IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2016-09-29

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vstevedoes anyone know what provides xeyes?  I can't find it in any of the portsdbs01:00
vsteveor glxgears for that matter01:00
abenzglxgears: mesa-demos01:00
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abenzyou can find what you need using:01:01
abenzprt-get fsearch <binary name>01:01
vsteveahh, helpful01:02
vstevethank you01:02
vsteveincidently xeyes still returns no results :(01:03
vsteveI need more silly little 2d framebuffery xwindow apps01:14
vstevexeyes would have been ideal...but that's apparently not in the cards01:14
abenzwhat is the glxgears score on your nano?01:20
abenzdisable sync or else it'll cap at 60fps01:20
abenzvblank_mode=0 glxgears01:20
vsteveI would love to find out, but I'm not quite there yet01:20
vsteveI'm enjoying having at least my text terminal and twm working01:20
vstevesome dude at AMD suggested in a round-about way that I use the AMDGPU-PRO driver stack instead of catalyst or amdgpu01:22
vsteveI don't really know what to believe or how to proceed beyond what I've done in the past01:22
vstevethey said amdgpu-pro targets the 4.4 kernel, so I could roll back to that and do...whatever I'd have to do in the kernel that makes it happy01:23
abenzthats a binary driver isnt it01:23
abenza hybrid of some sorts01:24
abenzit interacts with amdgpu driver01:24
vsteveI thought i read that it can operate without the amdgpu driver01:24
abenzso whats the current state?01:25
abenzyou have framebuffer going ?01:25
vsteveof their driver?01:25
vsteveoh yeah, framebuffer is alive and well01:25
vstevedid I tell you I tested the nano in my gaming rig?01:25
abenzyou did01:25
abenzso once you try launch X it goes blank?01:25
vstevewell previously it had been once the kernel gets past just the REALLY early stuff the screen would go black01:26
vsteveso I couldn't even get to console with it01:26
vstevenow I can get to console just fine and all I did so far was reinstall from scratch01:26
abenzgotta love the classic format01:27
abenzsomething is not wor....wipe install01:27
vsteveI have *no* idea what I did to break it01:27
vsteveI could have spent weeks or months going through every config file to see what stupid thing I did01:27 thanks01:27
abenzheh, hey I wasn't complaining. I do that too01:28
vsteveoh I know01:28
abenzwe have a finite amount of time on earch01:28
abenzand so now when you start X it goes blank as it did?01:28
vstevewell now when I start X it fires up in sadness no drivers generic framebuffer mode01:29
abenzeverything is gigantic in screen?01:29
vsteveit's like....1024-x768 or something01:29
vstevebut yeah, when it comes to installing amdgpu-pro, I'm not sure what to do01:31
vstevei've been hoping I could pry a direct and complete response from AMD01:31
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jaegerspeaking of GPUs, bought a GTX 1080 yesterday. That should be fun01:46
vstevehot diggity01:48
vsteveI'm a little horrified at how rapidly gpu tech is taking off these days01:50
vsteveit's gotten bananas01:50
vstevefiji and pascal are both absolutely superfluous01:51
vsteveand then there are people out there doing quad sli01:51
jaegerhow so?01:51
vsteveoh I just mean...thinking back to the voodoo days01:51
vstevewhat we have now is just nuts01:52
jaegernuts in a good way. Not like you could drive a 4k display for shit with a voodoo01:52
vsteveI remember being psyched that I could reliably get 60fps in quake 201:52
vsteveoh ofcourse, the need simply didn't exist back then01:52
vstevethe supporting tech really didn't, anyway01:53
jaegerI remember when the voodoo came out, and glquake... the first iterations were really buggy and bad, but still completely awesome01:54
vsteveoh yes01:55
vsteveI remember the bilinear filtering in hardware01:55
vsteveand the advent of dynamic colored lighting01:55
vsteveand's perfectly common to have 8 pixel shaders for each pixel on a 4k display01:56
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vsteveit's just funny to me.  I'll hold something like the r9 nano and marvel at its complexity and capability, meanwhile someone else out there is going "ehh, I'll be needing 3 more of these"01:56
abenz_you gents are nostalgic oldtimers :)01:57
