IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2017-01-17

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brian|lfsfound everything but zfs stuff00:24
brian|lfswould of been nice to know wher zfs was under filessytems have a headacke gave up00:24
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brian|lfsjaeger, where did you upload the chromium package you compikled too00:25
jaegerI haven't yet; the build container is minimal so it needs to install all the deps first00:27
jaegerincluding xorg, llvm,e tc.00:27
jaegerit's currently on llvm00:27
jaegerzfs isn't in the kernel by default and not really required for docker anyway00:28
brian|lfskind of guessed that going to reboot run my script again and see if I have mostly green now00:30
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brian|lfssuch a long reboot00:33
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brian|lfswow forgot to install modules had a kernel panic01:01
brian|lfslol01:01
jaegeroops01:02
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brian|lfsdo I need aufs?01:08
ryu0brian|lfs: only if you have a special use in mind for it.01:10
jaegergenerally, no01:10
brian|lfsok don't know what it is01:10
brian|lfsand don't see it01:10
ryu0mostly for live cds.01:10
brian|lfshow do I make a docker for testing then I should be good01:11
jaegerbrian|lfs: http://irclogs.shortcircuit.net.au/%23crux/2016-12-29.log.html#t04:09:48 <-- try something like that01:15
jaeger$ROOTFS is a temp location for creating a root filesystem, /mnt/loop is where the ISO is mounted01:16
brian|lfsthanks looking01:23
brian|lfsso create /mnt/loop to mount my iso outside the docker?01:26
jaegerThat can be mounted wherever you like, it's only temporary01:27
jaegerbut yes, outside docker01:27
jaegeryou're creating a basic crux install in a temporary directory and turning that into a docker image01:28
jaegerthen you can run containers from that image01:28
brian|lfsahh ok01:28
brian|lfsI"m getting a bunch of pkgadd: only root can install/upgrade packages01:35
brian|lfscan I do this as a normal user01:36
marakufakeroot maybe brian|lfs?01:38
marakualso, just wondering, why isn't fakeroot used by default?01:39
marakuwouldn't it be safer to build packages using it01:39
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brian|lfsok cool I'm in my docker01:45
brian|lfsso I would just have to make a pkgmk user and all then update01:46
vsteveif I boot from one device (say some sata drive) and chroot to a cloned system install on a pcie ssd, will the device the 'jail' is running on be the only running device in the system01:48
brian|lfsso I"m lost where does docker save the image I made I know it saved it just not sure where01:48
vstevein other words, could I possibly even unmount the sata drive after I chroot?01:48
marakucan't boot from your pcie ssd vsteve?01:51
marakuwhat your describing sounds kind of like an initramfs01:51
vstevelazy initramfs, yeah01:54
vstevejaeger suggest better-initramfs which i havn't had a chance to look into yet, and I want a fail-safe or a plan B01:54
vstevesuggested*01:54
vsteveif chroot works the way I think it does...it may be sufficient on its own01:54
vsteveand unfortunately, I can't boot from the ssd because I'm dumb and I bought an NVMe drive for a 4 year old system01:56
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marakui tried out making my own initramfs a while back from this http://jootamam.net/howto-initramfs-image.htm02:07
marakuit was alright, but i switched to better-initramfs because i got lazy02:07
marakuif i remember correctly, jaeger also made his own initramfs before02:08
vstevethis lazy you speak of appeals to me02:08
marakuhehe02:09
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marakubuilding your initramfs is pretty fun tho02:09
marakuand customizability is nice02:09
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brian|lfsok so I closed my docker and reopened and everything was lost02:17
brian|lfsthat I changed02:17
brian|lfsdoes --privledged get around that02:18
jaegerwhen a container stops it's still left around, just not running02:24
jaegerdocker ps -a02:24
jaegeryou can restart it if needed02:24
jaegerin general, though, containers aren't really intended to keep their state02:26
