IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2017-03-10

rmullbrian|lfs: Could try pinging z3bra00:16
brian|lfsI think its down00:18
brian|lfsbecuase it don't dispaly in my browser even00:18
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mechaniputerToday a colleague of mine made some pretty dire predictions about the linux kernel becoming dependent on systemd. I don't think of that as even being a threat, but I thought this channel might have some thoughts to contribute.02:02
mechaniputerSo... thoughts?02:03
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vsteveis there some special trick to getting chromium to work other than running it as a user?  it panics when I load it up, i thought it had something to do with permissions but the error it gives me provides no clues02:13
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vstevedisregard, standard issue non-root permission issue02:44
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dlcusamechaniputer, I suppose it's possible, but I can't see Linus being happy about it at all.  If it does happen, there still BSD variants.  No one is likely to fork Linux.04:15
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mechaniputerdlcusa: I agree, a fork of linux is quite unlikely. I'm a GPL fan though, so it would be a sad day for me. I'd hope to see a deblobbed BSD kernel become available at least. But as long as Linus is in charge, I think it's unlikely for us to have this problem.05:08
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: ddrescue: add README about a possible security risk, and how to migrate that risk by writing zeros to the unfinished parts of the clone05:13
cruxbot[contrib.git/3.3]: wxpython: fix for newer gstreamer05:13
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xeirrrHi, is there an way to find packages with old C++ ABI then rebuild those? This is necessay for 3.2 -> 3.3 users.08:08
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pedjamechaniputer, dependent on systemd how?for what?13:08
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pedjaheh.vkquake segfaults with nvidia binary drivers, unless I start it using strace or gdb, then it segfaults on exit.15:01
pedjabut when it runs, it runs great, I am pretty impressed with Vulkan performance.15:07
rmullDoes anyone have any experience crimping RJ45 connectors onto flat CAT6 cable? I bought some flat cable because it seemed intriguing but the connectors I have aren't working (one is for CAT5 stranded, the other for CAT6 solid, so it's not an exact match)15:21
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john_cephalopodaI don't understand some stuff in prt-get. What exactly is "install" used for?15:34
frinnstwhat do you mean?15:43
frinnstit installs a port15:43
frinnstunlike "depinst" it does not pull dependencies15:44
john_cephalopodaI don't really get why it exists.15:44
john_cephalopodaI don't know a situation where I don't want to have the deps installed.15:44
john_cephalopodaBecause without the deps, it doesn't build.15:45
just_funmpv compiles without docutils15:45
just_funbut without mans15:45
john_cephalopodajust_fun: Then that should be in the optional dependency list.15:45
just_fundoes prt-get install build something if is already built?15:47
frinnstI use it loads of times15:49
frinnstwhen I quickly want to test/install something but not pull a shitload of deps that i know nothing about15:50
john_cephalopodafrinnst: Then the packager hasn't listed the deps properly.15:51
frinnstthats not always the case15:51
pedjahow do you install optional dependency? depinst won't do that, install would.15:52
frinnstcant think of an example right now though15:52
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john_cephalopodapedja: install does exactly what depinst does, except for looking up dependencies and installing them.15:53
pedjadepinst doesn't look at 'Nice to have'/Optional line, iirc15:53
john_cephalopodapedja: iirc, prt-get doesn't honor that line in general.15:54
pedjaso when I want to cherry pick the dependencies for a port, for whatever reason, I use install.15:55
john_cephalopodainstall and depinst are the same function, just that one gets passed the dependencies flag, which lets it execute a dependency check, but nothing else.15:55
frinnstthis is a stupid argument/debate :)15:55
john_cephalopodaKinda :D15:55
pedjathen use depinst only15:55
pedjathe fact that you can't find a use case for install doesn't mean it's useless15:56
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john_cephalopodaBut the fact that something exists doesn't mean it's useful ;)16:02
john_cephalopodaBut yea, it seems like people are using it, so it has some use :)16:03
john_cephalopodaI just wrote a depupd command :D16:07
john_cephalopodaprt-get depupd <package> updates the package and installs missing dependencies.16:07
john_cephalopodaDoesn't really work well yet, but good enough :รพ16:09
just_funIs there a command that rebuild all the packages depending on the updated/installed ones?16:14
just_funLike prt-get depinst X $(prt-get dependent X)16:15
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just_funIs anyone using proot to build packages?17:09
mechaniputerpedja: (regarding systemd thing) I guess the concern is that Red Hat is highly influential in the kernel and might try to push their tech on everyone, or try to make their project more central than it should be in order to have more control over the development of the OS overall. I'm not sure what dependencies between systemd and the kernel could be seen as constructive, but there's probably somethng.17:13
pedjaAndroid is, by far, the biggest 'user' of the kernel, and I don't think systemd can work on Bionic :)17:17
pedjabut, OTOH, Google is developing another smartphone OS, so17:19
pedjasystemd --> kernel dependency is one way, for now.But I still can't figure out what kernel functionality could depend on systemd.17:21
mechaniputerpedja: Plus, assuming something like that does happen, I expect that people like us can write something to make it work anyway.17:23
pedjait will get harder and harder to avoid systemd, if you want to use Linux desktop, imho17:27
pedjaif wayland, for some reason, makes dependency on logind mandatory, it's game over, pretty much17:28
mechaniputerpedja: Eh, I think not. Not game over at least. Everything can be patched.17:29
pedjaby whom?17:29
mechaniputerBy people who care. I'd give it a go.17:29
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pedjathis is a fork of logind
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mechaniputerpedja: Excellent! And from the GuixSD folks no less.17:40
pedjalast commit a year ago.consolekit2 is a little healthier.17:40
pedjamaintaining is much more challenging when upstream breaks stuff just because.17:41
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pedjaI don't particularly like the 'make Linux more like an appliance' push17:45
pedjawill it make Linux more 'popular' with the 'ordinary' users?Perhaps, but not likely.17:49
john_cephalopodawill it make Linux less 'popular' with the 'power users'? Perhaps, quite likely.17:50
john_cephalopodaThe best thing about Linux is the transparency. I approximately know what stuff is doing and where to look when something fails.17:51
pedjapeople usually say 'you don't need to know how the car works to drive it'.which is fine, until it breaks in the middle of nowhere :)17:52
john_cephalopodaI once tried to write an own distro-like thing, and it has helped me a lot in understanding Linux.17:54
pedjaI've read somewhere that one of the managers of the quite big company always hires Linux admins to wrangle Windows machines.17:56
john_cephalopodaI just imagined the conversation :D17:57
john_cephalopodaLinux Admin: "Um, are you sure this is Linux?" - Manager:"Yes, definitely" - LA:"So that's Linux with iceWM and a windows skin and not Windows ME?" - M:"Uh, yeah, exactly... Get to work!" :D17:57
pedja'competent Linux admin can get up to speed on Windows administration over the weekend'17:57
pedjahe has a mixed environment, and the Windows admins are useless for Linux side of things17:59
pedjaLinux admins, OTOH, can usually get the job done with Windows :)17:59
pedjathat doesn't mean that the Windows administration is trivial18:01
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pedjait means that the skill set is more transferable18:04
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chinarulezzzHi, Romster. Are you maintainer of pidgin?18:12
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chinarulezzzpidgin needs to be updated, 'cause it contains the vulnerability (CVE 2017-2640)18:15
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