IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2016-09-27

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vstevehey abenz, some good news and some inconclusive news00:46
vsteveI got the r9 nano tested in windows, works perfectly, nuked my crux install, reinstalled from scratch, now the console works00:47
vsteveI have yet to attempt anything with amdgpu...and i'm now actually a bit confused with the driver options available00:47
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abenzvsteve: hey thats great01:44
abenzso now sshd works fine right?01:47
abenztry installing xorg-xf86-video-amdgpu and enable it in kernel as m01:47
abenzif its all blank then ssh into box and see logs01:48
vstevestill no go on sshd02:10
ryu0vsteve: what's the problem?02:10
vsteveI reinstalled crux from scratch, so I need to reconfigure it to come up with the system02:12
ryu0sshd won't start?02:12
vsteveand if I were a betting man, I'd wager I never set it up correctly in the past02:12
vsteveoh I'm sure it will, I just haven't gotten around to setting it up yet02:12
ryu0usually i only configure it to restrict auth options.02:13
ryu0the rest is configuring keys.02:13
ryu0i usually restrict publicly accessible servers to key only authentication.02:13
vstevewell for sshd, sure, but there was something goofy about how I set it up as a service that made it print [ERROR] on start up02:14
vsteveI could manually invoke it just fine, but the startup script never worked02:14
vsteveso I'm thinking I just flat out did it wrong02:14
ryu0i would think crux would provide a basic init script for any daemon packages.02:14
vsteveI'd love to see it if there is one02:14
ryu0ideally you shouldn't need to hand-edit them.02:14
jaegerthere is one, check /etc/rc.d/sshd02:15
vsteveI see02:16
vstevewell...that's half the battle02:16
vstevenow I just need to know what to do with it and how to invoke it at startup :p02:17
ryu0i would think there's a file to edit to enable it or some command.02:17
vsteveI'll have a dig through the wiki tomorrow, I don't have it in me to brute force invocation02:19
jaegeryou can leave it as-is and add 'sshd' to the SERVICES array in /etc/rc.conf02:19
vsteveAH, or that02:19
ryu0or, you could just RTFM.02:19
jaegerfor example: SERVICES=(lo net crond sshd named nginx chronyd postgresql dovecot postgrey dspam postfix opendkim saslauthd)02:19
vstevewhich manual?02:19
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vstevesshd is mentioned in the handbook?02:20
ryu0no, but how to enable services is.02:20
vsteveah ok02:21
vstevewelp, i managed to miss that02:22
vsteveI manage to miss a lot of things in the crux documentation and generally end up doing horrible things to my install until something works or I have to give up and start over from scratch02:22
vsteveanyway, what jaeger mentioned what exactly what I needed02:23
ryu0vsteve: perhaps it's just a lack of familiarity with linux in general?02:23
vsteveryu0, I don't know how to do ...whatever you just did02:24
ryu0i've done manual debian/ubuntu installs before. it's a bit of work but doable from reading the docs.02:25
vsteveit probably doesn't help that I'm on a webclient02:25
ryu0for those debootstrap is your friend.02:25
vsteveI'm not sure what that is02:26
ryu0every bootable linux environment needs to include a bootloader and kernel, in addition to userspace.02:26
ryu0it's a debian specific tool for installing basic packages to a chroot.02:26
ryu0it can also be used to setup a new custom install.02:26
ryu0you just have to be comfortable with some initial custom config.02:26
vsteveoh...i'm not sure I need that02:26
ryu0i did for my server.02:26
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ryu0my environment wasn't supported by the official installer.02:27
ryu0ZFS root.02:27
vsteveI mean, what you're talking about specifically,  I'm setting up a workstation for openCL projects02:27
ryu0linux mint would probably be easier to deal with.02:27
ryu0depending on what you exactly need.02:28
vstevewell I liked that crux seems to be bare bones and you add on as needed02:28
vsteveinstead of having to whittle down02:28
ryu0ah, but compiling from source gets old.02:28
vsteveI compile from source for a living, literally02:28
vsteveso I'm ok with it02:28
ryu0i meant the whole system.02:28
ryu0it's not as bad as gentoo but still.02:28
ryu0there's times i couldn't afford to wait for software to compile if i need it _NOW_02:29
vsteveI haven't run up against that kind of deadline at home02:29
abenz_compiling from source isn't that big of a deal like it was ~15 years ago02:29
abenz_nowadays PCs are fast02:29
abenz_some old timers on retro setups will still feel its a big deal though :)02:30
vsteveI think my research system can do a full fledged update on 8 cores in....2 hours?  maybe 4?02:30
ryu0what i'm saying is i can't afford delays like that.02:30
ryu0i have to do work at home.02:30
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vsteveI do too, it's just not time sensitive02:30
vsteveanyway, this got way off the rails02:31