jaegerACTION creaks01:57
abenz_vsteve: I'm considering buying a nano, even though the RX480 is clearly better01:58
abenz_the small size is nice01:58
vsteveI'm not super read-up on the rx480, but I gather it doesn't run on HBM01:59
jaegerI believe the nano is a bit more powerful01:59
vsteveI think there may be fringe cases where each may out perform the other01:59
jaegerThe 480 is not HBM, correct01:59
vsteveonly because HBM is so...bonkers01:59
jaegerThe nano tends to benchmark 14-15% faster if I remember right, but it's been a while since I read up on them02:00
vstevethere are some applications where nothing will top a wider memory bus, where the fiji chips will mop the floor with anything02:00
jaegerObviously not every single bench is the same but that was in general02:00
jaeger(in the context of gaming)02:00
vsteveI would think that graphical tasks that aren't memory intensive *could* run better on a rx480, but I'm not sure02:00
vstevethough I can't think of any situations where that'd be the case...02:01
vsteveI just love/respect amd a lot for doing something as reckless as fiji02:03
vstevethe whole interposer thing is easily one of the most insane engineering tricks I've seen on a consumer product in decades02:03
abenz_too bad their bulldozer venture didnt go as well, respect for trying something original though02:04
vstevethat's how I feel about it02:04
abenz_yours is ASUS isn't it?02:04
vsteveit is02:04
abenz_the nano I mean02:04
vstevemy motherboard is too02:04
vstevebut yeah02:04
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.2]: go: updated to version 1.7.102:05
abenz_I usually buy  gigabyte02:05
vstevesome of my best/longest living motherboards have been either asus or msi02:05
abenz_I think they are all pretty much the same though (all reference)02:05
vsteveI have one gigabyte product that discouraged me from buying other gigabyte products02:05
vstevethere was some fault in it where after the system had been soft rebooted x number of times, it could no longer be soft rebooted02:06
jaegergigabyte has gotten some bad press in recent years for using cheap caps that blow out, but I can't say I've personally experienced that02:06
vsteveoh I didn't even know about the bad caps02:06
vstevebut that's not great02:06
abenz_I usually buy their boards because of comprehensive bios options, like being able to choose which PCIE slot should be initialized for first display etc02:07
jaegerSupposedly just in their lower end lines. As I understand it the higher end stuff was ok02:07
abenz_this kind of control I have not seen in any other board02:07
jaegerlike the UD line02:07
abenz_yea the UD lines use jap solid caps02:07
jaegerI'm a big fan of asrock motherboards these days, great pricing and features02:08
vsteveI hear they've come a long way02:08
jaegerthough I have an asus in my mini-itx box02:08
vsteve50 bucks02:08
vstevemy gaming rig actually has an asrock motherboard02:08
jaegerwell, they're both gaming rigs, technically :P the "main" one is asrock02:08
vstevesmall world02:09
jaegerz170 extreme4+02:09
vsteveI idea what mine is02:09
vsteveit has 3 pcie slots which foregoes a 32-bit pci slot02:09
vsteveso I could use my wifi card, 970, and pcie ssd02:10
jaegerI'm only using one of them but similar situation02:12
abenz_so if one wants to go with amd GPUs sapphire is the go to brand?02:12
vsteveI go to asus02:12
vsteveor msi, traditionally02:13
joacimabout the voodoo02:13
vstevethough I hear good things about sapphire and amd02:13
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joacimthe lower end voodoo3 2000 performs about as well as a much more expensive voodoo2 SLI setup from a year before02:14
joacimI don't think you see that kind of progress anymore02:14
abenz__water cooling02:14
joacimlike a 150 dollar gpu performing as well as a gtx 980 or 980 ti02:14
vstevethat watercooling is quite nice02:14
vsteveand interesting point joacim02:14
vstevethough I think it was easier to make advancements back then, as there were so many more to be made02:15
jaegerThat gap has grown a lot, though, as technology improves02:15
jaegera $150 card right now doesn't exist that can compete with a 980Ti02:15
vstevewhile we're doing rigpics02:16
joacimthat's all the dust that gathered in my case during the past couple of years02:16