jaegerIf you want to save changes to another image, though, check out docker commit02:27
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jaegervsteve: sounds like you want pivot_root rather than chroot02:32
jaegerwhich an initramfs would likely do for you02:32
jaegermaraku, vsteve: I haven't use better-initramfs myself, just heard it's a good option. The initramfs I made was rather simple and doesn't have a lot of features. It's similar to but simpler than the one the ISO uses, which I also made02:33
jaegerIf you want to see how the ISO version does things, look at https://crux.nu/gitweb/?p=system/iso.git;a=blob;f=initramfs/init;h=ab0f9e2d5e3f62fb820e022efe6c4e486cad0d53;hb=HEAD02:34
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brian|lfscommit seems to do the trick jaeger02:35
jaegerNote that 'docker run' starts a completely new container from the image specified02:35
jaegerso if you do something like 'docker run -it crux:3.2 /bin/bash' twice you have 2 different containers running02:36
jaegereven though they both came from the crux:3.2 image02:36
brian|lfsunderstood so if you need to reboot  you better commit your changes02:37
jaegerwell, you can restart a stopped container if you want to02:38
brian|lfsoh by the way zlib is broken02:39
brian|lfsit compiles but sudo and stuff are jacked up02:39
brian|lfsin my docker02:39
brian|lfsdo you just do docker pl -l to see the id of the stopped container02:40
jaegerdocker ps -a | grep Exited02:41
jaegerzlib builds fine for me02:46
jaegerand no problems with sudo, I use it for all the build tests (with fakeroot)02:46
brian|lfsit did for me also02:46
brian|lfsmaybe I just need to configure sudo then bit tired been lookingat my computer too long02:47
brian|lfsabout to order food02:47
jaegeralso, do you use custom CFLAGS?02:47
brian|lfshows chromium coming02:47
brian|lfsjust native and -j1602:47
jaeger[17072/25268] CXX obj/content/browser/browser/font_utils_linux.o02:47
jaegertry without -march=native sometime02:48
brian|lfsthats what I mean02:48
brian|lfsoh without02:48
brian|lfssee I need food02:48
jaeger-march=native looks good on paper but breaks things sometimes02:48
brian|lfshow many cores you compiling with02:49
jaegerjust 4 in the docker VM02:49
brian|lfsbetter then 102:50
brian|lfsI"m tired right now but be interesting to see if chromium works fine with a straight 3.302:51
brian|lfsbut then again we will know with yours soon02:51
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brian|lfscould zlib mess it up?02:52
jaegerpossibly02:52
brian|lfsmaybe they used a newer version when they built it02:52
brian|lfsdid you look at my strace02:53
jaegerI glanced at it but it doesn't mean much to me02:53
brian|lfssame here02:53
jaegersometimes problems are easy to spot in a trace, sometimes not02:53
brian|lfsdid see on google about changing ulimites02:53
brian|lfsulimits didn't seem to make a difference02:54
brian|lfswonder if they have a frontend for docker02:55
brian|lfsit could be a mess if you have several hundred containers02:56
jaegerunrelated to crux, I've used docker to build centos RPMs for work recently, kinda handy03:01
abenzHi03:02
abenzcrux releases usually contain the latest LTS kernel no?03:03
abenzie if our dev team were to release crux today, it'd have 4.4.43 ?03:03
jaegeryes03:04
abenzI think by time 4.10 is stable, 4.9 will be made into LTS03:04
abenzwould the team jump on a major new branch so close to release03:04
abenz?03:04
jaegerIf it's stable enough. I do as much testing as I can before updating the kernel03:04
brian|lfsI think kernel is more user preference03:06
brian|lfson a distro like crux03:06
abenzcheers for all your efforts gentlemen03:06
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brian|lfsshould be or interesting or thought it would be been 3D printing geers all day03:07
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brian|lfsunfortunately I used ABS and the geers came off the plate near the end03:08
brian|lfsunfortunately I used ABS and the gears came off the plate near the end03:08
abenzbrian|lfs: your gadgets budget is ..03:10
abenzhigher than average :)03:10
brian|lfshey 3D printers are coming down in price big time03:11
