IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2016-04-04

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brian|lfswell no one would have no clue how to run CRUX besides us lol01:19
korihuh01:20
brian|lfsoh earlier conversation about Ms allowing ub ubuntu01:20
brian|lfstilman, said ms will probably allow CRUX also01:20
Romster=======> Building '/var/ports/packages/mesa3d-32#11.1.2-1.pkg.tar.xz' succeeded.02:27
Romsterworked for me in a clean docker container02:28
Romsterretard, ^02:29
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brian|lfsworked for me last time I installed it03:34
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tilmanbrian|lfs: they just execute linux binaries...05:47
tilmanafaiu05:47
brian|lfshow you doing man05:58
brian|lfsI'm feeling pretty goood tonight vodka and orange juisce05:58
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.2]: chromium: updated to 49.0.2623.11009:39
cruxbot[opt.git/3.2]: u-boot-tools: updated to 2016.0309:39
cruxbot[opt.git/3.2]: mailman: updated to 2.1.21, improved daemon script and README file09:39
NecrosporusWhy does CRUX 3.2 have that terrible new network interfaces's names like enp2s4?09:43
NecrosporusI have only one ethernet card, and I want it to be called eth009:44
NecrosporusAnd one wireless so, wlan009:44
Necrosporusor wl0 or mlan009:44
Necrosporusbut not wlp125s63209:44
RomsterConsistent Network Device Naming09:54
Romsterthere is a way to tell it to use the old names in the mailinglist but i forget where09:54
Necrosporusbut why does crux default to them?09:58
Romsterit's what upstream defaults too.09:59
Romsterhmm it might be mentioned in the hand book09:59
john_cephalopodaiirc, that way, devices can be described better because the number describe, in which PCI slot or elsewhere the card is.10:01
john_cephalopodaIt is like that for every modern linux distro,10:01
john_cephalopodaArchlinux changed to that scheme, too, a few years ago.10:01
Romsteri had cases where 2 network cards would change from eth0 to eth110:01
Romsteri used to make a udev rule to grab the MAC address to make it stick to the same ethX node.10:02
Romsterbut after the change the hardware slot doesn't move.10:02
Romsterexcept i had a rare case where mine did when i removed a second GPU10:02
NecrosporusYou pass the net.ifnames=0 on the kernel command line10:02
Romsterah yes that is it10:03
Romsterhttps://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/10:03
john_cephalopodaAlso, what is so bad about using "wlp2s0" instead of "wlan0"?10:03
Romsteryou only set it once and forget it.10:04
john_cephalopodaExactly.10:04
NecrosporusBut I have only one ethernet card and want it to be named eth0 or other sane name, not enp1234s6789wtf03omg1010:04
Romsteri only have 1 in this machine no big deal...10:04
Romsterset and forget it in the settings.10:04
Romsterbut if you really want to you know how to disable it.10:04
Necrosporusjohn_cephalopoda, that is you'd have type ifconfig each time to remember what it was? While eth0 is same everywhere and easy to remember10:05
john_cephalopodaifconfig?10:05
john_cephalopodaThat's totally outdated.10:05
Necrosporusyes10:05
Romsterdon't be surprised if it bites you (when devices load in different order) later on if you add a second network interface.10:05
Necrosporusit's not outdated10:05
john_cephalopodaip link10:05
Romsterno iet's set in /etc/rc.d/net10:05
NecrosporusRomster, how would I add a second network interface to a laptop?10:06
Romsterit's*10:06
NecrosporusI do not think that it has more than one mPSIe inside10:06
Romster/etc/rc.d/net DEV=enp3s010:06
NecrosporusSo it will never have more than two interfaces10:06
john_cephalopoda"Note: You might be familiar with the ifconfig command, which was used in older versions of Linux for interface configuration. It is now deprecated in Arch Linux; you should use ip instead."10:06
Romsteryou can set it how ever you like.10:06
Necrosporusjohn_cephalopoda, ip link is linux-only, while ifconfig works everywhere10:07
NecrosporusBSD systems do not even have ip10:07
Necrosporusbesides ip-commands are longer, for example ip route instead of just route10:07
Necrosporusor ip link address replace 192.168.0.1 dev enp123s22210:08