vstevethough in this shot the r9 nano was in another machine for testing02:16
joacimhad that case for two years, never dusted =)02:16
jaegerset up positive pressure and you won't have to worry as much about dust :)02:17
jaegerWhat case is that? Pretty small, looks like02:17
joacimi just blow off the filter once in a while02:17
vstevemine was/is a cooler master elite 36002:17
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vsteveand I renovated the crap out of it with a dremel02:17
jaegerI was eying the CM elite 110 a couple days ago, it would be interesting02:18
joacimreally would like an LGA2011 setup now02:18
vsteveI have a dual 2011 rig I'm working on02:20
vstevetwo xeon 2670s, 64gb ram02:21
jaeger <-- added a couple pics of the mITX box for grins02:21
vstevequad pcie ssd, quad nvidia tesla02:21
jaegerwill probably move the 980Ti from the first pic into that box02:21
vstevewow, nice watercooling work02:22
vsteveI'm scared to death I'd fuck something like that up02:22
jaegerthanks, appreciate it. It's fairly simple but I like simple02:22
vsteveI like my AIO well enough02:22
jaegerand I like the sorta organic look of soft tubing more than hard tubing, though I admit there are some really sexy hard tubing rigs out there02:22
jaegerwatercooling is far easier than it used to be. The last time I did it was over 10 years ago, was a pain with the barbed fittings and whatnot02:23
jaegerThese two rigs are the first since then, they were pretty easy02:23
jaegerthough figuring out the right parts to put in the mITX box was a little tough02:23
jaegerI may end up in the future replacing the pump/res combo in that box with a pump hidden in the bottom and a horizontal res in the place where the pump is now. I think that would look nice.02:24
joacimeasy to transport a watercooled setup?02:24
jaegerdo you mean transport the entire thing? Or transport the cooling to another machine? or something else?02:24
joacimthe entire thing02:25
jaegerNo problem at all02:25
joacimif i have to think about spillage or whatever02:25
jaegerIt's a closed loop. If there's spillage it's assembled wrong.02:25
vstevefor the curious:
abenzjoacim: is that a sound card in your box?02:26
abenzI thought those were scams02:26
joacimdepends on what you want02:26
abenzdo you hear any difference between it and built in ?02:26
joacimthere are some great ones with hardware accelerated 3d positional audio02:26
joacimlike the old vortex and eax cards =)02:27
jaegerSound cards are another bit of tech where the gap has gotten smaller02:27
abenzor perhaps you got it for extra input/output ports?02:27
joacimonboard was noisy02:27
jaegeronboard aren't nearly as bad as they used to be, though there are occasionally good reasons to buy discrete ones02:27
abenzwhat card is it?02:27
joacimaddon card was not noisy02:27
joacimi forget. some cheap audigy02:27
joacimaudigy zx?02:27
abenzcreative then?02:27
abenzgood linux support?02:27
joacimdont know =)02:27
joacimthat computer only runs windows for games02:28
abenzI see02:28
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joacimi have 2 computers i use every day, one laptop i use once in a while02:28
joacimand this old pentium III thing i have sitting under my desk02:28
vstevewhat's the pentium 3 for?02:29
jaegermaking sure the floor can't get away02:29
vsteveor a great source of ascii art pornography02:30
joacimfun little toy02:30
joacimgot a voodoo3 3500 and a vortex 2 card in it02:30
abenzI might get a plextor PCIE SSD bridge just for those lights vsteve02:30
joacimfun for unreal and such things02:30
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vstevethose plextor lights are funny, one is for 12v, one for 3.3v, and one for data02:31
Romstervsteve, nothign stops you from making a Pkgfile for xeyes02:31
Romster use as a example02:31
vsteveoh, well that's convenient02:31
vstevethank's romster02:31
abenzvsteve: do you boot from the plextor?02:32
vsteveI do02:32
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vsteveI boot /like a beast/ from the plextor02:32
abenzis your mobo uefi or classic bios?02:32
vstevemobo supports uefi, but I don't know how to get crux to play nice with it yet02:32
joacimwould like to try this case02:32
joacimmax addon card length is 310mm02:32
joacimmy graphics card is 307mm02:33