marakuyou guys were discussing computer cases earlier right?03:13
marakui don't know the size of parts your 3d printer can print...03:13
brian|lfsdepends how big of a printer03:13
marakubut you should try making your own case, that'd be pretty neat03:13
brian|lfswow I would need a huge printer03:14
brian|lfsor million parts that snap togeather03:14
marakuhttp://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/857-3D-Printed-PC-Case.html03:14
marakuif you're into transparency03:14
marakubut yeah, otherwise that'd be a ton of plastic to print03:14
brian|lfsya03:14
brian|lfsand then when you assmble crack03:15
abenzI wonder how far these printers would go in the future03:15
brian|lfsthey have ones that print food already03:15
marakui'm waiting for metal 3d printers to happen :)03:15
marakuconsumer edition ones at least03:16
abenzwould one, for example, be able to buy an alternator for his car, and have the manufacturer send him a 3D model, where he can print it at his "friendly local printshop"03:16
maraku'have the manufacturer send him a 3d model' haha03:16
brian|lfsthis is what I got my friend for xmas http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-Upgraded-Full-Quality-High-Precision-Reprap-Prusa-i3-DIY-3D-Printers-/222348378517?hash=item33c4ff0195:g:KyoAAOSwJ7RYVJDu03:16
abenzI meant that kind of complex machinery being printed03:17
abenznot just solid/simple objects03:17
brian|lfsor very similar03:17
brian|lfsbut for $200 it does good size prints 200 x 200 x 180 mm03:18
marakuthat would be pretty cool abenz (sorry for being obnoxious) :)03:18
abenz:)03:19
marakui wonder if there's tech to print without supports03:19
brian|lfsinteresting my skype is all white now jaeger was fine yesterday03:20
abenzbrian|lfs: I wonder if all this drama is caused by the dual-gpu gfx03:20
abenzbecause you sure seem to have more than the average03:20
brian|lfslol03:21
brian|lfsnah just spoiled from living alone03:21
brian|lfsbrb going to relog03:21
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brian|lfsjaeger, chromium finsih comping yet05:46
jaegeryeah, uploading it now05:47
jaegerhttp://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/crux/files/chromium%2356.0.2924.28-1.pkg.tar.xz05:47
brian|lfscool thanks05:52
brian|lfsdoes it open websites05:52
jaegerno idea05:53
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brian|lfsthanks for trying06:01
brian|lfsstill ahhhhh snap06:01
brian|lfsskype is a white screen now like  yours today06:01
brian|lfsso I su suspect it don't like the new zlib skype not sure06:01
brian|lfswhat switch am I missing jaeger think I hit the delete key one too many times ar p skypeforlinux_1.16.0.1_amd64.deb | \06:10
brian|lfs                tar -C $PKG -Jxf -06:10
jaegerthe part of the archive to extract06:11
jaegeryou can see what's there with 'ar t whatever.deb'06:11
jaegerit'll be data.tar.gz or data.tar.xz, something like that06:11
brian|lfsah ok looks like debian-binary06:15
brian|lfscontrol.tar.gz06:15
brian|lfsdata.tar.xz06:15
brian|lfs_gpgbuilder06:15
brian|lfsso just data.tar.xz right06:15
jaegeryep06:15
jaegerar p whatever.deb data.tar.xz06:15
brian|lfscool06:15
jaegerinstalled the package on my laptop, it crashes every page06:16
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brian|lfsso its not my system06:17
jaegerAt least not the chromium issue06:17
jaegerthe zlib thing is still weird06:17
brian|lfsyes it is weird but its working or I wouldn't be here06:17
brian|lfsok new skype version fixed the blank screen06:18
brian|lfsthey must of rebuilt it for the new zlib I'm guessing06:18
marakuwhy does pkgmk use bsdtar?06:18
brian|lfswhy noty06:19
brian|lfsnot06:19
marakutar supports XZ_OPT06:19
marakuso xz can do multicore compression06:19
marakureally useful for big packages like texlive06:19
brian|lfshow much time would it save a computer over a years time06:21
marakunot much if the user is patient (which i'm not)06:22
brian|lfsso does it give you ahh snap chromium when it crashes everything06:22
brian|lfsI'm not patient either06:24
brian|lfshence why I have 64 gb of ram and SSDs06:25
marakuyou use a tmpfs?06:25
brian|lfsyes]06:25
marakunice06:26
marakussd's in raid?06:26
marakuor is that too much06:26
marakuspeed to handle06:26