Necrosporusinstead of just ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.110:08
Necrosporusifconfig is much easier to use and remember10:08
Romsterip addr10:09
Necrosporusand works everywhere, even in windows (though named ipconfig)10:09
Romsterso hard10:09
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Necrosporusjohn_cephalopoda, I'm not sure, is ifconfig described in posix?10:10
Romsterso alias the commands then or stick to obsolete ifconfig but ifconfig has issues in cases10:10
Necrosporusifconfig has been started to be updated recently10:10
john_cephalopodaI am working on Linux only, so I don't need it on other OS. Also I never really touched the shell in windows because it doesn't really give you advantages.10:10
john_cephalopodaYou can't delete system files as root...10:10
RomsterBecause no-one has said it yet: iproute2 means /less/ typing!10:11
Romsterip a10:11
Romsterip r10:11
Romsterinstead of10:11
Romsterifconfig -a10:11
Romsterroute10:11
Necrosporusjohn_cephalopoda, you can, just run your shell from NtAuthority/System10:11
Romsteraddress and route...10:11
Necrosporusor how is it10:11
Romsteris that hard to remember?10:11
Necrosporusroute is easier to remember than ip r10:12
Romster-_-10:12
john_cephalopoda-_-10:12
Romsterthen make a alias route='ip r'10:12
Romsterjob done10:12
Necrosporusbeside most of ip functions has nothing to do with ip10:12
Necrosporusand it violates UNIX way10:12
Necrosporusone program should do only one thing10:12
Romstergo and tell systemd that.10:12
Necrosporusip tries to replaces quite a lot of programs with one executable10:12
Romsterip is ip related10:12
Romsterroutes tables adresses is all in the scope of ip10:13
john_cephalopodaI can't configure all interfaces with "if"config, only internet interfaces10:13
NecrosporusWell, I use CRUX exactly because I do not want to pollute my system with systemd10:13
Necrosporusotherwise I'd use Arch perhaps10:13
john_cephalopodaSystemd and pulseaudio are horrible.10:13
Necrosporusand ip10:14
Necrosporusand network manager10:14
Romsteryou got tools you can alias or use obsolete ifconfig. you can make it do the old names on network interfaces instead of complaining go customize your crux.10:14
NecrosporusIf ifconfig can't do something, its better to implement it in ifconfig than to make another utility with completely different syntax10:14
Romsteri have a page on why ifconfig is bad but i can't find it yet10:15
NecrosporusWhatever it is, *BSD system have ifconfig as the main network configuration tool. They even configure wpa with it instead of wpa supplicant, which is quite handy10:16
john_cephalopodaNobody uses network manager.10:16
xeirrri ever use wicd, then switch to wpa_supplicant10:17
john_cephalopodaI am either using wpa_supplicant standalone. Also the wifi-menu tool together with netctl on arch. Wicd is awesome, too. Haven't used it for some time though.10:18
john_cephalopoda-either10:18
jueNecrosporus: ifconfig is still available as part of the inetutils port, so use what you like10:20
NecrosporusI know, I use it already10:21
Necrosporusbut someone said that I should stop using it because it was deprecated10:22
NecrosporusI think that using solutions which don't work on other free OSes is a wrong idea, so it's ip should be deprecated, not ifconfig10:22
Romsterifconfig has known issues and bugs10:26
Romsterbut you keep using it...10:26
NecrosporusWhat bugs and issues?10:26
Necrosporusi do never need more than one IP per interface10:26
Romsterthat is what i am trying to find again...10:27
Romsteri had it bookmarked10:27
Romsterand it was done by the guy that made xtables-addons that also works on iptables10:27
john_cephalopodaHaha, bookmarks...10:27
Romsterwhat is wrong with that10:28
john_cephalopodaI got 264 browser bookmarks. On my one computer.10:28
john_cephalopoda;)10:28
Necrosporusbut ip a output is unreadable unlike ifconfig's10:28
john_cephalopodahttps://bpaste.net/show/50669d14865f ?10:29
Necrosporusifconfig formats its output into logical blocks so you clearly see how many interfaces you have, what is their addresses and stuff10:29
Necrosporussit0@NONE: <NOARP> mtu 1480 qdisc noop state DOWN group default qlen 110:29
NecrosporusWhat's that?10:29
NecrosporusSome cryptic stuff10:29
