IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2016-02-27

cruxbot[contrib.git/3.2]: nginx: updated to version 1.9.1200:19
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brian|lfsthis is gradually turning into a pain in the rear05:19
brian|lfshey romster you around?05:39
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john_cephalopodaIs it possible to find out the minimum dependencies of a program, so when finddep outputs "glew, mesa3d" it says "glew", since glew depends on mesa3d.11:10
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joacimjohn_cephalopoda: just a plain prt-get info packagename will show them12:58
john_cephalopodajoacim: Self-made package.13:02
joacimok then. don't think there is a way, unless you make a script yourself13:04
joacimdidnt understand your question at fisrt13:05
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john_cephalopodaAhrg, that qt problem might be a KDE problem...13:13
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frinnstwhat qt problem?14:13
frinnstah, you updated the bug14:15
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john_cephalopodaI talked to the KDE guys some time ago, they said that it's a qt problem.14:26
john_cephalopodaBut the whole KDE stuff is weird.14:26
john_cephalopodaReally nice applications but you need the whole, poorly-documented framework to use them.14:26
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jaegerjohn_cephalopoda: findredundantdeps -s15:11
joacimany suggestions for which applications to use for managing wifi when using a plain window manager instead of a full desktop environment?15:17
joacimwpa_supplicant works, but it is a bit of a pain to use.15:18
jaegermaybe wicd or networkmanager15:20
joacimi'll try networkmanager. list of dependencies are longer, but i'll need most of those for other software anyways15:24
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joacimnetworkmanager works16:21
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john_cephalopodawicd is nice, too16:56
john_cephalopodaHas ncurses and gtk interfaces16:57
groovy2shoesI could never get wicd to actually detect any APs16:58
LatrinaHello guys, I installed crux tonight, I must say very simple and straight forward16:59
LatrinaI have a question though16:59
Latrinahow can I add a repository for pkgadd ?17:00
Latrinaor perhaps it only works for local packages?17:00
groovy2shoesLatrina, you probably want to use prt-get17:00
Latrinaah okay.. let me check it out17:00
groovy2shoesthere's a section in the handbook about package management17:00
LatrinaThank you17:00
groovy2shoesI find it useful to enable contrib, but that's up to you17:01
LatrinaI was hoping for a binary package management system17:03
Latrinaalthough ports will just do fine17:03
Latrinaat the end of the day I only need a bunch of tools17:03
groovy2shoesthere's a third party one, but I don't recall what it's called at the moment... maybe pkg-get?17:03
Latrinano worries, ports will be okay :)17:04
Latrinahave used them all my life17:04
LatrinaI still compile stuff on old sparc64 machines17:04
Latrinahave a bunch of netra t1 105 laying around17:05
Latrinatwo ultra5 and 1 ultra 1017:05
Latrinaall with OpenBSD17:05
john_cephalopodagroovy2shoes: Not sure about crux, but on archlinux, wicd tends to be the best solution for detecting APs17:05
john_cephalopodaNow I'm using wifi-menu on arch though.17:06
groovy2shoesI run OpenBSD on an old Pentium II... works like a charm, though obviously pretty slowly ;)17:06
LatrinaI mean those are no longer machines I use in production17:06
Latrinanot because they wont be good but rather because of power consuming17:07
groovy2shoesI actually do use this one on production ¬_¬17:07
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joacimmy pentium III machine consumes less than my current main desktop =)17:29
joacimi don't think a pentium II machine would consume that much if it is fast enough for the tasks you give it17:30
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joacimsome nuc-style machine would consume hardly anything tho17:32
retard_your pentium 3 machine could be replaced with something that is far more powerful yet consumes less than one tenth what it does18:40
retard_probably at an extremely low price as well18:40
retard_i like old hardware and all18:40
retard_but i would only run it during winter18:42
joacim18:29     joacim | some nuc-style machine would consume hardly anything tho19:01
retard_< joacim> my pentium III machine consumes less than my current main desktop =)19:01
joacimbut how much would a pentium III machine running 24/7 consume compared to the cost of buying a NUC and running that 24/719:01
retard_a nuc is substantially more powerful than a pentium 3 by a factor of .. i don't know where to start19:02
joacimfor simple tasks like being a home router, it would be idle most of the time. performance wouldnt matter as much, and vs. a normal desktop computer, it would consume more or less the same19:03
tilmani'd start at 1. that's a safe bet.19:03
retard_if you have a p3 machine running and you want to replace it with something that can do the same amount of work you can probably save a factor of 1019:03
retard_in power bills19:03
joacimhow many years before before you see the savings tho?19:04
joacimhow much is a NUC new?19:04
retard_less than one19:04
retard_why are we talking about nucs19:04
retard_you don't need a nuc to replace a pentium 319:04
joacimlow power x86 compatible platform19:04
retard_you don't even need a raspberry pi to replace a pentium 319:05
joacimcould get some pc engines board too, but those are kinda pricey19:05
joacimrpi isnt x86 compatible19:05
retard_software is portable19:05
retard_is your pentium 3 running windows 98 or something19:05
