IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2016-11-26

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john_cephalopoda/usr/ports/contrib/lmms -> Download link seems broken.01:39
Romsteri have yet to fix up my gitolite setup, i should get that done today on my new home server01:40
Romsteruse the mirror john_cephalopoda01:41
john_cephalopodaThanks, Romster. It's no big problem when it comes later, just sorting out the sysup errors and posting here what I find while I am at it :)01:41
Romsteri am pretty much rebuilding my home server and redoing my entire home network01:43
Romsterand at some point i'll clean up all my broken ports.01:43
Romsterfor future reference for crux 3.3 my signify public key
Romsterwhich i'll post every were so it is verifiable. and i'll gpg sign it soon too.01:48
Romstershould be enough evidence it is mine for the time being.01:51
dlcusajohn_cephalopoda, Sitri, wpa_supplicant website says Copyright (c) 2003-2016, Jouni Malinen <> and contributors.02:01
john_cephalopodadlcusa: We were talking about netctl, which is written by some other guy.02:02
john_cephalopodadlcusa: I think Sitri thought it was a Poettering software because of the "ctl" postfix, but it is actually a project by the arch devs.02:03
dlcusajohn_cephalopoda, thanks for the clarification.02:05
RomsterACTION makes some ctl programs that says it's not affiliate with systemd in any shape or form :D02:05
Romstersomeone should make a game where you go around killing pid1 systemd02:08
Sitridlcusa: <Sitri> Depends on systemd <Sitri> As far as I care same taint.02:12
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john_cephalopodaRomster: I'll rename /etc/rc.d into /etc/notsystem.d02:16
Romsterthat would require a few changes02:16
john_cephalopodaOh, just a few02:17
john_cephalopodaHmm, nice, rc.d is extremely KISS.02:18
john_cephalopoda. o O ( How can ArchLinux call itself KISS when it uses systemd? )02:18
Romsterall of crux is KISS02:18
Romsterbuggered if i know02:19
john_cephalopodaHeh, I got things compiling in two terminals and I have no clue what the hell is compiling there :D02:21
john_cephalopodaOh, one of them is wine.02:21
SitriBecause only thefounding dev knew what it meant02:22
SitriThe current guys haven't a clue, and have proventhat repeatedly02:22
john_cephalopodaAt least their wiki is good.02:23
SitriPacman was pretty nice for a while02:24
Romsterwait until you have 10 docker containers open compiling john_cephalopoda02:24
john_cephalopodaRomster: I never used docker :D02:25
SitriActually, them fucking pacman up was the first thing I noticed02:25
john_cephalopodaI think that having containers doesn't actually solve as many problems as people claim it does.02:25
Romsterwell it equates to 10 termianls open compiling02:25
john_cephalopodaSitri: What went wrong in Pacman?02:25
Romsterit provides isolationf or a clean core ports tree for testing builds.02:25
john_cephalopodaRomster: True, that's quite useful.02:26
SitriWhy yes. Let's hard depend on OpenSSL for a 15% speed up on MD5sum02:26
Romsterthat is my main use case02:26
john_cephalopodaWho does even use MD5sum today?02:26
SitriAbsolutely noway a switch from 0.9.x to 1.0.0 could break that and completely break a system.02:26
Romsteroh so that breaks users that have libressl?02:27
SitriThen later on, pacman 4.x came and broke -r02:27
SitriWhich AIUI they still haven't fixed02:27
Romsterthe heck02:27
SitriACTION used -r pretty heavily for installing to disk from an existing system02:28
john_cephalopodaI'm in the mood to build useful software.02:30
SitriFinal straw for me with Arch though was the glibc-kernel interdependancy issue which made it impossible to upgrade either, and broke their install disks for a full year...02:30
Romsterjesus christ02:30
john_cephalopodaSitri: They also once updated the nvidia driver before the kernel, so I sat there half a day without X.02:31
Romsterif something does break in crux you can work around it easily02:32
Romsterbut we try hard to not do stupid mistakes like that02:32
SitriACTION has been meaning to port pacman to CRUX'02:32
SitriHelps that you're not a binary distro02:32