john_cephalopodaI think, it is my virtual VPN tunnel interface.10:30
john_cephalopodaYep, point-to-point tunnel.10:30
Necrosporusso ifconfig's output is much clearer, as for me10:31
john_cephalopodaYou have to enable tunnel interface in the kernel.10:31
john_cephalopodaWell, but ifconfig doesn't show my tunnel interface.10:31
Necrosporustry ifconfig -a10:31
Romsteri finally found it10:33
Romsterread this10:33
Romsterhttp://inai.de/2008/02/19 ifconfig sucks10:33
RomsterOn Linux, ifconfig is an archaic network interface configuration command. The implementation commonly encountered, "net-tools", has a number of problems which make it more and more unsuitable.10:34
RomsterThe output of ifconfig is localized, which means you get it in your preferred language. This for example breaks when other tools are used to parse its output, like grep in the simplest case. Writing a grep formula to automatically catch this is error prone. The use of resetting the environment LC_MESSAGES or LANG in every call is not that nice either.10:35
RomsterDoes not support nor use CIDR notation10:36
Romsterifconfig still operates with the old-fashioned netmasks (for IPv4).10:36
Romsternow tell me ifconfig is better10:37
NecrosporusRomster, according to the url the article is rather outdated10:37
Romsterit is still valid10:37
Necrosporusthere were new releases of GNU inetutils sinces10:37
Romsternot-tools is not being worked on last i checked10:37
Romsternet-tools10:37
Necrosporus06/10/2015 the last release10:38
Necrosporusftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/inetutils/10:38
Romsterthink what you will hang out in #netfilter and tell them ifconfig is still fine to use and see the response you get10:38
Romsteri am done with this discussion point out that ifconfig has fixed them issues?10:39
NecrosporusI do not know if it fixed them10:40
NecrosporusI only know that it is still developed so at least one of points is invalid10:41
Romsterdeveloped where?10:41
Necrosporus`Does not support nor use CIDR notation` I have no idea what's CIDR notation. Do I need it?10:42
Necrosporusand yes, parsing ifconfig output might be a bad idea, it's better to use /sys or /proc for that10:43
Romsterhttp://www.subnet-calculator.com/cidr.php10:43
Necrosporus 192.168.0.1/24 ?10:44
Romstercorrect10:44
NecrosporusI think ifconfig supports it10:44
Necrosporusok, it doesn't10:46
Necrosporusbut I do not need to set netmask usually10:46
NecrosporusThere are rules to determine it automatically10:46
Necrosporus10.x.x.x has 255.0.0.0 or /8 netmask,10:47
Necrosporus192.168.x.y has /24 mask10:47
Necrosporusso I do not have to set it manually in practice10:47
NecrosporusAnd I can calculate it myself, I think10:48
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.2]: squid: update to 3.5.1610:53
cruxbot[opt.git/3.2]: lvm2: update to 2.02.14910:53
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john_cephalopodaOh, I found a bad port in contrib11:17
john_cephalopodavirtualbox doesn't work with gcc >= 511:17
john_cephalopodaIt's VirtualBox-4.3.26. VirtualBox-5.0 is the latest version.11:18
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onoderaRomster: can you update physfs to 2.0.3?11:45
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rmullNecrosporus: ifconfig is deprecated, you can use it if you want, but it would be prudent to learn how to do things with ip as well12:00
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onoderaip has retarded syntax12:06
tired890onodera, agreed12:06
rmullIn what way?12:06
tired890freakin systemd infecting the entire ecosystem12:07
onoderahttps://lkml.org/lkml/2015/1/1/12812:07
onoderaeven linux agrees, and the majority of users as well it seems: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/43zmga/ifconfig_is_depreciated_here_is_how_to_use_ip/czm6vtj12:08
rmullOne thing I liked about openbsd is that the ifconfig command could also manage wireless interfaces, unlike in linux12:08
onoderaI'm relativly new to linux so I haven't either used ifconfig or ip, so no baby duck syndrome or nostalgia here. Yet I still think ifconfig is many many times easier12:09
rain1I like ip more but I agree with linus12:09
rain1ip has something to do with systemd?12:10
tired890you DONT break user space (or tools he's used to)12:10