vstevethose are snazzy looking joacim02:33
abenzvsteve: I haven't played with PCIE ssds because I was under the impression I can't boot from it02:33
joacimnot sure if i can get it in there02:33
abenzI'm also running an amd bulldozer cpu02:33
vsteveabenz, you probably can02:33
jaegerdepends on your chipset and more importantly the motherboard manufacturer02:33
vsteveyou might see if anyone with your mobo has managed to do it first02:33
jaegerif it can support that, might need a bios update, etc.02:33
jaegerbut yeah, look it up and see02:33
abenzmine's 990FX02:33
abenzit doesn't mention anything about PCIE SSDs02:34
vstevewell, there are certainly 990fx boards that can pcie sdd boot02:34
jaegerthat reminds me a little of the ncase M102:34
vstevemine didn't either, I just blindly expected it to work and got lucky02:34
jaegerwhich is cool but hideously expensive02:34
abenzmines a BIOS board, no uefi at all02:34
vstevemy pcie ssd runs in full biod mode, hell I even use lilo02:34
abenzthe issue is some bios boards don't show the drive in boot options02:35
vstevealso the ncase M1 is incredible and I love it02:35
vsteveand yeah, sometimes you get the short stick on pcie ssd support02:35
abenzgonna have to try and see02:35
abenzwill get the plextor next time I have some extra cash02:35
vsteveshop around for it, pricing on that particular plextor makes NO sense02:36
vstevesome places have it for 800, other places have it for 200, others still...15002:36
abenz ?02:36
abenzhow much did you pay for yours?02:36
joacimncase m1 also has room for serial ports =)02:36
joacimin addition to double height graphics cards02:36
vstevemine was 100 on ebay, because I'm cheap and sneaky02:37
vstevealso, not three months ago newegg had a serious glitch where the performance/gaming model of the plextor ssds in the 256gb flavor had a severe pricing glitch where they were 100 dollars for about two days02:38
vsteveeverywhere else online they were like...400-50002:39
abenzI think you could upgrade the m.2 drive on it right?02:51
abenzeg a couple of years down the line when 2 TB drives are available, you could swap the m.2 ?02:51
vsteveyou can, but it violates the warranty02:53
vsteveso if you feel like sticking it to plextor, go nuts02:56
vsteveor letting your warrant lapse, then doing it, that's fine02:57
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.2]: harfbuzz-32: 1.3.1 -> 1.3.202:57
cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.2]: mpg123-32: 1.23.6 -> 1.23.802:57
vsteveanywho, now I sleeps02:57
vstevepeace out ya'll02:58
abenznighty night02:58
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frinnst4g ftw?13:57
frinnstPING ( 56(84) bytes of data.13:57
frinnst64 bytes from icmp_seq=1 ttl=245 time=1783 ms13:57
frinnst64 bytes from icmp_seq=2 ttl=245 time=1549 ms13:57
abenz_1783ms ?13:58
frinnstgranted, i am downloading something using ~40Mbit13:58
frinnstper sec13:58
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abenz__sign my connection keeps dropping14:00
frinnsthaha awesome, you timed out!?14:00
frinnstthats what you get for mocking my shitty 4g! muhahaha14:00
abenzI wasn't mocking it I was simply agreeing with your statement "4g ftw?"14:01
abenzFTTH ftw14:02
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abenzunfortunately many ISPs use VDSL for last mile14:02
abenzwhich sometimes ruins it14:02
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frinnstthey are rebuilding the network where I live so Im using a temporary complimentary 4g modem14:03
abenzdoes it have quota?14:03
abenzoh so your 1Gbps line is off now?14:03
frinnstwe had cat5 for the last couple of meters to each apartment. they are replacing that with fibre14:03
frinnsti only had 250/100. After the rebuild I should be able to get 1g/1g14:04
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frinnsti could only get 1g/100m before14:04
abenzso previously you had a cat5e cable you plug into your router and dial (PPPOE)? or static IP/DHCP ?14:05
frinnstno dial, dhcp14:05
frinnstfttb i guess14:05
abenzbut you had public IP right? now with the fiber setup you'll be receiving a modem no?14:05
frinnstyes, public ip14:06
frinnstdont think i'll get a modem. most ftth where i live are just a simple fiber converter14:06
abenzsomething like this?