john_cephalopodaHeh, considering that Arch took inspiration from CRUX...02:32
Romsteractually that might already be done in portsdb02:32
SitriThat kernel-glibc thing wouldn't be an issue they let yout compile...02:32
Romsteralso i did see somewhere a PKGBUILD to Pkgfile converter that did /most/ of the work.02:33
Romsteri jsut make my own Pkgfiles02:33
SitriOh yeah02:34
SitriI had a number of custom packages when I ran Arch02:34
Romsterwe don't have as many ports as arch, probably the only downside02:34
Romsterwriting Pkgfiles is easy02:34
Romsterone of the benefits of crux02:34
SitriCompared to the utter clusterfuck that is whatever Debian does...02:34
Romsterthey make there own Makefiles and patches02:35
SitriRPM looked similar, but I have never done that.02:35
Romsterbeen though that02:35
Romsterrpm just used a spec file afaik02:35
SitriDebian custom packages were a 16 step process last I checked02:35
Romsterbeen ages since i looked at rpm02:35
SitriEveryone else seems to have 2-3 steps.02:35
john_cephalopodaAlso I remember gentoo being quite complicated.02:35
Romsterit still is02:36
Romsterbut then gentoo is pretty big and it's use flags02:36
john_cephalopodaHeh, CRUX is just fakeroot pkgmk -d and upload everything. Done.02:36
Romsterwe try to keep sane defaults on what we bundle into each port02:37
Romstersometimes i get calledout for bloating up packages a bit too much with dependencies, but i just want stuff to work (tm) out of the box.02:37
Romsterand space is cheap02:38
SitriFor desktop stuff, extra dependencies is fine02:39
SitriFor server stuff, no.02:39
Romsteroh server stuff i keep it to the minimal set02:40
Romsterbut most of my stuff is for desktop02:40
john_cephalopodaThere's the #Nice to have: thing in Pkgbuilds.02:42
Romsterprt-get don't use that it's just a reference for knowing what else it can take advantage of02:43
Romsteri'll bbl02:43
john_cephalopodaI think pkgmk doesn't support that yet. Would be cool to do "prt-get install firefox --nth" and get all the stuff automatically.02:43
john_cephalopoda*pkgmk -> prt-get02:43
Romsteri have thought about that02:44
Romsteri might provide a patch for something like that.02:44
john_cephalopodaI think there are two different standards for that. #Nice to have and #Optional iirc.02:47
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cruxbot[xorg.git/3.2]: libinput: update to 1.5.212:04
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cruxbot[compat-32.git/3.2]: nspr-32: 4.13 -> 4.13.112:26
Romsterjohn_cephalopoda and everyone else, romster is now in sync on crux.ster.zone12:28
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Anon868I got CRUX installed thanks to @jaeger's 32-bit iso on crux.ninja15:45
jaegergood deal15:47
Anon868Is there a github page for that?15:47
Anon868The kernel used in that iso is vulnerable to dirtyCOW im pretty sure15:47
jaegerthere isn't currently. You can use whichever kernel you like, though15:49
Anon868Yeah i just used the mainline one 4.8.1015:49
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john_cephalopodaI am currently using 4.9-rc2. If I recall correctly, that was the release after dirtyCOW was fixed.15:57
Anon868They went back and fixed previous versions15:57
john_cephalopodaYeah, I just updated immediately after it was out since it was the first release.15:58
Anon868At least im pretty sure that's how it works15:58
Anon868I imagine the mainline would be the top priority15:58
john_cephalopodaYeah, I'm sure they also fixed it in
john_cephalopodaI just grabbed the most recent release, which was 4.9-rc2 at that time.16:00
Anon868It works pretty good on my little netbook16:00
Anon868Any reason you picked the newest?16:00
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john_cephalopodaAnon868: I just wanted to have the fix for dirtyCOW as fast as possible, and the release date of 4.9-rc2 was right after the bug was fixed.16:53
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john_cephalopodaDoes virtualbox (contrib) fail to compile for anybody else?20:02
teK__xerces-c has a 40420:22
teK__but it's on our mirrors :]20:23
teK__it's outdated (.4 vs. 10)20:24