tired890rain1, not really.. just this "lets change things to make use of LINUX" (ie disregard other unixen)12:10
tired890systemd spearheaded this mentality ^12:11
rain1ah yes12:11
rmullI like to think of ip syntax as hierarchical. ip [objecttype] [command] isn't that terrible.12:11
Necrosporussearch filemask '*.txt' dir /home12:14
NecrosporusWhy not to deprecated find in favor of search then?12:14
Necrosporusin my installation of crux, search is unused12:15
Necrosporussearch substring 'pron' case-insensitive filemask '*.txt' dir /home exclude /home/ftp12:16
NecrosporusOr deprecate dd12:16
Necrosporusdsk dev /dev/sda1 copy blocks 10-125 dev stdout print-progress12:17
Necrosporusinstead of find /home -name '*.txt' or dd if=/dev/sda skip=9 count=11512:18
rmullhonestly I haven't heard of those... do they exist?12:19
john_cephalopodaWhat is the difference between opt and contrib?12:23
onoderaopt is official ports that don't need to be in core or xorg I think12:24
onoderacontrib is contrib12:25
Necrosporuscontributed12:25
joacim"that reason is that I'm not a moron."12:39
joacimthat's what i like to think about myself too12:39
NecrosporusAre you an author of ip?12:40
joacimNo12:40
joacimI play video games, and I have many achievements to prove it12:41
tired890Achievement unlocked: Flaunt your achievements online12:41
Necrosporusjoacim, are the games you play Free Software?12:43
joacimi only play video games with a one time use online activation13:05
onoderahttps://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=headlines13:12
onoderaThis is really helpful for packagers13:12
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john_cephalopodaBut contrib and opt have the same e-mail address to report problems to.14:35
deus_exso?14:40
deus_exmost of the people that maintain opt have also a bunch of ports in contrib.14:41
john_cephalopodaHmm, doesn't matter anyway.14:44
deus_exindeed14:44
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deus_ex'ip vs ipconfig, for we are tired of emacs vs vim'14:47
tired890we done with nano vs vim?14:47
deus_ex(vim, obviously)14:47
deus_extired890: I've never seen that one :)14:48
tired890:)14:48
deus_exiptables vs pf/ipfw, OTOH.now, that's a discussion worth having.14:52
deus_exI could never wrap my head around iptables.14:53
deus_exbut I use ipfw on FreeBSD just fine, after reading the docs.It must be me...14:54
deus_exI wonder, was NIH syndrom the reason that pf or ipfw were never ported to Linux, or are network stacks just too different?14:56
deus_exOr the licence.14:57
tired890I hear good things about pf14:57
jaegerpf was ported to linux years ago but dropped later. I don't know why14:58
deus_exall the praise is deserved, tired89014:58
deus_exhigh quality docs, too14:59
deus_exit has it's rough edges/warts, but what software doesn't14:59
tired890touche15:00
tired890jaeger, I need to get something up and googling around didn't help15:00
tired890host has two NICs, how do I tell qemu to use a particular interface for the guest bridge?15:01
jaegerqemu doesn't care which host interface is in the bridge, it just uses the bridge itself15:01
tired890ie one is offline (but connected), the other (wireless) is online..15:01
deus_exqemu/bridge.conf ?15:01
tired890to go online in the guest I have to disconnect the wired interface15:02
tired890ip route del default via <wired> doesn't help15:02
jaegerAre you sure you're using bridging? Usually bridging can't be done on a wireless host interface15:02
tired890qemu (by default it seems) will use wired regardless of connectivity15:02
tired890ops NAT I mean15:02
jaegerqemu will use exactly what you specify in its config so double check that15:03
tired890-net nic -net user \15:03
jaegerNAT should work on either wired or wireless, unlike bridging... but I suspect you might have to restart qemu if you change between them15:03
tired890thats all I have related to network15:03
jaegerI have no idea what that setup does under the hood, you'll have to find it in the docs or maybe look for a qemu irc channel or something15:04
tired890jaeger, the internet works fine in guest, just that whenever the wired network is active (ie I connect wire to setup some router) then I guess qemu gives priority to wired (which is offline) and subequently the guest goes offline15:04