brian|lfsnah just my non SSDs06:26
brian|lfsI have my var and swap on one and my /boot/efi /boot and / on the other06:26
brian|lfsand /home on raid06:27
brian|lfsis there a setting to configure where docker images are stored06:27
marakudunno about docker06:28
marakubut why seperate /boot/efi and /boot06:28
brian|lfsits what all the docs say to do06:28
marakualso, for fun i tried the chromium package jaeger uploaded06:28
marakuand it works06:28
marakuwebsites work fine06:28
brian|lfsbecause efi needs a VFAT partition06:28
marakuoh06:28
marakui just have /boot as a vfat/efi partition06:29
brian|lfsok makes sense06:29
marakudo you have /boot as ext2 or something else like that06:29
brian|lfsyup ext206:30
marakui remember when i dual booted windows, the updates would delete my bootloader and kernel06:31
brian|lfssounds about right06:31
brian|lfsI just use windows for my 3D printer apps06:32
marakuthrough qemu or native?06:33
marakui have a cubify printer and its software only runs on windows & osx :(06:34
jaegermaraku: on 3.3 or 3.2?06:35
marakuthinking about making a reprap (the printer's pretty meh when it does work)06:35
brian|lfswell both cura and simplyfy3d run on linux but soudns like lot of hassle to get them running on crux06:35
jaeger(chromium)06:35
marakui'm on 3.2 jaeger06:35
brian|lfswhat version of zlib do yu have maraku06:35
brian|lfson 3.206:35
marakuwhen i want to try out bloatware, i usually use an archlinux/debian/ubuntu chroot06:36
marakuzlib 1.2.1106:36
brian|lfshmm so much for my theory06:36
brian|lfsdo limit -m maraku06:38
brian|lfswonder  how many your running06:38
brian|lfsulimit -m i mean06:38
brian|lfshmm mine says unlimited right now06:39
marakuulimit: -m: unknown option06:39
marakuwell when i used bash06:40
marakui got unlimited06:40
brian|lfsit wasn't unlimited yesturday it was 1000 for me06:40
marakunothing to do with /dev/{shm,pts}?06:41
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brian|lfsnot sure06:44
brian|lfsI only starting looking at it becasue of chromium06:44
marakuoh i meant maybe chromium doesn't run because /dev/shm isn't mounted06:46
marakuif you haven't checked that yet06:46
brian|lfsoh should be but checking06:46
brian|lfsits mounted06:47
marakumeh06:48
marakuwere you the only ones with chromium issues?06:48
marakuon 3.306:48
brian|lfsso far that we know of can't find anyone else that uses it06:49
marakuhuh06:49
brian|lfsat least in the CRUX community06:49
marakuwell i'll do a build in 3.3 chroot06:49
marakuand i'll tell ya if it doesn't work06:49
jaegerI don't even use it, just tested it because of this issue06:50
nwegood morning06:54
nwecan someone do a test for me..  what did you guys get when you running this ? openssl s_client -connect mail.sigwait.se:465 ?06:54
jaegerlooks like a startcom cert chain, doesn't seem to have errors06:56
jaegercan pastebin it if you like06:56
brian|lfsyay 256 bit06:57
nwejaeger: yes please that would be nice06:58
jaegerhttp://sprunge.us/DdQX06:59
nwethanks alot jaeger07:00
jaegerwelcome07:00
nwewhen I running it from OSX I get this :P Verify return code: 19 (self signed certificate in certificate chain)07:00
nwe=(07:01
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frinnstnwe: didnt startcom get a bunch of stuff revoked?07:50
frinnsthttps://security.googleblog.com/2016/10/distrusting-wosign-and-startcom.html07:52
frinnsthttps://blog.mozilla.org/security/2016/10/24/distrusting-new-wosign-and-startcom-certificates/07:52
nwebut my old startcom (startssl) that will expire soon are working.. but the new one doesnt work ^^07:55
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frinnstyeah they started blacklisting certs issued after a specific date08:34
frinnstSpecifically, Mozilla is taking the following actions:08:35
frinnst    Distrust certificates with a notBefore date after October 21, 2016 which chain up to the following affected roots. If additional back-dating is discovered (by any means) to circumvent this control, then Mozilla will immediately and permanently revoke trust in the affected roots.08:35
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SiFuh #include <beer.h>13:13
ryu0SiFuh: that include is always in darkf's source code. lol13:20