teK__do you have your kernel sources in /usr/src/linux?20:25
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teK__john_cephalopoda: works for me20:39
teK__-- Packages installed20:39
teK__virtualbox [pre: ok] [post: ok]20:39
john_cephalopodaI got my sources in /usr/src/linux, yeah.20:39
teK__does it fail while building the kernel modules?20:40
teK__I used a an ancient VM with 4.5.7 to build20:40
teK__try bumping to 5.1.10 if it fails at the module stage20:40
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cruxbot[opt.git/3.2]: clang: dont use usr/libexec21:17
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john_cephalopodaIt would be interesting to list all installed ports from one repo.23:41
teK__the source repo is not recrded in the package database23:41
teK__i.e. there are situations where you cannot determine the repo the port came from23:42
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john_cephalopodateK__: Right, that would be a problem when several repos contain the same package.23:45
teK__proper (i.e. consistent and integrated) management of repos is not our strong suite in pkgutils/prt-get23:46
john_cephalopoda(Though one could list all possible repos)23:46
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teK__provided none of them added a "duplicate" port after the installation or you did not reorder repo order etc.23:46
john_cephalopodaRepos are pretty secondary imo. It usually doesn't matter where the package comes from.23:47
teK__and still you have no easy way to add a single port with a single command23:47
teK__there is mpup, yes..23:47
teK__but it's "3rd" party and you have to fiddle with it manually23:47
teK__and you want to use portdbc to find those ports/repos the official ones are missing23:48
teK__often, I run httpup/rsync manually for a port and later on delete the port directory, leaving a "stray" port on my system23:48
john_cephalopodaI think there could be a way around that though.23:49
teK__I don't know if I reflect the typical crux user in that case. I oftern try to install cool $pkg X which depends on a whole lot of shit from gnome, kde or another behemoth23:49
teK__so I end up pulling in deps individually to get things going23:50
teK__yeah, sure. Integrate mpup, portdbc and extend the package db on disk to include the repo23:50
john_cephalopodaWell, there could be a feature added, where you can just choose a package from an extra repo, which will be installed and kept in sync, with all packages that it needsx23:51
teK__this would fit best into mpup23:51
teK__but still, our pkg-related toolset is scattered enough as it is right now23:52
john_cephalopodaI think a repo focussed on gnome and one on kde stuff, both well-maintained, would be nice to have23:54
john_cephalopodaEspecially the KDE stuff. The current KDE one is quite outdated in some parts.23:54
teK__yes, but it is a ton of work and I don't know if users will adopt it. Preference seems to be a bit spartanic around here.23:54
teK__I am fluxbox user myself :-)23:54
john_cephalopodaI use i3wm :D23:55
teK__we lack the man power and also the intention to accelerate in our marketing department :]23:55
teK__"the OTHER distro without systemd" will have to do for now *g*23:55
john_cephalopodaMore users mostly means more pressure and annoying requests ;)23:55
john_cephalopoda"You need systemd, everybody has it!"23:56
teK__I think we're pretty good in brushing off bullshit from (new) users :D23:56
john_cephalopodaRight, source-based is pretty much a guarantee for a user base of people who know their system.23:57
teK__that, too. But new users also often recommend improvement X that was discussed quite some times before23:57
teK__that's the 'get adopted' part in our Maintainer-application guideline23:57
john_cephalopodaI should make an own repo with music-related things. Ardour, carla, qjackctl and all the tools.23:58
teK__sure, go ahead. Drop me a line (tek@) once you have it set up23:58
john_cephalopodaWill take a bit, I'll have to collect the tools, build them and try to get things work. Still have issues with jackd quite often23:59

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