tired890jaeger, k15:04
tired890thanks15:04
deus_exI am so glad I use libvirt networking :)15:05
deus_exopenvswitch ftw15:05
jaegerI suspect that qemu just follows the default route but I don't know that for sure15:06
jaegerI also suspect it's not good at "network hotpluggin" so to speak15:06
jaegers/in/ing/15:06
deus_exnah, 'hotpluggin' sounds better15:07
tired890main PC goes offline upon plugging wired, but doing ip route del <wired gateway> brings me back online15:07
tired890guest never recovers15:07
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tired890http://www.gl-inet.com/gl-inet6416/#1442566013976-f19448f7-269815:09
tired890run minidlna + transmission on that ^15:09
tired890I reckon it beats RPi in terms of coolness15:09
deus_extired890: this is most probbaly overkill https://github.com/openvswitch/ovs/blob/master/INSTALL.KVM.md15:12
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tired890deus_ex, thanks. Looks overkill though.. I use qemu for simplicity.. I don't do virtual networking/need many adapters etc15:14
pedjatired890: it's not *that* hard to setup.Hell, I did it :).But, OK.15:15
tired890lol15:16
tired890will take a look15:16
tired890thanks :)15:16
pedjanp15:16
tired890http://www.amazon.com/WireWorld-Platinum-Starlight-Cable-Meter/dp/B00KY2NKCO15:21
tired89032 people bought this?15:22
tuduromgo doesn't build for me15:22
tuduromcoming with the error15:22
tired890the reviews are a good laugh15:23
tired890tudurom, whats the error?15:23
tuduromi think it's not the port's fault15:23
tuduromassigment count mismatch: 3 = 215:23
tuduromgo is a genius15:23
tired890prt-get readme go15:24
tuduromoh that option was disabled15:25
tuduromtired890: still doesn't work15:31
tuduromsame error15:31
tired890you depinstall it right?15:32
tuduromyes15:32
tired890well then I'd contact the maintainer, that would be prologic15:33
tired890coz I have no idea :)15:33
tuduromhere's a nice gem i found in the Pkgfile: "package godoc and vet (XXX: Temporary)"15:34
tuduromthat's where it fails15:34
pedjatudurom: I have a go port(1.5.3).It builds, but I haven't tried to actually use it to build any go apps.15:44
tuduromwhere are your ports located at?15:45
pedjaNo public repo.15:46
pedjaI can paste the Pkgfile somewhere, if you want to take a look.15:47
jaegerpedja: I have a go 1.5.3 port as well and have used it with apps :)15:47
tuduromjaeger: thanks15:47
pedjajaeger: :)15:47
jaegerhttp://sprunge.us/BTBC15:48
tuduromwhy you don't put it in your repo?15:48
tuduromthe repo from the portdb15:48
jaegerSimply because I haven't used it a lot, didn't know if it was solid15:49
jaegerIt worked for the few things I wrote but I wouldn't call it extensive testing by any means15:49
pedjajaeger: You haven't had the problem when go couldn't find system cert.pem?15:50
pedjago get would get berserk15:50
jaegerNot that I recall15:50
pedjaIt happened with $some_app_I_can't_remember_now15:51
pedjaiirc, it would complain about not being able to verify ssl cert for d/l site, because it couldn't find root certs.15:53
pedjaor something like that.trivial patch solved to root_linux.go solved *that* particular problem.15:54
pedjas/solved/for/15:55
tuduromjaeger: i'm updating your ports, compiles fine15:55
tudurom*port15:55
tuduromit was for version 1.4.3, we are at 1.615:55
jaegerIt was for version 1.5.316:04
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tuduromjaeger: well, the paths were pointing to 1.4.316:23
tudurombut it's fixed in https://github.com/tudurom/crux-ports16:24
jaegerWhat do you mean?16:38
jaegerOh, you're referring to it needing 1.4 to bootstrap?16:39
tuduromyour port was working for some reason in a dir called go1.416:39
tuduromthe value was hard-coded16:39
jaegerYes, go 1.4 is required to build 1.516:43
nwehello, does someone else got this error with crhomium ? http://devnull.sigwait.se/view/cfb6b17c16:46
nweI ahve just installed my new system and got this when I starting chromium, and I get Aw, Snap! directly from chromium16:47
tired890hi nwe, I use firefox unfortunately :)16:47
nwewhen I opening a new tab or try to visit a url it crash..16:48
jaegertudurom: ah, I see. you bootstrap 1.6 with 1.6, heh. That's kinda funny, I didn't know it was possible16:52