joacimit is easier to run any random distro with any random package than to find arm compatible distros and packages built for arm19:06
joacimyes ofc.19:06
joacimmy old machines are mostly for compatibiltiy19:06
joacimi'm just saying they're not as bad for some tasks as people (like you) think they are. if you have a computer laying around, and you need something for a task, why not use that old computer?19:06
joacimno reason to spend on something brand new19:07
joacimunless you run a business and want support agreement and such, but then you wouldn't even consider an rpi19:07
retard_don't spend on something brand new, but upgrade to an old computer that is less updated19:07
retard_but still freely available19:07
retard_less outdated19:07
retard_pentium 3s are so outdated that they waste a huge amount of electricity relative to what they can be used for19:08
joacimcan dumpsterdive ofc.19:08
joacimbut it can take months of daily dumpsterdiving until you find something worth bringing home19:08
retard_not if you're running a p319:08
joacim"what they can be used for"19:08
retard_in that case it takes one day of dumpsterdiving until you find something that can replace what you run now while giving a substantial increase in performance and/or decrease in power consumption19:09
joacimthere's a recycling bin behind work, i go there every day19:09
joacimbehind a popular big box electronics store19:09
joacimit can take literal months before someone throws out something worth keeping19:09
joacima lot of shitty pentium 4 machines and broken junkers19:09
joacimsometimes LGA775 machines and newer, but it takes a long time before they show up19:10
joacimyou wouldnt use that Pentium III for compiling or as a part of a render farm anyways. It would stay there doing light tasks19:11
retard_the pentium 3 lacks basic power saving functionality that has been commonplace since early pentium 4, such as frequency scaling19:13
joacimnever seen a mac mini or similar low power device tho. most machines i find there would idle at 70-90W. a mac mini would idle at 15-20W19:13
retard_which means that the "lightness" of tasks has a lot less to say with such an antiquated system19:13
joacimbasic power saving functionality was introduced with the pentium III19:13
joacimtilman: I'd get at least a Pentium MMX.19:18
tilmanaccelerate those multimedias19:20
joacimindeed. multimedia cd-rom is a lot more popular now.19:21
Latrinaguys what is the most lightweight browser for a laptop with only 512mb of ram?19:26
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Latrinathats fairly too lightweight19:43
LatrinaI have a spare laptop laying around and I am going to donate it to a child19:43
Latrinais a dv1000 with 521mb ram19:43
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tired890unfortunately modern web browsers are ridiculously expensive in terms of resources.. especially when left running for a while20:11
groovy2shoesthat is really a shame, though20:54
groovy2shoesit used to be that if you had old hardware, you'd slam Linux or BSD on there and suddenly it had new life... in some regards, that's still the case, but nowadays so much is oriented around the Web that having a low-intensity browser would be valuable20:55
groovy2shoesbut "light" browsers come in two camps: too basic for the modern web, or just a light shell around Webkit/Gecko which themselves are pretty resource hungry20:55
groovy2shoesmost of what makes modern browsers weighty, though, is that they trade memory for speed...  things like caching and prelinking and JavaScript JIT make browsers much faster, but also much more memory hungry20:59
groovy2shoesI think something like Dillo but with better standards compliance and a simple bytecode interpreter for JS would be great for older machines21:00
torisoxombrero is pretty light21:01
retard_groovy2shoes: netsurf?21:01
retard_xombrero is webkit, and thus not at all lightweight21:01
groovy2shoessame with surf, which is "minimal" but far from lightweight due to webkit21:01
retard_ is interesting to me though21:02
torisoretard_, I'm probably mixing it with another one than21:02
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groovy2shoesretard_, I hadn't heard of NetSurf... it looks pretty cool, but it also looks like it's still lacking support for CSS3 and JS at the moment21:03
torisothere's a bunch of light browsers, but as soon you use will burn the house21:03
retard_groovy2shoes: it used to use the same js engine as firefox, but recently switched to their own thing21:04
retard_toriso: it's 2016, no need to use flash to burn the houes down21:04
groovy2shoesWikipedia says that only some development previews have any sort of JS support21:05
retard_js will do it just fine21:05
groovy2shoesif I could go back in time, I'd stop Brendan Eich from inventing JavaScript21:05
groovy2shoesand probably Lennart Pottering from inventing anything21:05
retard_i'm pretty excited about the duktape engine21:07
groovy2shoeshmm I must've looked at duktape before because the link was purple, but I don't remember :S21:09
groovy2shoesit does look worthy of excitement21:10
groovy2shoesbut, for comparison, I've got an R5RS-compliant scheme embeddable scheme interpreter that weighs in at 170K with debug information, and clocks in at under 10K RAM on startup :p21:11
groovy2shoesand that's even with full support for continuations and hygienic macros!21:13's not particularly fast, though...21:14
groovy2shoesnot unbearably slow... if I had to guess, I'd say it's probably on par with Tcl in terms of speed, but I haven't done any benchmarks yet21:15
groovy2shoesmight see about implementing a bytecode compiler for it in the future, but I want to get R7RS support finished first21:17
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