frinnstfinally had time to sit down with a customer issue for an hour.13:21
frinnstsolved a problem that the developers in Nepal have struggled with for 2 months13:21
frinnst#include <time.h>13:21
ryu0were they working on it remotely?13:21
frinnstits a website13:21
ryu0Oh.13:21
frinnstcertificates are a difficult thing for web developers13:22
ryu0wth. are they incompetent or something?13:22
frinnstvery yes13:22
frinnstactually, the code is pretty ok.13:22
ryu0i'm getting into web development, but i have a different background.13:22
frinnstyou will be their god13:22
ryu0rofl.13:22
frinnst99.999% of all web developers i've ever come across are fucking retarded monkeys13:22
ryu0why? cause they never learned anything else?13:23
frinnstyeah13:23
ryu0the only language i've taken seriously to date is C, and some other unix languages. i guess i have a similar problem but in a different context.13:23
ryu0still, i do have a better idea of how shit can go wrong.13:23
frinnstthey have 0 vision over how things are tied together13:24
ryu0so no knowledge of backend either?13:24
frinnstno13:24
ryu0aka, the web server.13:24
frinnst"this website will only work with apache"13:24
frinnstis shit you hear..13:25
ryu0buahaha.13:25
ryu0that's only true if they make extensive use of apache only features.13:25
frinnst(because .htaccess files doesnt work in nginx for example)13:25
frinnstchmod 777 ALL THE THINGS13:25
ryu0wth. that's unwise. the http server only needs read access.13:26
frinnstyeah but that makes it harder for the developer to edit files!!13:26
frinnstcant have that13:26
ryu0does it? you could just make them edit the files over SFTP or so with their account.13:26
ryu0only give read access to the http server.13:27
frinnstactually im being a bit mean. this developer im working with is pretty ok. even using git13:27
ryu0i don't get why anyone still uses authenticated ftp.13:27
ryu0seriously. it's insecure.13:27
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ryu0SFTP is a better replacement.13:27
frinnstftp with write access is horrible, yes13:27
ryu0not to mention encrypted.13:28
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SiFuh' frinnst> 99.999% of all web developers i've ever come across are fucking retarded monkeys ' Yes I agree13:28
ryu0FTP is a security risk for any website.13:28
ryu0unless it's anonymous RO.13:28
frinnstand authentication. public r/o is fine13:28
ryu0but, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of websites are hacked thanks to unencrypted authentication.13:29
frinnstmost stuff is just outdated wordpress crap i think13:29
frinnstnobody bothers to sniff ftp for credentials when the front door is wide open13:29
ryu0all the more reason to roll out a somewhat custom website.13:29
ryu0hell, a static website generator would be superior for many.13:30
frinnstyeah13:30
ryu0harder to exploit a site with static content.13:30
ryu0maybe web development attracts the more artistic types who tend to be technically inept.13:31
ryu0that might explain the divide.13:31
ryu0lol13:31
ryu0i've had to learn a mixture of system administration along with programming.13:31
frinnstI dont do any programming at all13:32
frinnstits pretty limiting but i've managed to work around it all my life :-)13:32
ryu0surely you at least write scripts?13:32
frinnstyeah sure, when needed13:32
frinnstbut its often not. someone has already done it better13:32
ryu0that's an act of programming, just not as advanced.13:33
SiFuhit is amazing how fast satellites move, and yet, I am still waiting for one to go over head...13:33
ryu0frinnst: i got into programming in part because i was tired of being limited by what others had already written.13:35
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frinnstyeah that's a good reason :-)13:35
frinnstSignature Algorithm: sha1WithRSAEncryption13:41
frinnstNot Before: Nov 22 11:49:51 2016 GMT13:41
frinnstI love how Vodafone still issued sha1 certs in november 201613:41
SiFuhhmm13:45
pedjahttp://astronaut.io (possibly NSFW)14:03
pedjaIt doesn't work in FF for me, for some reason.Chrome works fine.14:05
pedjahumans are strange/awesome species14:06
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frinnstseems to work for me14:15
frinnstbut wtf is it?14:15