jaegerbootstrapping the version you're installing with the same version seems pretty funny to me but if it works, great16:53
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nwefrinnst: där?17:03
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pedjaI wonder if Crux would work with http://netboot.xyz/17:10
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pedjakwort a.k.a Crux with binary packages latest iso doesn't boot with qemu(kernel panic).Nice.17:14
penguinfanpedja, what is the panic message?17:15
pedjaI can't remember.I'll post a screenshot later.It boots, and just panics at some point.17:16
pedjaNo fancy qemu switches, -M q35 -m 1G -enable-kvm.17:18
pedjaiso sha sum checks out.17:19
Wildefyrwhy is it so hard to get a working connection on a crux ISO?17:21
penguinfanpedja, ok, post the screenshot so we can try to identify the problem17:22
penguinfan@Wildefyr, connection to what?17:23
Wildefyrpenguinfan, internet?17:23
Wildefyrnot even sure wireless is supported and dhcpcd generally might not work as well17:24
WildefyrI've had little success17:24
jaegerdhcpcd works fine. wireless would work but the firmware is generally not included17:24
Wildefyryesterday when I tried dhcpcd it didn't work17:25
Wildefyrdunno why17:25
penguinfanyeah for wifi you need to get the firmware for your network card17:25
jaegerI use it frequently on new installs, definitely works17:25
penguinfanyes for me also17:25
Wildefyrmaybe the kernel doesn't have my ethernet compiled in17:25
jaegerPossibly. lspci would show if a module isn't loaded for it. What kind of NIC is it?17:26
penguinfancheck your network card with lspci and check your kernel config17:26
penguinfanHi jeager!17:26
Wildefyrhttps://p.iotek.org/z0517:26
jaegerheyo17:27
Wildefyrit's just a realtek17:27
penguinfan@Wildefyr, is NET_VENDOR_REALTEK enabled in your kernel?17:28
jaegerThis is the ISO kernel17:28
Wildefyr^17:28
Wildefyras for wireless, I have a chromebook with a atheros 9k card in it, not sure if even that is supported by the ISO kernel17:29
jaegerI think that would use the r8169 module17:29
Wildefyryeah17:29
jaegerthat one is enabled in the ISO kernel. Does lspci -k show the module in use for that device?17:30
Wildefyrwould have to reboot17:30
Wildefyrgive me a minute17:30
pedjapenguinfan: something similar happened with one other LiveCD, based on opensuse-13.2.But most isos boot just fine, so hm.17:30
pedjaI'll recheck when I rebuild qemu, libnfs breakage should be fixed by now in master (2.6-to be)17:32
Wildefyrjaeger, apparently it is, but I'm still unable to get a connection17:35
jaegerWhat part of it fails? Error messages?17:36
Wildefyrno interfaces have a carrier17:36
jaegerSometimes it takes a little while, does it have carrier after 10-15 seconds?17:37
Wildefyrhuh17:37
Wildefyrapparently so17:37
jaegerDoes the interface have L2 link?17:37
Wildefyrtil17:37
Wildefyrdidn't know dhcpcd took forever17:37
jaegerSometimes it's quite fast, sometimes not :/17:38
Wildefyrwell that explains that17:38
Wildefyradmittedly I was a bit tired when installing crux yesterday17:38
jaegerok17:39
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rain1time to try CRUX :)17:58
ubuuu;)18:04
Wildefyr;)18:05
tired890;)18:11
nwe=)18:12
tired890( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)18:13
pedjaHeh.Both live cds that kernel panic'd work fine now with qemu.And I didn't touch it.Heisenbug?18:14
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rain1thys makes arch linu look like ubunt :P18:32
rain1now I understand18:32
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pedjanote to self: always build ocaml..thingies.. with 'make -j1'19:01
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rmullDoes anyone here own any M.2/NGFF SSDs?20:03
jaegerI've got one M.220:06
WildefyrI got a couple20:06
Wildefyrthe smaller variety though20:06
rmullI see that M.2 refers to the socket, not the bus that is used, which could be PCIE or SATA20:07
jaegercorrect20:08
Wildefyrindeed20:08
rmullDoes that mean if I have a laptop which says it has a M.2 socket, I can use either SATA or PCIE SSDs that support M.2?20:08
jaegersome motherboards even support both in the same slot20:08