vsteveall I needed to get sshd to work as expected ...I suspect was what jaeger pointed out02:31
vsteveI'll have to test it, but that won't be today02:32
ryu0it should work. it's BSD style init scripts.02:32
vsteveI'd imagine so02:32
ryu0they use a shell variable to hold what services to start.02:32
vsteveI have no idea what I did last time02:33
ryu0or actually...02:33
vsteveif crux strictly adheres to this, that'd be good documentation to have02:33
ryu0it's not identical but the general idea they use is shell-like config files.02:34
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ryu0outside of service specific config files.02:34
vsteveeh, so I'll have to pick through it and filter what works for crux02:35
vsteveadded to my list of things to sift through02:35
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ryu0ARCH used to be like this before they switched to systemd.02:35
vstevemixed feelings on systemd02:36
ryu0some might agree with this statement:02:37
ryu0systemd is the most successful linux virus ever written.02:37
vsteveI like that it sure boots fast02:37
vsteveother than that...I don't like that it steps away from "do one thing and do it well"02:37
ryu0but, then you find it's not that big of a deal.02:37
ryu0so what if my system boots like 15s instead of 60s? i don't reboot a lot.02:38
vsteveI reboot....incessantly02:38
vsteveso to me it matters a great deal02:38
ryu0hardware improvements have been the main cause of improvements in boot performance.02:38
vstevebut I can see why it wouldn't matter to a lot of people02:38
ryu0which doesn't require you to redo your software architecture for something that usually doesn't make much difference...02:39
vsteveif I can get a pain-free speed boost, I'll take it02:40
vsteveonce it's not pain-free, it comes down to how much of a pain in the neck is it to impliment02:40
vstevefor me, systemd is too far02:40
vstevealso arch in general is rolling release and...I can't02:42
ryu0what about manjaro?02:42
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vsteve_that was weird02:44
ryu0what about manjaro?02:45
vsteve_I hadn't heard of manjaro, but it's another thing it looks like I'd have to whittle it down02:45
vsteve_crux is like...95% of what I want in an OS02:45
abenz_in the end you'll come back to crux ;)02:45
vsteve_it just comes with a steep learning curve, which I'm fine with....I'll hit every branch on the way down, but I'll eventually have a system the way I want it02:46
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abenz_you'll appreciate being forced to learn down the road.02:46
vsteve_I already do02:46
vsteve_and it drives my coworkers insane02:46
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abenz_what are they using?02:47
ryu0vsteve_: maybe you can setup a transfer program with the local sanitarium. =p02:47
vsteve_windows and sles02:47
vsteve_I work with some dangerously inexperienced guy...he's usually busy proving to everyone within ear-shot that he can't finish a coherent thought02:49
vsteve_but what I do at home is supplementary to what I do at work....I don't have root access at work02:50
abenzI hear newer generations suffer from ADD02:50
abenzAttention deficit disorder02:50
abenzthats why books no longer appeal to the masses02:50
vsteve_this one suffers from....dangerous lack of education02:50
vsteve_wow "me want banana" really speaks to me02:51
vsteve_he's not add though, he'll talk for like...4 hours about politics02:51
vsteve_or football02:51
vsteve_or..god knows whatever else02:52
vsteve_I usually get up and leave02:52
ryu0vsteve_: ADHD/ADD is often confused with autism, so that could be a factor.02:52
vsteve_if anybody's autistic it's me, I'll own that02:53
vsteve_this guy...this guy just can't shut up02:53
vsteve_it's truly as if he likes to hear his own voice02:53
abenzwe all have our own weird little sides02:53
vsteve_but I digress, one of the sweetest parts of being home is not having to hear him talk02:54
vsteve_these are remarkably topical02:54
vsteve_I work next to a window I routinely plan on leaping through02:54
ryu0there's a dilbert comic for most work situations.02:54
vsteve_but ANYWHO, tomorrow I look forward to sorting out sshd, that should be pretty easy to work out02:55
ryu0then there's this one.02:55
ryu0vsteve_: just how old are you anyway?02:56
abenzI thought you did a clean install?02:56
abenzwhat is there to sort out? it works out of the box..02:56
abenzanyways, I need a hot drink. brb02:56
vsteve_I'll say 30ish02:56
vsteve_and as for sshd, it most certainy does not....I hope or i'll sound like a lunatic02:56
ryu0i'm younger than you then... i've used linux for a good while.02:56
vsteve_I have too, but strictly on a utilitarian basis02:57
vsteve_theres a lot of crazy shit I can do, and a lot of basic stuff I can't02:57
vsteve_simply because I've never needed to02:57
ryu0feel lost without your GUIs? =p02:57
vsteve_the opposite02:57
vsteve_I'll compile things from source all day...but you'd have to pay me hourly to use the ubuntu interface02:58
vsteve_whatever the hell they're calling it this month02:58
