:42 |
| arcetera | if there's a port in a repo that i feel is fucked i sync the port, fix it, and put in my own repo or 6c37 | 17:42 |
| john_cephalopoda | I often need a bunch of dependencies for something, so I add some repo. | 17:43 |
| arcetera | i should just like | 17:44 |
| arcetera | write a script to query the portdb | 17:44 |
| john_cephalopoda | And sometimes package X from repo Y requires package Z from repo Y but is not compatible with package Z from repo Q. | 17:44 |
| groovy2shoes | I've seen 6c37 mentioned a few times... what is it, exactly? | 17:45 |
| groovy2shoes | other than a port repo | 17:45 |
| groovy2shoes | does it have some special purpose? | 17:45 |
| john_cephalopoda | groovy2shoes: I think the point of 6c37 is, that anybody can contribute to it. | 17:45 |
| groovy2shoes | I make sure all my ports only depend on the official repos and contrib | 17:46 |
| arcetera | groovy2shoes: I'm a part of it | 17:46 |
| arcetera | basically, it's kori's repository, although it's quite large | 17:46 |
| arcetera | I (and most other members of the team) just treat it like an experimental contrib collection | 17:46 |
| groovy2shoes | why isn't 6c37 registered with portdb? | 17:46 |
| arcetera | because it's git, not rsync/httpup | 17:46 |
| john_cephalopoda | arcetera: When I need 5 packages from some repo, I don't really care how shitty the other packages are, still I have all the packages in my ports directory in the end. | 17:46 |
| groovy2shoes | you can do httpup with git | 17:46 |
| arcetera | groovy2shoes: we're lazy and ask kori | 17:47 |
| groovy2shoes | my repo is hosted on github and still uses httpup | 17:47 |
| arcetera | let me file an issue so we can have further discussion | 17:47 |
| groovy2shoes | https://crux.nu/portdb/?a=repo&q=baguette | 17:47 |
| groovy2shoes | https://github.com/baguette/crux-ports | 17:48 |
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| kori | groovy2shoes: yeah but then you have to maintain the REPO file | 17:48 |
| kori | onodera was going to add a mirror to the portsdb | 17:48 |
| groovy2shoes | which is easy | 17:48 |
| kori | dunno what happened to that | 17:48 |
| kori | groovy2shoes: it's also a pain in the ass | 17:48 |
| arcetera | kori: howso | 17:49 |
| kori | I guess I could set up a git hook or something | 17:49 |
| arcetera | uh | 17:49 |
| kori | but ideally crux should move to git because it syncs faster :) | 17:49 |
| arcetera | kori: literally all we need to do though is | 17:49 |
| kori | the devs said "more testing and stability is required" | 17:49 |
| arcetera | i suppose that'd also mean we need it in core/ | 17:49 |
| kori | yes, it would | 17:49 |
| arcetera | that seems like something for 3.3 | 17:49 |
| kori | groovy2shoes: for the purposes of the crux community 6c37 is an easy to contrib to repository | 17:50 |
| kori | there are advantages to joining 6c37 as opposed to just maintaining your own repo | 17:50 |
| kori | such as, you have more eyes looking at your ports | 17:51 |
| john_cephalopoda | rsync should be preferred over git. | 17:51 |
| arcetera | it's basically just contrib-edgyports/ | 17:51 |
| kori | and, to us, we have another pair | 17:51 |
| kori | :) | 17:51 |
| kori | we have many "exclusive" ports that would be a pain in the ass to port otherwise | 17:51 |
| kori | blender and neovim are the two biggest I believe | 17:51 |
| john_cephalopoda | Join our exclusive community today and come on the world's biggest cruiseship - all inclusive! | 17:51 |
| arcetera | well there are other neovim ports | 17:52 |
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| arcetera | but none of them work | 17:52 |
| kori | john_cephalopoda: wouldn't that mean it's an inclusive community then? | 17:52 |
| kori | haha | 17:52 |
| kori | arcetera: I was the first to port it | 17:52 |
| arcetera | yeah neovim is a pain | 17:52 |
| kori | it was a pain in the ass too | 17:52 |
| john_cephalopoda | Does blender work now? | 17:52 |