jaegerDepends very much on the motherboard so check the laptop manual/manufacturer20:08
rmullokay, thanks20:11
rmullI can't find where the manufacturer specifies whether the slot support PCIE, SATA, or both20:12
jaegerwhat model laptop is it?20:12
rmulllibrem13: https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism/librem-1320:13
rmullLooks like there is one M.2 slot for the wifi, which is going to be PCIE for sure, and one slot for an SSD, which is definitely at least SATA20:13
rmullBut I bought it without any storage because I was going to get my own M.2 storage for cheaper20:13
rmullBut now I have to choose between a 2000Mbps PCIE SSD or a 500Mbps SATA SSD...20:14
jaegerbased on what little their docs say I suspect it's SATA only20:15
rmullThat seems like a reasonable assumption20:15
rmullIf it ever actually gets delivered I'll try to verify with the manufacturer20:16
jaegerIs there anything in its BIOS/UEFI that specifies?20:16
jaegerAh, don't have it yet :)20:16
rmullYeah, we'll see if I ever get it20:16
rmullI don't think I've ever had good luck with these preorder type things20:19
onoderacan anyone link me that signify page20:29
onoderaI can;t fid it...20:29
rmullWhich one?20:29
rmullOn the crux wiki?20:29
rmullhttps://crux.nu/Wiki/SignedPorts20:30
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.2]: nmap: 7.11 -> 7.1220:30
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onoderaah thanks20:32
rmullI kind of feel like the signify keys are good but could be better. GnuPG may be bloated, but unique developer keys, revocation, and the web of trust are all useful features. We'll run into issues with signify when crux.nu is compromised, when a crux developer's laptop is stolen, when a developer leaves or turns malicious, when privkeys are shared over an insecure channel, or when keys are mishandled due to stray backups or removable media20:48
rain1There definitely has to be a blacklist of untrusted keys20:48
rain1two actually20:48
rain1one for compromised keys, one for out of date keys20:49
pedjaif using signify caused this much discussion, I *can't* wait to see one when the devs decide to implement SElinux/pam/systemd in Crux.21:02
pedjaj/k, in case it wasn't obvious.21:03
jaegerpam and systemd have already been done once or twice in the past :)21:03
pedjayes, but unholy trinity at once would be epic flamefest, methinks :)21:04
jaegerheh21:05
pedjaI still remember GNU/Linux and !BASICS!21:05
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rain1pedja, but it's good to discuss this - more people thinking about it an catching mistakes hopefully21:06
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pedjarain1: and it is discussed, on the mailing list and between devs.But until we actually start to use it, we can't know how well will it actually work.21:17
pedjaso, patience.21:17
pedjaION, I almost managed to boot Crux-3.2.iso using netboot.xyz.21:19
teK__rmull: how cant you have per dev keys with signify?21:20
teK__why is resetting crux.nu and distributing new keys via an port to core/ports not helping?21:20
teK__how does gnupg help better than publishing our keys to github.com et al?21:20
teK__the chain of trust _always_ has l=2 in our use cases21:21
teK__that's a hell of a boring web of trust21:21
pedjaACTION is taking bets on 'which Crux dev will turn evil first'21:23
Wildefyrmy money is on tired89021:24
Wildefyroops21:24
Wildefyrtilman **21:24
teK__pedja: that's the fun behind this discussion, we need to be able have every dev sign every port within one repo21:25
teK__tilman just has op, nothing more21:25
Wildefyrwhat a cheapass21:25
pedjateK__: to actually sign or to be able to sign, in case the dev that maintains the port is not available?there is a difference.21:29
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pedjadev that maintains port signs that port.21:30
teK__and..?21:30
pedjaif he/she/it isn't around, who gets to sign it?How would that work?21:31
teK__using what? signify or gpg?21:31
teK__our signify keys are per repo, not per maintainer21:31
pedjaI think I get it.signify to sign port, gpg to sign  git commits?21:33
teK__no gpg at21:33
teK__all21:33
teK__we do KISS around here21:33
pedja:)21:33
teK__we sign and verify every part of a port, with a single private key shared by the devs21:34