ryu0cinnamon or kde is what i prefer these days.02:58
vsteve_sometimes I let my hair down with icewm :p02:58
ryu0there's a feature KDE has i suspect no other DE does...02:59
vsteve_what's that?02:59
ryu0the ability to at least partially restore your last session's programs (X11)02:59
vsteve_oh...that's neat02:59
ryu0it works without me having to configure anything.02:59
vsteve_also nice03:00
ryu0KDE is heavy but i frankly don't care.03:00
ryu0storage is plentiful and unused RAM is wasted anyway.03:00
vsteve_I work in high performance computing, so icewm is about as heavy as I go03:00
ryu0heh. i'm just a programmer, and a bit of jack of all trades elsewhere.03:01
vsteve_I spent the first 25 years of my life playing a combination of tetris, doom or quake, now I support Crays03:02
vsteve_that about sums up what I do03:02
ryu0the super computer?03:02
vsteve_an XC-40 and a slew of XC-30s03:02
vsteve_that is correct03:02
ryu0ancient or relatively new?03:03
vsteve_I think our oldest is like...two years?03:03
vsteve_I mean...we have a Cray 2 in the back for giggles03:03
vsteve_that's from 8603:03
ryu0cause those super computers from what i've read go obsolete rather fast.03:03
vsteve_they sure do, but...that's the silly thing about the benchmarks03:03
vsteve_no one....well, hardly no one, uses the whole thing at once03:04
vsteve_so that system-wide benchmark is just about meaningless03:04
ryu0so you have a timesharing system or what?03:04
vsteve_they all are pretty much, comprised of hundreds of thousands of nodes03:04
ryu0i assume it's highly specialized programs for heavy computations.03:05
vsteve_it should be03:05
vsteve_a handful are03:05
ryu0i'd expect them to be, to get the most for your bought time.03:05
vsteve_most of our users want to run wild and install python and java and all this other junk03:05
ryu0almost surprised they don't just use fortran.03:06
vsteve_we STRONGLY encourage the use of fortran and C03:06
vsteve_and generally mock people doing things that are ovbiously wasteful03:06
ryu0what cpu architecture?03:06
vsteve_it's a pile of xeons03:06
ryu0so x86 cluster.03:07
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ryu0some use powerpc or w/e.03:07
vsteve_I wish03:07
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vsteve_our researchers aren't interested in power03:07
ryu0i suspect IBM may be the only real server vendor for PowerPC left.03:07
vsteve_ehh, there's Tyan03:07
vsteve_but I don't know how seriously they're taking that role03:08
ryu0what about ARM? i doubt they'd be of much interest. they never cared about performance.03:08
ryu0almost makes me wonder if your cluster also supports opencl.03:08
vsteve_part of it does03:09
vsteve_but with nvidia chips, m2070s I think03:09
vsteve_they're showing their age03:09
ryu0that's even better if your work can be described there.03:09
ryu0these are not computers for your average programmer.03:09
ryu0they're for scientists, mathematicians, and others who need to run expensive computations.03:10
ryu0at least that's how i'd think of it.03:10
vsteve_they are, and they should be03:10
vsteve_but we have people who treat them like workstations03:10
vsteve_run all kinds of goofy shit on there, like...fuckin' matlab03:10
vsteve_and we tell them...go buy a workstation, you'll have your own'll work better03:11
vsteve_but OHHH no, they need it to run on the cluster...where it's not supported03:11
ryu0does C++ fit into your ecosystem?03:12
ryu0i would think it's another option.03:12
vsteve_it is03:12
vsteve_and we generally ask users to work in that03:12
ryu0frankly i'd only think you want to support python or so if the main computations were already offloaded to one of those languages.03:13
vsteve_and....usually...that's what they claim they're doing03:13
ryu0yet, profiling proves otherwise. X)03:13
ryu0if most of the time isn't spent in the C/C++/Fortran code, then you're not doing that.03:14
vsteve_well I tell em we've got perl and bash, they can make it work03:14
vsteve_but they come to us knowing only some python03:14
vsteve_so...that goes out the window03:14
vsteve_I do have a handful of badass users though03:15
vsteve_this one dude wrote something in C that runs entirely out of cache03:15
vsteve_well a simulator03:16
vsteve_for really....really freakishly small simulations03:16
vsteve_and it *screamed*03:16
vsteve_that may actually be our best performing application03:16
vsteve_because each node has something insane like..80MB of cache03:17
ryu0vsteve_: but in the end, does it matter to your company if they run inefficient code? it means more $$$ if they waste their own money on foolishness. =p03:18
vsteve_ehhhh...I can't go into details but all I can say is...if money were a factor, things would be REAL different03:18
ryu0it would fix this problem quickly if they were billed based on how much cpu time their processes consume.03:19
ryu0to some extent.03:19
vsteve_yes, yes it would03:19
vsteve_but with that, I need sleep03:19
vsteve_I can only replace it with coffee for so long03:19
abenzI hear coffee is bad03:19
WorksterACTION sips on coffee03:19