| kori | but now that there's release tarballs | 17:52 |
| kori | its easier to maintain | 17:52 |
| kori | john_cephalopoda: it SHOULD work | 17:52 |
| groovy2shoes | no neovim for me until there's neogvim | 17:52 |
| arcetera | john_cephalopoda: yes. | 17:52 |
| john_cephalopoda | kori: It didn't work for me last time. | 17:52 |
| kori | I'm mostly proud of my font ports | 17:52 |
| kori | ┐('~'; )┌ | 17:52 |
| arcetera | file an issue | 17:52 |
| john_cephalopoda | There was an issue report but it was closed because it worked for somebody. | 17:53 |
| kori | another thing about 6c37: Wildefyr is currently working on a script that will update the git ports automatically | 17:54 |
| arcetera | yes, and the issue was closed because it was fixed | 17:54 |
| kori | basically it'll make the repo self-maintainable | 17:54 |
| arcetera | aka footprints don't fuck themselves | 17:54 |
| groovy2shoes | so you're willing to run an update script periodically but not httpup-repgen? :p | 17:54 |
| arcetera | i just use the git driver | 17:54 |
| kori | groovy2shoes: it's mostly a political position too | 17:55 |
| groovy2shoes | but portdb doesn't know about the git driver | 17:55 |
| kori | the devs do, though | 17:55 |
| groovy2shoes | kori, care to elaborate? | 17:55 |
| kori | I'm still not sure what's missing | 17:55 |
| arcetera | considering the large majority of crux users (as it's a small community) know about 6c37, we probably don't need it in portdb | 17:55 |
| groovy2shoes | I didn't know about it until just now... | 17:55 |
| john_cephalopoda | -- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred! | 17:55 |
| kori | groovy2shoes: the git driver is many times faster | 17:55 |
| arcetera | well | 17:56 |
| groovy2shoes | kori, that seems technical rather than political | 17:56 |
| kori | and we want httpup to be replaced by git | 17:56 |
| kori | on the core distro | 17:56 |
| groovy2shoes | and tbh I haven't noticed anything slow about httpup | 17:56 |
| arcetera | kori: i suppose we could do httpup AND git | 17:56 |
| kori | groovy2shoes: have you used the git driver? | 17:56 |
| arcetera | httpup as a legacy option and git recommended | 17:56 |
| groovy2shoes | I think httpup is pretty sweet | 17:56 |
| groovy2shoes | kori, no I have not | 17:56 |
| arcetera | it's included with the git package | 17:56 |
| arcetera | so you probably already have it | 17:56 |
| john_cephalopoda | Git sucks for packages. | 17:56 |
| kori | groovy2shoes: https://github.com/6c37/crux-ports/wiki/Installing-the-git-driver-and-adding-the-6c37-repo | 17:57 |
| groovy2shoes | I agree with john_cephalopoda | 17:57 |
| john_cephalopoda | Rsync should be used, git's overhead is too large- | 17:57 |
| arcetera | kori: should we file an issue about this and see what everyone else thinks? | 17:57 |
| kori | arcetera: onodera was going to add a httpup mirror @ his website | 17:57 |
| kori | and I gave him the OK | 17:57 |
| arcetera | or we could just do what groovy2shoes did | 17:57 |
| arcetera | and have it use raw.githubusercontent.com | 17:58 |
| arcetera | then add httpup-repgen to port adding/updating procedures | 17:58 |
| arcetera | or, someone could periodically run httpup-repgen on a server or something | 17:58 |
| groovy2shoes | it really takes 2 seconds to run http-repgen on the repo, then you just commit REPO with your other files and you're done | 18:00 |
| kori | groovy2shoes: with the git driver you don't even need to do that | 18:00 |
| kori | it's petty, sure | 18:00 |
| kori | but it's 2 seconds I don't have to take now | 18:01 |
| groovy2shoes | then update portdb to support the git driver :p | 18:01 |
| kori | nevermind the fact it takes way longer to sync the ports with the git driver | 18:01 |
| kori | whoops | 18:01 |
| kori | httpup driver | 18:01 |
| kori | groovy2shoes: that's the goal | 18:01 |
| arcetera | kori: should we just add it as legacy | 18:01 |
| groovy2shoes | does it, though? | 18:01 |
| kori | arcetera: I had a commitment to non-legacy | 18:01 |