abenznever seen ISPs use that..14:07
frinnstyeah, well they are often hidden behind a box14:07
frinnstbut Im just guessing. no info on this yet14:08
frinnstbut most houses in my town have ftth and its just a simple converter14:09
abenzwhat about wireless? if you're going all out grab a wireless AD box14:09
abenzsomething with QCA950014:09
abenznote though those 60Ghz devices have very poor propagation14:09
frinnstI dont want any crap from my isp. i'll handle my own firewall and lan thanyouverymuch14:09
abenzso you'll get huge speeds practically in the same room only14:09
frinnstI dont use wireless much at all. Just for my phone14:10
frinnstI have a very weak tp-link ap that pretty much only reaches my apartment. Its perfect :)14:10
frinnst[Lag: 7.49]14:14
abenztower too far14:14
abenzor misconfigured torrent client? ;)14:15
frinnstor just plain old shitty 4g14:16
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retardfrinnst: my isp sent me a box with everything in it, wifi included14:57
retardit was locked down14:57
retardall configuration had to be done through a web interface at the isp14:57
retardso i soldered JTAG headers on it, flashed it and put it into dumb bridge mode14:57
retardgood times14:58
frinnstvilken isp?15:01
abenzretard: flashed it with what?15:11
abenzwhat SoC?15:11
retardflashed it with standard commercial firmware15:11
retardessentially making it "store-bought"15:11
retardauth is handled by a linux box now, so i can't even access the web interface and check very easily15:13
retardit's entire ip stack is offline, it just bridges the atm connection to an ethernet port :X15:13
abenzyou set it to "bridge" mode?15:13
abenznow to get out of that mode you need to reset to factory15:14
abenzor is it something else you did to put the "ip stack offline" ?15:14
retardto get out of that mode i need to reset to factory, but it still won't get online since it has no idea about the authentication settings15:14
abenzwhat linux box is doing auth? crux?15:15
abenzgood times:
retardopenwrt right now15:16
retardi wonder if my isp will charge me for it if i send it back with wires hanging out15:16
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frinnstso, what remains?19:02
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frinnstah phew, its just the default for binaries19:03
frinnst.. for now19:03
frinnstthe bug title made me shit my pants19:04
onoderafrinnst: compile time option luckily19:04
joacimi just use the pcspeaker19:06
pseudonymousDoes anyone use a lvm2+xfs setup for snapshotting ? I'm very intrigued by the idea of being able to take full system snapshots somehow19:06
frinnstawesome, thunderbird crashes when built with gcc6 and wont compile with --enable-debug19:07
frinnstpseudonymous: no, I use btrfs19:07
frinnstromster is heavy into lvm2 iirc, but its the middle of the night for him right now19:08
onoderapseudonymous: I don't use lvm2, but I do use xfs, check out xfsdump and xfsrecover as well19:13
onoderaoh and in linux 4.8 xfs will gain a bunch of really cool stuff:
onoderatldr: it's the foundation for CoW, data duplication, etc. in xfs19:14
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pseudonymousoh that's intriguing. Somewhat lamenting the state of filesystems in linux with FreeBSD and their fancy ZFS. But at least Kent is working on BcacheFS, cautiously optimistic on that :)19:16
jaegeryou can use zfs in linux, too19:16
onoderahammer2 has always intrigued me19:17
onoderafrom dragonflybsd19:17
pseudonymous@jaeger you can, but it's a little tacked on compared to FreeBSD, and likely won't be as tested19:19
frinnstlots of companies run it in production though19:19
frinnston linux19:19
jaegerI've been using it for years as my NAS and once or twice built a root install on it19:20
jaegerSo far I've had good luck19:20
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pedjagreat fucking job, Mozilla.19:40
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dlcusaGrab some buttered popcorn:
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dlcusaThose who have to support systemd boxen, you have my sympathy, but I fortunately do not share your pain.19:51
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pedjathis is..awesome.