abenzACTION sips his freshly brewed coffee 03:19
abenzOUCH you beat me Workster03:20
Worksternah coffee is great just look at me :P03:20
vsteve_I'd suck coffee up through my eyeballs given half a chance03:20
vsteve_ANYWAY, time for bed03:20
vsteve_I'll check in tomorrow once I'm done breaking sshd again :P03:20
abenznighty night buddy03:20
vsteve_peace out ya'll03:20
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frinnst2holy backlog batman!09:12
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Romsterfor once it wasn't me :D09:38
Romsterfrinnst is multiplying09:38
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.2]: mpg123: update to 1.23.810:36
frinnsti need to irc from work!10:48
frinnst(home for lunch now)10:48
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korihey #crux14:28
korip. excited for 3.314:32
koriits been a while since ive used crux14:32
onoderathere adding some security shit14:45
onoderasignatures for repos mainly14:45
onoderaerm what more, newer base utils ofc14:45
onoderaremoving the useless packager field14:45
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onoderateK_: Can you please update vala to 0.32.1 and move the man to /usr/share?19:43
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vsteveI managed to get sshd working as a service, exactly as simply as jaeger made it seem, however..the service doesn't actually seem to be accepting clients22:25
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vstevesshd is clearly running, and it's using a config I used before when it worked22:26
vsteveyet I get connection refused to the system internally or externally22:26
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vstevei've generated keys...the service is running...the sshd_config looks I forgetting something client side?22:36
][_R_][ss -lntp | cat22:42
][_R_][That shows sshd running?22:42
][_R_][Are you trying to ssh to root?22:43
vsteveI am, and your command incidently does not show it running...22:43
vsteveps -ef shows it though..22:43
][_R_][That lists what TCP ports are being listened on.22:43
vsteveor it did a minute ago22:43
][_R_][Check /var/log/!22:44
vstevehuh I don't even see an sshd log22:45
][_R_][Because there isn't one specifically for it22:46
][_R_][/var/log/messages <-- that's the catch-all22:46
][_R_][/var/log/auth is the other one to watch22:47
vsteveweird, so when I grep for sshd in messages, I got four identical messages22:48
vsteve"No process in pidfile '/var/run/' found running; none killed.22:48
][_R_][Even in auth?22:49
vsteveoh even weirder22:50
vstevea few errors, it seems it can't bind to the right port on the ip address22:50
vsteveit tries a few times and dies22:50's also doing something wrong22:51
vsteveit's trying to bind that port to an ip it doesn't have22:51
vstevethat's weird, I have no idea where it's getting that other ip from, but that was it's ip before I reinstalled from scratch22:52
][_R_][Any ListenAddress entries in sshd_config uncommented?22:52
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][_R_][Did you wipe the logs too?22:52
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vsteveI wiped the whole filesystem and reinstalled fresh22:52
vstevethe only file I've moved back so far is sshd_config22:53
vstevethe listenaddress I have in there is the IP of the server22:53
vsteveand that's the only ip in there22:53
][_R_][Try uncommenting that out22:54
][_R_][Then reboot sshd22:54
vstevethe whole listenaddress line?22:55
][_R_][You don't need them22:55
vsteveI sure seemed to before...but alright22:55
][_R_][Unless you want to specifically limit what IPs sshd will listen to22:55
vstevehuh, ok well now i'm perplexed22:56
][_R_][In fact, you shouldn't have to edit sshd_config at all, unless you're doing something non-standard.22:56
vstevethis worked before the way I had the only way to get it to work is to comment out that line22:56
vstevebecause I tried it at defaults first, months ago when I started messing with sshd and I got nowhere fast22:57
vsteveI finally put my server's IP in there, and it worked fine for like...a  month..across updates, across reboots22:57
vstevenow it's working as expected22:58
vstevewell..not expected, now it's working22:58
vsteveso thanks for that23:01
vstevenow the trick will be x11 forwarding which is half working23:09
vsteveit seems again I have all the pieces, but..there's still something missing23:10
vsteveI can ssh in with -Y and that goes without error...hit my text console, do startx...and x starts right up on the server, but on my remote machine all I see is x11 console output23:11
vsteveI found this:
vstevei'm not using ubuntu anywhere, but I figured it should be close enough....I have all the things mentioned there but still i'm not getting it23:16
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][_R_][You have to do something with xauth... or disable xauth because it isn't documented anywhere23:48
vsteve...oh boy23:57
vsteveon the client side or server side?23:57
][_R_][Can't recall23:58
][_R_][Probably both23:58

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