frinnstits just a video, right?14:15
frinnstah, the brackground is missing in firefox?14:16
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pedjayt videos with the least views :)14:17
pedjaI have animated images disabled in FF, but it doesn't work even when I enable them.14:18
pedjauMatrix/uBlock seem to break it somehow14:19
pedjato be fair, the author did say in the HN thread that it's not production ready yet :)14:25
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frinnstwill the stream result in a view on youtube?14:34
pedjaafaik, no14:48
pedjait shouldn't mess up your YT suggestions :)14:49
pedjawhich are, for me, combination of d'n'b videos, UK panel shows and Python/Pandas/data science talks14:52
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frinnstall my cookies are session-only14:59
frinnst:>14:59
cippptab only15:01
cipppi have :)15:02
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dlcusaGratified someone's working on this: http://themerkle.com/irish-teen-introduces-new-encryption-system-resistant-to-quantum-computers/16:30
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dlcusaHere's the lad's repo: https://github.com/narruc16:45
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frinnsthttp://security.stackexchange.com/questions/18197/why-shouldnt-we-roll-our-own#1819816:53
dlcusaYes, Schneier's Law is being applied, the verdict is likely imminent, I suspect.  A comment about this was posted on Schneier's blog on the 14th.17:02
dlcusaComment by PJ: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/01/friday_squid_bl_560.html?platform=hootsuite17:06
jaegerbrian|lfs: I downloaded a chromium nightly build 57.0.2985.0 which runs fine, for what that's worth17:08
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druid_droidthanks jaeger for iptables tip, I was learning virtual machines with qemu so I can test system, I saw that is a new better alternative to iptables,18:20
jaegerno problem18:26
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][_R_][... is there a way to update a package and its dependencies without updating everything?18:46
jaegerprt-get update $(prt-get quickdep <package>)18:51
][_R_][TY18:53
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kevin7Hi all19:24
crash_hey19:25
tsaophello there19:25
kevin7Anyone playing games or working19:28
jaegerworking currently19:37
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frinnstenjoying the evening20:45
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pedjawatching Lucifer21:15
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druid_droidwow I'm having problems with diferent versions of python and their modules21:39
druid_droidat first I created a port that installed with python3, but now more modules apear, should I create more ports ? can this break my system ?21:39
druid_droidshould I name ports like feedparser3 so is diff from freedparser from python2 ?21:40
cipppmaybe better somename-python321:44
cipppto be easy to find21:44
onoderathere really need to be a good naming convention21:44
onoderaI've seen py3foo, foo-python3 foo-py321:45
onoderaanyways yeah you should porbably use a different name21:45
cippplucifer is fun, i watch 2-11 now :)21:45
druid_droidwhy not python3-somepackage ? so when listing we see all python stuff ordored ?21:46
cipppyes, better, fedora use the same, i just saw21:48
cippphttp://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/?q=python321:48
pedjai am (slowly) renaming all my python3 ports to py3-$name.22:01
pedjaand yes, there should be an 'official' naming convention :)22:04
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john_cephalopodapedja: python3 ports? Isn't using pip the state-of-the-art now?22:15
pedjafor venv, yes.for system-wide sw?Hell no :)22:15
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pedjaI tried that with python-3.5, aaaand...not a good idea[tm]22:18
pedjastarting with 3.6, I am doing it the proper way.22:19
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onoderaMan I hate using language specific pkg managers22:50
onoderanot system wide22:50
onoderaand now I need to learn dozen of different ones instead of just one22:50
druid_droid:D22:50
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