| arcetera | so we can have it in portdb until 3.3 or 3.4 | 18:01 |
| kori | groovy2shoes: I could run a time thing here | 18:01 |
| arcetera | when git is adopted | 18:01 |
| kori | or you could do it yourself | 18:01 |
| groovy2shoes | httpup seems pretty fast to me | 18:01 |
| arcetera | kori: hell if you want I'll do it | 18:02 |
| kori | arcetera: time it | 18:02 |
| groovy2shoes | maybe when the repo gets huge there'll be noticeable slowdown, but I haven't experienced any slowdown | 18:02 |
| arcetera | kori: listen honestly | 18:02 |
| arcetera | i don't give a shit about time and i will use the git driver | 18:02 |
| groovy2shoes | and I'm sure the initial git clone takes a little while, fetching all the history and stuff | 18:02 |
| arcetera | but since people obviously want httpup compatibility | 18:02 |
| arcetera | we should add httpup compatibility | 18:02 |
| arcetera | also because of the portdb | 18:02 |
| groovy2shoes | I don't really care about httpup compatibility, per se, it just would be much more discoverable on the portdb | 18:03 |
| arcetera | exactly | 18:03 |
| arcetera | and since it might take a while or never happen that the git driver is part of the core system | 18:03 |
| arcetera | hence no portdb | 18:03 |
| arcetera | we should make an httpup repo as well | 18:03 |
| groovy2shoes | anyway, I've gotta run, y'all have my two cents | 18:08 |
| arcetera | kori: should i just file an issue about httpup and such so we can get what other team members think about this? | 18:09 |
| arcetera | or discuss it in #6c37 | 18:09 |
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| kori | go on | 18:10 |
| arcetera | I'm making an issue | 18:20 |
| arcetera | issue made | 18:25 |
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| fpibb | when installing crux with grub and efibootmgr should i mount my boot partition to /boot/ or /boot/efi? | 20:10 |
| jaeger | either is fine. I use /boot/efi | 20:22 |
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| fpibb | jaeger: so now i can get the grub prompt, but when I select a boot option, I get the error "No suitable video device found. Booting in blind mode" | 21:16 |
| fpibb | any idea where to go from here? | 21:17 |
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| jaeger | fpibb: did you create grub.cfg manually or with grub-mkconfig? | 21:24 |
| fpibb | i created it manually | 21:25 |
| jaeger | you probably need to load efi_gop and make sure you have EFIFB support in your kernel config | 21:25 |
| fpibb | ok, for grub device names would (hd1,gpt1) be /dev/sdb2? | 21:27 |
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| jaeger | usually, yeah | 21:27 |
| jaeger | http://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/crux/files/grub2-efi.cfg.txt <-- an example that uses UUID (which you can ignore, just linking it for the UEFI part) | 21:29 |
| john_cephalopoda | I'd love to have gptfdisk in the next crux iso. | 21:31 |
| john_cephalopoda | I prefer an ncurses interface for partitioning over a commandline interface without any visual feedback. | 21:32 |
| jaeger | The last time I used gdisk/gptfdisk it automatically converted msdos partition tables to gpt tables when you ran it, no prompt. A big no no, in my opinion. Has that been fixed? | 21:34 |
| jaeger | was a few years ago | 21:34 |
| john_cephalopoda | I am sure I read that some command exists to convert tables, so it is likely not automatically. | 21:37 |
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| fpibb | finally got it jaeger, thanks for the help | 21:46 |
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| frinnst | the problem with gptfdisk is that it demends on icu | 22:39 |
| frinnst | and *everything* will link against icu | 22:39 |
| frinnst | so we would need to go all-in on icu | 22:40 |
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| retard | icu -_- | 23:00 |
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