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jaegerthat seems ridiculous. :P20:07
pseudonymousdlcusa saw that too. Between systemd, pulseaudio and a few other too-complex-for-fun pieces, I was almost leaving linux in favour of OSX.20:07
pseudonymousLuckily, Crux is just.. too friggin' awesome. I can't believe I'm rolling my own ports some 30 minutes into working with its package manager for the first time.. What other linux system offers such shallow learning curve :)20:08
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rugamajvim-clutch.... it's a terrific idea! I need it ASAP20:31
pedjapseudonymous: run prtverify on your ports from time to's pretty handy tool.20:34
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pseudonymousah, that *is* pretty neat20:38
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dlcusaLove comment 31807: Added this article to my list of "Why systemd is bad" articles; added the supporting commenters to my list of "people never to hire or recommend for responsible software engineering jobs".20:41
pedjaunfortunately, systemd is here to stay.until something else, sexier and shinier, comes along :)20:52
pedjaI really don't understand all the Xorg hate, though.20:53
pedjaon every article on wayland, there are comments like 'xorg, die, die, die'.wtf?20:54
pedjabut since wayland, as is, won't work with nvidia drivers, I am not that interested in it :)20:56
pedjathere are quite a few interesting talks from XDC2016 on the state of Linux desktop.20:57
pedjatl;dw?there is quite a lot work ahead to make it not suck.20:59
pedjaglvnd/mesa/nvidia/xorg are getting there. AMD?who knows.21:01
ryu0We are the systemd. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.21:03
pseudonymouswell wayland gives a few features like guaranteed lack of screen tearing and proper multi monitor DPI setup21:04
pedjaheh.atleast The Borg had a sexy queen.21:05
pedjateK_: would you mind updating gnupg?2.1.15 was released almost two months ago.21:07
pedjapseudonymous: I know that wayland is much needed, as some say, cleanup of xorg codebase.but the fact is that xorg *works*, so keeping it around until wayland fleshes out most of the bugs/becomes stable is a rational thing to do.21:12
pseudonymousSure but that's what's happening. There will have to be some transition at some point though, otherwise you'll never get those bugs fixed, never get proper intel/nvidia/amd support and so on21:14
pedjaso let early adopters use it (several major distros are planning to switch to it on next release), and when it's ready for the general public, retire xorg.21:16
pseudonymousthat's also exactly what's happening, and what's been happening, why do you think we've talked about wayland for years and years ? ;)21:17
pseudonymousBut it *is* time now, if no one is (forcibly) moved over, it won't be taken seriously and so driver issues won't be fixed and we won't get proper support from any of the DE's and WM's.. That's why Fedora etc is looking to see when it can reasonably throw its userbase at it, to drive the rest of the community forward. Unlike systemd, wayland is actually something that needs to happen because it's a gross simplification21:19
pedja'systemd is something that needs to happen because it replaces ancient and broken SySv init scripts' :)21:23
pseudonymousNot really the same, at all. Xorg is a huge and complex system, parts of which work very much against how we'd like to interact with hardware today. Other parts are complex because it offers a networked architecture.  -- i.e. it's the systemd of GUI. Wayland is about removing the network functionality, slimming down the interface between you and the (GFX) hardware etc. I.e. a simplification. I'm pretty sure you'll see Wayland having21:27
pseudonymous a smaller codebase too, though I haven't checked21:27
pedjaprobably, since it does not have as many features/support for some ancient systems :)21:33
pedjaqt5/gtk3 can use either, so.21:34
pedjawhen nvidia and mesa/intel work out a new driver model, transition will be much smoother/faster.21:36
pseudonymousis there any way to have a postinst section in a port? For issuing an update of the font caches or something21:37
pedjapost-install script21:38
pseudonymousi just place a post-install file in the ports dir ?21:39
pedjayes.and set 'runscripts yes' in prt-get.conf21:40
pedjaaltough you can enable running pre/post-install scripts per port, iirc.21:41
pseudonymousah, good to know, thanks :)21:41
pedja'man prt-get'for gory details :)21:42
pedjayou may also use fakeroot for build.i think there is a wiki page about it.21:43
pedjawhat's the fucking point of 'advanced git tutorial with Linus Torvalds', when the camera is showing him the all time, instead of  what he actually types?21:49
pseudonymousYou get to revel in the movement of his luscious cheekbones pronounce each..and...every...command21:50
pseudonymous(well, move as he pronounces them, more like... it's late..)21:51
pedjanope.he just says 'I do this <types incantation> , and it'l show, as you see here'.No, we fucking don't see.21:52
pedjaand he hates to make, waste of time :)21:53
pedjaI've heard that his 'no PC BS' attitude is common for Finns.21:54
pedjaif that's true...I want to live there.21:55
pedjabluez port in opt is oooold.22:32
pedjaportdb to the rescue! (thanks, jaeger)22:34
pedjabtw, bluez-5.42 builds  fine against libical-2.0.0.but will it run remains a mystery for now.22:36
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