teK__easy sig checking and easy sig management21:34
teK__in case of breakage (which did not ever happen, as far as I can recall), we roll new keys and push an update for core/ports with an announcement on crux.nu and the ML21:34
pedjathat 'shared by the devs' was a missing piece of info :)21:35
pedja-ENOTENOUGHCOFFEE on my part, apologies.21:37
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teK__no problem21:40
pedjaSo, what are the missing bits until it goes live?21:41
teK__jue promised to have a look21:41
teK__maintainers have been rather quiet wrt complaints :P21:42
teK__the code is in place and ready for a test-drive details can be found at https://crux.nu/Wiki/SignedPorts21:42
pedjaYes, I know.I've tried pkgmk.It freaked out when I tried to  build one of my ports, which is a GoodThing, since I didn't set up signify key for that repo yet :)21:44
teK__I put a description on the three options for signatures/md5sums under ' .md5sum Compatibility'21:45
teK__:-)21:45
pedjaIs the procedure same for the repos on the local system(not pulled using ports -u)?21:57
teK__which one?21:57
teK__in case of a security fail?21:57
pedjano, mine local repos.21:58
teK__well.. I dont think there is really much repo distribution without crux.nu21:58
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pedjathere is really no need to sign the private repo that only I use, but it would be cool :)22:02
teK__you can do that22:05
teK__if we do not add an option to only make signatures for some repos mandatory, you probably _have_ to22:06
teK__(or ignore signatures completely)22:06
teK__(or enable the md5 fallback)22:06
pedjaso, I create public/private key pair, and put them in /etc/ports, even though the repo is private?22:08
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pedjaAnd I'll have to figure out how to setup git hook to sign them on commit.22:10
teK__for example, yes22:15
pedjamaking them mandatory for all repos is a good idea, not many people use anything but core,opt,xorg,contrib and compat-32.22:15
pedjaand the ones that do can figure out how to start signing them :)22:16
teK__we could add an array with exceptions but yeah,.. creating the key pair is really really easy22:19
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rmullteK__: You say that we're having per-dev keys with signify, but also that we're having per-repo keys. Isn't that a contradiction?22:28
rmullOr maybe we're talking about different things22:28
pedjapublic key per repo, secret key is shared amongst devs.22:29
pedjasince they all have to have the commit privileges.22:31
rmullTo me that's not a per-dev key, that's a shared key that any one of those devs could compromise22:33
pedjaand if that happens, new is generated and distributed.That's the general idea, anyway.22:34
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pedjaHas anyone tried PXE booting Crux?If you did, how?22:41
WildefyrI've never done PXE boot on anything22:44
WildefyrI should try it sometime22:45
pedjaWildefyr: try http://netboot.xyz22:46
pedjait is awesome22:46
Wildefyrwill do22:47
jaegerI have in the past as well as network installs. It's not too tough to set up22:47
pedjajaeger: I don't see the PXE HOWTO in the wiki with your name on it ;)22:48
pedja(hint, hint)22:49
jaegerThat stuff disappeared some time back, unfortunately22:49
jaegerhttp://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/crux/files/PXE-crux.txt is still around but not updated in a long time and written by someone else22:50
pedjadamn22:50
jaegeralso http://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/crux/files/diskless.txt which was again written by someone else, I just kept it around22:51
jaegerIt wouldn't be hard to adapt one or the other to a current setup, I'm sure22:51
pedjaI tried booting Crux iso using netboot.xyz.It boots, but it can't find Crux media.22:52
jaegeryeah, glancing at their docs it won't work out of the box22:54
jaegerI have considered recently bringing back an http/ftp installer but haven't spent any time on it yet22:59
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Worksterjohn_cephalopoda, sepen knows about this and is working on it23:56
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